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Unread 21 Feb 2010, 11:35   #1
Tiamat101
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Round 36

Has there been any thoughts as to what kind of round we are going to have for Round 36.

Do we Like this rounds set up with the 3 man Bp's. the small 6-7 man gals to start. Single targeting. Coded anti ally def.

Has anyone started number crunching for next round's stats. part of the reason that our stats are always so last minute is because we dont start in time.

So why dont we start here and now. Its less than 5 days from the end of the round. Would be nice to have a set of stats to beta once the round ends.

http://tinyurl.com/yfv6jzr

as just a an idea. I know everyone will Flame and i know i dont care but atleast it will start discussion about it.
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Unread 21 Feb 2010, 13:49   #2
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Re: Round 36

small BP's with small galaxys are pretty good.

Single targetting is awesome, same with coded anti-ally def.

So i'd simply just vote for JBG doing some more single targetted stats.
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Unread 21 Feb 2010, 14:21   #3
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Re: Round 36

I dont like the small BPs but im happy with it to increase the amount of gals.
coded anti-ally def was a minor thing, no oppinion either way.
HATE and DESPISE single targetting, however i wonder if we cant find a middle road as they seem popular, something like mostly single bit each race having a couple of 2 targetting ships that are less efficient than their single targetting equivilent.
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Unread 21 Feb 2010, 14:28   #4
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Re: Round 36

None of these things are finalised but we hope to finalise most things and have draft stats by the end of the week or so.
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Unread 21 Feb 2010, 18:43   #5
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Re: Round 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Has there been any thoughts as to what kind of round we are going to have for Round 36.

Do we Like this rounds set up with the 3 man Bp's. the small 6-7 man gals to start. Single targeting. Coded anti ally def.
The only prob with 3 man bp's is if the gal is so dead only the bp is active in irc (happened to me this round). It was impossible to get rid of people who were active but didn't participate in irc. The end result was a bad galaxy that improved only slightly by the end of the round. I saw the smaller galaxies as a good thing for solo or small alliances. I believe those folks were better off since single targeting made it easier to attack (although harder to defend). My experience, maybe not yours.

I actually loved defending only your alliance, however adding allies would be nice it's certainly not a requirement. It made collecting alliance intel so much faster (grin).

Quote:

Has anyone started number crunching for next round's stats. part of the reason that our stats are always so last minute is because we dont start in time.
Would be nice but never happens. Any alliance trying to plan strategy would love to get an idea of racial mix as soon as possible. JBG this is where you shine, go for it.

------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to hear what people thought of some of the other changes, minor and/or major.

1. in game scans
I think we used it twice. No one refreshed often enough in game to realize there was a request for a scan. Hence by the time a scanner knew the request was there it was too late. Typically you get the request in irc then go in game to fulfill the request. At that point you know there was another request no longer needed.

2. shorter startup time
coming out of protection at tic 24 was a shock after all these years. It meant attacks started before a n00b had a chance to decide if they liked the new game they just picked. I suspect but can't prove, it drove off quite a few new players who just didn't adjust fast enough to play the game. It also limited the time to join an alliance if you were new. Alas it takes time to convince someone you'll be an asset and if you don't, the new player dies so fast they throw in the towel and just walk away.

3. better in game attack screens
I'm sure smaller alliance like this, to be honest I'm not smart enough to figure it all out and never mastered multiple waves so I used our webbie.

4. improved def screens
It all blurs together but I don't remember the bcalc from the previous round but I love it.

5. improved bcalc
A. I must say I really like the changes here. I can now pull in the information for a calc much faster and avoid my usual typo's. Faster for def and easier to pick targets for attack.
B. Now if we could pull in the calc for the attacker or defender on both sides of the calc. The add my stuff is great I'd just like to do both without cut and paste. By planet coord could work.

I know there were a lot more but I'm in brain overflow after playing the round. I know I hope the round is shorter. I was always in favor of longer rounds but it seems with time I see interest wain so fast that it's almost a waste for most players. Only the truly hard core are still active by rounds end.

Strayed a bit from the original post but I had to say it somewhere and the original questions got me started, sorry.
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Unread 21 Feb 2010, 23:06   #6
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Re: Round 36

Well i do like the smaller galaxies, but i'd like to see 5 man bp come back, for the reasons stated above.

