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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 15:47   #51
BloodyButcher
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Re: R61 predictions

NoXiouS allready hinted towards another BF vs RainbowS war, so im pretty sure they will go after us pretty early
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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 15:55   #52
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Re: R61 predictions

I am sure that NoXiouS knows that this would not be a good idea if they want to go for first. While the lure of launching some kind of blitzkrieg is strong in pa you cant assume your opponent will roll over and beg for mercy. If Rainbows were to keep fighting over the long term, or even give up and then join with Black Flag's enemies, then attacking Rainbows would be tantamount to BF shooting itself in the foot.
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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 17:15   #53
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
I am sure that NoXiouS knows that this would not be a good idea if they want to go for first. While the lure of launching some kind of blitzkrieg is strong in pa you cant assume your opponent will roll over and beg for mercy. If Rainbows were to keep fighting over the long term, or even give up and then join with Black Flag's enemies, then attacking Rainbows would be tantamount to BF shooting itself in the foot.
Not necessarily. If an alliance is likely to be hostile regardless then it's probably a good thing to smash them early. Rainbows are pretty relentlessly anti bf from memory and if there isn't a particular reason to think that's going to change (brain surgery becoming available on b-butcher's health insurance for instance) then it's probably a good idea.
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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 17:16   #54
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Seems like Adapts claim that BF would be understrengthened is wrong.
Looking at the race strats i think CT or BF will be fighting it out for #1, seeing alliances like BowS has been ending up in fights with BF in the past, id say its all up for grabs for CT
Did something happen to ult?
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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 17:24   #55
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Re: R61 predictions

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Not necessarily. If an alliance is likely to be hostile regardless then it's probably a good thing to smash them early. Rainbows are pretty relentlessly anti bf from memory and if there isn't a particular reason to think that's going to change (brain surgery becoming available on b-butcher's health insurance for instance) then it's probably a good idea.
You are in one of those perception loops where you each blame the other and consider the other to have started it. Having no idea as to the truth of the matter I will take Rainbows at their word that they consider the slate clean every round. If this is the case then it would be a mistake. Attacking them would simply show that their perception of you was correct and would mean you not giving them the benefit of the doubt. It is also worth noting that since they have an ingame alliance with p3nguins launching an attack on Rainbows might also mean fighting p3n which would make your blitzkrieg much more difficult.
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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 17:36   #56
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by oil View Post
Not necessarily. If an alliance is likely to be hostile regardless then it's probably a good thing to smash them early. Rainbows are pretty relentlessly anti bf from memory and if there isn't a particular reason to think that's going to change (brain surgery becoming available on b-butcher's health insurance for instance) then it's probably a good idea.
We havnt been relentlessly anti BF. Theyve declared war on us in recent rounds without any provokions from our side.
R58 we were actualy working with BF.
NoXiouS has said that he was looking forward for a war this round, wich too me looks like is in their plan.
And as said, we start with a clean slate every round
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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 17:36   #57
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
You are in one of those perception loops where you each blame the other and consider the other to have started it. Having no idea as to the truth of the matter I will take Rainbows at their word that they consider the slate clean every round. If this is the case then it would be a mistake. Attacking them would simply show that their perception of you was correct and would mean you not giving them the benefit of the doubt. It is also worth noting that since they have an ingame alliance with p3nguins launching an attack on Rainbows might also mean fighting p3n which would make your blitzkrieg much more difficult.
This is only a "perception loop" in any meaningful sense if the historical evidence isn't supportive. My "from memory" qualifier would admittedly be fairly broad. I've never been involved in discussions with rainbows, and all my knowledge of them comes from my private channel, and AD. If it's not the case then obviously antagonising them is a bad idea - as it would be antagonising anyone, ever, that you don't need to.

