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28 Dec 2006, 20:04
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#201
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Victim of Marriage
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
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Re: A Plane Problem
Can't we all just get along...
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
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28 Dec 2006, 20:07
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#202
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Can't we all just get along...
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not if your wife's on the same bench ...
__________________
hi
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28 Dec 2006, 20:07
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#203
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
You know, that I know, that you know you will seem as though you are contradicting yourself if you answer the question correctly, which is why you are avoiding it.
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I thought I told you to point out what was wrong with it, if you considered it to be incorrect. Since you appear to be stuck over an irrelevent issue, I must assume that you're just being a jackass.
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28 Dec 2006, 20:29
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#204
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You love me really
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 342
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I thought I told you to point out what was wrong with it, if you considered it to be incorrect. Since you appear to be stuck over an irrelevent issue, I must assume that you're just being a jackass.
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I can't point that out just yet, I haven't had enough time to take a look at it in greater detail.
Your turn.
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28 Dec 2006, 20:35
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#205
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
I can't point that out just yet, I haven't had enough time to take a look at it in greater detail.
Your turn.
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I don't need a turn. As I said, I'm not arguing with you. I'm just waiting for you to come out with something to support your proposition. There's nothing to reply to.
Oh, and as a rule of thumb, having the basis of your argument being "I don't know, I haven't looked at it in enough detail" when you're dealing with a basic logical argument is not a good place to be.
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28 Dec 2006, 20:47
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#206
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You love me really
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 342
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I don't need a turn. As I said, I'm not arguing with you. I'm just waiting for you to come out with something to support your proposition. There's nothing to reply to.
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I want to make sure I interpret your explanation correctly. Can you please clarify the following for me:
Is the frictional force caused by the wheel on the track, velocity dependent or not?
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28 Dec 2006, 20:53
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#207
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: A Plane Problem
All, some, or none of it can be. Why does the frictional force have to have one unique origin?
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28 Dec 2006, 21:25
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#208
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Victim of Marriage
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
not if your wife's on the same bench ...
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Again, please stop trying to flame until you grow some sense of how to do it properly. I realize you probably like being seen as an ass, but you must realize your style is comparable to that of a 5 year old.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
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28 Dec 2006, 21:26
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#209
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Again, please stop trying to flame until you grow some sense of how to do it properly. I realize you probably like being seen as an ass
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no one can miss your wife's ass ...
__________________
hi
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28 Dec 2006, 21:28
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#210
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Victim of Marriage
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
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Re: A Plane Problem
I almost made a post about your inability to use the quote system properly, but you fixed it, good job ace.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
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28 Dec 2006, 22:17
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#211
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You love me really
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 342
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
All, some, or none of it can be. Why does the frictional force have to have one unique origin?
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You have to know what the origin is, and how it is affected by other factors, if you want to model something effectively.
Everyone sees that you incorrectly beleive rolling friction to be dependent on velocity, when it isn't.
I will no longer be posting in this thread, because it has become a boring game in which you skirt around admitting you made a blunder (knowingly or unknowingly) when everone else knows you did.
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28 Dec 2006, 22:22
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#212
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
You have to know what the origin is, and how it is affected by other factors, if you want to model something effectively.
Everyone sees that you incorrectly beleive rolling friction to be dependent on velocity, when it isn't.
I will no longer be posting in this thread, because it has become a boring game in which you skirt around admitting you made a blunder (knowingly or unknowingly) when everone else knows you did.
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don't presume to talk for 'everyone'.
All i know is that you are a boring ****
__________________
hi
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28 Dec 2006, 22:52
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#213
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break it down!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
but you must realize your style is comparable to that of a 5 year old.
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You must realize that your wife is comparable to wikipedia, they've both had millions of entries!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I almost made a post about your inability to use the quote system properly, but you fixed it, good job ace.
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your wife can't post properly because her fingers are too fat to use a keyboard!
__________________
I put the sex in dyslexia!
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28 Dec 2006, 23:19
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#214
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the Sacred Pervert
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,492
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Re: A Plane Problem
The wheels and axles will break.
Thus the introduction of Jet and Gas Turbine Technology for vertical take-off and landing.
__________________
"....some might say, we will find a brighter day...."
-Oasis
Veneratio | Insomnia | F-Crew | Subh
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28 Dec 2006, 23:44
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#215
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Motherfracker
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,985
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Re: A Plane Problem
If it is a VTOL plane, then yes it will take off!
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28 Dec 2006, 23:51
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#216
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: A Plane Problem
What if just in front of the plane there's a series of black holes which gradually curve upwards at an ever-increasing rate in strength?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Dec 2006, 00:01
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#217
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: A Plane Problem
Ah but what if the treadmill is underwater and the plane is actually a submarine?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Dec 2006, 00:02
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#218
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
You have to know what the origin is, and how it is affected by other factors, if you want to model something effectively.
