Planetarion Forums

All Systems Go · 27 May 2005, 11:38

Despite having a very British hatred for the French I always seem to hear good things about them from a societal viewpoint. I was wondering how does it compare to Britain in the following ways:

binge drinking
Apathy levels
Chav (or the French equvilent) levels, etc....

the British people to me seem to be generally stressed, lazy, emotionally detached, unbothered about teaching their kids manners and the like. How much is France like this? Is there any where in the (preferablly Western) world that is not totally apathetic and over dependent on the government to do things that they should be doing themselves e.g. raising their children?

Ste · 27 May 2005, 11:41

the french may not 'binge drink' but they drink a hell of a lot more alcohol than us.

wu_trax · 27 May 2005, 11:48

people are eually stupid everywhere, there is no hope, nowhere

@T&F that le pen guy is more or less finished by now, isnt he? at least you don't hear anything about him anymore

Nusselt · 27 May 2005, 12:03

Incidently can any of the other europeans tell me what the british or english/scottish/welsh/Nirish stereotypes are with the rest of europe? Apparently the french call us ros beef in a similar way to us calling them frogs, but roast beef isn't unsual is it?

All Systems Go · 27 May 2005, 12:11

Also is it more expensive in general raher than over here?
I'm wondering about our big cities Vs. their big cities, but more importantly our small villages Vs. their small villages (preferablly just outside of a big city)?

Are there actually any French people/ people who live in France on these forums?

Vaio · 27 May 2005, 12:11

I'll have more respect for the french if they vote no

All Systems Go · 27 May 2005, 12:20

Even if they are voting against their government rather than against the constitution?

Zar · 27 May 2005, 12:40

From what i've seen the French dont really have an equivalent to chavs. Probably their most hated residents are Moroccans, due to their "gangster" lifestyles.

Continental Europeans dont binge drink like we do, they can actually handle their drinks.

As for Apathy levels, the French don't seem to have general apathy. They complain about everything, especially concerns close to their heart, and even tho the British might see this as arrogance, i for one think it is a good thing. Protesting against things you sincerely disagree with usually ends up making a small difference rather than nothing. The British however, are content with being made lapdogs, slapped around and are generally content with being abused and bering made the bitch of the world (prices, government ignoring them etc..).

As for culture, the French have more (subjective) "culture". It might be a culture that the British disagree with, but at least it exists. I'm starting to wonder what british culture is these days, especially when you wander down the highstreet and see pikeys every ****ing corner.

Vaio · 27 May 2005, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Even if they are voting against their government rather than against the constitution?

No biggie

Deepflow · 27 May 2005, 13:31

after seeing question time in paris the other day, i really liked the look of french politics...

one of the people (a frenchman) asked a question "does Jacques know he is making a fool oh himself on world television?!"

it seemed as if this guy was within a whisker of going "fool? Hah!" a la blackadder. Which would have been the best thing ever.

wu_trax · 27 May 2005, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

And its not like Chirac is a lefty is it?

what else is he?i know, offically he is a center/right kind of guy, but for real he is further left-wing than most center/left parties in europe.
edit: and yes, he is a nationalist, but so are most french, no matter what political beliefes they have, france comes first. you british at least admit you are eu-sceptical, the french honestly seem to think they are good europeans. i dont trust them a single bit.

wu_trax · 27 May 2005, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

He's a ****ing right wing ****. Who is he more left wing than? The Republican party?!!!

by what standards? i dont see a lot of 'neoliberal' stuff going on in france
(also, see edit above)

All Systems Go · 27 May 2005, 14:50

I'm kind of getting fed up with Britain at the moment. Which country in the world do you think would be a nice place to live? Which would be the best country in W. Europe to live in?

Not to sound pessamistic but I have a feeling that the UK will be up there.

wu_trax · 27 May 2005, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Yes but you seem to be mistaking populist for centrist Mr Trax. Just because everyone is doing one thing doesn't mean its not right wing. Similarly just because Chirac isn't out and out trying to rob the French poor (although actually he is) that doesn't make him a centrist liberal. Its not a morally relative thing.

whats right and left anyway? it is a relative thing. 'left-wing' in the USA means something other than left-wing in a european country. left- and right-wing always depends on where the center is and that depends on the country. thats how i see it, anyway.

Structural Integrity · 27 May 2005, 18:05

Jaques Chirac made me laugh this morning. He pulled really weird faces in his television speech .

wu_trax · 27 May 2005, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Well in thast case whats the point of posting. Evryone can be left wing if you refuse to recognise traditional definitions of right and left. What you are saying is that everything you have posted above has been a complete waste of effort because anything can be right and anything can be left.