Heard alliance size would be cut down to 50 next round, anyway we can keep it at 60? otherwise i'll have to dissapoint alot of our members next round.

don't think noobs were put off by the shorter startup time this round.
We have had a fair few of new players and oldschool as well, and with some help from us, some have done quite well, and were not bothered by the short start up time.
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Unread 21 Feb 2010, 23:18   #7
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Re: Round 36

I am in favor of of 5 man private gals with 1 late start at tick 336. And those that go random can get into 7-9 man gals with 1 late start at tick 336.
So basicly you can be in a small handpicked gal with people that you chose, OR you can be in a bigger random gal. Since those that want to fortress will and there really isnt a fair way to stop them.

I would like to see JBG or who ever make us a set of stats that has non-single targeting, and good Ship class distributions. That's all i ask for.

I love the new Gov's but certainly that is something that is up to the PA team.

As for the new tools, the ingame scan request is a good idea but like Crantor said by the time a scanner notices it, it might be too late.

The new scan -> bcalc interface has gotten much easier and much more user freindly so keep that or make it better maybe have a way to store scans from ally's based on coords.

I personally LOVE the short startup time and i think new players do as well. Instead of having to wait 3 days to attack or do anything its only 24h. When I first started i almost quit because of that same reason, but who knows other people are different.

It would be nice to have an ingame ally/nap/hostile setting so that way the PA team can track it( for records), and so that allys have a setting that wont let them attack them in-game. It would cause less "opps sorry thought you were another ally" between hc's.
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Unread 22 Feb 2010, 00:20   #8
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Re: Round 36

3 player BPs really screwed my round. I made a lot of crappy decisions on my own, but landing in a gal with nothing but n00b cats with 500 roids made it pretty hard to get a good start.
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Unread 22 Feb 2010, 05:27   #9
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Re: Round 36

yeah, i wasn't a big fan of the 2+2 / 3+1 BP format myself. maybe 3+2 or 4+1 next round?
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Unread 22 Feb 2010, 06:53   #10
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Re: Round 36

It really is a bit of a catch 22 with the smaller galaxies because of how the shuffle works. Because the number of galaxies is inherently tied to the total number of buddy packs the only way to keep a large number of galaxies is to keep the buddy packs small. But at the same time with bp size of less then 4 you can absolutely get stuck unable to exile people which sucks. I suggest a middle ground, either decrease the number of minister votes to exile, or increase the bp size to 4.

As for single targeting, it was interesting, and while the stats had some aggravating imbalances in them overall they were fun in my opinion. I am neither for nor against single targeting, single targeting stats are easier to balance, and generally easier to attack with, but in other ways there are a lot less combo possibilities, and multiclass teamups are less useful, which is a bit disappointing.
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Unread 23 Feb 2010, 04:18   #11
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Re: Round 36

If the goal is to have more galaxies, then all we need are small galaxies, not small BPs. I would like to try 5 man private galaxies.
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Unread 23 Feb 2010, 04:26   #12
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Re: Round 36

alliance based private galaxies could be fun. i'd be opposed to the lolfence anybody gets a code private galaxies though.
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Unread 23 Feb 2010, 07:06   #13
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Re: Round 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowch View Post
If the goal is to have more galaxies, then all we need are small galaxies, not small BPs. I would like to try 5 man private galaxies.
I guess the problem is those ppl who would go priv would have been 2 or one and a half bp's tho; so u are actually reducing things there; it would require the gals to be detached from the BP system for it to even out, and afaik the whole shuffle system needs bp's so this ends out a big change.
Not that im against it at all, i just dont see it happening
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Unread 23 Feb 2010, 23:57   #14
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
it would require the gals to be detached from the BP system for it to even out, and afaik the whole shuffle system needs bp's so this ends out a big change.
I don't know anything about the coding, but if the system can get BPs together and Assign randoms to galaxies with those BPs, it shouldn't be hard for it to create some private galaxies and some completely random galaxies. It still only needs to recognize two classes of planets: BP planets and random planets.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 01:48   #15
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Re: Round 36

just finding the 50 man tag limit ennoying for ODDR, we started our own alliance to give our buddies a home, and give noobs a nice spot to play in.

