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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 00:59   #1
Boogster
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The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

The apostrophe is a fabulous tool. Magically, 'you would' becomes 'you'd'; and 'you have' becomes 'you've'.

But, and now to the real question: is you'd've grammatically correct.

I cannot be bothered to find out myself.
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 01:01   #2
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

I dont think it is. But since im about as intelligent as a mouldy shoe i doubt thats correct.
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 03:57   #3
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

how intelligent is a mouldy shoe, is the real question
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 04:05   #4
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

No.
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 04:17   #5
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Exclamation Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
But, and now to the real question: is you'd've grammatically correct.
It's certainly grammatically correct in spoken English and informal writing. Many people disapprove of contractions altogether in formal writing.
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 05:23   #6
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
is you'd've grammatically correct.
Amazingly The Bedford Handbook for Writers says nothing about it in the section on contractions. Microsoft Word doesn't like it, and to be honest, is that even pronouncable?
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 06:36   #7
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

No, it isn't grammatically correct to write it down like that.

In common speech people do use it, but it would be typed as "you'd have". It's just that people often slur their words nowadays (in this fast crazy world we live in!) so it sounds like "you'd've".

I wouldn't be surprised if it became incorporated in our language at some point though, as it's still evolving.

A word I'm confused about is "anymore" - I'm sure that never used to be a word, and used to be two separate words. People use it so commonly that I'm doubting my memory though.
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 06:51   #8
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

my personal favourite is 'anyway' or 'anyways'

anyway.. i've heard the term 'you'd've' so many times but i've never stopped to think about how you'd write it down, or if it's an actual word. i'm with TK though i think i would have written 'you'd have' instead of the double contraction.
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 07:20   #9
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

"anyway" is a word though

(or is that not what you meant?)
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 07:50   #10
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It's just that people often slur their words nowadays (in this fast crazy world we live in!) so it sounds like "you'd've".
And people start writing it as "you'd of"
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 07:54   #11
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

There is no such thing as a "proper" word. There are merely words that are understandable and aesthetically pleasing to the originator and recepient of any communication.

You'd've sounds fine in spoken form so I'd use it (and indeed I do) - in written form it looks awkward so I'd avoid it.

English is a free language and there is no central authority which deems words "proper" or not - dictionaries recognise words already in common usage after the fact but do no more.
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Unread 20 Apr 2005, 19:53   #12
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
dictionaries recognise words already in common usage after the fact but do no more.
They also serve to allow the large retarded population on the internet to distinguish between the verbs to lose and to loose and the proper noun Toulouse.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 00:13   #13
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
The apostrophe is a fabulous tool. Magically, 'you would' becomes 'you'd'; and 'you have' becomes 'you've'.

But, and now to the real question: is you'd've grammatically correct.

I cannot be bothered to find out myself.
I can't believe you had to ask.

'I ain't' is clearly the most used phrase for people who can't speak English properly. But You'd've is somewhere quite high on the list.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 00:22   #14
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakoff
I can't believe you had to ask.

'I ain't' is clearly the most used phrase for people who can't speak English properly. But You'd've is somewhere quite high on the list.
How is "you'd've" incorrect in spoken english? Obviously it's incorrect in written english, but does anybody actually say "you would have"?

I would say that people who confuse "would have, could have" etc... for "would of, could of" are the most common mistake in not only spoken, but also frequently written english.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 00:23   #15
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

are you people honestly telling me that somewhere there are people who say "you'd've"

it sounds almost impossible to articulate properly

what's wrong with you would've

how much time can you possible save???
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 00:25   #16
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
are you people honestly telling me that somewhere there are people who say "you'd've"

it sounds almost impossible to articulate properly

what's wrong with you would've

how much time can you possible save???
Personally I reckon I say "you'd've" just as much as I say " you would've" - obviously I don't think about which one to say before I say it, I suppose it just depends which fits in better in the sentence.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 06:14   #17
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

prenounce as "udof"
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 06:52   #18
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
how much time can you possible save???
I think it's as much to do with laziness of people talking (not putting the effort in to articulate words or speak well), as time saving.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 14:47   #19
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
But, and now to the real question: is you'd've grammatically correct.
No. But if we both start using it the inherent incorrectness will be overridden by the collective usage, making it indeed correct.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:06   #20
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

