NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

[aNgRyDuCk]

There have been repeated claims that the merger of Omen & Angels had nothing to do with trying to win; you claim it was simply a matter of revitalizing your membership and of creating something for the future.

The problem of course is that no-one outside of FO believes that for a minute.

You also claim that you don't care about who wins, as long as it isn't exi.

You have aproached ND about the possibility of ending our NAP to exi & all of us joining in together to stop the evil exi empire.

The problem with that is, if we do succeed in defeating exi, the likely winner of the round would of course be FO.

FO winning the round after the merge is a possibility that is unacceptable to us. We would rather continue to hit FO for the remainder of the round & let exi waltz to victory then accept the possibility of FO winning.

So here is our proposal:

We will agree to give immediate notification to exi that we will end our NAP.
At the end of which time we will commence on coordinated full scale hostilities towards exi.
You will agree that no matter what the outcome of the following wars is, you will on the last day of ticks remove enough people from the FO tag that you will finish below ND in the alliance rankings.

This gives you an opportunity to prove that the purpose of the merger wasn't to try to steal the win, it also gives you an opportunity to stop exi from winning the round handily.

If you are serious about the claims you have made regarding your merger, then we're sure these terms will be acceptable.

edited for spelling

[JonnyBGood]

I see. Possibly this could involve some sort of foot-shooting contest?









Oh no wait I see you're way ahead of me there!

[Barrow|Pony]

How could we, when our feet have been cut out from under us?

We're simply tired of taking the piss from people who want to control Planetarion's politics with underhanded blackmail. Enough is enough.

[NitinA]

It'd be intresting to see an alliance that has a history of doing "Threaten Both Sides FTW"-style politics agree to this sort of thing, only to fail to comply with the agreement in the end.

[cura]

This is our answer to Failing Omens stance in a meeting we had with them, where they rejected all possible deals we could offer them. The only thing they wanted to accept was us to break the 72 hour notification period with eXi and attack them straight away. NewDawn is an alliance that takes pride in it's honor towards players and alliances. We are not an alliance to break agreements, this post isn't backstabbing, it is our last resort in a politically messed up round like this.

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by cura

This is our answer to Failing Omens stance in a meeting we had with them, where they rejected all possible deals we could offer them. The only thing they wanted to accept was us to break the 72 hour notification period with eXi and attack them straight away. NewDawn is an alliance that takes pride in it's honor towards players and alliances. We are not an alliance to break agreements, this post isn't backstabbing, it is our last resort in a politically messed up round like this.

we'll gladly make any logs available to anyone who cares to read them

[Barrow|Pony]

especially if Heartless is still buying!!

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

we'll gladly make any logs available to anyone who cares to read them

o/

[Willzzz]

lol Very interesting thread. Inteligent and amusing at the same time. Perhaps we could see somone of the lovely HC Team from omen/angels to post regarding this?

I once had ND down as an alliance that would sit back and watch how things took place. Not anymore. I have respect for anyone that goes publically in calling another alliance, which is trying to force pollitics onto others, out.

I have said in most threads that Angels pollitics have failed them completly this round, perhaps now we will see a more public display of them failing.

[LEFF|pm]

Originally Posted by Willzzz

lol Very interesting thread. Inteligent and amusing at the same time. Perhaps we could see somone of the lovely HC Team from omen/angels to post regarding this?

I once had ND down as an alliance that would sit back and watch how things took place. Not anymore. I have respect for anyone that goes publically in calling another alliance, which is trying to force pollitics onto others, out.

I have said in most threads that Angels pollitics have failed them completly this round, perhaps now we will see a more public display of them failing.

I actually wanted to reply only once, but this one is worth at least another reply. A short one:

"LOL"

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

I actually wanted to reply only once, but this one is worth at least another reply. A short one:

"LOL"

they must have given you and mek the keys to the ND whine wagon this round eh?

