Round 14 Galaxy System

[Kal]

ok some redesign here:

first off if u go random u actually go random - so you will be in a galaxy with other randoms not buddy pack people.

so each gal will have 6 paid planets in it - either 2 packs of 3 or 6 randoms.

exiling people will require all ministers to agree - this means one pack cannot exile people from another pack without someone in the 2nd pack agreeing - at least until some free planets have upgraded.

you must be a paid planet to be a minister

exile cost formula may be redesigned.

one off free self exile will be removed, and might be replaced with a pay to exile system.

i'm thinking about some kind of buddy grouping system so people are with people of a similar activity. This is unfortantly hard to do. But lets assume u can arrange packs by activity then what i'd do is segment the packs into quarters and then place packs from the top quarter randonly with the 2nd from top and backs from the bottom quarter with the second from bottom quarter. This ensures variation of activity within the galaxy, but should also lead to no one being hugely dissatified.

The problem with grouping packs is that it is entirly dependant on what people do in the first 36 ticks which is far from a fair period to assess people over, so it may be best to stick with random pack distribution.

[Vencedor]

Uhm Kal, exactly how could exiling buddy packs together be a bad thing?
can't you just make the scripting take into account the fact that its three people and put them in a galaxy that isn't going to throw anything off ??

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Vencedor

Uhm Kal, exactly how could exiling buddy packs together be a bad thing?
can't you just make the scripting take into account the fact that its three people and put them in a galaxy that isn't going to throw anything off ??

its allways going to though - the people who pay at the start of the game are generally the most active - assuming each galaxy has 6 of thoose - adding another 3 to one and removing 3 from another will unbalence the galaxies to a large extent.

this round there are very few entirly uesless galaxies which we could move whole packs into, and next round the aim is to not have theese useless galaxies, hence there will be no where fair to put the pack (and it would destoy the gal the pack came from)

[Vencedor]

mmmmm .... i see what ur saying
Im stuffed for ideas, glad ur making the decisions not me

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

How long is 'long term'?

125k resources per day for how long? the rest of the round? because that's rediculous. you'd need like 10 finance centres per person you exiled just to return your income to its original level - without covering the costs of the finance centres themselves.

Granted, 20 exiles is unlikely, but 10 is quite possible throughout the course of a round - and that is HALF of your income just gone. I argue that these costs are astronomical, and i fear that you must have been either drunk or extremely tired when you thought up this suggestion.

I dont know about you, but i have attempted to help every new planet in my galaxy - including ones pre shuffle through the galaxy forum. Most of the time, these players simply do not respond (recently i have been mailing them), do not init any roids, do not log in (let alone hop on IRC) and whatnot. I challenge you to justify why a galaxy must suffer this burden of an effectively null planet (which could be occupied by a new player willing to learn - or at least log in), in addition to all planets loosing x amount of their income indefinately to remove them to C200 where they belong (untill they log in, at least).

I grant you, this doesnt happen in every case. However i think that people randomly exiling small planets without good cause doesnt tend to happen much - any half decent galaxy is willing to give a new player a chance to demonstrate that they are actually alive. failure to demonstrate this simple requirement means that such a player is unlikely to benefit from anything a galaxy has to offer - whether that is advice, resources, tutelage or friendship.

Really wakey, what's going on mate?

The actual figures arent really the important hence why before the figure of 5% is first stated it says FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE. You can use a lower figure of 4,3,2 or 1 percent if you so wished. And yes galaxies shouldnt be punished for inactives but they shouldnt be like my current galaxy where the GC and some of the ministers are LCH and whom seem to kick members of the galaxy on a whim just because they dont meet the stupidly high activity time that LCH demand (a figure that is apprently so hard to meet even the minister cant acheive it, as seen the other day when an exiled planet took offence to being exiled and got us raided and LCH refused to defend this one member because he hadnt been active enough). Galaxies who do this deserve to be punished.

