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Unread 29 May 2007, 21:51   #1
Yahwe
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Mmorpgs

Advise me.

So far I have found WOW to be a jolly if repetitive romp. I have, perhaps perversely, mostly enjoyed the art of making money (the auction house is dell-boy's wet dream) and assasinating unsuspecting players (pvp server + mage + sneaking up on people already distracted fighting a monster).

It has been despite the nay sayers quite fun.

PC games in any other format appear quite dead, and are no doubt incapable of competing in a capitalist marketplace. Gone are the heady days of masters of orion 2, baldurs gate and dungeon master ...

So now I ask where next?
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Unread 29 May 2007, 21:56   #2
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
mostly enjoyed the art of making money (the auction house is dell-boy's wet dream)


We seem to have something in common. How much did you make? I made about 3000g pre expansion. Actually probably more like 4500 but I liked to buy stupid shit for my alts and friends.


I would say wait for Conan, Warhammer and Pirates of the Seven Seas. If you like drama you could try Eve-online. I mean drama like in the early PA rounds and then even more intense. Game in itself is rather boring though in my opinion.
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Unread 29 May 2007, 22:20   #3
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Re: Mmorpgs

I've been playing EVE-Online for three and a half years now and it's still very enjoyable (and will continue to be). It's an mmorpg situated in space where you fly around in your ship (frigate, interceptor, battleship, etc.) and either do missions or fight against other players.

If you like fiddling around on the market you'll find EVE's ingame market very interesting as prices etc. are decided by the players (except for skillbooks you buy from NPCs). If there's a war raging between player alliances (which it is all the time), demand for ships etc. will go up and the market will adjust accordingly. Kinda interesting.

The PVP is as real as you can get it. It's nothing like WoW's wannabe "pvp" where you don't lose your stuff when you die. By attacking another person in EVE you risk your ship and everything you've fitted on it, but if you win you can loot his wreck and get some valuable items.

EVE is the biggest mmorpg in the world in terms of players on one server. I think there's about 200 000 characters in the game now and there's usually always around 30 000 logged into the server at once. So there's no divided servers or any shit like that which WoW uses. They have one more server though, but it's for China only (due to their weird laws I think).

Also worth to say that a lot of people who used to play Planetarion find EVE enjoyable.
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Unread 29 May 2007, 22:29   #4
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
The PVP is as real as you can get it. It's nothing like WoW's wannabe "pvp" where you don't lose your stuff when you die. By attacking another person in EVE you risk your ship and everything you've fitted on it, but if you win you can loot his wreck and get some valuable items.
Yeah man the PvP is so good, I mean you can just like warp away during battle how cool is that?!
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Unread 29 May 2007, 22:34   #5
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Re: Mmorpgs

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Originally Posted by _Kila_
Yeah man the PvP is so good, I mean you can just like warp away during battle how cool is that?!
If you had people warping away from you, maybe you should fit a warp scrambler? Sometimes people fit warp core stabilizers (makes it harder to get scrambled) and there's not much to do about that unless you drop an interdiction bubble which stops anything.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 01:07   #6
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
If you had people warping away from you, maybe you should fit a warp scrambler? Sometimes people fit warp core stabilizers (makes it harder to get scrambled) and there's not much to do about that unless you drop an interdiction bubble which stops anything.
That all went right over my head as I've never played EVE, just seen and heard about it, looks crap
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Unread 30 May 2007, 01:15   #7
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I've been playing EVE-Online for three and a half years now and it's still very enjoyable (and will continue to be). It's an mmorpg situated in space where you fly around in your ship (frigate, interceptor, battleship, etc.) and either do missions or fight against other players.

If you like fiddling around on the market you'll find EVE's ingame market very interesting as prices etc. are decided by the players (except for skillbooks you buy from NPCs). If there's a war raging between player alliances (which it is all the time), demand for ships etc. will go up and the market will adjust accordingly. Kinda interesting.

The PVP is as real as you can get it. It's nothing like WoW's wannabe "pvp" where you don't lose your stuff when you die. By attacking another person in EVE you risk your ship and everything you've fitted on it, but if you win you can loot his wreck and get some valuable items.

EVE is the biggest mmorpg in the world in terms of players on one server. I think there's about 200 000 characters in the game now and there's usually always around 30 000 logged into the server at once. So there's no divided servers or any shit like that which WoW uses. They have one more server though, but it's for China only (due to their weird laws I think).

Also worth to say that a lot of people who used to play Planetarion find EVE enjoyable.
Eve is probably, in some ways, the best MMORPG out there, simply because it rejects the route that Everquest took and WoW improved upon and develops on other strengths.

