Selfish Players

[Ginga]

I am getting sick and tired of selfish players who exile themselves from a galaxy because it simply has "too many n00bs".

My galaxy was strong to start, we got off well, but we have never been very active on IRC despite my constant nagging of my galaxy members.

Some of those who were IRC active have exiled themselves, because they want a better galaxy. This I think is amazingly selfish. You should work with the people you have in your galaxy to build a stronger galaxy.

The game has become too alliance driven. Only alliance players play anymore. Players should put their galaxy first, then their alliance.

How are new players ever going to learn or improve if we just abandon them? Players should not be able to exile themselves, you should live with the galaxy youre given, grow up and deal with the people you have to play with.

Yours Sincearly,
Thoroughly Annoyed Ginga.

[jerome]

PA, similar to rl, is not likely to conform to your ideal world situation.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Ginga

Players should put their galaxy first, then their alliance.

if I were HC of an alliance I would kick anyone putting their galaxy before the alliance and I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd want that. Imagine the problem: "Defending against your alliance/allies ingal"...

[barney]

Originally Posted by Ginga

The game has become too alliance driven. Only alliance players play anymore. Players should put their galaxy first, then their alliance.

seriously try getting into an active/quality alliance with that attitude, however

Originally Posted by Ginga

How are new players ever going to learn or improve if we just abandon them? Players should not be able to exile themselves, you should live with the galaxy youre given, grow up and deal with the people you have to play with.

for a change i agree with you 100%, my opinion of this this round has changed completely, imo self-exile should be abolished completely, and should your galaxy be completely inactive the only way to get out should be by negotiation with PA team (even tho they are doing this anyway this round, giving galaxy jumpers free exiles ). That way ppl in real crap galaxys can escape but ppl in average galaxys would have to train their newer players

[Prawn]

While, in the ideal world of which you speak, everybody could happily co-exist in the galaxies they were assigned, there are important problems with the ideas suggested in this thread.

Take a look at sandmans, namely the lowest scoring galaxies. A lot of the people in these gals are simply not building and I'm sure not using IRC. If someone is unwilling to use IRC, there is no way they can be trained to play PA well. Your idea, therefore, would lead to a situation where numerous IRC active players are stuck in a galaxy with people who refuse to be helped. Can you honestly say that alienating long standing, payed players in this way is a good idea?

As far as the negotiation with PA team for exile is concerned, do you really think that a bunch of unpaid workers are going to remove the auto-exile system in favour of a system which would cause a constant flood of e-mails, IRC PMs and people popping into #support to argue the toss over whether they should be allowed to exile? Get real.

[barney]

well suggest alternatives then, what is more likely to alienate long standing players, a hard fought fun round, or a round where a few super exile galaxys are the only ones in with a chance of winning, and everyone else just gets bashed into the ground because they have the flaw that they stay in a reasonably active galaxy with the aim of helping other ppl out, whats your alternative. and if it was done properly im sure it would not be that much work, maybe have an exile request section, where you can give a reason and request exile in preferances. Maybe 2-3 minutes per application to asses the score / activity of the galaxy.

i do agree that some way of filtering out those ppl who signed up but havn't logged in is needed. maybe after a certain amount ofc inactivity you could be moved to c200+ for the rest of the round unless you log in and move yourself back, that way payed accounts are not deleted, but in the same way they are not interfering with ppl's enjoyment of the game.

[Ginga]

Originally Posted by barney

seriously try getting into an active/quality alliance with that attitude

Well I am.... and I contribute as much to the alliance as any other member..... but I will always defend my galaxy before my alliance.... its the way it should be.

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by barney

... should your galaxy be completely inactive the only way to get out should be by negotiation with PA team (even tho they are doing this anyway this round, giving galaxy jumpers free exiles )....

I sincerely hope this is not currently happening.
Not only does it undermine the entire exile system which has been put in, but it gives rise to the potential for abuse, and claims of favouritism/special favours.

one hopes this is only a pa-myth rather then fact

[Chaos]

There should be a timer on ppl. that logged how active you where. and when you exiled you would be put with ppl around you own activity. that way ppl can be with ppl of same activity. instead of having their whole round and potential destroyed. that way we end up with gals that ppl are pleased with. and then you have the deadend gals where ppl that realy don't give a damn anyway, end up in.

