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Unread 19 Sep 2015, 08:49   #101
ReligFree
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
I find it a bit shocking we have sent more hostiles at bf than fl have...with all their Xans when we dont have a flexible race strat! And when we have been hitting bows sporadically for most of 2nd half of the round. Think it says something about p3ng and fl
Agreed. It shows Faceless was targeted heavily and grounded a lot to defend, whilst P3ng have been relatively clean all round

Round is over. Congrats Black Flag. Legacy politics worked well for you and you dealt really well with incs we were able to put on you.
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Unread 19 Sep 2015, 10:19   #102
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Well we will see end of round wont we.
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Unread 19 Sep 2015, 11:54   #103
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
Yeah, in between the two active wars with p3ng, war with FL, block shenanigans, and two full weeks of HODORS lolwaving nelito, it's definitely been a quiet round! No incs here, no sirree.
well it only took 12 days! he was told after day 1 if he just let us land it would have been over sooner the 13th day was just to make him lose more sleep and to level a few structures for added effect!

in all fairness hitting nelito is the only thing that kept this round interesting so cheers for being defiant
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Unread 19 Sep 2015, 12:20   #104
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

You're welcome, glad my vendors were good for something!
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Unread 19 Sep 2015, 12:47   #105
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

It was funny that he had his own private support army building almost nothing but banshee for us and that BF would keep covering him and let others be free roids when he barely made T10.

but on the 12th day making that calc and seeing that it was going to be a painful land for both sides and letting airlines know to buckle up for a bumpy landing was a good feeling!
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Unread 19 Sep 2015, 13:39   #106
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by ReligFree View Post
Legacy politics worked well for you and you dealt really well with incs we were able to put on you.
Not so much legacy politics, we all remembered that FL will not honor EOR agreements (apart from p3ng ;p)

looking at "legacy" politics,
bows were allied to bf last round, not this round.
nd was in the ult block, not this round.
CT/BF goal was to prevent ult win... this round we took care of ult 1 on 1 so didn't deal with bf at all really until we tried to go ftw.

only thing that i would say is we tried to push ftw and chose to piss off fl first to gauge our chances.

What didn't work is coming to CT for help to hit BF while all out attacking us, yes we deserved the incs and you got a good boost that day but that is the day you lost the round.
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Unread 19 Sep 2015, 15:31   #107
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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What didn't work is coming to CT for help to hit BF while all out attacking us, yes we deserved the incs and you got a good boost that day but that is the day you lost the round.
Subjective. A few would say round was lost around September 5th when FL had a CF with BF. Seeing a bit how politics work I think round was lost August 7th, and not just for FL.
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Unread 20 Sep 2015, 09:30   #108
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post

only thing that i would say is we tried to push ftw and chose to piss off fl first to gauge our chances.

What didn't work is coming to CT for help to hit BF while all out attacking us, yes we deserved the incs and you got a good boost that day but that is the day you lost the round.
At some point in a fleet exchange, you gotta try to solve it if you dont want to attack the other side.
Alliances seems to take the wrong way very often, "yes we attacked you, or are attacking you, but we dont want to continue this "two crabs in a bucket" fight."
So asking for a cooporation while attacking the one you want to cooporate with is pretty common these days.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 06:15   #109
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

TBF CTs strat wouldn't have really helped FL in hitting us and p3n/FL strats didn't work that great together either. Our rather smallish valuelead combined with pretty much perfect race spread against them has made it pretty damn difficult to land us (not forgetting the effort our members put in DCing and covering the incs).

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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 06:55   #110
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Fl race distribution is pretty much the same as yours I think. The may be slightly more etd heavy but I don't think that plays against them one bit.

Thier back bone to war you without partners in crime is their issue. Plus a command riddled with nutty brazilians

Ct strat would have helped them out early in the round to reduce value prior to spec being needed by every xan in the uni.

For me the round had ended as early as when bf and fl were both bashing people together. It set the state for the round and it meant the person who didn't come off the most fency would win. Fl napped up to much and crashed even harder

Not taking anything away from bf win mind you. I think the ct ult war always made this a two horse race.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 08:27   #111
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Fl race distribution is pretty much the same as yours I think. The may be slightly more etd heavy but I don't think that plays against them one bit.

Thier back bone to war you without partners in crime is their issue. Plus a command riddled with nutty brazilians

Ct strat would have helped them out early in the round to reduce value prior to spec being needed by every xan in the uni.