I personally think we played last round terribly. The only favour we garnered as far as I can tell is with the obvious competition for any future round we try to win, and most likely consigned the goodwill we'd gained from p3n for helping them win into the history books. Fully expecting another ult win. Hopefully not as boring as the last one. xx
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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 17:46   #58
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
We havnt been relentlessly anti BF. Theyve declared war on us in recent rounds without any provokions from our side.
R58 we were actualy working with BF.
NoXiouS has said that he was looking forward for a war this round, wich too me looks like is in their plan.
And as said, we start with a clean slate every round
I suspect this isn't an accurate reflection of your history with bf, but again if it is then fair enough.
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Unread 21 Mar 2015, 23:35   #59
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Re: R61 predictions

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I suspect this isn't an accurate reflection of your history with bf, but again if it is then fair enough.
It is a pretty accurate reflection on our history.
Clouds & Co claims that we are biased towards BF, its simply not true.
Clouds even reject speaking to certain some of our HCs.
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Unread 22 Mar 2015, 05:33   #60
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Re: R61 predictions

All numbers we gave out earlier were correct, and you can see me posting earlier that there might be more members when the round starts. So Adapt, at that time, was correct.

BB: We've ended up fighting with bows purely because of bows, and yet again, the choice is yours. But please do restrain yourself from posting rather flaming (and insulting even) posts, if I may politely ask so. And when did I say I was looking forward to a war? I will fight when needed, but I surely haven't said I'm looking forward to war bows... Pls do quote myself if you find such. And all your HCs are welcome to speak to me, even if Clouds doesn't wish to speak to all. Oh, and what comes to biased, feel free to accuse me or mine of cheating again, but pls do provide some proof.

What comes to strats, ULT has an interesting one and we're quite similar with several other tags. Faceless has proven before that no matter their size or strat, they should not be counted out of the competition (as long as they have 40+). In the end, this setting seems to promise a bit more interesting round than the last one at least. We shall see what comes.

P.S. I do enjoy how much you speculate with what BF does
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Unread 22 Mar 2015, 06:30   #61
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Re: R61 predictions

Oh, and also, what comes to new rounds... every round is a new round and what's past is past, much like BB claims to play from a clean slate, we actually do so. Yes, we have good memories of some allies and less good of some, so they may affect in the long run (when voting for an alliance for example), but not really that much, it's all about what's good for us that round.
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Unread 22 Mar 2015, 11:42   #62
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
All numbers we gave out earlier were correct, and you can see me posting earlier that there might be more members when the round starts. So Adapt, at that time, was correct.
Thank you
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Unread 22 Mar 2015, 13:22   #63
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
All numbers we gave out earlier were correct, and you can see me posting earlier that there might be more members when the round starts. So Adapt, at that time, was correct.

BB: We've ended up fighting with bows purely because of bows, and yet again, the choice is yours. But please do restrain yourself from posting rather flaming (and insulting even) posts, if I may politely ask so. And when did I say I was looking forward to a war? I will fight when needed, but I surely haven't said I'm looking forward to war bows... Pls do quote myself if you find such. And all your HCs are welcome to speak to me, even if Clouds doesn't wish to speak to all. Oh, and what comes to biased, feel free to accuse me or mine of cheating again, but pls do provide some proof.

What comes to strats, ULT has an interesting one and we're quite similar with several other tags. Faceless has proven before that no matter their size or strat, they should not be counted out of the competition (as long as they have 40+). In the end, this setting seems to promise a bit more interesting round than the last one at least. We shall see what comes.

P.S. I do enjoy how much you speculate with what BF does
Saying that you wont be full tag, or that you will be playing as a reduced tag, makes people think that you intend to stay way above the limit.

If your political chieftain cant speak to other HCs, then you surely must reconsider if he is the right man for the job.

And no you did not war BowS because BowS was doing you anything wrong, you have wared us in the past because you WANTED to do this, not because we were provoking you or anything.
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Unread 22 Mar 2015, 14:32   #64
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Re: R61 predictions

I decided to let someone else liaise with you because it is quite clear that you have issues with me (judging by your rants on the forums) so I decided to do the professional thing and let someone else from Black Flag liaise with Rainbows. I don't see anything wrong with that.

