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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 20:40   #1
dda
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Nancy Pelosi

Nancy Pelosi. Nancy f***ing Pelosi! Nancy Pelosi?

Saints preserve us!

Speaker of the house.

What's next, Hilary as President?

Doomed. Doomed!
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 20:51   #2
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Ne thing you know, women will be driving cars.

What a ****ing state.
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 20:56   #3
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Is she the first ever female speaker of the house or something?

If so, who really gives a shit?


What does a speaker of the house do anyway?
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 21:35   #4
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Exclamation Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
What does a speaker of the house do anyway?
Well, in the event of the deaths of the President and Vice President, the Speaker of the House gets the job. :/


I, for one, welcome our new Democratic overlords.
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 21:40   #5
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

She seems to have reacted rather well, promising to be bypartesanship. Which is remarkablt gracious given the false and incredibly appalling childish things which were said about her by the republicans during the election.
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 21:49   #6
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

If she and the democrats have balls, they would impeach Bush.






Not that it would happen, as they dont have balls at all.
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 22:29   #7
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
She seems to have reacted rather well, promising to be bypartesanship. Which is remarkablt gracious given the false and incredibly appalling childish things which were said about her by the republicans during the election.
I am aware of the childish things which were said. What are the false things which you refer to?

Nancy Pelosi has been on of the single most partisan individuals in American politics. Her offering, at this point, to be bi-partisan is almost as humorous as it is disingenuos.

Nancy Pelosi was very vocal in saying that Bush should be impeached. She trashed him at every opportunity to do so. Now she wants to work with him? Hardly.

Zhukov,

As to impeachment, an attempt on the part of the democrats to impeach could concede on a party-line vote in the house as it did for the Republicans with Clinton. However, just as with Clinton, there would be no chance of convicting him at trial in the Senate.

The Republicans lost a lot of credibility and created a lot of ill will with the ill-fated attempt to remove Clintn. Hopefully, the Democrats have learned and will not ruin their position.
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 22:49   #8
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

fight fire with fire.

When faced with one of the most radical administrations in America's history, Pelosi and the liberals should make no effort whatsoever to be bipartisan. There have been no attempts by the Bush/Hastert/Boehner crowd to reach across the aisle, and there should be no attempts by Pelosi to compromise what she knows is right for American in order to appease the higher ups.

About time.
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 22:51   #9
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Actually, weeks ago Pelosi stated openly that she would not investigate or seek impeachment for Bush Jr. She did not make any such promises for anyone else mind you, but since Rummy has just resigned, that should be enough.

Her main fault is that she is just too liberal for the majority of the United States. Howerver her 100 days plan seems reasonable, is a bit ambitious...

Quote:
When faced with one of the most radical administrations in America's history, Pelosi and the liberals should make no effort whatsoever to be bipartisan. There have been no attempts by the Bush/Hastert/Boehner crowd to reach across the aisle, and there should be no attempts by Pelosi to compromise what she knows is right for American in order to appease the higher ups.
Which is a great plan, assuming the Democrats don't want to have a President in 2008...
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 22:52   #10
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Why would there be no chance of convicting him? Mind you, Im not that into the american legal system. I really dont see what should be so difficult with it, as he is as obviously guilty as Saddam Hussain.
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 23:01   #11
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Why would there be no chance of convicting him? Mind you, Im not that into the american legal system. I really dont see what should be so difficult with it, as he is as obviously guilty as Saddam Hussain.
Since when did guilt play any role in prosecuting influential people?
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 23:06   #12
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

I forgot for a sec that USA is third world country of some sort

No, to be serious, there would be atleast political reasons of self interest for the democrats to impeach him.
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Unread 8 Nov 2006, 23:13   #13
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

If you'd all just done as you were told in the 1770's you wouldn't be worrying about all this now would you?