Unfortunately, it's pretty flawed in other ways; the game in Empire is very dull, where the grind to get bigger and better ships is even more transparent, and stupid, than raiding for items is in WoW. 0.0 PvP, on the other hand, is turning into Capships online (with it taking 8 months or so to get into one from a standing start, and taking enormously large quantities of isk for the average, Empire, player).
Considering the premise of the game is based upon a free-form PvP sandbox with capturable territory CCP, the makers of the game, are both remarkably incompetent and remarkably biased. Earlier this year, a developer was caught spawning a number of T2 BPOs (blueprint originals, which let you make unlimited number of the thing it is a blueprint for, as opposed to BPCs, which have finite runs. Tier 2 gear is the most powerful gear players can make, and until recently were basically a license to print money). He was also a high-up in his alliance, and ran their capital fleet for a time. He was not fired, or even censured; and right now, there's another scandal about the same alliance having disproportionately powerful access to the GMs (amongst other issues of misconduct), with a volunteer ISD member (ISD run roleplaying events, which are both railroaded and rigged, and report on events in the Eve world) supposedly being banned from the game by having the audacity to be near one of said alliance's capital ships whilst a battle was taking place.

It's a sad statement about the world of MMORPGs that this is by some distance the best one. Very steep learning curve though.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 11:16   #8
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Considering the premise of the game is based upon a free-form PvP sandbox with capturable territory CCP, the makers of the game, are both remarkably incompetent and remarkably biased. Earlier this year, a developer was caught spawning a number of T2 BPOs (blueprint originals, which let you make unlimited number of the thing it is a blueprint for, as opposed to BPCs, which have finite runs. Tier 2 gear is the most powerful gear players can make, and until recently were basically a license to print money). He was also a high-up in his alliance, and ran their capital fleet for a time. He was not fired, or even censured; and right now, there's another scandal about the same alliance having disproportionately powerful access to the GMs (amongst other issues of misconduct), with a volunteer ISD member (ISD run roleplaying events, which are both railroaded and rigged, and report on events in the Eve world) supposedly being banned from the game by having the audacity to be near one of said alliance's capital ships whilst a battle was taking place.
Is this paragraph meant to be written in English?
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Unread 30 May 2007, 11:19   #9
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Is this paragraph meant to be written in English?
The grammar and syntax is within normal english bounds, all of the words are either standard english or abbreviations which I have expanded upon (with the exception of BPC (blueprint copy, but I explain what it is, so what it means is fairly inconsequential) and GM (a standard term in RPGs and the like)).

So yes.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 19:49   #10
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The grammar and syntax is within normal english bounds
I hate supporting gordon but that's just not true.

You over use commas. You scattergun them in whenever you feel you've typed too many words.

Also in defense of gordon he was mocking the inpenetrable technical language ...

(i need a lie down)
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Unread 30 May 2007, 22:24   #11
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Considering the premise of the game is based upon a free-form PvP sandbox with capturable territory CCP, the makers of the game, are both remarkably incompetent and remarkably biased. Earlier this year, a developer was caught spawning a number of T2 BPOs (blueprint originals, which let you make unlimited number of the thing it is a blueprint for, as opposed to BPCs, which have finite runs. Tier 2 gear is the most powerful gear players can make, and until recently were basically a license to print money). He was also a high-up in his alliance, and ran their capital fleet for a time. He was not fired, or even censured; and right now, there's another scandal about the same alliance having disproportionately powerful access to the GMs (amongst other issues of misconduct), with a volunteer ISD member (ISD run roleplaying events, which are both railroaded and rigged, and report on events in the Eve world) supposedly being banned from the game by having the audacity to be near one of said alliance's capital ships whilst a battle was taking place.
(the pedantic hunter becomes the pedantic hunted am i rite?!)
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Unread 30 May 2007, 23:22   #12
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Re: Mmorpgs

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
(the pedantic hunter becomes the pedantic hunted am i rite?!)
No?

This is a seriously retarded series of posts.
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Unread 29 May 2007, 22:26   #13
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Re: Mmorpgs

starcraft 2!
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Unread 29 May 2007, 22:32   #14
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Re: Mmorpgs

they should make one where you can go out to sea and be a pirate!
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Unread 29 May 2007, 22:35   #15
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Re: Mmorpgs

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Originally Posted by All Systems Go
they should make one where you can go out to sea and be a pirate!
Pirates of the Burning Sea, perhaps?
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Unread 29 May 2007, 22:50   #16
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Red face Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Pirates of the Burning Sea, perhaps?

That's the one I ment
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Unread 30 May 2007, 00:00   #17
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Re: Mmorpgs

Warhammer's RvR [realm vs realm] looks promising.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 00:27   #18
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Re: Mmorpgs

I heard that planetarion game was pretty neat, can anyone confirm/deny?
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Unread 30 May 2007, 00:57   #19
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Re: Mmorpgs

Deny.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 01:08   #20
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Re: Mmorpgs

I'd like to try playing Lord of the Rings online.