Broadly speaking though Socialism is left wing, anarchissm is even further left than that (although there is also right winf libertarianism. Liberalism which is not the same as the liberal democrats is centrist, as in the liberalism of Adam Smith. Conservatism is right wing and what we have in Europe is right of that and fascism is even further right. Of course there are further complications.

for the extremes you may be right, but the closer you get to the center the more depends on where that 'center' is and that depends on the country. at least economically chirac is pretty much left-wing by average european standards.he also is a nationalist, but as i said, so are most french so that doesnt really count.

edit i wonder whats going to happen when they vote no on sunday

Marilyn Manson · 27 May 2005, 19:05

No Country Vs. Country threads! It's in the rules! You goin' down bwoy!

Hope you like roleplaying, son.

Weeks · 27 May 2005, 21:45

The French have their chavs. I cant really say which country has the bestworst chavs.
They bing drink less, but drink wine daily.
I'm not sure how dependant on the government they are in general.
The quality of life generally seems better.
They seem a little more concerned about socialpolitical issues and the like.

But making generalisations makes your cerebral cortex cry.
Their cuisine is far better than ours though.

I spent 4 months in France.

Marilyn Manson · 27 May 2005, 23:12

Why do we need to define where Chirac is politically? The man is a **** and we should leave it at that.

Weeks · 27 May 2005, 23:16

He's better than Giscard.
I want to find out what he actually did as Mayor of Paris, and if those deeds will really land him in jail should he not get re-elected.

Marilyn Manson · 27 May 2005, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weeks

He's better than Giscard.

A sack of potatoes with a smily face painted on it in biro is better than Giscard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weeks

should he not get re-elected.

Don't worry, he won't be. In two years or so, we'll have Sarkozy. And he's a friend of Gordon Brown, and then everyone will be hating those two as the resident evil establishment figures.

Ste · 27 May 2005, 23:54

I just went for a drink with 5 french people.
The two french girls were absolutely stunning.
One lives opposite me... but unfortunately her bedroom is on the other side of the house

Marilyn Manson · 27 May 2005, 23:59

I've never known any person who attempted more international ****s as Ste. Have you ever actually shagged a British girl?

Ste · 28 May 2005, 00:02

I don't like the way you say "attempted". Do I really mention it that much?
And yes, plenty of british girls.

Marilyn Manson · 28 May 2005, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

Do I really mention it that much?

No, just whenever you talk about sex, it seems to be with a foreigner.

Ste · 28 May 2005, 00:06

well, they were more exciting.
if i don't mention the nationality then they were probably british.
I haven't slept with a non-english person since before easter. (unless you count my ex who is english but was born in Madrid and lived there for a few years...)

s|k · 28 May 2005, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nantoz

.... aswell as a cousin in the Boston Police Department.

Marilyn Manson · 28 May 2005, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

No, just whenever you talk about sex, it seems to be with a foreigner.

An interesting question which now arises is why s|k gave me pos rep for this post, whilst attempting to pose as Yahwe.

Stew · 28 May 2005, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

Do I really mention it that much?

Yes.

[TK:

]

Tomkat · 28 May 2005, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

Do I really mention it that much?

You reassure us that you're a hotblooded male a lot, yes.

Nodrog · 28 May 2005, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Well in thast case whats the point of posting. Evryone can be left wing if you refuse to recognise traditional definitions of right and left. What you are saying is that everything you have posted above has been a complete waste of effort because anything can be right and anything can be left.

Broadly speaking though Socialism is left wing, anarchissm is even further left than that (although there is also right winf libertarianism. Liberalism which is not the same as the liberal democrats is centrist, as in the liberalism of Adam Smith. Conservatism is right wing and what we have in Europe is right of that and fascism is even further right. Of course there are further complications.

This is an absurdly worthless scale; there isnt anything obvious that is actually changing as you move from left to right. It's as if you've collected up every political ideology and then arbitrarilly assigned each one to a point on a horizontal line. It would maybe make sense if the line was actually a steep parabola in 2D space with the vertical axis corresponding to liberty, but thats about it.

I'm going to rate animals using the 'clock' scale of measurement. Cats and pigeons are at 12 o clock, then we progress clockwise round through whales and fish at 2, and encounter eagles and hamsters at 5. The 'centrist' animals, ie the snakes, humans and komodo dragons are obviously at 6, then next come dinosaurs and penguins, before we reach the dolphins at 10, then back to the cats.

SYMM · 29 May 2005, 10:15

Well, if you're going to be so low as to bring it up, blue and mahogany, obviously. I thought better of you. And the richter scale is as good as any, am I right? (etc.)

roadrunner_0 · 29 May 2005, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

You reassure us that you're a hotblooded male a lot, yes.

he is just making sure that we can tell him apart from stew the metrosexual

Stew · 29 May 2005, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

he is just making sure that we can tell him apart from stew the metrosexual

I'm not really sure how to take that comment.

Tomkat · 29 May 2005, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew

I'm not really sure how to take that comment.

With a cock in your mouth and a dick up your arse, of course.

