Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Zikonia has fallen

The once proud empire of Zikonia is no more. Their homeworld conquered, their outposts and colonies invaded and destroyed. Their empire bombed to ashes by the alliance of man and Eitreides, the last remaining Zikoninan fleets have been forced to flee to galaxies far far away. Millions have lost their lives, millions more have lost their homes and their cultural identity.

Zikonia's fall, coming despite their alliances with the Xandathrii and Cathaar Empires, seemed to result from too little focus on their strengths, but instead utilising a wide spread of acquired and adapted technologies and Spaceships. Most of the Zikonians' technology has been destroyed or taken over, their scientists trapped and captured. Terra’s experts have reverse engineered parts of the vanquished race’s stealing technologies, but proud of their honourable war fighting many of their admirals are reluctant to stoop to such practices. Those technologies spurned by Terra have been eagerly pounced upon by the Eitreides Empire, whose past scavenger ways encourage adoption, adaptation, and implementation of new weapons systems. The diffusion of captured technology will inevitably trigger a new arms race and the erstwhile allies’ different attitudes to its use in their own battle-fleets could shift the balance of power between them.

If the seeds of future conflict between the victors can be dimly discerned, the friends of the vanquished have more obvious problems. The Xandathrii race stands accused of focusing on the acquisition of wealth and experience while Zikonia burned, failing to protecting the most strategic galaxies. The peaceful Cathaar could not stand alone against the aggressor races. Their defence may have been noble but rumours abound that Cathaar leaders engaged in secret dealings with the Eitreides Empire to save themselves from a similar fate to the Zikonians. Proof has yet to come to light, but conflict needs only suspicion.

Now after an arc of inter-galactic wars the Zikonian Race is no more and the peace council called between the remaining four empires has agreed a cease fire. However, a new war is just a matter of time. As the Terran and Eitreides Empires both reach new heights they are greedy to acquire new galaxies full of resources. Made arrogant by their success, they could carelessly cause the spark that lights the next conflagration.

http://speedgame.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats

Stats Characteristics:
* Multitargeting
* Offensive
* 4 Races only
* Teamup option for all races
* Terran Stealer

Comments or Questions welcome

cheers m0

P.s. Credits to Londo and Booji for their poetic interception - thank you

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Of all the races to cut...

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I thought it an odd choice too, to me etd would have seemed the obvious one to get rid of. Killing off any of the others will anger that race's fans, etd probably has least people who play it regardless of the stats. I do however quite like the stats regardless they seem to be in the middle between the offensiveness of Pats stats and the defensiveness of BBs.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I would have killed Terran and made the survivors join the Zik empire. Imo Zik has being in the last sets a better Terran than Terran itself.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Any particular races cathaar CO is suppose to attack?
Just looking over it at first glance, vs terran DE it got like 85% emp eff?
It means i would have to be double the size of any terran DE planet basicly?
Im gonna look closer at it later perhaps, atleast it cant be worse than what jintao suggested to be run ;)

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Well clearly not terran; terrans will have wf as flack anyway so terrans would be a really bad choice to attack with cat co! There should be no problem with a fleet not being able to attack one race/fleet type so long as they can attack others. When I did calcs on these a few days ago it was cat fr that was the concern in terms of weak attack not co, though it looks like their emp eff has been boosted a bit so probably less of a concern now. Cat co should be able to attack pretty much anything except de concentrated fleets.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

i know u like this zikonia fall etc.. but remove ETD is the most obvious thing to do.. dunno why they do exist..

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I knew i would get some heat because i removed zik and not etd, however please look at things from the perspective that this is a set meant to be used for a single round.
There is no intention of having ziikonia removed for all times!

For cath co not beeing able to roid ter de, or other heavy de fleets - de fleets are the best counter option against cath co. Everything else will be rather easily roided by co.
So thats intended yes.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Seems like an interesting set.

Things differ quite a lot when u calc and not just look at init and targeting for a change.

Haven't looked closely enough to say it's a good set, but seems interesting at least

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I approve of change.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I like the overall look too.
I'm traditionally Zik/Etd player, and I do think that if your going to remove one race it should be Zik/Etd, but whichever is left should have priority steal ships. Etd can steal 5 other classes here, which is fine.

I like the set and I'd play Etd CR, with Thief/Gryphon/Ranger to steal.. but the option to play Etd FR + others is nice too..

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

http://speedgame.planetarion.com/bca...jx3v8zpbyzoqsc

One def fleet(hull2) of any race would basicly force a cath CO to recall.
I dont mind it being like this, but im not sure this is how you intended it?

Im not sure if anyone is gonna bother going EMP in a round where the kill efficiency is almost as good as the EMP efficiency

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Moth is preemping viper. So rather bad to roid cath fr IDD. Cath co would probably focus on hitting xan fi, ter bs and ETD or other cath co

I'll look at viper emp EFF though. Maybe improve them a lil.