now that after two rounds our core has grown to well over 50, (im looking to have to cut around 10-15 people next round, besides the obvious ones that wouldn't have been allowed back), altleast they could have asked our opinion on this.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 03:25   #16
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Re: Round 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowch View Post
I don't know anything about the coding, but if the system can get BPs together and Assign randoms to galaxies with those BPs, it shouldn't be hard for it to create some private galaxies and some completely random galaxies. It still only needs to recognize two classes of planets: BP planets and random planets.
Private galaxies have been tried several times in the past. The problem in the end has always been that it ends up lumping newbies together with few if any experienced players to help them. This has been decried as unfair and hard on newbies, it is hard enough in the current setup for them to succeed, and private galaxies pretty much doom them. One of the things that has been tried to compensate for this is by making private galaxies small relative to public galaxies, but then invariably some public galaxies take advantage of this and get enough good players in them to overwhelm the private galaxies. I could go on about the lots of different things that have been tried, but in the end the fact of the matter is the current system, while it has its problems, is the best compromise anyone has been able to come up with.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 06:49   #17
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
One of the things that has been tried to compensate for this is by making private galaxies small relative to public galaxies, but then invariably some public galaxies take advantage of this and get enough good players in them to overwhelm the private galaxies.

What round/s did this happen?
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 11:26   #18
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Re: Round 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Private galaxies have been tried several times in the past. The problem in the end has always been that it ends up lumping newbies together with few if any experienced players to help them. This has been decried as unfair and hard on newbies, it is hard enough in the current setup for them to succeed, and private galaxies pretty much doom them. One of the things that has been tried to compensate for this is by making private galaxies small relative to public galaxies, but then invariably some public galaxies take advantage of this and get enough good players in them to overwhelm the private galaxies. I could go on about the lots of different things that have been tried, but in the end the fact of the matter is the current system, while it has its problems, is the best compromise anyone has been able to come up with.
Yeah, er, when exactly did this happen?
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 12:22   #19
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Re: Round 36

Don't think it has happened. Monroe must be having some sort of scenario going on in his mind predicting how rounds might turn out and how the playerbase at large might feel about it.

Personally I am unconvinced that private vs larger random galaxies would work in the current planetarion climate, much due to the reasons stated by Monroe.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 14:19   #20
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Re: Round 36

atleast R6 had small (15 planet) private galaxies and 25 planet random galaxies (private galaxies could also choose to have 10 additional randoms, and the top private galaxies did exactly that)
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 14:46   #21
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Re: Round 36

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atleast R6 had small (15 planet) private galaxies and 25 planet random galaxies (private galaxies could also choose to have 10 additional randoms, and the top private galaxies did exactly that)
I cant think of any reason to say no to extra randoms on those terms!
Im sure this has been raised before but if public or random gals are bigger than their private counterparts they may be hit on the presumption they will be less organised, having more ppl only in theory compenates as there is a good chance a third or more of their planets will never be seen on IRC so making them in practical terms the same size as the priv gals.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 15:08   #22
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Re: Round 36

Back then the climate was a bit different though, and some gals were very willing to give up the additional 10 players in order to protect themselves against leakages of galstatus, the alliances in the gal etc.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 15:11   #23
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by berten View Post
atleast R6 had small (15 planet) private galaxies and 25 planet random galaxies (private galaxies could also choose to have 10 additional randoms, and the top private galaxies did exactly that)
Yeah, that's really not the same thing. The only risk involved there is co-ord leakage which is, to be honest, laughable to be concerned about these days.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 17:28   #24
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by berten View Post
atleast R6 had small (15 planet) private galaxies and 25 planet random galaxies (private galaxies could also choose to have 10 additional randoms, and the top private galaxies did exactly that)
Yeah r6... see I'm not totally crazy! I don't actually remember the extra ten being possible for private galaxies, but it certainly could be true. Either way the larger galaxy size of randoms allowed a couple of top random galaxies to overwhelm the smaller private galaxies. And given certain allies continuing ability to build fortress galaxies during a purely "random" round what would prevent them from continuing to do so if we did a mixed public/private system now?