Anyway I think its clear from my other posts that I'm strongly in favour of changing the auto removal of inactives from the game so you players wouldnt need to exile the inactives and as such you wouldnt be punished for removing such people. Its certainly not like i'm saying you should be punished for kicking people who have been inactive for 2 weeks just punished for kicking people with very little justification. it should help make everyone try that little bit harder to help others rather than be so selfish because in such a way your helping yourself by helping them, rather than the current system where your really rewarded for kicking anyone who doesnt show some prior experiance and a elite alliance members level of activity

[Rc mayhem]

Personnally I dont like the current system at all. Because it is so hard to attack the big galaxies, there are a number of gals that are been constantly bashed. Reduce the size of the galaxies by having more of them. Exiling less than 9 roiders should be removed to a safe distance imo

[Vencedor]

Originally Posted by wakey

The actual figures arent really the important hence why before the figure of 5% is first stated it says FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE. You can use a lower figure of 4,3,2 or 1 percent if you so wished. And yes galaxies shouldnt be punished for inactives but they shouldnt be like my current galaxy where the GC and some of the ministers are LCH and whom seem to kick members of the galaxy on a whim just because they dont meet the stupidly high activity time that LCH demand (a figure that is apprently so hard to meet even the minister cant acheive it, as seen the other day when an exiled planet took offence to being exiled and got us raided and LCH refused to defend this one member because he hadnt been active enough). Galaxies who do this deserve to be punished.

Anyway I think its clear from my other posts that I'm strongly in favour of changing the auto removal of inactives from the game so you players wouldnt need to exile the inactives and as such you wouldnt be punished for removing such people. Its certainly not like i'm saying you should be punished for kicking people who have been inactive for 2 weeks just punished for kicking people with very little justification. it should help make everyone try that little bit harder to help others rather than be so selfish because in such a way your helping yourself by helping them, rather than the current system where your really rewarded for kicking anyone who doesnt show some prior experiance and a elite alliance members level of activity

I like all this
But may I suggest that only the GC and Ministers are penetalized, as it is there decision
Like you said yourself Wakey, the GC seems to be kicking people that aren't active enough (against ur will I take it) and it wouldn't be fair for you to be punished TOO
I think your idea is very good, but only for the GC and ministers, and only for say 200ticks, then you could go for about 2% per person and a max of 10%
But make it that the everytime you exile someone, the percentage goes up and that percentage is set for 200 ticks, regardless of how long was left before.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Vencedor

I like all this
But may I suggest that only the GC and Ministers are penetalized, as it is there decision
Like you said yourself Wakey, the GC seems to be kicking people that aren't active enough (against ur will I take it) and it wouldn't be fair for you to be punished TOO
I think your idea is very good, but only for the GC and ministers, and only for say 200ticks, then you could go for about 2% per person and a max of 10%
But make it that the everytime you exile someone, the percentage goes up and that percentage is set for 200 ticks, regardless of how long was left before.

just punnishing the GC/minister isn't fair if it was the will of the whole gal though

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Vencedor

I like all this
But may I suggest that only the GC and Ministers are penetalized, as it is there decision
Like you said yourself Wakey, the GC seems to be kicking people that aren't active enough (against ur will I take it) and it wouldn't be fair for you to be punished TOO
I think your idea is very good, but only for the GC and ministers, and only for say 200ticks, then you could go for about 2% per person and a max of 10%
But make it that the everytime you exile someone, the percentage goes up and that percentage is set for 200 ticks, regardless of how long was left before.

I thought about only making it the GC and ministers but it just made me think that then it only putting the resonsability of helping the galaxy to the GC and ministers rather than something the galaxy is jointly responsable for. The galaxy members elect their GC and if he starts doing stuff that loses you resources then its your job to keep him in check. After all thats why we have the ability to change your vote. As for time limit as long as the time limit was long enough. Something like a 24 hours for example would just be too small and not enough of a deterant it would have to be atleast a week.

On the max amount, it has to be higher than 10%. !0% at 2% per exile is just 5 exiles. That means if you have 5 exiles already you get to exile people for nothing. Its simply allow too few exiles to be punished especially for alot of these galaxies who will exile large amounts of people for trivial reasons.. Thats why i was using a limit so high so as to prevent any large scale abuse (after all you get enough exiles to reach a high limit then your losing so much it hardly matters if you exile a few people for free)

i think you should be able to self exile as many times as you want, cause right now ive gone from crap galaxy to crap galaxy. and these guys wont exile me. you should like have to pay for it each time, and the more you exile yourself, the higher the price. at least then you could find a good galaxy to be in