[wakey]

So here we have ND as one of only 2 alliances who are really able to compete anywhere near exil's level but ND arent willing to goto war with exil to prevent them walking away with the round because you feel its wrong that they should benifit from a merge*

So rather than doing what you should do and hitting exil together and then fighting it out once the tasks complete you want FO to agree to hand you the round. How does that make you any better than FO, it would be a farce and the rounds been farcical enough with all the mergers to get around the alliance limits/score system without this


* which btw is hugely hypocritical, when it was lower down the rankings that alliances were doing this the likes of ND members were calling me a 'moaner' yet as soon as it potentially stop you winning a round its an issue

[Linoge]

either way this post is sure to create a fun last few weeks of pa who ever wins

ND HC FTW!

[LEFF|pm]

Honor? New Dawn never had anything else then arrogance. Im not saying that exi would actually deserve the win, since omen and new dawn worked their asses off to make sure they win the round, but since they are the only alliance which did not make fools of themselves, their victory is absolutly legitimate.

I am however 100% sure that any other alliance, no matter if its Angels, Omen, VsN or maybe even New Dawn in with the same political relations and membersize of exilition would have won in the same situation.

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

Honor? New Dawn never had anything else then arrogance. .

I am glad you are the pinnacle of tolerance then. I asume you are assosciated with angels, but I dont actually remember.

Anyway. Here is a log of a angels officer having a go at me last round for drunken piggying him (while he himself was actually piggying).

Officers represent the alliance as a whole dont they ?

http://www.geocities.com/idler_lee/Werewolf.txt
(note, the bit where I sound daft and holy, its actually all an act to see if I could make him leave Angels)

[cura]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

(note, the bit where I sound daft and holy, its actually all an act to see if I could make him leave Angels)

[22:14] <Idler> Your damn ships away from it when i dont give a **** if u think u wana be stupid but to be honest retards grow on threes i this galaxy we had it all covered once again and some retard goes and send all hes assassins to kill inc that doesnt even have pods NEWBS attacking uss and we wana steal I SPEND ALL MY RESOuRCES SO THAT WE COULD STEAL IT ALL and again SOME IDIOT send ASSASSINS seriously do u guys h8 me so much or wtf is going on ? I CAN ASSURE U AS LONG AS I DONT KNOW THE PLANETS ITS NOT FARMING IF THATS WOT U THINK. I HAVE NO IDA WHO THEESE ****TARDS ARE BUT IN FUTURE IF I SAY ITS COVERED AND U SEND DEFENCE WITHOUT CONSULTING ME IN MIRC ILL GET U ROidED and after that ill kick u out






what?
(I picked that part of the log cause everybody in PA knows what werewolf is like, I'm pretty sure every command channel of all alliances have had a good laugh at him at some point in PA)

[Phil^]

oh how insightful of you leff.
From what I can see, you have three options
Reject the proposal and lose the round
Accept the proposal and lose the round
or Accept the proposal, backstab to win the round and lose any credibility for future rounds.

the balls in your court, which shall it be?
( grats to ND for doing this publically btw, masterstroke of PR )

[Spritfire]

Originally Posted by Phil^

oh how insightful of you leff.
From what I can see, you have three options
Reject the proposal and lose the round
Accept the proposal and lose the round
or Accept the proposal, backstab to win the round and lose any credibility for future rounds.

the balls in your court, which shall it be?
( grats to ND for doing this publically btw, masterstroke of PR )

10 points for you \o/

[Alki]

Originally Posted by Phil^

oh how insightful of you leff.
From what I can see, you have three options
Reject the proposal and lose the round
Accept the proposal and lose the round
or Accept the proposal, backstab to win the round and lose any credibility for future rounds.

the balls in your court, which shall it be?
( grats to ND for doing this publically btw, masterstroke of PR )

oh please take your dick out of there ass jesus christ, this thread is as much a farce as the whole round has been.

ND comes here tries to claim the moral high ground by creating this thread by saying, 'oh we really really really want to hit exi, but we cant because we cant allow FO to win' You are as much to blame if not even more for allowing exi to be #1 at the moment. This thread is utter tripe, a complete and utter shit way of creating bad PR for Angels Omen, because you know fine well that they will not accept the offer, and even if they do and backstab you, you always have this thread to bounce back on.