Having not seen a photo of the lady concearned I have to ask, is she as hot as Betty Boothroyd (sic)?
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 00:52   #14
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
there would be atleast political reasons of self interest for the democrats to impeach him.
The first thing to understand is that impeachment is merely making a charge against someone. It would be the equivilent to a complaint or an indictment against an ordinary citizen.

The second thing to understand is that the trial on the impeachent is held in the U. S. Senate.

The third thing to understand is that it takes a 2/3's majority to convict on an article of impeachment.

The fourth thing to understand is that 49% of the senate is still Republican.

The fifth thing to understand is that (while I haven't seen any actual recent polling data) that while only 40% or so of Americans currently approve of the job that Bush is doing probably 70+ percent would oppose impeaching him, much less convicting him.

The attempt would be doomed to failure. The attempt would make the Democrats look just like the vendictive, partisan boobs that the electorate thought the Republicans were which caused them to vote out so many Republicans yesterday.

Already, the feeling in the US is strongly against both parties. The Democrats did not win because they are loved. They won because the Republicans are hated. If a viable third party were to come along at this point in American history, it would be embraced by a large number of Americans.

The problem with people in power, liberal or democrat, is that they soon begin to think of themselves as above the rules set for ordinary citizens. After awhile the voters get angry and boot a bunch of office holders out. Those who go in think that it is because everyone loves them. They then forget those who put them into power and begin to think they must be a cut above to have been elevated to such a lofty position. They act accordingly until the voters get angry again and throw THEM out. And so it goes.

The media only makes things worse because turmoil and anger sell more papers, air time, whatever, than does harmony and progress.

Ah well. The presidential campaign starts tomorrow.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 01:01   #15
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
The problem with people in power, liberal or democrat, is that they soon begin to think of themselves as above the rules set for ordinary citizens.
Mr Freud will see you now.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 04:31   #16
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Nancy Pelosi. Nancy f***ing Pelosi! Nancy Pelosi?

Saints preserve us!

Speaker of the house.

What's next, Hilary as President?

Doomed. Doomed!

Someone seems to have been watching Fox News a little too much. What's so bad about her that doesn't counteract the troubles of the last Congress? She may be a little more liberal than the majority of elected Democrats, but Rick Santorum (a serious Presidential candidate pre-election defeat) was just as extreme as she is.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 04:44   #17
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
but Rick Santorum (a serious Presidential candidate pre-election defeat) was just as extreme as she is.
Just because she isnt as bad compared to someone who is worse doesnt make her good or appropriate for the position, does it?

tbh, i dont really know enough about american politics to comment really, except at the last presidential election i was mildly dissapointed that Wesley Clark didnt win the Democrat candiate for president thing; he came accross to me as actually being intelligent and competant: such a rarity among politicians...

Did americans just hate him or something?

Edit: got the name of the guy right :\
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 14:56   #18
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Wesley Clark is war criminal, why do you like him?
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 14:59   #19
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Wesley Clark is war criminal, why do you like him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Wesley Clark ... came accross to me as actually being intelligent and competant: such a rarity among politicians...

Besides, i dont recall him being charged, brought before the international court of justice (or any other similar counrt), convicted and sentenced for war crimes and/or crimes against humanity. As such, he is not a war criminal.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 15:05   #20
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Ofcourse he wasnt charged, his american.
Even though he publicly stated his aim was to target civilian structures (during the bombing of Serbia).
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 15:17   #21
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Ofcourse he wasnt charged, his american.
Even though he publicly stated his aim was to target civilian structures (during the bombing of Serbia).
Got some quotes?

Also, due to my ignorance, i had a quick look at the wikipedia article on The Laws of War; the most applicable section is copied below;

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Violations and applicability
Parties are bound by the laws of war to the extent that such compliance does not interfere with achieving legitimate military goals. For example, they are obliged to make every effort to avoid damaging people and property not involved in combat, but they are not guilty of a war crime if a bomb mistakenly hits a residential area.
By the same token, combatants that use protected people or property as shields or camouflage are guilty of violations of laws of war and are responsible for damage to those that should be protected.
Thus, it isnt necessarily a war crime on behalf of the attacker to deliberately target civilian buildings or infrastructure, provided that the enemy is using said infrastructure for the purposes of war; additionally the burden of protection for those civilians falls upon the side using the infrastructure.