[Painy]

Originally Posted by WeeMan411

i think you should be able to self exile as many times as you want, cause right now ive gone from crap galaxy to crap galaxy. and these guys wont exile me. you should like have to pay for it each time, and the more you exile yourself, the higher the price. at least then you could find a good galaxy to be in

The main problem with that i can think of is that people who start late and go random because they start late or somthing is people could exile them self over and over again until they get into the same gal as there friends and if lots of people did this then would be entire gals of people who know each other and would therefore could make things unfair

[Kal]

OK here is the current full list of changes:

In order for a galaxy to exile someone all ministers will need to agree with the GC, not just one minister
Only paid accounts will be able to be ministers, but all planets in a galaxy can vote for the GC
Members of buddy packs will not be able to self exile as long as the rest of their pack is still in a galaxy. So if someone exiles a member of a pack then the rest of the pack can then self exile as their pack has been broken.
The galaxy exile cost formula will be revised so it takes into account whether someone is in a buddy pack, it will be more expensive to exile theese people.
Self exile will no longer be free, but will be relaitvly cheap for the first time, but the cost will rise with each further self exile (yes you will be able to self exile more than once).
Only the paid accounts will be used to find the average score for the galaxy which determines who the Minister of Development can donate resources to.


Buddy packs with only 1 member will be deleted.
The shuffle will now allow packs of 2 as well as packs of 3. It will be either 3 packs of 2 or 2 packs of 3, with left overs being hanled as followed:
1 3 left over --> gal with the 3 + 3 randoms
1 2 and 1 free left --> gal with 3 and 2 and 1 random
2 2s left over --> 1 gal with 2 2s and 2 randoms
2 2s and 1 3 left --> 2 gals one with 3 and 3 randoms, 1 with 2 2s and 2 randoms.
This gives all galaxies 6 paid planets by this stage.
Then paid randoms shuffled in randomly but equally accross all galaxies.
free planets with less than 50 roids will be sent to c200 unless they signed up in the last 24 ticks.
the remaining free randoms will be shuffled into the galaxies in order of score and will be distributed randomly
Clusters will be formed in the same way they were this round

[wakey]

Only the paid accounts will be used to find the average score for the galaxy which determines who the Minister of Development can donate resources to.

As I said on IRC I dont like that idea completely. I see what your doing with the idea, your making it so theres less incentive to exile people who are small and thus drag the average down reducing the people you can donate to BUT you go to far imho. Your basically gone from saying "exile them" to "leave them but you dont need to put any effort in with them". Rather than remove them completly from the avg score perhaps they should just account for less something like

( SUM(Paid_Planets) + (SUM(Free_Planets)*0.5) )/Planets

if my sums are right (which knowing me they arent ) this would see the free planets score only being worth half its value in the avg score calc. You would still need to help build these planets up but they wouldnt have such an impact

[Kal]

Originally Posted by wakey

As I said on IRC I dont like that idea completely. I see what your doing with the idea, your making it so theres less incentive to exile people who are small and thus drag the average down reducing the people you can donate to BUT you go to far imho. Your basically gone from saying "exile them" to "leave them but you dont need to put any effort in with them". Rather than remove them completly from the avg score perhaps they should just account for less something like

( SUM(Paid_Planets) + (SUM(Free_Planets)*0.5) )/Planets

if my sums are right (which knowing me they arent ) this would see the free planets score only being worth half its value in the avg score calc. You would still need to help build these planets up but they wouldnt have such an impact

not a bad idea wakey

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Kal

Only paid accounts will be able to be ministers, but all planets in a galaxy can vote for the GC
Members of buddy packs will not be able to self exile as long as the rest of their pack is still in a galaxy. So if someone exiles a member of a pack then the rest of the pack can then self exile as their pack has been broken.

people on irc don't like this, as they want a system thats the same for all, so instead of preventing self exile entirly it should just be more expensive for all

also some extra things:
After the shuffle on preferences it will list the coords and alliance nick of the members of your pack
when self exiling you will have to tick a confirmation box as well as typing in your password

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Kal

Members of buddy packs will not be able to self exile as long as the rest of their pack is still in a galaxy. So if someone exiles a member of a pack then the rest of the pack can then self exile as their pack has been broken.
The galaxy exile cost formula will be revised so it takes into account whether someone is in a buddy pack, it will be more expensive to exile theese people.
Only the paid accounts will be used to find the average score for the galaxy which determines who the Minister of Development can donate resources to.