Either way what happens your going to come out better from all this to all the blind idiots, just for the sheer fact that if exi win you can roll around and say 'oh we wanted to do something but FO wouldnt agree to it' and if FO win(from you proposal) it simply screws there politics for next round, or does it?

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by Alki

ND comes here tries to claim the moral high ground by creating this thread by saying, 'oh we really really really want to hit exi, but we cant because we cant allow FO to win' You are as much to blame if not even more for allowing exi to be #1 at the moment. This thread is utter tripe, a complete and utter shit way of creating bad PR for Angels Omen, because you know fine well that they will not accept the offer, and even if they do and backstab you, you always have this thread to bounce back on.

Either way what happens your going to come out better from all this to all the blind idiots, just for the sheer fact that if exi win you can roll around and say 'oh we wanted to do something but FO wouldnt agree to it' and if FO win(from you proposal) it simply screws there politics for next round, or does it?

Precisely
Its a PR move, plain and simple to set FO up as the fall guy if either Exilition win, or FO win by pointing to this thread.

Originally Posted by Felagund

Yeah cura u played exis politics congrats

Everyone did, by not recognising them as a credible threat early on and actually DEALING with it - rather then fannying about. Their best advantage this round was that they were underestimated, to everyone elses cost.

[robban1]

hehe too bad nd are crap targets :/ you damn bunch of orange xp whores, no wonder you feel the heat and did the only thing you could do nobos haha

[Benneh]

haha this is great.

Whatever just kill that top gal too <3

[GrandAdm Thrawn]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

There have been repeated claims that the merger of Omen & Angels had nothing to do with trying to win; you claim it was simply a matter of revitalizing your membership and of creating something for the future.

The problem of course is that no-one outside of FO believes that for a minute.

You also claim that you don't care about who wins, as long as it isn't exi.

You have aproached ND about the possibility of ending our NAP to exi & all of us joining in together to stop the evil exi empire.

The problem with that is, if we do succeed in defeating exi, the likely winner of the round would of course be FO.

FO winning the round after the merge is a possibility that is unacceptable to us. We would rather continue to hit FO for the remainder of the round & let exi waltz to victory then accept the possibility of FO winning.

So here is our proposal:

We will agree to give immediate notification to exi that we will end our NAP.
At the end of which time we will commence on coordinated full scale hostilities towards exi.
You will agree that no matter what the outcome of the following wars is, you will on the last day of ticks remove enough people from the FO tag that you will finish below ND in the alliance rankings.

This gives you an opportunity to prove that the purpose of the merger wasn't to try to steal the win, it also gives you an opportunity to stop exi from winning the round handily.

If you are serious about the claims you have made regarding your merger, then we're sure these terms will be acceptable.

edited for spelling

funny

[Travler]

There is no way FO will go for this. They still think they can win. The value difference alone should be enough to tell FO that they will be #2 within 48 hours and #3 or #4 before round end.

By not taking this offer FO is going to get targeted non stop by eXi and with ND still in the mutual avoidance agreement ND will be able to take the #2 slot again.

Bold move ND but FO would rather be 3rd or 4th than 2nd.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Travler

There is no way FO will go for this. They still think they can win. The value difference alone should be enough to tell FO that they will be #2 within 48 hours and #3 or #4 before round end.

By not taking this offer FO is going to get targeted non stop by eXi and with ND still in the mutual avoidance agreement ND will be able to take the #2 slot again.

Bold move ND but FO would rather be 3rd or 4th than 2nd.

This isn't golf. The aim is not to get the lowest score!

[add100]

in a way i feel sorry for ND saying we will only take on exil if FO drop members out of tag to let them win....can they not do any better :P or at lest work for it

[Marinho]

Can we get an Official response any soon? The clock is ticking!