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Actually, it doesn't. It doesn't matter a jot if the major cause of friction is the wheels on the tarmac, the wheels on the axel or someone throwing cows at the plane, as long as it scales as a linear function of velocity, plus a constant. A force of one newton acting in the same direction at the same point will have the same no matter the source. In fact, the point of action doesn't matter here either, as we don't care about moments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnidman
when everone else knows you did.
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Everyone doesn't seem to understand GCSE level maths, including you; I wouldn't be quite so quick to proclaim membership as a good thing.
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29 Dec 2006, 00:07
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#219
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What if just in front of the plane there's a series of black holes which gradually curve upwards at an ever-increasing rate in strength?
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Black holes are everywhere.
__________________
hi
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29 Dec 2006, 00:17
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#220
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Black holes are everywhere.
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Okay but what if the plane has an infinitely powerful anti-gravity generator onboard and is made of papier mache?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Dec 2006, 00:23
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#221
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Motherfracker
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,985
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Re: A Plane Problem
If you jump to hyperspace in the 14th dimension you can avoid Blackholes altogether
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29 Dec 2006, 00:24
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#222
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneED
If you jump to hyperspace in the 14th dimension you can avoid Blackholes altogether
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That's actually a myth, like the 10% of the brains thing.
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29 Dec 2006, 00:35
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#223
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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Re: A Plane Problem
Jesus H Christ.
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
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29 Dec 2006, 01:14
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#224
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: A Plane Problem
The H stands for his middle name which is Horatio. Little known fact.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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29 Dec 2006, 02:13
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#225
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the Sacred Pervert
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,492
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Re: A Plane Problem
I thought it was Hernandez..
__________________
"....some might say, we will find a brighter day...."
-Oasis
Veneratio | Insomnia | F-Crew | Subh
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29 Dec 2006, 02:48
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#226
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Darling
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 890
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Re: A Plane Problem
What causes lift as supposed to forward thrust is the passing of air over the airfoils.
If the plane is stationary on the "runway" but thrusting forward, it will still fail to take off as the air around it is not moving at any significant speed.
I do apologize for the fact that this point will have been made many times before.
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29 Dec 2006, 02:49
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#227
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Giddy little...
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 145
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Re: A Plane Problem
enjoyed this thread, maybe not an amazing concentration of inteligence but a pretty fair show in the "physics jokes" department.
(with MrL_JaKiri to the death on all physics issues from this day forward!)
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29 Dec 2006, 02:50
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#228
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Giddy little...
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 145
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by BesigedB
What causes lift as supposed to forward thrust is the passing of air over the airfoils.
If the plane is stationary on the "runway" but thrusting forward, it will still fail to take off as the air around it is not moving at any significant speed.
I do apologize for the fact that this point will have been made many times before.
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read the thread dude, its a rollercoaster of up's and downs where you end up agreeing wholeheartedly with MrL_JaKiri.
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29 Dec 2006, 03:01
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#229
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Darling
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 890
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Tyrant
read the thread dude, its a rollercoaster of up's and downs where you end up agreeing wholeheartedly with MrL_JaKiri.
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- The plane will take off on a conventional length runway that happens to be a conveyor belt, as the wheels will spin faster.
- An other plane being held stationary on a theoretical treadmill will not.
That's how I understand this thread to have concluded.
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29 Dec 2006, 09:14
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#230
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: A Plane Problem
Conclusion #2 has been plucked out of satan's own arse.
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29 Dec 2006, 12:02
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#231
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Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
Posts: 5,300
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm not sure if a thread where (at least initially) half the participants don't seem to understand how the wheels of a plane work is a good candidate for world-implosion via excessive concentrations of intelligence.
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Then perhaps the vast amounts of Jakiri's intelligence and others' stupidity will make the world spin around at infinite speed and break down under centrifugal forces. It's the same concept as when you tie a piece of buttered toast on the back of a cat to make anti-gravity.
__________________
"Yay"
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29 Dec 2006, 18:45
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#232
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break it down!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Then perhaps the vast amounts of Jakiri's intelligence and others' stupidity will make the world spin around at infinite speed and break down under centrifugal forces. It's the same concept as when you tie a piece of buttered toast on the back of a cat to make anti-gravity.
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The cat still lands on its feet, so the moral of the story is - always tie your buttered toast to a cat so that it doesn't fall butter side down if you drop it!
__________________
I put the sex in dyslexia!
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29 Dec 2006, 18:53
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#233
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Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
Posts: 5,300
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
The cat still lands on its feet, so the moral of the story is - always tie your buttered toast to a cat so that it doesn't fall butter side down if you drop it!