Why?
I know the majority of buddy packs will probably want to be together as they know and trust each other, but if one guy decides he doesn't like his buddies but is a big planet, they might not want to exile him, and he won't be self exiled. I know that some people have self exiled accidently thinking they weren't in their buddypack etc, but to be fair that's their fault. Maybe a little box saying "do you really really want to exile?" or a warning that it'll break the pack, but I don't see why it should be blocked. The only other reason is to stop mass self exiling into a bigger galaxy. And stopping buddy pack members self exiling isn't going to stop them that long, as chances are they'll get one exiled then exile themselves.
Also, I don't see why someone who's in a buddypack should be more expensive to exile if they go inactive etc compared to a free account? If the pack in the galaxy are going to disagree, let them. They're going to try an exile each other before tick 100, no doubt, unless they find it's easier to cooperate than loose planets, but they're not going to go "oh no it costs 30% extra, let's not exile my arch nemesis after all :P"
I'm not sure why you're changing the averaging process to only include free accounts either. It might mean slightly more people can be donated to, but it's generally only the smallest planets that get donated to for a 'catchup boost' anyway.

(I like the other changes btw).

Originally Posted by Kal

Buddy packs with only 1 member will be deleted.
The shuffle will now allow packs of 2 as well as packs of 3. It will be either 3 packs of 2 or 2 packs of 3, with left overs being hanled as followed:
1 3 left over --> gal with the 3 + 3 randoms
1 2 and 1 free left --> gal with 3 and 2 and 1 random
2 2s left over --> 1 gal with 2 2s and 2 randoms
2 2s and 1 3 left --> 2 gals one with 3 and 3 randoms, 1 with 2 2s and 2 randoms.
This gives all galaxies 6 paid planets by this stage.
Then paid randoms shuffled in randomly but equally accross all galaxies.
free planets with less than 50 roids will be sent to c200 unless they signed up in the last 24 ticks.
the remaining free randoms will be shuffled into the galaxies in order of score and will be distributed randomly
Clusters will be formed in the same way they were this round

Seems well planned, and don't have too much of a problem with it. However, perhaps the galaxies could be a bit more equally balanced after this shuffle? The planets weren't *so* out of balance, but some galaxies were almost 2x the size of others iirc, and I thought the shuffling was meant to sort of even them out :-)

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Kal

people on irc don't like this, as they want a system thats the same for all, so instead of preventing self exile entirly it should just be more expensive for all

all people in a buddy pack? or all people in a galaxy? or all paid people? or?...

Originally Posted by Kal

also some extra things:
After the shuffle on preferences it will list the coords and alliance nick of the members of your pack
when self exiling you will have to tick a confirmation box as well as typing in your password

I assume the first is to stop people going "wait, my buddys aren't here". I offered another solution in my previous post about a warning with self exile. I think it has to have something added to it though, even though self exile will be more than a one off next round.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by wakey

As I said on IRC I dont like that idea completely. I see what your doing with the idea, your making it so theres less incentive to exile people who are small and thus drag the average down reducing the people you can donate to BUT you go to far imho. Your basically gone from saying "exile them" to "leave them but you dont need to put any effort in with them". Rather than remove them completly from the avg score perhaps they should just account for less something like

( SUM(Paid_Planets) + (SUM(Free_Planets)*0.5) )/Planets

if my sums are right (which knowing me they arent ) this would see the free planets score only being worth half its value in the avg score calc. You would still need to help build these planets up but they wouldnt have such an impact

I feel out of touch, but I've not seen anyone exiled to raise the average gal score so more people could be donated to since I started playing. Spys, irritating, inactive, etc, but not that! If you're that bothered, just take the average of the top 2/3 (rounded down) of the galaxy score. Free's can have as high / a higher score than paid planets in the early stages of the round, as some of us saw in the beta, and some paid planets are inactive. I doubt you'd gain too much overall.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

all people in a buddy pack? or all people in a galaxy? or all paid people? or?...