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Unread 22 Mar 2015, 19:28   #65
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Re: R61 predictions

I think the bopping bird would be suitable candidate
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Unread 22 Mar 2015, 20:20   #66
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Re: R61 predictions

We didn't say we wouldn't be full, quoting myself from before "We're somewhere around 40+ atm.", we didn't say we'd play with reduced tag, we did say we lost some members to RL and due to booting a few, we never claimed to get full either. At those times that some indications of our size was given, those indications were true and we didn't speculate on what the future brings. If you can't read what's written, maybe you're not the right person to do the reading. Our politics are a democracy too, we do decisions together, so there's no Chieftain. Also, with freedom of speech comes the freedom of not to speak, Clouds, as a free man, is free to talk to and not to talk to whomever he wants or doesn't want to. And what comes to provocation (yes, that's how it's spelled), there doesn't always have to be an action, sometimes the intent to act can be enough.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 00:33   #67
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Re: R61 predictions

The post from Adapt clearly indicate that he was told that BF wont be full tag
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 04:16   #68
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Re: R61 predictions

And you can read my post about our size few posts later, maybe he was told that we don't have full tag at the moment and ran his own conclusions, I can't know as I haven't been a part of such a discussion with him. For a good while it did seem that we'll start with ~40, things changed a bit and we now have 10 more than we thought we'd have after last round. I really can't understand the big deal, you've started short and ended up full anyway, why couldn't that happen to anyone else? We had our last applicants approved the day before the round started, couldn't really tell before that if we'd be full or not and like I said, we seemed to be starting with ~40, now pls, give it a rest. Also, I'd like to congratulate you for the fastest in game alliance I can remember (doesn't smell like pre-round at all either)
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 05:26   #69
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Re: R61 predictions

I dont see the problem with lower tier alliances having preround deals, it is very unlikely to stagnate the round.
If it was with Ult/BF/CT id give it critism myself.
Preround deals is often ruining rounds
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 06:10   #70
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Re: R61 predictions

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I dont see the problem with lower tier alliances having preround deals, it is very unlikely to stagnate the round.
If it was with Ult/BF/CT id give it critism myself.
Preround deals is often ruining rounds

A pre-round deal between lower tier/smaller alliances is just as disruptive for other allies of the same size/quality/scoring potential. Just because very little people actually care if alliance x ended 5th or 6th in the end doesn't mean you don't disrupt the round for players in those other alliances.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 08:42   #71
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Re: R61 predictions

Very much what influence said, it's pretty hard going in to the round as HR or Rogues or whatnot smaller tag if other tags of the same size are blocked already and I can say that from experience. You just have to find yourself some bigger allies then and guess what then happens?
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 08:55   #72
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Re: R61 predictions

Pre-round deals are fine. A tick 0 block has no more impact on the game than a tick 200 block, because most wars don't begin until the second half of the round anyway. It's until-the-end-of-the-round deals that are harmful. When blocks fail to dissolve when they've far outgrown the other block(s), that's when stagnation sets in.

I do agree with Butcher that small alliances are less able to cause stagnation, simply because it's very unlikely they'll ever outgrow all competition. For example, Rogues may far outgrow HR, but if they grow too fat, they'll be roided by Ultores. If Ultores far outgrows BF and CT, there is no such threat.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 08:58   #73
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Re: R61 predictions

There is a principle thing at issue here: if pre-round alliances are bad then they are bad for all not just bad for the top. (Though why are they worse than an alliance from t100 or whatever?)
You cant expect the top alliances to abstemious and not the lower alliances... not least because when dealing with pre-round agreements you don't actually know who are going to be the top ones!
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 09:41   #74
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Re: R61 predictions

If two different alliances (one small, one big) doing the same thing have wildly differing impacts on the game, why should they both equally be at fault?
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 15:19   #75
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
There is a principle thing at issue here: if pre-round alliances are bad then they are bad for all not just bad for the top. (Though why are they worse than an alliance from t100 or whatever?)
You cant expect the top alliances to abstemious and not the lower alliances... not least because when dealing with pre-round agreements you don't actually know who are going to be the top ones!
In other rounds smaller alliances had to work together to be abel to cover gals, but that dosnt seem to be able to target fat gals.
BowS had a preround NAP with ND/HR last round, and i fail to see where it affected the round in a bad way.
If BF/CT/Ult would nap one of each other they would prolly be 80 of the most active players in the game be banded together, in addition to out number tags like bows/hr/vikings 1 to 3-4.
It is very very diffrent scenario than #7 and #8 being tied together
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 16:29   #76
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Re: R61 predictions