The PA dev team has gone around and around about different ideas to try and allow private galaxies, and/or preventing "fortress" galaxies (I personally oppose preventing them) and no one has come up with an idea that would be balanced. If you guys have ideas certainly I for one am happy to continue to explore them, but don't be too surprised if it has either already been tried (like private galaxies) or already thought of and rejected.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 18:25   #25
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
just finding the 50 man tag limit ennoying for ODDR, we started our own alliance to give our buddies a home, and give noobs a nice spot to play in.

now that after two rounds our core has grown to well over 50, (im looking to have to cut around 10-15 people next round, besides the obvious ones that wouldn't have been allowed back), altleast they could have asked our opinion on this.
Monroe's post has overshadowed this a bit, but I think it's worth highlighting. Low tag limits mean there are fewer spots (not more alliances, unfortunately!), which in turn jacks up recruitment requirements which leads to the exclusion of newbies.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 18:32   #26
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Re: Round 36

obviously those people that are going to work on creating a fortress galaxy are going to do so. if r35 doesn't prove that point, i don't know what will (why with all the great preventative measures implemented by pateam!).

the only real alternative i can see is to allow it easier to create said galaxies (lets face it - this won't happen), or implement some pure random system without exiles so its luck of the draw (that everyone will whine about).

there really isn't a straightforward easy solution to any of this. maybe after the passport system gets implemented they can sort based on history, but even then the new/shit players will be exiled for better ones.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 18:49   #27
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Yeah r6... see I'm not totally crazy! I don't actually remember the extra ten being possible for private galaxies, but it certainly could be true. Either way the larger galaxy size of randoms allowed a couple of top random galaxies to overwhelm the smaller private galaxies. And given certain allies continuing ability to build fortress galaxies during a purely "random" round what would prevent them from continuing to do so if we did a mixed public/private system now?

The PA dev team has gone around and around about different ideas to try and allow private galaxies, and/or preventing "fortress" galaxies (I personally oppose preventing them) and no one has come up with an idea that would be balanced. If you guys have ideas certainly I for one am happy to continue to explore them, but don't be too surprised if it has either already been tried (like private galaxies) or already thought of and rejected.
Dude, it's so totally not the same thing. All that proved is 15 man private galaxies + 10 randoms on top beats 15 man private galaxies. ****ing hell simple addition could probably have proven that one. Rob's suggestion 15 rounds ago here is still the best approach in my opinion.


And yeah, pateam still haven't worked out that alliance creation is an organic process and a lower alliance member limit simply means less people in alliance tags. I mean ****ing seriously look at the alliances that are around now and/or were in the last few rounds. Nobody creates an alliance because the tag limit has dropped down to 50 or something else retarded. Nobody kicks their more active and organised members, ie those more likely to create a new alliance, when you drop the tag limit.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 20:24   #28
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Re: Round 36

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Rob's suggestion 15 rounds ago here is still the best approach in my opinion.
That idea is ok as long as it is explicitly allowed for those galaxies to still attack with tagged planets. Otherwise we get back into the same enforcement problem created by "support planets" before it was coded. You can hardcode no out-of-tag def, but you can't hardcode no joint raids.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 20:36   #29
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Re: Round 36

Any stats talk going on aswell?
I wonder if admins are already busy with that...
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 20:45   #30
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by Cowch View Post
That idea is ok as long as it is explicitly allowed for those galaxies to still attack with tagged planets. Otherwise we get back into the same enforcement problem created by "support planets" before it was coded. You can hardcode no out-of-tag def, but you can't hardcode no joint raids.
Dear god if we stop people attacking together we really might as well shut down the game and load up sim planet instead.

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Any stats talk going on aswell?
I wonder if admins are already busy with that...
I pmed appoco to offer to do them/help out the other day and no reply yet so I assume they have everything well under control!
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 21:02   #31
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Re: Round 36

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Dude, it's so totally not the same thing. All that proved is 15 man private galaxies + 10 randoms on top beats 15 man private galaxies. ****ing hell simple addition could probably have proven that one. Rob's suggestion 15 rounds ago here is still the best approach in my opinion.
Well I don't honestly recall the ability of privates to become public, so if I was wrong about that then yes you are correct. Rob's suggestion has it's own problems, namely it makes alliances a lot less powerful and potentially threatens to eliminate them and push us back to just having battle groups, something generally the PA team has been reluctant to do since allies are currently the heart of the game. Or the reverse could easily happen and private galaxies are again overwhelmed by public allies since they are significantly bigger then private galaxies. It's a tough call and I have yet to see any solution that I feel truly balances all the important factors here.