Hugin · 30 May 2005, 11:54

France:
They are so obsessed with being social perfect that they all seems gay.
Drinks wine, cider and liquer
Serious people.
I havent tasted sausages here.

England:
Loves football. Most are shaved on the head and are hooligan wannabies.
They enjoy the full day at the pub. Who go home when you can get your food there aswell.
Funny people.
Sausages is not that good, but ok when you get used to them.

And to add a few others in random order:

Denmark:
Eats red sausages with room-temperatured beer.
Cant speak normal, all of them are sreaming.
Makes good food.

Sweden:
Most of them are pretty much stupid.
Nice girls.
Loves to beat up english football stars :P
Tasty sausages

Finland:
Vodka. 'nuff said
Cant remember if I got any sausages.

Ze Germans:
They eat butter with bread, not the other way around.
Loves when half the pint is foam.
Country of the perfect sausages \o/

Holland:
Red district and drugs.
All of the duch people i've met are really nice.
Sausages are pretty OK, not bad at all.

Belgium:
Divided in a masculine (flemish) part and a gay(french) part.
Loves cycling of some strange reason.
Home of 1500 beers \o/
weird people.
I got about the same sausages as in Holland here.

Scotland:
they are always flashing with their kilts.
Home of the coolest instrument ever.
Nice country.
the people are pretty simulair to the english, even though they hate to admit it.
Sausages is not that good, but ok when you get used to them.

Wales:
Crazy people, they beat you up for no reason.
Funniest language ever (maybe thats because they beat ppl up?)
Sheepfarkers.
Sausages is not that good, but ok when you get used to them. Why the **** is brits obsessed in pigs :\

Ireland:
"Someone you never have met, is a new friend" Really nice people.
Very proud of their culture.
Guinness <3
About same sausages as in brittain.

Norway:
Home of the trolls and vikings \o/
Pretty cold people.
Nice girls.
Makes spirits at home

goooood Sausages.

Ive been in all of these countries for a fair share of time.
Love them all <3
And yes, sausages is the reason why I live

Ste · 30 May 2005, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugin

And yes, sausages is the reason why I live

Have you met MM? I think you two would get on quite well.

Nantoz · 30 May 2005, 15:37

Never would have thought Germany was the country of perfect cocks.
It seems I have still much to learn.
And damn right our girls are nice, aswell as our homebrew!

Nodrog · 30 May 2005, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Whilst I was merely quoting a vague recollection from A-level politics with a little bit of spin. Obviously I am aware of political compass distinctions between Economic and libertarian ideologies. But I think if we return to the phrase "Chirac is hardly a lefty" I think that can be understood by all. Of course its is just short hand for saying that:

"Chirac's policies and rhetoric fail to correspond to the ideals and policies exemplified by those groups claiming to to be Socialist or trade unionists. Neither do his actions self-consciously reflect the working class struggle agaisnt the bourgeoisie."

But it IS entirely relative. I see Chirac as being extremely left wing, but that's mainly because I view anyone left of the American Democrats as being moon people from a bizarro socialist netherworld which I dont understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

I like your analogy though and I broadly agree with your pooint, but I think if we are going to overly critique all political shorthand then we are going to get much longer threads. For instance "Britain vs France", Well what is Britain? What is France? That's like Blue vs E minor, Cheese vs Mahogany. What scale are we measuring it on blah blah blah.

This wouldnt be any less productive than most debates on the subject, and it might let people see how completely worthless the popular linguistic constructions of politics are. Debating using current political terminology is about as pointless as playing a game of chess where all pieces are the same colour.

Nusselt · 30 May 2005, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I view anyone left of the American Democrats as being moon people from a bizarro socialist netherworld which I dont understand.

Left in what sense? what social/economic factors make you side more easily with them? Not being pernicicktity but ever since the demise of political philosphy in the shaping of parties as presented to the public and the rise of brand politics i don't know where people stand anymore based on their name alone. Ive recently found out that the main australian 'left' party is the labour party, the main 'right' party is the...liberal party.

I mean how the **** does that work? Who the hell ruled australia the nazis?

Nodrog · 30 May 2005, 23:06

I would rate anyone more left economically than John Kerry as a raving socialist (this includes pretty much every mainstream politiician in the UK). 'Social' factors dont really matter - most politicians are statist to the extent that saying that one is 'worse' than another is silly.

That 'liberal = right' thing makes sense, since liberal is often used outside America to mean 'classical liberal' (in the Locke/Jefferson sense), rather than socialism-lite.

The Nazi's were extremely left wing by any sensible definition of the term.

wu_trax · 31 May 2005, 09:00

heh, and i guess t&f sees the Nazi as pretty far right wing, because they were such authorians (if that is a word).
so Chirac is eihter left- or rightwing, because, apparently, he belives in massive state-interventions, only depending on who i talk to?