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but...
but...
That would make the cat dirty!
And no one likes a dirty pussy.
__________________
"Yay"
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29 Dec 2006, 19:19
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#234
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Victim of Marriage
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
The cat still lands on its feet, so the moral of the story is - always tie your buttered toast to a cat so that it doesn't fall butter side down if you drop it!
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I've seen cat's not land on there feet, and there wasn't a piece of buttered toast taped to there backside.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
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29 Dec 2006, 20:02
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#235
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: A Plane Problem
I have a question!!!
Someone asked me this at a party last night. It was rocking.
Imagine that a helicopter has an infinite amount of fuel. If it takes off vertically (ignore air movement etc), then stays hovering for 12 hours or so, will the earth rotate beneath it, so when it lands it will land in a different place?
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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29 Dec 2006, 20:05
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#236
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: A Plane Problem
using common logic, not fysics, I'd say he'd land in the same place.
The aircolomn he's hovering in moves with the earth as it goes, was it not the case then going to the states from the UK would be cheaper/more expensive then vice versa because of the earth movement, this is clearly not the case, hence I apply this logic also to your question.
The logic is not robust and I think even flawed, but the answer is I think correct.
__________________
Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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29 Dec 2006, 20:11
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#237
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: A Plane Problem
I'm staying out of this one, except to say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
was it not the case then going to the states from the UK would be cheaper/more expensive then vice versa because of the earth movement, this is clearly not the case
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_stream
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29 Dec 2006, 20:15
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#238
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: A Plane Problem
Oh I am wrong on that one!
However, I still think the helicopter will stay above the same spot. If you want to see the earth's movement TomKat I suggest you build a Pendulum of Foucault.
__________________
Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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29 Dec 2006, 20:16
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#239
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: A Plane Problem
Clearly they would have landed on their feet if there HAD been a piece of buttered toast taped to their backside.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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29 Dec 2006, 20:19
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#240
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I have a question!!!
Someone asked me this at a party last night. It was rocking.
Imagine that a helicopter has an infinite amount of fuel. If it takes off vertically (ignore air movement etc), then stays hovering for 12 hours or so, will the earth rotate beneath it, so when it lands it will land in a different place?
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Even ignoring the air movement, the helicopter would probably only move imperceptably as the helicopter would still be held in its place by gravity. Gravity isn't affected by not being attached to the ground.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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29 Dec 2006, 20:22
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#241
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Even ignoring the air movement, the helicopter would probably only move imperceptably as the helicopter would still be held in its place by gravity. Gravity isn't affected by not being attached to the ground.
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Oh god help me
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Dec 2006, 20:27
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#242
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Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
Posts: 5,300
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Oh god help me
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Surely, didn't you know that everything in your house is held in place by gravitystrings?!?! How else would it stay in place while we are flying through space at a gazillion miles per hour?!
__________________
"Yay"
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29 Dec 2006, 20:40
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#243
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: A Plane Problem
infinite fuel = infinite weight.
The thing wont take off
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29 Dec 2006, 20:46
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#244
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
infinite fuel = infinite weight.
The thing wont take off
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Wouldn't it then fall through the ground to the Earths core and with it's giant weight have such a massive gravatational pull that the universe would be reabsorbed into one dense mass?
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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29 Dec 2006, 20:47
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#245
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Wouldn't it then fall through the ground to the Earths core and with it's giant weight have such a massive gravatational pull that the universe would be reabsorbed into one dense mass?
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.... yes... sort of. The earth would essentially be pulled into the helicopter and then onwards into one big mass.
... but it still wouldnt take off.
The question itself is stupid anyway
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29 Dec 2006, 22:06
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#246
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Victim of Marriage
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
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Re: A Plane Problem
I'd just like to point out....WE'RE ON THE 6TH PAGE FOR ****ING OUT LOUD.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
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29 Dec 2006, 22:46
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#247
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
infinite fuel = infinite weight.
The thing wont take off
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Don't be an ass
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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29 Dec 2006, 22:47
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#248
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Don't be an ass
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Seriously tk if you'd manage to phrase that question poorer I'm pretty sure god himself would have come down from heaven and dropped an infinitely heavy rock he couldn't lift onto you.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Dec 2006, 23:57
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#249
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: A Plane Problem
Or have caused him to lose his hair.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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30 Dec 2006, 04:31
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#250
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Darling
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 890
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Re: A Plane Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I have a question!!!
Someone asked me this at a party last night. It was rocking.
Imagine that a helicopter has an infinite amount of fuel. If it takes off vertically (ignore air movement etc), then stays hovering for 12 hours or so, will the earth rotate beneath it, so when it lands it will land in a different place?
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I think that's pretty much the same question as "I jump up vertically in a train, do I land in the same place?"
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