I obviously wasnt clear.
I dont see that you can huff and puff about other people allying pre round and do it yourself then grant your self an exception to the charge of hypocrisy on the basis of 'im different' my alliance is good for the game, theirs is bad!
It is fine to say ODDR and HR are tiny they alliance wont affect things, likely true. So you move up a grade, its fine to have BowS and P3n ally it wont affect anything. What about if you move up again to Faceless and ND is that allowed? If so then in practice its just saying top allies shouldn't make agreements. Doesnt that sound a bit absurd?
Where do you draw the line between pre-round alliance is good, and pre-round alliance is bad! Thats why I called it an issue of principle, you either think its all bad, or you dont because you cannot sensibly define where its good and where its bad without reference to a partisan position.

I am definitely not disputing that the actual effects of the alliances in question might be radically divergent. However, I do think you ignore a potential to a chain reaction. If two allies ally, and hit another you are encouraging blocking further as a counter (which in general you seem to think a bad thing).

Edit: For the record, I dont actually have a position on pre-round agreements, because Im not convinced they are really any different to an alliance at any other point and although I'm against stagnation i don't have the guts to come out against all alliances between allies!
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 18:15   #77
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I obviously wasnt clear.
I dont see that you can huff and puff about other people allying pre round and do it yourself then grant your self an exception to the charge of hypocrisy on the basis of 'im different' my alliance is good for the game, theirs is bad!
It is fine to say ODDR and HR are tiny they alliance wont affect things, likely true. So you move up a grade, its fine to have BowS and P3n ally it wont affect anything. What about if you move up again to Faceless and ND is that allowed? If so then in practice its just saying top allies shouldn't make agreements. Doesnt that sound a bit absurd?
Where do you draw the line between pre-round alliance is good, and pre-round alliance is bad! Thats why I called it an issue of principle, you either think its all bad, or you dont because you cannot sensibly define where its good and where its bad without reference to a partisan position.

I am definitely not disputing that the actual effects of the alliances in question might be radically divergent. However, I do think you ignore a potential to a chain reaction. If two allies ally, and hit another you are encouraging blocking further as a counter (which in general you seem to think a bad thing).

Edit: For the record, I dont actually have a position on pre-round agreements, because Im not convinced they are really any different to an alliance at any other point and although I'm against stagnation i don't have the guts to come out against all alliances between allies!
Normaly id say that there is 3-4 potential winners each round, at tick start, some rounds perhaps its more and some perhaps its even less than 3.
It is a issue when "potential" winners go out preround NAPing each other, usualy they have something that makes them stronger than other alliances, and if they do make preround deals with their competitors its just to make sure that it at best becomes a two man race for #1.

Now if say HR and NewDawn decided to have a preround deal together last round, it wouldnt make it any diffrent to anyone. It would keep the univers possibily de-stagnated longer than it would if they had kept holding each other down like two crabs trying to escape from a bucket.

Being incharge of politics for a full tag in planetarion is a huge responsibilty, because with "bad" political choices, you might be apart of pushing big chunks of the players in the univers away from playing next round.
Krypton has said that he want smaller tags for more political action, and in his opinion it would make it less likely to stagnate the round. And he does have a point(not that im supporting the idea of smaller tag limits).

It seems like the natural thing to do for "fence" tags to nap off the top alliances, and bottom feed for roids, this is not what BowS aimed for this and last round with our preround deals. Matter a fact when i did politics last round i hoped that the HR/ND preround NAPs would ensure that this did not happend
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 21:31   #78
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Cool Re: R61 predictions

P3nguins are currently on the look out for their third and final deal. If you are interested let me know. Ofcourse you don't have to go public on the forums with such deals as I know politics and naps are heavily frowned upon in planetarion and we should never talk of such attrocities.

However if you elect to pass the opportunity by it ain't my fault but we did offer.