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And yeah, pateam still haven't worked out that alliance creation is an organic process and a lower alliance member limit simply means less people in alliance tags. I mean ****ing seriously look at the alliances that are around now and/or were in the last few rounds. Nobody creates an alliance because the tag limit has dropped down to 50 or something else retarded. Nobody kicks their more active and organized members, ie those more likely to create a new alliance, when you drop the tag limit.
No argument from me. I can't think of a single good reason to drop the ally limit to 50. I have consistently been a proponent of high or no caps at all. The reason we have caps now is because the game is so small, not because the caps in any way actually add any value to the game.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 21:06   #32
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Re: Round 36

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Dear god if we stop people attacking together we really might as well shut down the game and load up sim planet instead.
Right. I'm sure you understood this, but to be sure everyone does: I mean it must be ok for everyone in x:x to always attack with Blue Tuba, every night and be part of their irc tools/webby. I'm not interested in the scenario where multihunters are expected to keep track of who attacks with whom and how often.
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Unread 24 Feb 2010, 21:36   #33
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by Monroe
Rob's suggestion has it's own problems, namely it makes alliances a lot less powerful and potentially threatens to eliminate them and push us back to just having battle groups, something generally the PA team has been reluctant to do since allies are currently the heart of the game. Or the reverse could easily happen and private galaxies are again overwhelmed by public allies since they are significantly bigger then private galaxies. It's a tough call and I have yet to see any solution that I feel truly balances all the important factors here.
Basically, even at its worst, I think it would reintroduce the potential for fluidity in alliance politics that's been missing (by this I mean one private galaxy backstabbing another/an alliance it had a NAP with or something). It's highly unlikely, in my opinion, that the current dominating group wouldn't choose the "challenge" of private galaxies and I think that in that position they'd be more vulnerable.

And yes Cowch, if anyone argues with that being expressly allowed they really need to reconsider their priorities.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 01:02   #34
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Re: Round 36

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Basically, even at its worst, I think it would reintroduce the potential for fluidity in alliance politics that's been missing (by this I mean one private galaxy backstabbing another/an alliance it had a NAP with or something). It's highly unlikely, in my opinion, that the current dominating group wouldn't choose the "challenge" of private galaxies and I think that in that position they'd be more vulnerable.
I agree other then the part about them all choosing the private galaxy option. I think enough would be smart enough to go public and crush everyone else. Like I said in my last post, it might be doable, but I think it would be incredibly difficult to balance it in such a way that neither the private galaxy nor the public galaxy option was inherently a better option to win. One thing the active PA community has shown a consistent propensity to do is find the most optimal path and exploit it to the best of their abilities. I can't imagine they would not do the same in this instance.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 01:45   #35
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Re: Round 36

It's not a question of "being smart enough". Enough competent/motivated/antisocialolololoshutup people would go for private galaxies and there'd be enough of a mix to ensure a balanced universe.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 02:25   #36
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Re: Round 36

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It's not a question of "being smart enough". Enough competent/motivated/antisocialolololoshutup people would go for private galaxies and there'd be enough of a mix to ensure a balanced universe.
For one round? Sure no argument. For 3 or 4 rounds when people figure out that to win you need to be in a public galaxy? I seriously doubt any large number of players would if private galaxies were not clearly better then public. If private galaxies becomes clearly better, then the newbies get dumped by themselves, and the game becomes less friendly.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 10:56   #37
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Re: Round 36

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For one round? Sure no argument. For 3 or 4 rounds when people figure out that to win you need to be in a public galaxy? I seriously doubt any large number of players would if private galaxies were not clearly better then public. If private galaxies becomes clearly better, then the newbies get dumped by themselves, and the game becomes less friendly.
Or it could be roughly equitable.....