For me the round had ended as early as when bf and fl were both bashing people together. It set the state for the round and it meant the person who didn't come off the most fency would win. Fl napped up to much and crashed even harder

Not taking anything away from bf win mind you. I think the ct ult war always made this a two horse race.
To be honest, if FL/p3ng had been able to hit BF, im sure it would be a 3 horse race now.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 10:18   #112
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

It's all our fault
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 11:18   #113
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

People need grow balls in PA.

Ct and P3n dont wanna win... then nothing to do.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 14:16   #114
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

You're acting as if no-one hit BF. p3n/FL/Ult etc had already tried a few times. You just wanted an overkill block.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 14:19   #115
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Yeah, like this one with the #1, #2, #4 and #7 allies trying to kill the #3 less than one week before round ends
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 14:25   #116
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Yeah, like this one with the #1, #2, #4 and #7 allies trying to kill the #3 less than one week before round ends
That's only after FL messed up on their politics and cancelled deals with their "friends". They could've easily avoided that.

And only BF/p3n are coordinating on FL. Others are probably random.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 14:29   #117
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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That's only after FL messed up on their politics and cancelled deals with their "friends". They could've easily avoided that.
They commited a huge mistake trying to form a block to stop BF from running easily with the win. I hope people learn to never to that again.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 15:15   #118
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

The stats are at fault for all of this I hope you realise. It became so frustrating trying to land anyone that I, as have most others given up post tick 500
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 19:21   #119
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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That's only after FL messed up on their politics and cancelled deals with their "friends". They could've easily avoided that.

And only BF/p3n are coordinating on FL. Others are probably random.
Well, we didnt canceled deal with "friends", we canceled deal with a ally who trapped us.

We was waiting for help to attck BF for more then 5 days, and Ct/P3n refused to help....
Our plan was wait for help, because if they wanna win they will need to put BF down.

After atlest 5 days waiting, P3n came for us asking to hit BF, munkee asked me to find more people to hit and he will do the sheet.
We cordinated the attack, P3n claimed targets on sheet but instead of attck BF, they open raid on Bows and HR without notice anyone.

He just tryed to send us on BF, when he was attcking more easy targets.

At this point we broked the Nap with P3n, after they trapped us.

The fun is Munkee told everyone they didint hit bf because they cant land, because of Strat... and he also just told here Faceless strat is the same as Black Flag strat.

So how can p3n attck Faceless last 2 days?

All that lies to try end t2 ally?

Ct suporting Bf is something we all know will hapen... but p3n doing all that just to end T2 is something i cant understand.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 19:31   #120
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

I actually see your logic there Raul so well done. Bf have a lot more etds though with lancers. If they weren't cloaked wouldn't have been such an issue (another tia fail)
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 19:33   #121
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Like CT said before, they really didn't deal with us that much this round, they didn't really support us, but weren't against us either.

The biggest difference when comparing BF and FL is in def efficiency, not that much in strat, racespread or fleet composition. Just look at roids lost in the round per alliance to see a huge difference. Inc numbers can't be that far apart to explain it.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 19:48   #122
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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You're acting as if no-one hit BF. p3n/FL/Ult etc had already tried a few times. You just wanted an overkill block.
BF are good, but if your roid loss is 2 tiny blips on the Everest ascent, then you were not really hit, certainly not by a determined block of 3 top 5 alliances, counting Ultores.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 20:04   #123
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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BF are good, but if your roid loss is 2 tiny blips on the Everest ascent, then you were not really hit, certainly not by a determined block of 3 top 5 alliances, counting Ultores.
I said that Faceless' block did several attempts and it's not like no one tried. I didn't say (which you are implying) that we experienced 'lots of hostilities'.

And your graph could mean that we defended our roids efficiently. /me shrugs

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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 20:51   #124
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Well it would be interesting seeing FL incs compared to BFs.
I think they will be atleast 5-800 incs apart.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 21:19   #125
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

BF reduced their enemies to FR based allies and concentrated their def mainly against those. So yeah. They can defend FR allies more efficiently. Furthermore they had non-cooperating allies hit BF's enemies when those try to hit BF.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 21:41   #126
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

People talk like it's over. If faceless and p3n hit bf now it's still anyone's game? Am I missing something,
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 21:45   #127
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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BF are good, but if your roid loss is 2 tiny blips on the Everest ascent, then you were not really hit, certainly not by a determined block of 3 top 5 alliances, counting Ultores.
BF had hard incs (more then 150 flets/night) only 2 times this round... when faceless had it alot times.