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by add100

in a way i feel sorry for ND saying we will only take on exil if FO drop members out of tag to let them win....can they not do any better :P or at lest work for it

Wait a sec there!
Work to win?
Your alliance just merged trying to win. Talking about laziness.

FAnG and Omen have shown their incapability this round. Solid stupidity.
When you know Exilition is a contender for the nr. 1 spot, you focus on them. If you want other people to help you, ask them... don't threaten / attack them like you did with ND.

As long as I have known ND (since round 2), they have always primarily focused on fun and honour. They'd rather end 2nd or 3rd while honouring their agreements than winning the round in a dishonourable fashion.

[bjwroi]

Why don't Exi attack ND Now that they've shown they're wantin to take em down :P Everyones thinkin it

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by bjwroi

Why don't Exi attack ND Now that they've shown they're wantin to take em down :P Everyones thinkin it

If eX attacked ND now they'd be a) breaking the 72 hour NAP agreement and b) encouraging ND incs on them right away.

[GrandAdm Thrawn]

Originally Posted by bjwroi

Why don't Exi attack ND Now that they've shown they're wantin to take em down :P Everyones thinkin it

why should they start a war when they can have victory without fighting the whole round long

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

We will agree to give immediate notification to exi that we will end our NAP.
At the end of which time we will commence on coordinated full scale hostilities towards exi.
You will agree that no matter what the outcome of the following wars is, you will on the last day of ticks remove enough people from the FO tag that you will finish below ND in the alliance rankings.

So the only way you can beat eXilition is if FO help you? And the only way you can beat FO is if FO throw the victory on the last day? And you would trust them to agree to do this? I don't have enough drugs to make this make sense

Why not just agree to hit eXilition after 72 hours, and accept that if FO do so more profitably than you do, then they win? Why not just play it straight, and hope that eX will expend more energy hitting FO than hitting you? By going public with these kinds of political machinations, you're making FO look like they might even be justified in their behaviour.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

Why not just agree to hit eXilition after 72 hours, and accept that if FO do so more profitably than you do, then they win? Why not just play it straight, and hope that eX will expend more energy hitting FO than hitting you? By going public with these kinds of political machinations, you're making FO look like they might even be justified in their behaviour.

Agreed.

[jerome]

for the love of god why are you all trying so hard to help exilition win, why not me

[Lei~]

look at gates ideas nd hc. those are the way to go. I even nominated one of his posts where he proposes to all "smaller" block members to nap nd&fo and fight exi with em. Afterwards nd and fo will have one week or something to fight it out. So how about it? Doesnt that sound reasonable?

[Veedeejem!]

Congratulations eXi on winning the round...

On-topic:
whoever thought of that proposal should be shot...
IF FO would accept it and do what you ask, they would be throwing away their chance at #1 completly and lose all credibility to their members. Even if they would accept it, if they allready know they can't win, why would they even try hard at attacking eXi?
They can't win anyway so why even bother?


To me this is just ND's way of making sure they won't be blamed if eXi wins the round. Thats probably the reason they made a proposal like that on a public forum, for everyone to read...

Originally Posted by Random ND'er

We wanted to attack them together with FO and maybe have a small chance to win, but they wouldn't agree to the terms, so we kept the nap with eXi instead...

A quote i guess we'll be seeing alot in the future...

[Barrow|Pony]

We're tired of a few things:

1) Furious Omen saying that they didn't merge to beat the scoring system to win.
2) Being blamed for not single-handedly attacking the alliance with the highest concentration of value.
3) An ill-founded perception of our unwillingness to make political moves to win the round.
4) stupid people.

if any of the accusations were, in any form, accurate, then the ferocious beast that is AD would be completely justified with funny cute little posts like add's. However, that's not the case. We play our round, we don't deal with liars, and that's that.

This post was meant to illustrate that should, HAHA, Furious Omen stop ****ing about by treating us as an inferior alliance that should do their dirty work for them, we don't hold grudges like they do. Read into it what you will.

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

We're tired of a few things:

1) Furious Omen saying that they didn't merge to beat the scoring system to win.

Planetarion alliance HCs in 'lying bastards' shocker!