So, really, those quotes will be important to make your argument.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 15:30   #22
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

"property involved in combat" is not the same as your "provided that the enemy is using said infrastructure for the purposes of war".

Clark said something along these lines after a week of bombing Serbia, on a press conferanse that was relayed on norwegian tv (prob also on bbc, cnn and most other networks):
We are out of military targets, so we will widen our target list. I remember it quite well, as I as puzzled by how openly he said it.
And the next thing you know, civilian targets and infrastructure got bombed.

It's not suprising that US resorted to terrorbombing to force a surrender, they did exactly the same against North-Vietnam for instance.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 15:47   #23
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
"property involved in combat" is not the same as your "provided that the enemy is using said infrastructure for the purposes of war".
Perhaps not, however the International Criminal Tribunual for the Former Yugoslavia's Report on alleged war crimes during NATO bombing recommended that no charges be made. Ofc, General Wesley Clark was the Supreme Commander of NATO at the time.

Go on, have a read.

I'll wait.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 16:34   #24
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Ofcourse he wasnt charged, his american.
I've read trough most of the report. Its the biggest pile of shit Ive seen for some time. The report is based on written information from NATO itself, and doesnt question this. From section V, Recommendations:
"It has tended to assume that the NATO and NATO countries’ press statements are generally reliable and that explanations have been honestly given."

If our civilian courts did the same, taking everything the questioned said for good fish, there would be no people in jail..

And the people behind this report (Is it the UN or is it NATO itself, one might wonder) does take it for good fish, even when they note that:

"The committee must note, however, that when the OTP requested NATO to answer specific questions about specific incidents, the NATO reply was couched in general terms and failed to address the specific incidents."

Did they then ask the specific people involved? Oh no:
"The committee has not spoken to those involved in directing or carrying out the bombing campaign."

Actually, the members of the comittee havent been on the ground at all.

I rest my case.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 16:51   #25
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermillion
Her main fault is that she is just too liberal for the majority of the United States. Howerver her 100 days plan seems reasonable, is a bit ambitious...

Which is a great plan, assuming the Democrats don't want to have a President in 2008...
Ambition is hardly something that detracts from a party's stature in the political arena.

The republicans ran really ****ing hard to the right for eight years and came away with the monopoly on every branch of government. Karl Rove's electoral strategy, combined with John Kerry's ineptitude at conveying any shred of 'electability' ended the days of centrist politics. Americans, as evidenced by the impending concession by George Allen leading to a Democratic senate, are just as tired with the conservative agenda as the rest of the world has been for quite awhile.

Pandering to the administration is hardly going to win over any moderate voters when moderate voters have, pretty clearly, voiced their support of the Democrats.
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 17:40   #26
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Exclamation Re: Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
I rest my case.
You haven't presented one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
Americans, as evidenced by the impending concession by George Allen leading to a Democratic senate, are just as tired with the conservative agenda as the rest of the world has been for quite awhile.

Pandering to the administration is hardly going to win over any moderate voters when moderate voters have, pretty clearly, voiced their support of the Democrats.
The Democrats won, especially the Senate, because they ran a lot of conservative candidates. Bob Casey, Jim Webb (former Navy Secretary under Reagan), etc. Their big attempt to replace a conservative Democrat (Lieberman) with a liberal (Lamont) was a failure.

If Democrats turn their backs on moderates now it will be a short reign (and there's a lot of Republicans hoping they do just that).
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Unread 9 Nov 2006, 17:43   #27
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Re: Nancy Pelosi

And they elected more liberal ones - Paul Hodes, Claire McGaskill, Tammy Duckworth, etc.

Turning their back on moderates and continuing to accept the definition of moderates as 'conservative-lites' are two different things.
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