All people in general - self exile will be really quite expensive so should only be used for dire emergencies.
Similarly exiling should not be used to remove people of medium acitivty, but instead the really inactive or problem planets, so the exile costing will reflect theese aims

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

Seems well planned, and don't have too much of a problem with it. However, perhaps the galaxies could be a bit more equally balanced after this shuffle? The planets weren't *so* out of balance, but some galaxies were almost 2x the size of others iirc, and I thought the shuffling was meant to sort of even them out :-)

it was? i thought it was pretty even.

There will be variation in score between the paid planets due to variations in activity in the first 36 ticks, people have allready made it clear that paid people shouldn;t be sorted by score, so there isn;t much more that can be done is there?

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Kal

All people in general - self exile will be really quite expensive so should only be used for dire emergencies.
Similarly exiling should not be used to remove people of medium acitivty, but instead the really inactive or problem planets, so the exile costing will reflect theese aims

I think one free one *then* expensive exiles is a better option, so at least people have a chance of getting out of galaxies without sorting out ministers / resources early in the game.

[Gerbie]

I have two small notes:
1. If free accounts can not be made minister then that shows the minister who has a free account and who doesn't. (I do not claim that is a major problem though.)
2. Similarly: if you have a seperate system for buddy pack players then that will also show the Gc who is in the other buddypack.

[Gerbie]

Originally Posted by Kal

this round there are very few entirly uesless galaxies which we could move whole packs into, and next round the aim is to not have theese useless galaxies, hence there will be no where fair to put the pack (and it would destoy the gal the pack came from)

Are there any thoughts on how to achieve a universe without useless galaxies (except for making it harder for planets/buddy packs to exile)?

I can imagine for instance that GCs of a bottom 10% ranked galaxy would get an option to randomly exile the entire galaxy for free. This would then lead to the universe slowly getting bigger galaxies: this means the universe should start with more and smaller galaxies than now. Like one pack of 3 per galaxy or 2 packs of 2.

I would like an option for buddy packs to get a fresh signup added to their galaxy (thus in fact expanding the buddypack to 4) a while into the round. (Get your friends to play PA with you!)

[Kal]

the problem with only 1 pack of 3 per gal is it means that galaxies will only hav 4/5 paid people in them in total which I expect people won't be happy with.

The other option is using paid randoms to firstly padd all pack gals until they have 6 paid in and then form new galaxies with the randoms - but this means that some randoms will be treated differently than others which is perhaps not a good idea.

[Erinyes]

I think it would be a good idea to give everyone a free exile and then make them pay into the galaxy fund for future exiles. this way if you end up in a rubish galaxy that you dont want to be in the galaxy you leave gets something in return for you making them 1player down.

[Kal]

I like the idea of the exile cost for self-exile going into the galaxy fund rather than dissapearing

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Kal

I like the idea of the exile cost for self-exile going into the galaxy fund rather than dissapearing

Isn't that what used to happen?

[Gerbie]

Yes. New player comes along. Seems active. Gc makes him MoD. MoD clears fund. MoD exiles. Happens every round. :-)

Anyhow when looking at the current size of galaxies (and expect it to grow a bit more even) it seems like 4 priv/paid players could be more than enough (like 2 packs of 2 or 1 of pack of 3 + 1 paid random). That would mean ~50% more galaxies -> galaxies of 12 instead of ~17 (now).

[Kal]

OK here is the current full list of changes:

In order for a galaxy to exile someone all ministers will need to agree with the GC, not just one minister.
Only paid accounts will be able to be ministers, but all planets in a galaxy can vote for the GC.
Minsters can only be changed once every 24 ticks.
Self exile will no longer be free, but will be relaitvly cheap for the first time, but the cost will rise with each further self exile (yes you will be able to self exile more than once). The resources from self exile will go into the galaxy fund of the galaxy that the planet is exiling from
Only the paid accounts will be used to find the average score for the galaxy which determines who the Minister of Development can donate resources to.
The formula used to determine the maximum score of a planet that can receive donations from the galaxy fund will be determined by: ( SUM(Paid_Planets_score) + (SUM(Free_Planets_score)*0.5) )/Number_of_Planets
Exile and self exile costs are to be determined.