Good luck with the round I hope some predictions at least come true for you all.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 22:21   #79
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Matter a fact when i did politics last round i hoped that the HR/ND preround NAPs would ensure that this did not happend
HR and ND had a preround NAP last round?
That really is news for me...
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 22:42   #80
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
It is a issue when "potential" winners go out preround NAPing each other, usualy they have something that makes them stronger than other alliances, and if they do make preround deals with their competitors its just to make sure that it at best becomes a two man race for #1.
I am no partisan of BF, after all I was a P3n last round, and I dont want to refight last round. However, in my first post my point was that you really dont know whose political moves are going to be what jams things up.
BF and ND prevented a block forming against ult last round. However, to my untutored eye at the beginning of the round it really wasnt looking like BF was a potential winner at all. It initially looked like p3n/Ult/CT (CT the longest odds of those) were the realistic competitors. Indeed, even with a favourable situation it took BF a long time to overtake the battered and bloodied p3n. This is why I was saying there is a problem with suggesting that only the top should be burdened with an injunction of not making deals because in my view it was two mid table, not top allies, that set the political system in stone last round. (Admittedly with considerable help from CT and P3n failing to co-operate until it was too late).

EDIT: With the benefit of hindsight it would be quite easy to say that a number of plausible pre-round alliances would have kept politics unjammed. If P3n had been napped with either of ND or BF and thus prevented the situation where those two attacked p3n while ult grounded to defend so effectively. Even a pre-round CT/P3n alliance may well have kept things simmering, even though from a beginning of the round view such a combination would have been viewed as terrible heretical blocking politics. But you never know which combination might unjam things or whether that route might have just jammed it in a different way.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 23:00   #81
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by Bram View Post
HR and ND had a preround NAP last round?
That really is news for me...
I can paste you logs from IRC.
Quite suprised you didnt know you were NAPed to RainbowS?
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 23:06   #82
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Even a pre-round CT/P3n alliance may well have kept things simmering, even though from a beginning of the round view such a combination would have been viewed as terrible heretical blocking politics. But you never know which combination might unjam things or whether that route might have just jammed it in a different way.
On the other hand a pre round deal between ult and another alliance, or BF and another alliance, or even ND and another alliance (in each case not one of the three) would have stagnated things even sooner.

I agree that it is an all or nothing proposition. If pre round deals are bad they all are. I dont care if you are a tiny alliance it may be your alliance that makes the difference... indeed you are aiming for it to be your alliance's deal that makes a difference in some way so any doing such deals and then complaining about others doing the same is hypocrisy.

On the other hand I agree with mz that it is not abandoning deals once they are causing stagnation that are the real killer. Have free flowing politics through the round in which you know everyone will switch when circumstances change then pre-round deals would be a very good thing; they would get wars started faster and the real business of the round beginning earlier.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 23:12   #83
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Re: R61 predictions

Out of interest how many planets are registered?
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 23:16   #84
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I am no partisan of BF, after all I was a P3n last round, and I dont want to refight last round. However, in my first post my point was that you really dont know whose political moves are going to be what jams things up.
BF and ND prevented a block forming against ult last round. However, to my untutored eye at the beginning of the round it really wasnt looking like BF was a potential winner at all. It initially looked like p3n/Ult/CT (CT the longest odds of those) were the realistic competitors. Indeed, even with a favourable situation it took BF a long time to overtake the battered and bloodied p3n. This is why I was saying there is a problem with suggesting that only the top should be burdened with an injunction of not making deals because in my view it was two mid table, not top allies, that set the political system in stone last round. (Admittedly with considerable help from CT and P3n failing to co-operate until it was too late).

EDIT: With the benefit of hindsight it would be quite easy to say that a number of plausible pre-round alliances would have kept politics unjammed. If P3n had been napped with either of ND or BF and thus prevented the situation where those two attacked p3n while ult grounded to defend so effectively. Even a pre-round CT/P3n alliance may well have kept things simmering, even though from a beginning of the round view such a combination would have been viewed as terrible heretical blocking politics. But you never know which combination might unjam things or whether that route might have just jammed it in a different way.
Well perhaps it can be hard to have a foresight on what political moves can jam up the round, R59 for example had 6 alliances relatively close to each other in the top6. If CT/BowS/Inferno had not be so reluctant to block, perhaps that round wouldnt have been jammed up.