[barney]

Originally Posted by Ginga

Well I am.... and I contribute as much to the alliance as any other member..... but I will always defend my galaxy before my alliance.... its the way it should be.

well im very surprised that an alliance allows you to send def fleets to galm8's when your alliance m8's need them, if i were in your alliance i would not be happy to learn that you are letting allym8's loose out to your galm8's.

Originally Posted by Phil^

I sincerely hope this is not currently happening.
Not only does it undermine the entire exile system which has been put in, but it gives rise to the potential for abuse, and claims of favouritism/special favours.

Yes they are doing this, i know someone who it was costing a fortune to exile who they allowed an additional 2 free exiles to. Irritating me even more after the discussion that was going on at the time in forums, yet nobody has commented on it, kinda funny that. I am not annoyed with the player at all, you work within the boundarys imposed, however i agree with you this has the potential for favoritisma nd undermines the exile system which this proves is completely flawed in the first place.

hence why i was here suggesting alternatives

This is a little stupid ginga, but I do agree that it would be nicer to have more purpose to the galaxy. perhaps you should think of something and put it into the suggestions forum.

[Melesse]

I put my gal before my alliance.

Of course, I also have no access to IRC since my Uni blocked it, and the web based ones only seem to work intermittently....

But I agree with Ginga, I think Galaxies should be placed before alliances, or at least on equal footing. I think this links with the thread about newbies and quitting. If people put their galaxy a little higher, said newbies would have more of a chance to grow b/c they wouldn't get bashed quite as much. As it is, people send D to the alliance, and let the galaxy get hit.

Melesse

[Aryn]

some food for thought..
most newbies aren't allowed to join alliances because they don't know anyone in them, or their planet isn't big enough for the alliances to bother looking at.

yet if we don't stop and help them out and show them how they can grow, how can we expect them to become what we want them to become?

i always put my gal before my alliances when i played in alliances. none of the alliances seemed to mind too much as long as i helped out when i could.
i'm not the best player by far, but i think next round i'll play out of 1:1 so i can help out new players. I urge everyone to try giving a hand to those who need it. just because they don't use irc doesn't mean they're hopeless and don't deserve a chance.

[Vas]

Originally Posted by Ginga

Well I am.... and I contribute as much to the alliance as any other member..... but I will always defend my galaxy before my alliance.... its the way it should be.

Alliances want their members to put the ally first, then their gal 2nd happens in big alliances

[barney]

Originally Posted by Aryn

some food for thought..
most newbies aren't allowed to join alliances because they don't know anyone in them, or their planet isn't big enough for the alliances to bother looking at.

Wrong, plain and simple, there are plenty of alliances out there willing to take on newer/smaller score players who are willing to learn. My alliances have taken in a lot of newer players in the past and developed them. F-crew are a whole alliance who seam to selflessly sacrifice any measure of an alliances ability to take on newer players and train them in the game.

What is needed is for more ppl to take an interest ingal by communicating with new players, explaining their options, helping them themselves, but more importantly directing them where to go to gain a foothold in the world of alliances. This can all be done without sacrificing your own alliance to do so. i will always help out ingal when i can, but if it came down to a choice of my alliance needing my ships or my gal needing my ships my alliance gets them every time, and i would expect nothing different of every single one of my ally m8's.

[Orion Treet]

I agree that the exile system has got to be changed next round because everyone just exiled around untill they landed in supergals, leaving like half the gals dead now. But when the one or two good ones exile out of your gal it's almost impossible not to do yourself if you want to play a bit decenly.

About putting gal before alliance: alliance members are people you've probebly been playing with over a few rounds, you trust them, you know them, some of them are good m8s etc. Your new galaxy: You most likely know no-one (beside your buddypack), you don't know wether you can trust them etc. Ofc you'll build up trust and friendships, but I think you can see my point. My alliance comes first, and very closely after my gal.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Ginga

I am getting sick and tired of selfish players who exile themselves from a galaxy because it simply has "too many n00bs".

My galaxy was strong to start, we got off well, but we have never been very active on IRC despite my constant nagging of my galaxy members.

Some of those who were IRC active have exiled themselves, because they want a better galaxy. This I think is amazingly selfish. You should work with the people you have in your galaxy to build a stronger galaxy.