I mean seriously, if one isn't always and unquestionably better than the other there's clearly a point at which the two will be roughly balanced. Either way, why would we have to have it for more than one or two rounds?
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 11:13   #38
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Re: Round 36

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The PA dev team has gone around and around about different ideas to try and allow private galaxies, and/or preventing "fortress" galaxies (I personally oppose preventing them) and no one has come up with an idea that would be balanced. If you guys have ideas certainly I for one am happy to continue to explore them, but don't be too surprised if it has either already been tried (like private galaxies) or already thought of and rejected.
The reason the PA Dev team should be trying to prevent fortress galaxys, is that at the moment PA is meant to be random. I'm not against fortress galaxys or private galaxys in general, i just strongly oppose fortress galaxys in a random galaxy round.

PA has to stop playing to the middle ground, either make the galaxys properly random with no chance of fortress play.. or allow private galaxys in some form. Dont just pretend its random.

but i fail to see how private galaxys would work in PA? blocks and alliances already struggle to take down Asc/Apprime.. let alone if all the members were in fortress galaxys. Maybe if there was more competition in PA, then private galaxys would work.. but while theres only 1 top alliance its not possible.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 11:22   #39
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Re: Round 36

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The reason the PA Dev team should be trying to prevent fortress galaxys, is that at the moment PA is meant to be random. I'm not against fortress galaxys or private galaxys in general, i just strongly oppose fortress galaxys in a random galaxy round.

PA has to stop playing to the middle ground, either make the galaxys properly random with no chance of fortress play.. or allow private galaxys in some form. Dont just pretend its random.

but i fail to see how private galaxys would work in PA? blocks and alliances already struggle to take down Asc/Apprime.. let alone if all the members were in fortress galaxys. Maybe if there was more competition in PA, then private galaxys would work.. but while theres only 1 top alliance its not possible.
One assumes that private galaxies can't defend each other which rather dramatically alters things.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 12:14   #40
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Re: Round 36

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but i fail to see how private galaxys would work in PA? blocks and alliances already struggle to take down Asc/Apprime.. let alone if all the members were in fortress galaxys. Maybe if there was more competition in PA, then private galaxys would work.. but while theres only 1 top alliance its not possible.
if u are in a priv gal of say 6 ppl then u can only stop a maximum of 18 waves by defence; surely thats gonna stop priv gals being too strong. Assuming ofc that priv gals cant oog def which, with the current rules for no oog def if not allied, seems a reasonable assumption.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 12:26   #41
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Re: Round 36

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if u are in a priv gal of say 6 ppl then u can only stop a maximum of 18 waves by defence; surely thats gonna stop priv gals being too strong. Assuming ofc that priv gals cant oog def which, with the current rules for no oog def if not allied, seems a reasonable assumption.
Treat each private galaxy as a separate alliance tag in my opinion.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 13:04   #42
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Re: Round 36

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Treat each private galaxy as a separate alliance tag in my opinion.
If these gals were not allowed oog def then it could be an interesting round ,i think the priv gals would have to have at least 8 members to give them a chance though , we need more radical changes like this in the game rather than the normal stats change round to round , personally i think 8 planets in priv gals and 12 in random , no extra planets get into a priv gal unless someone is kicked then they can accept exiles (or not if they dont want them but 8 is the max they can have ) no late signups for random or priv , also change exiling from once every 3 ticks to max 4 per day at anytime , as proved this round it is impossible to prevent fortress gals so adding more limits wont work and if we do have a round of private gals then we may see old players returning to play with friends
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 13:49   #43
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
If these gals were not allowed oog def then it could be an interesting round ,i think the priv gals would have to have at least 8 members to give them a chance though , we need more radical changes like this in the game rather than the normal stats change round to round , personally i think 8 planets in priv gals and 12 in random , no extra planets get into a priv gal unless someone is kicked then they can accept exiles (or not if they dont want them but 8 is the max they can have ) no late signups for random or priv , also change exiling from once every 3 ticks to max 4 per day at anytime , as proved this round it is impossible to prevent fortress gals so adding more limits wont work and if we do have a round of private gals then we may see old players returning to play with friends
I'd probably raise the numbers on all of them. 10/11 man private gals and like 16/17 man random ones (main factor here being that I think 12 man random gals could miss out on having an active enough group of 3/4 people to make them work). All that said I do remember appoco saying it was difficult to recode without bps but it seems so basic to me that you'd surely be able to jury-rig a solution (randomly assigned bps to planets who select random for example). Difficult to predict what sort of overall numbers for each you'd end up with though so things could get a bit shitty potentially for random gals.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 16:22   #44
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Re: Round 36