Just stay away from allying your competitors for top3/4 if your going for the top yourself, and you can avoid becomming the scapegoat of another round.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 23:17   #85
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Re: R61 predictions

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Out of interest how many planets are registered?
http://kia.cthq.net/index.php?p=unistats
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 23:23   #86
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Re: R61 predictions

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On the other hand a pre round deal between ult and another alliance, or BF and another alliance, or even ND and another alliance (in each case not one of the three) would have stagnated things even sooner.

I agree that it is an all or nothing proposition. If pre round deals are bad they all are. I dont care if you are a tiny alliance it may be your alliance that makes the difference... indeed you are aiming for it to be your alliance's deal that makes a difference in some way so any doing such deals and then complaining about others doing the same is hypocrisy.

On the other hand I agree with mz that it is not abandoning deals once they are causing stagnation that are the real killer. Have free flowing politics through the round in which you know everyone will switch when circumstances change then pre-round deals would be a very good thing; they would get wars started faster and the real business of the round beginning earlier.
Preround deals become bad when they are starting to affect the round in a negative way, stagnation.
If HR/ODDR/BowS/P3nguins/HODOR block together they prolly wont be able to take down BF/CT if they were a block.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 23:32   #87
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Re: R61 predictions

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On the other hand a pre round deal between ult and another alliance, or BF and another alliance, or even ND and another alliance (in each case not one of the three) would have stagnated things even sooner.
But would it? sure in principle it would, but a good part of last rounds political failures was P3n and CT failed to get in bed together fast enough, clear and early encouragement to counterblock might have been a good thing last round, we just dont know!

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Just stay away from allying your competitors for top3/4 if your going for the top yourself, and you can avoid becomming the scapegoat of another round.
Is not the whole problem that being scapegoat is utterly meaningless, but being caught on the the wrong side of a solidifying alliance system very painful?
Alliances have every incentive to nap or ally top alliances if they can and none to avoid doing so.
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Unread 23 Mar 2015, 23:46   #88
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Re: R61 predictions

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Preround deals become bad when they are starting to affect the round in a negative way, stagnation.
If HR/ODDR/BowS/P3nguins/HODOR block together they prolly wont be able to take down BF/CT if they were a block.
Sorry you seem to have ignored what I said. If what I said were applied to your example of CT and BF making a preround deal then this is a good deal if it has a sensible objective (lets say taking down ult) and if we can then be sure that the deal then ends when that objective is fulfilled. This then allows the cards to be reshuffled, BF and CT to fight for first with blocks behind them. If ult were to go into one of those blocks and that block wins then that block dissolves and fights. Understand?

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But would it? sure in principle it would, but a good part of last rounds political failures was P3n and CT failed to get in bed together fast enough, clear and early encouragement to counterblock might have been a good thing last round, we just dont know!
Maybe maybe not, that was kind of my point it could go either way and it does not matter what size the alliances involved are. We may look back in a month's time and see this ranbows/p3n deal as having been a fundamentally bad thing as a result of consequent events. At the moment I cant see this being the case but we never know; it certainly marginally reduces the flexibility in the system if p3n and bows are not willing to end or redraw their agreement rapidly as circumstances change.
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 00:12   #89
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Preround deals become bad when they are starting to affect the round in a negative way, stagnation.
If HR/ODDR/BowS/P3nguins/HODOR block together they prolly wont be able to take down BF/CT if they were a block.
pre-round deals don't cause stagnation, the refusal of breaking up deals that involve a big part of the active value in the universe causes stagnation. Yet, every ally is in their right to make such a deal, and hold to it, if they believe that gives them the best shot of winning. Alliances do not get points for stopping stagnation, in fact, quite the opposite.
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 00:26   #90
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Re: R61 predictions

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pre-round deals don't cause stagnation, the refusal of breaking up deals that involve a big part of the active value in the universe causes stagnation. Yet, every ally is in their right to make such a deal, and hold to it, if they believe that gives them the best shot of winning. Alliances do not get points for stopping stagnation, in fact, quite the opposite.
Alliance that tend to stagnate, usualy never does well the round afterwards?
xVx, TGV, ODDR and Vikings are examples of this surely.
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 01:23   #91
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Re: R61 predictions

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Alliance that tend to stagnate, usualy never does well the round afterwards?
xVx, TGV, ODDR and Vikings are examples of this surely.
As HC of 2 of the allies you mention i can tell you that the struggle afterwards had very little, if anything, to do with the stagnation caused and much more to do with how draining it is for an alliance of lesser quality to push for a win.