The game has become too alliance driven. Only alliance players play anymore. Players should put their galaxy first, then their alliance.

How are new players ever going to learn or improve if we just abandon them? Players should not be able to exile themselves, you should live with the galaxy youre given, grow up and deal with the people you have to play with.

Yours Sincearly,
Thoroughly Annoyed Ginga.

Funny thing is Ginga wound up exiling himself

[Ferretus]

I agree with Ginga.

Now before everyone starts shouting at me.

Im 27 (not a kid), I'm experienced (R2 to present inc all mini rounds), I'm in a good alliance and ran a good one for several years, I'm IRC active and spend most of my day/night double checking pa.

The game is now alliance or nothing and this is illustrated by many of the comments of the players above. I would wager many of them didn't play the early good rounds of PA where your galaxy was important. I would argue that its this exact attitude which Ginga (and many others) are infuriated with.

The galaxy should always come first and ALL allies should realise that. The advantages are obvious, if a gal can cover your defence then that saves the alliance resources as well as travel time. An alliance can take a minimum of 8hrs to get to you, often more whereas the galaxy is in constant contact via forums AND irc and can get to you in 5 as well as recall instantly when the enemy fleet runs.

To say an alliance comes first is foolish as they won't be the ones reporting your incoming and covering your arse when you are afk. As I have said many times before in recent rounds, the alliances and focus on alliances may well kill this game as more attention is taken away from building up a good gaming community and therefore helping new players enjoy the game and sign up. (This is all assuming the exile system doesn't kill it first first, hehe).

A similar thread can be found on similar problems...

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=186665

[Ferretus]

Originally Posted by Phil^

I sincerely hope this is not currently happening.
Not only does it undermine the entire exile system which has been put in, but it gives rise to the potential for abuse, and claims of favouritism/special favours.

one hopes this is only a pa-myth rather then fact

I am aware of at least one definate occasion where this has occurred.

[Neferti]

Originally Posted by Ferretus

I am aware of at least one definate occasion where this has occurred.

Me too. Good post by the way (above the quoted one).

[ChubbyChecker]

Have a look at this:

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=186834

I personally think it would go a long way towards solving the exiling problem.

[Chaos]

Originally Posted by Ferretus

The galaxy should always come first and ALL allies should realise that.

You change gal each round. but ally stays the same.
now. where should I put my loyalty ? hmm. tough decision.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Ferretus

The game is now alliance or nothing and this is illustrated by many of the comments of the players above. I would wager many of them didn't play the early good rounds of PA where your galaxy was important. I would argue that its this exact attitude which Ginga (and many others) are infuriated with.

I played them.

Originally Posted by Ferretus

The galaxy should always come first and ALL allies should realise that. The advantages are obvious, if a gal can cover your defence then that saves the alliance resources as well as travel time. An alliance can take a minimum of 8hrs to get to you, often more whereas the galaxy is in constant contact via forums AND irc and can get to you in 5 as well as recall instantly when the enemy fleet runs.

No one should ever give a 100% total f*ck about their galaxy, but if I were in a situation I had to choose between my alliance and my galaxy, I would clearly choose my alliance. My alliance always comes first. If my gal m8 had incs and my alliance didn't need my ships I would defend him.

Originally Posted by Ferretus

To say an alliance comes first is foolish as they won't be the ones reporting your incoming and covering your arse when you are afk. As I have said many times before in recent rounds, the alliances and focus on alliances may well kill this game as more attention is taken away from building up a good gaming community and therefore helping new players enjoy the game and sign up. (This is all assuming the exile system doesn't kill it first first, hehe).

Why is it foolish? I'd rather have my alliance win than my galaxy. Galaxies doesn't mean as much as they did in the earlier rounds, but alliance does. If there is newbies in my galaxy I would happily help them out and I would happily help out my other gal m8s aswell, as long as it doesn't crash with my alliance.

The situation is totally different nowadays than many rounds ago. Now many of your gal m8s will much likely be hostile towards your alliance, but in the early rounds (r1,r2,r3,r4 etc) the galaxies was built up with members from your alliance/block only, not members of the hostile alliances (except the random rounds ofc). Because of that the galaxies HAD to work together on defense etc.. Back then the galaxies would receive tons of incs from the opposite block, because if the galaxy was weakened their alliance and block were also weakened. The stronger galaxies they had, the stronger alliance/block they had.