BF def was very good anyway, but im realy happy qith Faceless defence this round too
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 22:31   #128
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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People talk like it's over. If faceless and p3n hit bf now it's still anyone's game? Am I missing something,
Well i guess they are missing the will to do it
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 23:09   #129
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

No lands = no will. The stats suck. That's it. All I can say is all etd bs would have been rapey this round.
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Unread 21 Sep 2015, 23:15   #130
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

FL had over 3800 incs, so its not realy a suprise they are getting roided. t
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 00:08   #131
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

This thread now appears to be about who deserved to win based on how many incs they had. You can only defend against the incs that are there!
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 00:40   #132
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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This thread now appears to be about who deserved to win based on how many incs they had. You can only defend against the incs that are there!
This thread now is about big alliances with big objectives and small alliances with small objetives.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 02:01   #133
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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No lands = no will. The stats suck. That's it. All I can say is all etd bs would have been rapey this round.


Everyone had a choice, we were all presented the same stats. Easy to complain afterwards if you don't make the most of it.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 05:07   #134
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

This round is so pathetic that no one minds to crash 4.6mi in a green calc (to def) to steal 600 roids. Since I started playing in r50 this is the only time I see an ally going for #1 with no fear at all of being hit and having the first place at stake.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 06:31   #135
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by Kez View Post
Everyone had a choice, we were all presented the same stats. Easy to complain afterwards if you don't make the most of it.
It was easy to see pre round. Just some failtards who picked these stats have all the power. I hope they enjoyed wasting all of our time.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 11:31   #136
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Everyone plays with the same stats. This fact, at least, has been true for 63 rounds. Pick a strategy that fits with your objectives, and consider how the rest of the universe will play for the next seven weeks. Nobody forced you to go pure Terran DE, you did so for your own reasons, and as long as those reasons have been fulfilled you've got sod all to complain about.

It's just so odd to see people who've played a decent round whining so much that the entire round was a waste of time. FL's defence has been solid this round, so has ours, it's hard to say who would have won if inc numbers were different because they weren't.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 12:39   #137
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

lol solid
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 12:51   #138
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

I didn't mind not being able to land etd's and xan's. It's when I cant land cats with half your value that it really starts to get my goat.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 13:57   #139
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Cats are always a bitch to land, thanks to appoco loving emp and upping their effs round after round.

Whining about stats when you pick a strat that has no versatility at all and zero chances to fake efficiently? Come on... Admit your failure and stop blaming others. if you can't land, you've done something wrong, not the stats. if you can't def, you've done something wrong, not the stats. if you've had a sukisuki faiv dolla round, you've done something wrong, not the stats. Stats are the same for everyone and even if they are boring tia stats, some seem to manage to land perfectly fine and some seem to be only able to complain. P3n is sitting nicely in top3 atm... I wouldn't take that as a bad round...
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 14:04   #140
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

I've been able to fake efficiently thanks. I cov opped fi and co pods. We have defended well enough for an ally that's chilled.

The stats are just a big part of how shocking the round has been and politics.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 14:23   #141
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

so... you can attack just fine and def just fine and still complain that the stats suck? Yes, we all know they're boring Tia stats and defensive as fck as usual. And what comes to politics, you were a big part of making those politics happen the way they did...
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 15:25   #142
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
I didn't mind not being able to land etd's and xan's. It's when I cant land cats with half your value that it really starts to get my goat.
Well our caths were NAPed to all FR tags due to, as you said, bad stats or race spread if you like. And seeing that p3ng was focusing on BowS, we had a lot of anti DE, and therefor were able to handle p3ngs before ND joined in and our members got bored.
The issue is clearly that if alliances can go most of the round without being put under pressure with these stats, it makes them harder to land in the end.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 16:23   #143
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Another round of alliances with the ability to win, choosing not to, and instead hitting the only contender going for it, well done P3ng and CT . How many c**ks did *Clouds have to suck to get that support I wonder.
Regardless of what CT may say, their decision to continue hitting FL previously, directly assisted BF.
I'm surprised about P3ng, I had expected them to have a little more ambition when it became clear they may have a shot at #1, it's not like they have planet ranks to aim for, so what's the aim? Finishing 2nd? Nice goals.

Sadly it's too late in the round to make a difference now, BF with their value and score lead are just too far away now.

BF win again due to keeping hold of the right, unambitious, friends. And this comment is not intended to take away the achievement from BF, their politics were obviously correct, as they have won. It's the politics of the previously mentioned 'unambitious' alliances which are just an absolute failure.