Originally Posted by Barrow

2) Being blamed for not single-handedly attacking the alliance with the highest concentration of value.

By whom? Not by anyone with any sense - anyone that matters.

Originally Posted by Barrow

3) An ill-founded perception of our unwillingness to make political moves to win the round.

People are always going to accuse alliances of this. You should be capable of ignoring it.

Originally Posted by Barrow

4) stupid people.

There are far too many of them to waste your time with. Ignore them.

Originally Posted by Barrow

This post was meant to illustrate that should, HAHA, Furious Omen stop ****ing about by treating us as an inferior alliance that should do their dirty work for them, we don't hold grudges like they do. Read into it what you will.

The rankings say that you are an inferior alliance. You are objecting to the idea that, by fighting eXilition, another alliance which is already ahead of you in the rankings might win. This is contrasted with a situation where, if you do not hit eXilition, an alliance already ahead of you in the rankings will definitely win. I don't think you're in any position to be dictating the kind of terms that you're attempting to.

What you should be doing: be diplomatic with FO. In other words, be nice to them. Tell them what they want to hear, encouragedthem to believe that your only interest is in stopping eXilition from winning another round. Break the NAP with eXilition, and follow that with a nice 'may the best alliance win' post on AD. Make it expressly clear that, if FO finish 1st, you're entirely happy for them to win, because if you don't do that they will never trust you. Start laying plans for the first night of hitting eXilition, making sure that every ND member with a fleet launches at least two fleets (ok, this might be unrealistic, but you've got to aim high). In the meantime, hope that FO and Vision/ToF/P|M/whoever make a decent attempt at hitting eXilition, encouraged by your promises of support. At the very least, make damn sure that they entire the fight no later than you do, and at full force.

You and I both know that FO would be bad winners. But there's a difference between privately knowing something, and making a public issue out of it at the very time when you need FO's cooperation. I'm loathe to throw around accusations of political stupidity, but this is definitely bad diplomacy.

I'm sure you can remember round 6. How many alliances did we manage to keep pulling in the same direction against FLVT? I think it was something like 12 alliances at one point, many of whom hated each other's guts. But we were diplomatic about it; we kept our ranting about WP's schizophrenic HC or Dingo's political machinations or Xanadu's incredible obstinacy to our private channels and publicly made nice with people that we didn't like very much in order to serve our long-term plans. It's not particularly fun, but it is very effective (so effective that it was easy enough to persuade most of those alliances to do it again in round 9, only this time with more of a plan about how to dispose of them ).

I admit that it's a lot easier for me to sit outside and make posts like this than it is for you to sit at the middle of it all and deal with the real situation. And I don't think that you are personally responsible for the situation; I have my suspicions about who is really to blame. And FO deserve at least as much of the blame, since they're going to lose too.

[cura]

Originally Posted by Travler

There is no way FO will go for this. They still think they can win. The value difference alone should be enough to tell FO that they will be #2 within 48 hours and #3 or #4 before round end.

By not taking this offer FO is going to get targeted non stop by eXi and with ND still in the mutual avoidance agreement ND will be able to take the #2 slot again.

Bold move ND but FO would rather be 3rd or 4th than 2nd.

Originally Posted by Veedeejem!

IF FO would accept it and do what you ask, they would be throwing away their chance at #1 completly and lose all credibility to their members. Even if they would accept it, if they allready know they can't win, why would they even try hard at attacking eXi?
They can't win anyway so why even bother?

Just to re-iterate something that's already been said I'm sure, FO's stance in several meetings and diplomatic discussions was them claiming they didn't want to win this round. Which is a farce and this thread is the response to it.

[qebab]

Sooo... What you guys are saying is:

1) Hit eXilition for us.

2) Take our incomings of us.

3) In the unimaginale case that you should be above us in score at the last day of the round, hand us your ranking.



That's the best offer you can give?

[Barrow|Pony]

Originally Posted by qebab

Sooo... What you guys are saying is:

1) Hit eXilition for us.