The apostophe is sometimes used for the omission of letters in the pronounciation of words.
Also in the case of possession, "Boogster's" is simply short for "Boogster his"
I have learned in the past that using "you've", "you'd" or anything with an apostrophe that indicates an abbreviation of a word, with the exception of possessive constructions, isn't proper written English.
But, apart from it being proper or not, if the pronounciation of "you'd've" is acceptable and understandable when spoken aloud, I'd say it's grammatically correct too.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:28   #21
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

BTW, how do you British people pronounce Leicester? I had a discussion with my old schoolmates last Friday where one of them said you call it "Lester". I wouldn't believe it untill I heard the lady in the underground say it. Are there any other pronounciations or is that the only proper way of saying it?
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:31   #22
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Are there any other pronounciations
No.

If it's any consolation, I feel the same about several Dutch words.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:32   #23
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
BTW, how do you British people pronounce Leicester?
Less-ter.

Or, Less-ta.

There are no other 'correct' way of pronouncing it. It's an odd pronunciation.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:42   #24
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

'Fernaux Pelham' - heard people say 'furr-no pell-em' and 'furr-noks pell-em'. I'm sure the people who live there don't even know how to say it.

'Worcester' - 'wuss-ter'

'Leinster' - 'Lens-ter'

'Ciabatta' - why do some people say 'chee-ah-batta'?? (completely unrelated to the others, just a pet-peeve)
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:44   #25
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
The apostophe is sometimes used for the omission of letters in the pronounciation of words.
Also in the case of possession, "Boogster's" is simply short for "Boogster his"
No it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
I have learned in the past that using "you've", "you'd" or anything with an apostrophe that indicates an abbreviation of a word, with the exception of possessive constructions, isn't proper written English.
Nonsense. It might be discouraged in guides to formal writing, but it's certainly not improper.
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:50   #26
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
'Ciabatta' - why do some people say 'chee-ah-batta'?? (completely unrelated to the others, just a pet-peeve)
Because that is the proper Italian pronounciation.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:52   #27
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

oh dear, could i persuade you to delete your post somehow?
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:56   #28
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
'Fernaux Pelham' - heard people say 'furr-no pell-em' and 'furr-noks pell-em'. I'm sure the people who live there don't even know how to say it.
Neither do the people of Shrewsbury, who can't decide whether it's "Shroosbury" or "Shrowsbury".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 16:00   #29
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
oh dear, could i persuade you to delete your post somehow?
One suitcase of small unmarked bank notes and an airplane ticket to Rio de Janeiro should do the trick
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 16:08   #30
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

id never say that, but then, i have no idea about english and you people always did strange things with it.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 18:48   #31
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
'Ciabatta' - why do some people say 'chee-ah-batta'?? (completely unrelated to the others, just a pet-peeve)
Because that's how it's pronounced?

I like the "Merlot" one.
Most people pronounce it "mer-loh", as in the French pronunctiation. When in England, supposedly you should pronounce it "Mer-lot" - mainly because we're not in france, so shouldn't pronounce a silent "t".

True story.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 19:52   #32
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

i always anglicise my french words

can't have the frogs thinking they matter
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 19:58   #33
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
'Fernaux Pelham' - heard people say 'furr-no pell-em' and 'furr-noks pell-em'. I'm sure the people who live there don't even know how to say it.
It's like the horrible parvenus who refer to Harrogate as "harrow gate" when it's "'arr i gut" and always will be.
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 00:45   #34
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Re: The wondrous intricacies of Grammar

Remember your glottal stops guys, every commoner knows his glottal stops.
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