It cant be that hard to code , they were able to reduce the bp size from 5 to 3 so surely they can increase it to whatever size the private gal limit is which keeps the bp code so it doesnt require a huge overhaul of the code
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 16:36   #45
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I'd probably raise the numbers on all of them. 10/11 man private gals and like 16/17 man random ones (main factor here being that I think 12 man random gals could miss out on having an active enough group of 3/4 people to make them work). All that said I do remember appoco saying it was difficult to recode without bps but it seems so basic to me that you'd surely be able to jury-rig a solution (randomly assigned bps to planets who select random for example). Difficult to predict what sort of overall numbers for each you'd end up with though so things could get a bit shitty potentially for random gals.
The shuffle is based on buddypacks, to do what you suggest would require a total rewrite of the shuffle code. How much work is this? I have no idea but it would be one of the main holdups.

You bring up another interesting point worth discussing, have the smaller galaxies sizes of this round been a success or not? What you are suggesting pushes back towards larger galaxy sizes (I agree it might make sense if no out of gal defense) is this the direction we should really go? Or should we try and keep galaxy sizes small? While there certainly have been some significant problems with smaller galaxy and bp sizes, I have rather enjoyed the fact that it is easier to raid galaxies.

On the topic of fortress galaxies, given that the only way to seriously limit them is to remove the exile system all together I don't see a way to prevent them that will be acceptable to the player base. Since with the current method they are currently equally available to everyone, at least the current system is fair. I don't believe going to private galaxies solves this if those galaxies are not allowed to be defended by allies as their effectiveness is significantly reduced. Unless a private galaxy is either very large or extremely active it will not be successful in defending itself from 60 or 70 player allies.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 16:51   #46
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Re: Round 36

I don't really see a reason to make private gals smaller than random gals, if those private gals are unable to receive oog def. If two alliances with 80-100 active planets decided to slam a private galaxy, I'd sure hate to have fewer planets than anyone else gets.

If private galaxies were smaller, people would create fortresses using the current system, and those galaxies would receive the benefit of being larger, and having oog def.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 17:00   #47
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Re: Round 36

Guys, trust me on this, most of the top players will go for the private gals and attempt to win anyways. You don't want to make them massively smaller than the random gals as then that'll be nigh on impossible but it's the challenge that most people in ascendancy/apprime are looking for at this time. For at least one round they'll risk it, so just don't make private gals too strong heh. Private gals will have a difficult time defending themselves yeah but they'll still be tough eggs to crack with 12 active planets with good value. Not to mention then can align themselves with other private gals or alliances in various ways.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 17:00   #48
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by Cowch View Post
I don't really see a reason to make private gals smaller than random gals, if those private gals are unable to receive oog def. If two alliances with 80-100 active planets decided to slam a private galaxy, I'd sure hate to have fewer planets than anyone else gets.
The problem is we really have no idea if alliances will be able to muster large numbers of active people; The first round with priv gals would probably have small allies as active ppl embrace priv gals for the novelty; with things evening out thereafter.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 17:25   #49
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Re: Round 36

I say let's try it. There can't possibly be a round worse than this one.
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Unread 25 Feb 2010, 17:34   #50
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Re: Round 36

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Originally Posted by Cowch View Post
I say let's try it. There can't possibly be a round worse than this one.
There was; it was r28, unfortunately it was followed by r29; only in r30 did things get interesting again.
I would definately be up for trying it.

[EDIT] Having thought about it a bit more, the chances are many of their current alliances would become BG's of galaxies with small alliance tags attached to provide services like scanners or cov-oppers. These BGs would all be in a position to overwhelm any priv galaxy which makes for a very offensive game regardless of stats, they could also go toe to toe with the 'real' allies or demolish them as a coalition of BGs if they are too threatening.
This would be very exciting but the point is that ballance would be really hard to achieve, dependent on an equilibrium of alliances/BGs if too many ppl go priv gals the alliances will be too weak and vice versa.
[EDIT AGAIN] Not that we ever have equilibrium, so why am i worried!
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Last edited by [B5]Londo; 25 Feb 2010 at 18:23.
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