Generally all attack fleets apart from fi co have 2 ticks for ally def. Plus the speed of fico. Don't wanna have them with anymore huge advantages

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Well saying that cath co can "easily roid everything else than DE" is at best a little modifaction of the truth.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I do like morph's stats better even though imo it is a step in the wrong direction

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

idd after looking closer to stats, etd do steal nice ships.. and i have to admit looks like a very well planet set of stats..

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Any fr/de concentration will most likely stop cath co easy. Yes.
But we are talking pl def or ingal def. Anthing on ally eta won't profit from a concentrated fr/de base fleet.
A dc will have to start from scratch to cover.

At the same time all cath co ships are awesome def ships for any alliance.

Good compromis for a limitation of targets I think.

Much depends on what alliances do though. If everyone went fr/de I wouldn't focus on just co for cath.

Pretty much the same if everyone went ter. Xan fi won't be a good idea then.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

What is the point of the ter BS steal ship ?
It is a def ship but only Ter have BS roiding fleet... why steal a ship you can build ?
Managing to steal the etd BS (quite similar to the ter Hydra) or the cath Tara will require a little help from your target.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

You got a valid point there.
I blame terra engineers not used on steal technologies...
For stats reasons the ship allows ter bs a 5 ship build for full coverage.
Would a targeting-switch make the ship more useful? Would definitely make ter better towards fr incs though. This could unbalance things more then I'd like to see. Specially when cat fr wants to solo on ter bs. Then again teamed with ETD it shouldn't be much of an issue. Ter de most likely wouldn't build the stealer anyhow.
What you think?

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

As much as a terran getting fr helps fr team ups immensely it is not particularly useful for the terran itself as the gain would mostly be adding emp ships that are good against fi/co which the terran is already pretty good at, only capturing frigs that are anti cr would actually be useful, and even then that is only the scarab's t2. The battleships on the other hand as a solo roiding fleet will be actively looking to steal tarantulas as the ship that most improves that attack fleet.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Cath won't most likely be attacking with BS, and you can't fake CR as DE (even with covopped CR pods) so getting tulas is highly unlikely unless you're farming (which, sadly, Pirate does encourage to and which, again sadly, isn't that unfamiliar in PA). Hence I strongly dislike the ship (as I do dislike any ship that encourages farming, or stats). Another farmer ship is Ranger, as Roach would highly improve ETD CR fleets and you shouldn't see much CATH CR attacks either (nor should Roach be normally deffing against a ETD inc).

FI has a chance to make sense as attack fleet, the emp effs are lovely low. Xan with stolen CO pods (another farming option...) could work nice with Cath CO.

CO feels a bit overtargeted, especially compared to DE, all the FI fires at CO + flaks against FR (tho I wouldn't expect much more than def planets to have a lot of Vsharak [as it's the only FI that fires at FR and pretty much any FR def means pull for FI]).

FR teamups will also be a pain to cover, as there shouldn't be that much vsharaks around (except on defplanets) and you can build the teamup to emp CO and kill CR, only needs a handful of anti-FI for success.

DE in general feels a tad too strong as there's only really PL def against it, or sacrifice a lot of value before you start shooting (much like DE R66).

CR is so dependent on how the universe goes, if there's a lot of TER/XAN DE around, CR won't be much fun to attack with, or lot of dragons around ofc. Also the targetings doesn't really support going CR attack with FRDEBS firing at CR. (Altho xan FR doesn't make sense unless you're donating them to ETD).

BS suffers from DE heavy uni too, but only really has to worry about DE (thanks to targeting and Inits) so if I wanted easy attacks and easy calcs, I'd just spam into TER BS (and if I was the cheating sort, farm me some tulas for 100% free lands).

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

When you got four races and all the teamup options is in FR/DE, dont you think its likely to be a few FR/DE planets?

Im afraid these stats look kind of narrow, and im not sure if this would result in more offensive stats or more def planets/support planets stats.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Don't play cath co if u don't like?

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

lol, im not playing next round either, dont worry, that wasnt my point anyway.
Mature answer you came up with eh :salute:

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Narrow in the sense that you think everyone will go for fr/de? However this is really your opinion, as all the other classes are playable, indeed are easier to use solo than any of the fr de options. The difficulty perhaps is that cr/bs and fi/co don't team brilliantly - though vipers are helpful to xan fi, and bailiffs to Ter bs. So what you are getting at is will any alliance be willing to bet on a single race plus def-planets/scanners (unless it is xan)? Difficult to say how much this is a real problem considering how often alliances in practice have two fleets - this round for example many xans have fr and fi, or cats have cr and co - which would enable some veriety even without considering stealing pods/ships.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Cath co can team with cath co so there's team options for other than fr/de. Or ter bs can team with ter bs