*BF HC
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 16:35   #144
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

I don't run politics anymore, so less spam please.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 19:20   #145
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by Knight View Post
Another round of alliances with the ability to win, choosing not to, and instead hitting the only contender going for it, well done P3ng and CT . How many c**ks did *Clouds have to suck to get that support I wonder.
Regardless of what CT may say, their decision to continue hitting FL previously, directly assisted BF.
LOL

CT/Ult hit each other all round.
CT stop and hit FL for a couple of nights.
FL respond by hitting CT.
CT/FL discuss nap but FL decide to wave CT whilst discussing.
CT rightly refuse to discuss.
FL decide to get block and hit BF
FL decide at last minute to hit P3n.

Did I miss anything?

(This would be a four ally race with FL as favourites had they made better choices)
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 19:33   #146
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
LOL

CT/Ult hit each other all round.
CT stop and hit FL for a couple of nights.
FL respond by hitting CT.
CT/FL discuss nap but FL decide to wave CT whilst discussing.
CT rightly refuse to discuss.
FL decide to get block and hit BF
FL decide at last minute to hit P3n.

Did I miss anything?

(This would be a four ally race with FL as favourites had they made better choices)
Did you not read the previous posts explaining how P3ng were the ones who, at the last minute, decided not to hit BF and go for random other targets instead? This left FL to hit an already fat valued BF solo, hence why FL hit p3ng instead since FL were not going to beat BF solo with the value difference.

Also, FL hitting CT while the discussions were in place, i guess this must be a matter of perception on either side, it would appear from GM's earlier post, that CT did not want to enter any agreement with FL because, at the time, FL were retaliating at CT for hitting them with BF. FL were not exactly going to stop hitting CT while they spend the next week deciding whether or not to grow a pair.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 19:46   #147
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
LOL

CT/Ult hit each other all round.
CT stop and hit FL for a couple of nights.
FL respond by hitting CT.
CT/FL discuss nap but FL decide to wave CT whilst discussing.
CT rightly refuse to discuss.
FL decide to get block and hit BF
FL decide at last minute to hit P3n.

Did I miss anything?

(This would be a four ally race with FL as favourites had they made better choices)
Poor CT that grounded for days waiting for a nap discussions while was unjustly hit by FL. Everything because of only a couple of night ptargeting FL.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 20:23   #148
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

There's some naive thinking in this thread.

Let's entertain the hypothetical that CT helped Faceless' block and hit Black Flag and that Black Flag were (possibly) penetrated. Faceless would've eventually turned on CT. I'm very certain that CT had thought through many scenarios and came to the conclusion that keeping Black Flag friendly was the best outcome for them.

It's no secret that Faceless / Ultores are allies, and if CT had turned on Black Flag for the sake of winning a single round, they probably would've isolated themselves in future rounds if Ultores decides to compete again. But of course, CT are incompetent for not joining an enemy block.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 20:54   #149
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
There's some naive thinking in this thread.

Let's entertain the hypothetical that CT helped Faceless' block and hit Black Flag and that Black Flag were (possibly) penetrated. Faceless would've eventually turned on CT. I'm very certain that CT had thought through many scenarios and came to the conclusion that keeping Black Flag friendly was the best outcome for them.

It's no secret that Faceless / Ultores are allies, and if CT had turned on Black Flag for the sake of winning a single round, they probably would've isolated themselves in future rounds if Ultores decides to compete again. But of course, CT are incompetent for not joining an enemy block.
Well in future rounds the table may be turned, CT might be trailing 1st but nobody willing to help them.
FL did well untill it came to gathering support to hit BF back.
BF did great by not getting hit by anyone for the whole 1177 ticks.
FL misplaced their trust in p3nguins to help them out, and perhaps shouldve been more hostile towards BF earlier so this thing didnt happend.
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Unread 22 Sep 2015, 21:27   #150
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Re: Political Debate - For the masses

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well in future rounds the table may be turned, CT might be trailing 1st but nobody willing to help them.
FL did well untill it came to gathering support to hit BF back.
BF did great by not getting hit by anyone for the whole 1177 ticks.
FL misplaced their trust in p3nguins to help them out, and perhaps shouldve been more hostile towards BF earlier so this thing didnt happend.
The question of which la la land BB lives in will be discussed forever.

BF have had their fair share of incoming. I'd like to point out the following fact though.

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