Also, as i assume you are talking about TGV in r51, Vikings finished r52 as third, with the same members and the exact same command team as TGV in r51, so how were we not doing well that round?
And as for xVx, stagnating r43, continued to have top 5 finishes with 20-30 members less than the rest of the top 5 up to r48, when the alliancelimit was lowered, how is that not doing well?
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 01:25   #92
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Re: R61 predictions

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As HC of 2 of the allies you mention i can tell you that the struggle afterwards had very little, if anything, to do with the stagnation caused and much more to do with how draining it is for an alliance of lesser quality to have an attempt at winning.

Also, as i assume you are talking about TGV in r51, Vikings finished r52 as third, with the same members and the exact same command team as TGV in r51, so how were we not doing well that round?
Well TGV disbanded, and Vikings was formed after the disbanding of TGV
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 01:48   #93
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Re: R61 predictions

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Well TGV disbanded, and Vikings was formed after the disbanding of TGV
wrong, TGV did not disband, we just renamed, and considering I've already told you this a million times, I can only conclude I am an idiot for repeating it again.
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 02:03   #94
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Re: R61 predictions

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wrong, TGV did not disband, we just renamed, and considering I've already told you this a million times, I can only conclude I am an idiot for repeating it again.
Like half the TGV tag was not in Vikings the next round.
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 02:39   #95
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Re: R61 predictions

Bitch3r is of course right, the TGV tag disbanded because of their performance the round prior, not because there were ownership issues, and he is certainly right in his judgement that half the TGV tag wasn't in Vikings the following round, even though they had the same member count.

Last edited by Clouds; 24 Mar 2015 at 02:45.
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 02:44   #96
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Bitch3r is of course right, the TGV tag disbanded because of their performance the round prior, not because there were ownership issues. And he is certainly right in his judgement that half the TGV tag wasn't in Vikings the following round, even though they had the same member count.
You could just go look at the history page, and count all the nicks from R51 who isnt in Vikings R52. Id be suprised it 75% of the TGV tag was with Viks the next round
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 03:02   #97
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
You could just go look at the history page, and count all the nicks from R51 who isnt in Vikings R52. Id be suprised it 75% of the TGV tag was with Viks the next round
20% was a fairly normal flow within TGV prior to R51 aswell, from memory the HC marked at least 10 members for probable removal on average in those rounds. In R51 we were joined by a fair number of players from an Ult bg, they left again for r52 as Ultores decided to play again. We were never under the impression that we could keep said BG. At a quick glance in R52 we took in a maximum of 5 players (an Apprime BG) that had no prior history with TGV at all, the rest had all been TGV members in at least 3 of the rounds TGV played since r41, while we 'denied' at least 7 in r51 due to reaching the alliance limit.
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 04:18   #98
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Re: R61 predictions

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
20% was a fairly normal flow within TGV prior to R51 aswell, from memory the HC marked at least 10 members for probable removal on average in those rounds. In R51 we were joined by a fair number of players from an Ult bg, they left again for r52 as Ultores decided to play again. We were never under the impression that we could keep said BG. At a quick glance in R52 we took in a maximum of 5 players (an Apprime BG) that had no prior history with TGV at all, the rest had all been TGV members in at least 3 of the rounds TGV played since r41, while we 'denied' at least 7 in r51 due to reaching the alliance limit.
TGV finished with 50 members r51
and ODDR merged in aswell, im sure they mustve been another 10 players
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Last edited by BloodyButcher; 24 Mar 2015 at 04:24.
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 10:53   #99
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Re: R61 predictions

Lots of emoing after Vulgar Sk's planets
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Unread 24 Mar 2015, 12:07   #100
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Re: R61 predictions

Nooooo, stop telling BB how things actually are, he surely knows better about other tags (especially those he isn't a part of).
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