2) Take our incomings of us.

3) In the unimaginale case that you should be above us in score at the last day of the round, hand us your ranking.

No, no qebab. The first two options are what we were offered by your HC. The third is our comedy gold response.

(edit: tense)

[Felagund]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

No, no qebab. The first two options are what we were offered by your HC. The third is our comedy gold response.

(edit: tense)

Angels offered Nd take down exi long time ago and u piss ur pants , i tried atleast twice times , but u played bad politics lettting exi be where it is now .if i were Furious Omen Hc i will answer to ur proposal with a F**** O****

[cura]

Originally Posted by Felagund

Angels offered Nd take down exi long time ago and u piss ur pants , i tried atleast twice times , but u played bad politics lettting exi be where it is now .if i were Furious Omen Hc i will answer to ur proposal with a F**** O****

you're referring to this I take?
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...5&postcount=53

and we played bad politics, lol.
we all know who's responsible for the position where exi is now, there is no discussion about that.

ps. F**** O**** = FVCK OMEN?

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by cura

we all know who's responsible for the position where exi is now, there is no discussion about that.

Every other alliance in the top 5, right?

[Felagund]

Originally Posted by cura

you're referring to this I take?
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...5&postcount=53

and we played bad politics, lol.
we all know who's responsible for the position where exi is now, there is no discussion about that.

ps. F**** O**** = FVCK OMEN?

Yeah cura u played exis politics congrats

[qebab]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

No, no qebab. The first two options are what we were offered by your HC. The third is our comedy gold response.

(edit: tense)

In that case, I would say that they went quite far to give you a reasonable offer.

[qebab]

Drunk as I am, I might change my mind tomorrow. But right now, I take this as a mockery. Which is hardly the right way to propose a political change that, ideally would give you the win this round.

[Barrow|Pony]

Again, we proposed the change. It was shot down because of a stubborn refusal to accept anything less than ND backing out of a political agreement to suit Shoshuro's demands.

We tried....again...and nobody stepped up.

This is a mockery. Then again, so are the priorities demonstrated by Furious Omen HC's to date. Fix it, we'll talk.

[Phil^]

isnt furious omen already a running joke having done this merger? Its not like ND need to try hard in order to make fun of you.

That said, neither of you are going to win with the status quo.
Angels have already said they do not want exilition to win, Is this still the case or have you decided to settle for third place since you sure aint gonna be second so long as ND and Exil are napped and dont make me laugh about your chances for #1.
You're already going to be taking 'their incs' from exil as it is so what do you have to lose?
Nothing as far as i can see. Its a lose-lose situation for you already, the best you can do is save face by achieving a round aim of stopping exilition and clawing back some credibility after this merger you've done by showing it wasnt done 'to try and win'.

Together theres at least a chance ( though im not sure how large a chance, personally. If i were HC of ND / FO i would want more alliances to join in with us ) that you'll be able to stop exilition from taking the win this round.

edit: Is there actually going to be an official response; Yay/Nay ?

[qebab]

Originally Posted by Phil^

isnt furious omen already a running joke having done this merger? Its not like ND need to try hard in order to make fun of you.

Wether or not you like it, this "proposal" was done in order to give ND an eventual round win.

The #3 of the "demands" was the least of my concerns as I read it, as previously mentioned several places, FO did not do the merge to win the round as much as to ensure survival from both the parties in the merge.

However by doing this publically ND has achieved:

1) There is no reason why eXilition shouldn't go full force at FO which is hardly the right move if you actually want this to succeed (Which I am starting to doubt after reading this).

2) There is no motivational factor for FO members to do their best as a collective to do an achievement this round, as any achievement they do will be removed and ranked below ND.

3) You increased the level of despision for ND that was already apparent in the playerbase of FO, which reduces the possibility of political cooperations in future rounds.

Smart move indeed? Heh.

Edit; As mentioned already I am under the influence of alcohol and might change my mind tomorrow. But doing this in a way such as this still surprises me due to the sheer amount of idiocity in it.