Buddy packs with only 1 member will be deleted.
The shuffle will now allow packs of 2 as well as packs of 3. It will be either 3 packs of 2 or 2 packs of 3, with left overs being hanled as followed:
1 3 left over --> gal with the 3 + 3 randoms
1 2 and 1 free left --> gal with 3 and 2 and 1 random
2 2s left over --> 1 gal with 2 2s and 2 randoms
2 2s and 1 3 left --> 2 gals one with 3 and 3 randoms, 1 with 2 2s and 2 randoms.
This gives all galaxies 6 paid planets by this stage.
Then paid randoms shuffled in randomly but equally accross all galaxies.
free planets with less than 50 roids will be sent to c200 unless they signed up in the last 24 ticks.
the remaining free randoms will be shuffled into the galaxies in order of score and will be distributed randomly
Clusters will be formed in the same way they were this round

[Loz]

Excellent. No problems except I don't like trhat all ministers have to agree - that can be very time consuming.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Loz

Excellent. No problems except I don't like trhat all ministers have to agree - that can be very time consuming.

its essential really to prevent exiling of people simply becuase a GC and his friend don;t like them - its to protect buddy packs from being broken up to easily.

[Loz]

Maybe then 2 ministers have to agree? Though it does mean that a dominant buddy pack can rule the gal.

[noah02]

I did mention this in another thread somewere but I think it would be an idea when GC is changing around ministers for there to be a 5 or 10 hour wait for the change as so the GC doesnt keep chopping and changing ministers to exile someone. Maybe not this excact idea but something along these lines just to stop the chop change to suit tactics.

[Clogg]

Well what I would really like to see are a fixed number of planets again in a gal. If a gal is full just add new galaxies, only 17 clusters like in this round is REALLY annoying and makes this game less fun. I must say I liked round 12 better, mainly because of how the universe was organised.

I would also like to see the 1 week not active = auto-exile. Really kept my gal fresh in round 11.

[Alessio]

When we had 5 player privates I know we put alot more effort in getting the new players active
now we just try to work togheter with the other buddypack and forget about the new players if they are not already putting alot of effort in the game..

I dont think the current system really promotes cooperation ingal
Now people manage to attack 1 planet at a time
and people often dont even attempt to cover it.. that should say enough

Alot of people also seem to go solo (or with a buddie) this round
Alot of people play without their gals..
they can do that this round so why not..
The gals they attack aín't united anyway and
ingal defence is way less organised as before

Also people are exiling without even careing about it

Galaxy's dont seem to be meaning alot this round..
At least not if u compare it to previous rounds

How the current gals are set up is just not working imo
The theorie is great ofcourse, growing gals and buddypacks,
not to mentioned the 20 gals thing, and all the little details that need to be worked out woohoo!
but where are the results of it? Did it do what people wanted it to do?
I dont see why it should be continued in round 14, or anyone even mentioning why




p.s. If it is because of all the paids this round, alot of people returned to PA from some other game at the beginning of the round, that had nothing to do with this galsystem

[aNgRyDuCk]

I REALLY don't like the idea of no cap to the amount of planets in a galaxy, I also believe that the ability to have up to 5 players in your buddy pack is important, or subsitute that idea with private galaxies again, when you do, people care more about their galaxy, as it is now, other than maybe the other 2 players in your buddy pack, no one really gives a damn about anyone but themselves. This current systems isn't promoting anything as far as loyalty or teamwork. Right now, new players get exiled without regard for potential, no one has time for a planet to wait around and develop, and we end up with galaxies that include 3-6 players who actually care about whats going on, and 15-20 planets who don't care, and thats not good for the game. One of the strenghts of this game used to be the community's, and liasons that were created starting at the galaxy level, alliances have even been created with the galaxy as it's birthplace. If you want to filter in new players, random planets, turn it around, let the majority of the galaxy be friends, people who want to play together, filter in your randoms from there and then cap that galaxy size. Give us the opportunity to play with 4 of our friends, or cap galaxy's to 10 planets and make it so 5 of them can be in one group. Pa is losing it's player base , and players lose interest when you got 25 planets and you can only count on 2-3 of the players in your galaxy, that just blows. (only my opinion ofcoarse)

[Floi]

Yes, I have to agree to the 2 posts above. The in gal communcation isnt good this round. there are too many ppl in the gal not communicating at all and the rest ... always 2 or 3 together against the rest - or at least not helping the rest

gals with 19/20 players have lots of allies in gal and so most of them are not allowed (or wanting) to help each other.