Nowadays the galaxies consists of buddypacks (guess you knew that huh?) and many planets from each galaxy is likely to be hostile to your alliance. Let's say VGN went to war with ND, how do you think they would attack? a) Attack galaxies with ND'ers in, cover the whole gal etc or b) attack whole of ND and don't bother with the other planets in the galaxy. I would say option B. Attacking a whole galaxy to get an alliance down will waste too many fleets to make it worth it as there's many alliances in each galaxy and it'll be easier to cover the incomings with alliance def. If you attack a whole alliance instead and don't bother with the other planets in the gals, then you're more likely to be able to bring an alliance down. The alliance under attack won't be able to cover many of their incs and covering it ingal in the night will be very hard sometimes. Some gets covered by galaxies ofc, but many doesn't. Only the galaxies in the top10/top5 will be able to cover such incs everytime because they're hardcore gamers who were lucky enough to end in same galaxy. But below that, the galaxies is a real mix of shit/inactive players and some actives.

And as Chaos said, you change galaxy every round. Rounds ago the gals could have stayed the same for many rounds. So alliance > galaxy. Times change and you'll just have to keep up.

[Orion Treet]

Agreed with Nadar, and yes, I've also played some of the earlier rounds (round 4 and up)

Replace alliances with races and make it mean something. Make galaxies have only one kind of race in it. Make more races. remove exile.

[Orion Treet]

Well that was a pointless reply

[Chaos]

Cute idea. have each Ally be a race. and have the HC create the race stats by using up their points, and/or adding bonus feats that will give plus to something and minus to other stuff.

like: you gain +1 eta reduction on all your ships but you will then loose 25% of armor on all ships. or something like that.

The stats for the different races/alliances would hafto be added in the dumps. else all bcalcs would be useless.

[Phil^]

i can see groups of alliances working together to create god-like combos. for instance. one goes all-out on initiative and emp strength, the other goes all out on cost, armour and steal. ( ie flak ) Each alliance plugs the others holes

[furball]

Did someone say blocking?

[Orion Treet]

besides that it would change the entire game, just wouldn't be PA anymore

[Ferretus]

pa isnt pa anymore in my view anyway. It has evolved, this would be another evolution is all. Not my idea of something that should happen, but with the way things ahve been going I would not be surprised.

[Ferretus]

Nadar
[quote]No one should ever give a 100% total f*ck about their galaxy, but if I were in a situation I had to choose between my alliance and my galaxy, I would clearly choose my alliancep[/unquote]

We know, you said in a previous post. You have the exact attitude I am referring to which in my opinion is bad for the game.

[demiGOD]

Create wings of all alliances of the game. These alliance wings will be coded in-game and will hold a maximum of 50 members. PA players who are new to the game will be recommended by their galmates to apply for, lets say 1up's wing alliance, Angels', WP's, and so on and so forth.

Wing alliances will be involved with all alliance attacks, defenses, and politics. So a normal alliances can hold 50-60 core members with a wing alliance with ~10-20 members. This way, no matter how much of a noob you are in a wing, the alliance who "mentors" that wing can still provide full protection of you in a situation where noob bashing is evident.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Ferretus

You have the exact attitude I am referring to which in my opinion is bad for the game.

No, my views are based on how the game works today. PA Team decided that they want buddypacks/randoms which creates these kind of galaxies. It's up to them how they want the game to survive, not up to me. Would you weaken/kill your alliance to make the game survive? When it comes to my alliance I'd be very selfish and I think most would.

[Orion Treet]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

Create wings of all alliances of the game. These alliance wings will be coded in-game and will hold a maximum of 50 members. PA players who are new to the game will be recommended by their galmates to apply for, lets say 1up's wing alliance, Angels', WP's, and so on and so forth.

Wing alliances will be involved with all alliance attacks, defenses, and politics. So a normal alliances can hold 50-60 core members with a wing alliance with ~10-20 members. This way, no matter how much of a noob you are in a wing, the alliance who "mentors" that wing can still provide full protection of you in a situation where noob bashing is evident.

All large alliances used to have junior wings for new recruits, but I don't see this happening any time soon.