Planetarion Forums - [Football] Tottonhem Away

Ste · 22 Jan 2006, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

As far as I'm aware, the Heysel disaster had little to do with terraces vs seats.

It wouldn't have happened if it was all seater.

lokken · 22 Jan 2006, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

No, but it still makes your argument factually incorrect. You suggested that we had seating because it makes things more difficult for troublemakers, and this isn't true.

False dichotomy, and you're also trivialising the Hillsborough disaster.[/quote]

The facts are there are football fans you can't trust with standing areas, simply because quite a few pricks go to football matches, and the fact that there is rivalry involved makes it far more dangerous than any concert crowd. That's why in my opinion, standing areas will never return in any shape or form and probably shouldn't.

It's obvious why seating makes it easier to pick out troublemakers, simply because stewards/police can see where you're seated and pick you out - you aren't just standing in a mass of bodies and able to move without getting spotted. On top of this it's easier to record exactly who was seated where, inside the ground. This is why (and I think it's a good thing) that trouble has generally moved to outside the grounds between people who want trouble - it means people can actually go to football games without any problem. It's simply much easier to manage a crowd this way, especially when you consider that there are quite a number of fans who come to football pretty shitfaced to start with.

All-seating eliminates many problems within football grounds in general, and although it's less convenient for fans who want to get behind their team, I think it's better that we all put up with it simply because there are pricks who can **** it all up much worse without all seater. Even where there are areas of grounds where fans DO stand up anyway, it at least positions people in a set format of straight lines where anyone being a dick stands out like a sore thumb and can be taken out of the ground almost immediately cos you can't move through the crowd as each fan has been allocated a seat.

All I'd say is that if you know your club, you know where to be best positioned to have a family day out or to get behind your team proper.

People have claimed that grounds are quieter because of seating, and I don't think it's true. It's simply because since the premier league became awash with money, clubs have been forced to attract more fans and as a result, there are people who care less. There's probably quite a number of people who go to football matches just for the entertainment rather than to support anyone in particular - plenty of fans at scum won't renew simply because they were there for the premiership football, rather than anything else.

And as they have more money than the fans of old, clubs will continue to price out the fans that do happen to care, hence the atmosphere will get worse and worse. As long as people turn up, clubs are happy to hold their fans to ransom - a fantastic example is our cup tie with liverpool, where the club is charging £35 for a cup tie with Liverpool which will be televised on BBC on a sunday night. If there was one way to turn more die-hard supporters away, charging £35 was the best way to go about it. Birmingham are another club with a fantastic reputation for ripping off home and away fans.

The stupid thing is that the same people who advocate standing are the same people who put up with football clubs taking them for a ride week in week out, yet blatantly miss where the real problems lie. I absolutely despise that gutwrenching feeling at the ticket office when i hand over that excessive amount of cash for a football ticket. Some people have decided it's better to just walk away and not bother. I'd rather there was a mass campaign against ticket prices rather than against something as trivial as standing.

pig · 22 Jan 2006, 23:48

Can I just say, fulham are a shining example of how football should be in the future, a neutrals section it cracked me up when I went down there. Its a great idea and lets people sit and watch the match then you have the away end, home end hardcore and normal home end.

Opi · 22 Jan 2006, 23:56

I think having some teraces in stadiums is a pretty good option for separating the more active fans and the families/one-timers/etc.. I am not too worried about troublemakers, since there seems to be generally less trouble than some years ago. And for international competitions there is the possibility to equip the stadium with removable seats, like some german clubs do.

I prefer to stand during a match, has the added bonus of being cheaper.

Blastoderm · 23 Jan 2006, 13:10

I normally sit front row (Clock End or North Bank). Better view plus I can sit down. I'd get tired standing up through-out the whole 90 mins. (I'm with the all-seater bandwagon)

If some fans wants to stand up then it's really their choice. Why eject them god knows?

P.S. The Camp Nuo is something great if midge5 went there. He can sit down anywhere at the top and still get a great view even if there was a 6ft 6 bloke sitting in front of him.

Knight Theamion · 23 Jan 2006, 13:22

Why the **** are you lads planning games like it is some kind of military operation?

Me and Koen have visitted some Twente games (and when hockey allows it I'll be visitting more of them, that, and them not playing like shit in a bucket) and I've never had any trouble nor would you get in any if you just behave. But me and him being over 185 cm (him 188 i think, me 193) also helps a bit.

And standing is obligatory almost, except, as lokken said, it is a midfield shitfest.

ReligFree · 23 Jan 2006, 13:23

Just to lighten the mood a bit is it just me or is Claudio Reina and Rafa Benitez's relationship look more like father and son than player and manager? They do look very similar....

http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/...2rafa_pepe.jpg

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2006, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReligFree

Just to lighten the mood a bit is it just me or is Claudio Reina and Rafa Benitez's relationship look more like father and son than player and manager? They do look very similar....

http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/...2rafa_pepe.jpg

Claudio Reina, American midfielder, isn't Jose "Pepe" Reina, Spanish goalkeeper.

SeanG · 23 Jan 2006, 20:34

Theam, there is more football related violence in England than in Holland in general I believe. There its more important to plan how to get to/from the stadium and where to avoid.

KoeN · 23 Jan 2006, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanG

Theam, there is more football related violence in England than in Holland in general I believe. There its more important to plan how to get to/from the stadium and where to avoid.

i doubt that tbh.

it's for a reason we have a 'canal' and high fences in most stadiums here, for example (while in England you only have to jump over the boarding to reach the pitch).

pig · 23 Jan 2006, 23:26

your hooligans have no class, at least ours avoid the police. Also the dutch v english in a fight im sure the english would win.

KoeN · 23 Jan 2006, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

your hooligans have no class, at least ours avoid the police. Also the dutch v english in a fight im sure the english would win.

in contrary to the English, Dutch hooligans don't give a shit about their country.

(and this all isn't something to be proud of tbh, i'm glad we don't have those lunatics at the national team).

pig · 23 Jan 2006, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoeN

in contrary to the English, Dutch clubfans don't give a shit about their country.

(and this all isn't something to be proud of tbh, i'm glad we don't have those lunatics at the national team).

when were dutch fans banned from europe

1-0 to english hooligans

although they were scousers

and nothing to be proud of

and whats wrong with being proud about the national

and fighting is not big and not clever

KoeN · 23 Jan 2006, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

when were dutch fans banned from europe

1-0 to english hooligans

although they were scousers

and nothing to be proud of

and whats wrong with being proud about the national

and fighting is not big and not clever

i think Feyenoord fans were banned somewhere in 2002/2003. Dutch fans on the other side never ever fight. they just party, in their own retarded way.

here the national team is kind of a family-affair, not something to fight over.

pig · 23 Jan 2006, 23:52

thats the way it should be although the good thing about english hoolignaism is that its left the terraces and is organised, without fans being involved, although i remember when qpr came to villa this season ;/ a steward died and there were no police around