Often, if a gal has incs, u see 10 ppl online in the gal, but only 2 or 3 responding to ur help calls.

i would prefer to see the 5 priv + 5 random system again. u would have enough ppl to help each other and the new ones could be intgrated much easier

just my 2 cents

[Intruder]

Originally Posted by Floi

Yes, I have to agree to the 2 posts above. The in gal communcation isnt good this round. there are too many ppl in the gal not communicating at all and the rest ... always 2 or 3 together against the rest - or at least not helping the rest

gals with 19/20 players have lots of allies in gal and so most of them are not allowed (or wanting) to help each other.

Often, if a gal has incs, u see 10 ppl online in the gal, but only 2 or 3 responding to ur help calls.

i would prefer to see the 5 priv + 5 random system again. u would have enough ppl to help each other and the new ones could be intgrated much easier

just my 2 cents

Its true, happeing in many galaxies this rnd. Tho i dont think returning the 5x5 would be better idea, this thing about exile that Kal said would just ruin the chances to exile to a better gal if u end in a gal where people are no as active as you. That would mean just stop playing if u end up in a bad gal since the beggining

[Holyboy]

personally i'd prefer priv gal of 5 with NO randoms, or a small amount of randoms anyway, it's really annoying having the game turn from a game of skill to a game of how to fool the system or how lucky you are to end with good randoms.

Surely new players would find it more enjoyable to play with other new players than to get continuously bounced from one gal to another?

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Holyboy

Surely new players would find it more enjoyable to play with other new players than to get continuously bounced from one gal to another?

I'm sorry?
New players all lack one thing, experience. The whole point of a new player landing in a galaxy with experienced players is that the experienced players help the new players. A perfect example of this is a player who started an account a few days ago, and landed in a top 10 galaxy. Between the galaxy and support team, he has an ok grasp of the game and an alliance.

If you want to protect the new players, that involves having a free universe, and that just means that experienced players sign up as free players, attack their way to the top, and then upgrade at the best possible point.

If you want a private galaxy with 5 players, you'd need probably almost the same again in randoms, or random galaxies, which would have an unfair disadvantage.

[teknik]

all these comments about the galaxies not working together...well i dont think that is totally the gal system's fault, i think its half the political situation of the round, with landing 2 buddy packs together which are hostile so not defending each other and not creating a "good" galaxy environment. obviously hostile packs will always land together (this being a war game) but due to the block situation (although i am starting to lose track of who is teaming up with who against who atm) more hostiles have landed together than is perhaps healthy.

having looked at the proposed changes for next round, i like the look of them (especially making exiling harder/more expensive..we seem to live in societies which would rather give up on something than try and make it work..which is probably why divorce is rife...making people stick with what they have got rather than mass exiling sounds good to me).

however, based on my r12 and r13 experience (not thinking about what is proposed for r14) i would prefer 10 man galaxies again, with say for example 2 reserved slots (so after shuffle you have 8 man gals) and shuffle with buddy packs, so you have 5 buddy pack members (a 3 and a 2 pack) then 3 randoms(1 paid and 2 free, or whatever numbers fit best). then the 2 reserved slots are there only for new players joining the game after the shuffle, they cannot be exiled into..the players from the slots can be exiled but that only opens the slot for a new player to join. that creates an environment such that gals take an interest in their beginers and try and help them grow as much as they can, as those 2 extra players if trained up and nurtured will help the gals rank considerably. it seems experienced players think of new players as a "handicap" and this sytem creates the same handicap for every galaxy, so there is no advantage in just getting rid of your new players and hoping an experienced player takes his place from the exile frenzy.

the figures for the gal composition may be unrealistic, and if so i apologize...just ball park figures because i dont know how many 2 man/3 man/ paid random /unpaid random's etc there would be.

[princ]

Originally Posted by Kal

OK here is the current full list of changes:
Minsters can only be changed once every 24 ticks.

Why ? only makes it harder for a semi active galaxy to exile (have to wait for the GC+minsters to get online) if a buddy G + 1 random likes to exile the other buddy G they are able to do so EVEN if they have to wait.