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Thank you for your amazing insights.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

first of all thx for the time you put into that analyze and for sharing it with us

i dont want to comment on the ship farming issue, as i think you cant prevent that to happen, unless you remove ship covops and steal ships alltogether

for co beeing overtargeted i think it wont play out like that in praxis, as any fr/de concentration setup will have anti co build in fr/de class allready. So even if any race provides anti co in fi class, by far not everyone would build em.
like mentioned above co class still wont be the best shot to roid fr/de planets, but if they manage to roid the base fleet, defending them on ally eta, wont be the most easiest thing to do.

both fr/de beeing hard to stop i agree - thats intended though
with this set the key factor will be to be good against fr/de - as there will be tons of those flying around (the narrow argument in this thread)
however for your personal setup this stats also mean, that if you wanna be good against fr/de yourself - your value shouldnt be in fr/de

e.g. a terran with value concentration in BS (and cr) wont be the first picked fr/de target
same goes for any etd having their value in CR (and bs)
at the same time a terran DE or ETD FR will have a much harder time to stop fr/de attacks
on the other hand those (bs,cr) planets wont be able to offer their anti fr/de for ally defence.

At last i disagree with that their wont be many vsharrak around, its xans only anti fr, i would expect to see quite some beeing built

Now in a universe where everyone is expected to be fr,de and most ally def fleets are aimed to stop fr/de (as thats the most incs) isnt this heaven on earth for any other metaclass to sneak in and get some roids ?

Yes fr/de are the obvious fleet setups to go, specially if any responsible HC is narrow enough to want to be just 1 class for all his alliance
But this doesnt necessarily mean fr/de will be the best choice?

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I had a look at the stats, and got some feedback:

-Xan DE is way too hard to stop. And the only kill ship with ini advantage is Another xan ship that you need to PL. I would move that ship to another race so that xan isn't the only one who can stop xan. You probably have to increase the effeciency of the vipers too and/or add an ini advantage kill ship against DE (imho, preferably on ally eta). You already have the faking advantage of xan - you really need to have stronger anti DE ships - or everyone will just go xan DE.

-Both with FR and DE - there is the issue that it will be considerably harder to DC those incs compared to fi/co/cr/bs - this might of course be intentional - but it will lead to a very narrow pick for alliances when it comes to picking strats. Although I think at the moment, only xan DE is really over powered atm. But I think you need to either make both FR and DE easier to DC or CR/BS harder to stop - to avoid a concentration upon 2 strats. FI/CO is probably strong enough to allure some to go for it if you increase the power of vipers. FI/CO is hard to stop on ally eta too - but easy to stop ingal or with PL, so that is balanced I think.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Thanks for the feedback

I'm thinking to move phoenix init from 9 down to 7 to prefire xan De
At the same time probably lower its armour slightly

It will weaken a xan de option a lot, yet allows de teams to land terran, as ter de still prefires those nixes.

At the same time faking fi as de for xan stays untouched, so xan overall still is a good option

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Final Changes:

TER:
Phoenix:
Init -1
armour -2

Warfrigate:
Armour -2
Damage -1

Pegasus:
Emp Res -2

Centaur:
Emp Res -1

Vakyrie:
Emp Res -1

XAN:
Bomber:
Init+1

Ghost:
Init +1
Damage +2

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

i like to see how u gonna sort out alliance def when u pick some strat..

if u pick DE

stop FI easily with war frigs...
stop Co easily with xan FI
stop Fr with xan FI (despite if some1 comes with TER FR too)
stop De with wraiths
stop Cr easily with dragons
stop BS easily with spectres

if u pick FR

stop Fi with FR
stop CO with FI
stop FR with CR
stop DE with, well, u dont stop DE
stop CR with, well, u dont stop CR
stop BS with, well, its going to be very very hard stop big BS waves..

so... if u want FR and DE to be popular.. u have to make FR defensive ships a bit better..

but i sux looking at stats... so.. thats it..

good luck

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

My 2 cents.

Zik has only been removed because the stat maker doesn't know how to make steal ships decent, something shown by the steal ships left in the stats.

If you are going to go down the route of removing a race for a valid reason then Xan because cloak is always OP or Cat because emp prevents combat are far more valid choices.

This set really shows how m0 likes to play the game and will play to the strengths of his team at the detriment to others.

The other set(s) offered up were far better than this.

Enjoy your boring De fort round.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Stats maker 1: "stats maker 2's set is awful"
Stats maker 2: "stats maker 1's set is awful"

Thanks for your valuable input guys!

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I never said a word about m0rph's stats

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

and i never said it was aweful

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

My bad, I confused you with Kaiba.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

Is there a guide to show how the stats are define and how they impact/relate to each other?

Perhaps this would allow for a wider suggestion of stats if people could grasp the underlying concept and then be able to tweak accordingly.

Re: Zikonia has fallen (r67 stats proposal)
 

I'm not sure if you're looking for details on how this particular set of stats works or how stats in general are made. If the former, I can't help you. If the latter, this thread contains some useful information.