Originally Posted by Kal

Self exile will no longer be free, but will be relaitvly cheap for the first time, but the cost will rise with each further self exile (yes you will be able to self exile more than once). The resources from self exile will go into the galaxy fund of the galaxy that the planet is exiling from

self exile = ppl will abuse it if they can exile more then 2-3 times, but if u realy like to have loads of exiles make the cost : 1. resources 2.resources + roids lost 3. resources + roid lost + resarch (random) 4. exile = Restet planet. then COST 1 agian ...

Originally Posted by Kal

Buddy packs with only 1 member will be deleted.
The shuffle will now allow packs of 2 as well as packs of 3. It will be either 3 packs of 2 or 2 packs of 3, with left overs being hanled as followed:

i think that sounds ok BUT

in some of ur treads u said that u where thinking about high score mixed with LOW score .... buddy packs , this will be A VERY bad idea imo .... makeing good BP play poor to get good 2 BP ect ect ect ( IF ur are going to do this NEVER let the comunity KNOW ;-) it will be abused )

glx princ

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

Bring back the 5 Buddy Buddy-pack!!!

[Appocomaster]

a justification would be nice, mr "unregistered"

[antheon]

Although GC's and Ministers shouldn't get "paid" for their positions, how about some sort of "tax-break" system for using their resources to help the galaxy especially with scans.

Maybe some sort of request system where a galaxy member requests a scan through the tool, then the request is approved by a minister who executes the scan, and upon sending the results back through the request system, the minister gets credited with a % of the scan cost.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by antheon

Although GC's and Ministers shouldn't get "paid" for their positions, how about some sort of "tax-break" system for using their resources to help the galaxy especially with scans.

Maybe some sort of request system where a galaxy member requests a scan through the tool, then the request is approved by a minister who executes the scan, and upon sending the results back through the request system, the minister gets credited with a % of the scan cost.

I like this idea, especially to help free planets. They have to ask gal members for scans, so a system where they could ask and the person gets rewarded with say 1/4 of the scan's cost for doing it would be cool. It wouldn't be that abusable, as they don't get resources back.
Of course, the only problem is..:
Say the system is you submit a request in the waves page.
It pops up on the Minister of xxx's politics page (and he gets some cool notification thing, or it shows up in his news or something). He looks, does the scan, and obviously can't get rewarded _then_.
so he pastes the scan into the little box and hits "reply" or "submit" or "give my gal mate this scan" or whatever, and then he gets the resources.
But what if he typed in any address? there'd have to be a scan check, not just for scan but for scan type. It'd have to take the scan ID and look up in the db if the scan type and target co-ords matched, I guess.
Is that sort of what you're saying?

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

But what if he typed in any address? there'd have to be a scan check, not just for scan but for scan type.

I would have just thought that there would be a place on the minister's politics (or waves even) page, which says 'x:y:z has requested a [type] scan of [x2:y2:z2] Scan

so, when the minister hits scan, the scan is completed and the person requesting it gets the scan delivered to their Waves page (just like an already completed scan is displayed now).


seems the easiest thing to do.

[teknik]

why does it have to be a minister? why not let the GC dedicate 2-3 scanners?

[Guran]

Originally Posted by Holyboy

personally i'd prefer priv gal of 5 with NO randoms, or a small amount of randoms anyway, it's really annoying having the game turn from a game of skill to a game of how to fool the system or how lucky you are to end with good randoms.

Surely new players would find it more enjoyable to play with other new players than to get continuously bounced from one gal to another?

I'm with you.

If I pay to play, I want to choose who I play with or atleast play with others who also have paid for their accounts. None of my galaxies have ever given random newbies a chance. Sorry but many of us cba to teach how to play the game. If they are small, they are out, period.

[jerome]

3man buddy packs, 3x3 buddy packs - as RANDOM as mathematically possible (we all know there've been a few 'funny' gals heh for the past few rounds ...) + 3 randoms and also 15man totally random gals.

Doesn't give much of a leeway to abuse eitherway, doesn't allow TOO much of an advantage by having good/bad randoms, allows people in gals to be able to focus their teaching abilities on only a certain few new guys rather than ****loads of whiney ass no-nothings.