Eve is hard to get into, and I played it for 2 years and was a better player than Nadar too so I know more
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Unread 30 May 2007, 01:53   #21
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Re: Mmorpgs

As you seem to be quite a fan of Star Wars, might I suggest Star Wars Galaxies. I've been playing the 14 day trial for a few days and am rather enjoying it, and it's my first mmorpg (except for the trial of EVE i played and got bored of before the trial expired)
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Unread 30 May 2007, 19:50   #22
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
As you seem to be quite a fan of Star Wars, might I suggest Star Wars Galaxies. I've been playing the 14 day trial for a few days and am rather enjoying it, and it's my first mmorpg (except for the trial of EVE i played and got bored of before the trial expired)
Thanks Dave

Genuinely

(i can't believe anyone wrote something helpful rather than bitching about eve online ...)
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Unread 31 May 2007, 16:21   #23
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Thanks Dave

Genuinely

(i can't believe anyone wrote something helpful rather than bitching about eve online ...)
Then let me attempt to write something useful.

EVE Online is a very pretty game, you wouldn't have thought flying through endless solar systems was actually beautiful in a way but it is although i'm not sure you buy a game for its scenic tours.

To begin with it is quite interesting although after a few days gets a touch repetitive as you are limited by your skill points (although they have fixed this since I had my trial). I think EVE can be good fun but only if you get past the first few weeks grind. If you are set up with a corporation that will help you get out of empire space asap you will get the most out of the massive complexity of EVE.
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Unread 31 May 2007, 19:07   #24
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Then let me attempt to write something useful.

EVE Online is a very pretty game, you wouldn't have thought flying through endless solar systems was actually beautiful in a way but it is although i'm not sure you buy a game for its scenic tours.
i quite like just running/riding around in wow
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Unread 30 May 2007, 01:56   #25
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Re: Mmorpgs

The developers and the event team (ISD) have been awfully biased and helpful towards BoB (Band of Brothers - an alliance) indeed. Before the great war kicked off, we found out BoB was camping a solar system in our home and wondered wtf that was all about. Then we found out it was an event going on in there and funnily enough only BoB (who lives on the other side of the universe) had heard about it

It's a great game except for that though. Like you said, Empire life is damn dull and everyone should get into the PVP aspect a.s.a.p. Yes, there's some grinding towards bigger ships, but to be honest, flying small ships is a LOT more fun than flying big ships. Many new players complain about it taking so long to get into a battleship (2-3 months), but when they get there they'll wonder why they were in such a hurry.

It's a damn complex game and hard to understand, thus it has a quite mature playerbase (with some bad seeds ofc). It's nothing like WoW with it's 13 years old player running around screaming "lawl u nub!1". Many people quit before their trial period expires because they think they can learn how to play in such a short time (lo Dave). I've played for 4 years now and I'm still learning every day


Kila: How can you comment when you've never played it?

KaneED: You had more experience in the game than me as you joined in the start when I joined like 6-7 months into the game
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Unread 30 May 2007, 11:00   #26
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Kila: How can you comment when you've never played it?
I commented on one feature that I knew of, I didn't comment on the rest of the game (which I think is pretty dull as I killed some stuff for my brother on his account some time ago, so tedious )
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Unread 30 May 2007, 11:13   #27
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
I commented on one feature that I knew of, I didn't comment on the rest of the game (which I think is pretty dull as I killed some stuff for my brother on his account some time ago, so tedious )
I hear that you get to DOCK IN STATIONS in Eve!
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Unread 30 May 2007, 07:30   #28
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Re: Mmorpgs

I'd definitely agree with the assertion that "small ships are more fun than big ships"; I fly a Stiletto for the most part, although I have been known to get involved with Covops/Recons/Dictors and the like.

Unfortunately, in most battles against BoB small ships are useless, as one of their titans will be doomsdaying you post haste if there's a chance they'll even kill one of you. Either that or they'll send in other supercapitals. Between that and the lag it makes most large battles an exercise in frustration, but occasionally everything will go smoothly (in terms of lag, at least) and the potential of the game really shines through.

In BREAKING EVE NEWS, there's been a devblog put up about the recent allegations. It reminds me very much of the Hutton report, except they also throw in a DDOS allegation (it's always a good idea for a company to threaten to sue its customers, I hear). I won't have said that I expected better, but I did hope for better, especially given that they actually paid attention to the Titan Manifesto.

In other news, Kieron remains the last person who should be the spokesman for any company ever, given the amount that he lies, and contradicts himself.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 09:12   #29
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I'd definitely agree with the assertion that "small ships are more fun than big ships"; I fly a Stiletto for the most part, although I have been known to get involved with Covops/Recons/Dictors and the like.
I love my Stiletto. I'm pretty damn specialized in Minmatar ships and guns, so compared to many others, my Stiletto is more than the normal interceptor. I used to hunt people using bots/macros while npcing. They always fly a Raven and since they're missile (torpedoes) based I have no problem flying faster than their torpedoes. These bots are designed to log off at once anyone enters local though, so catching them are very damn hard. I managed to catch one of them once and was doing well at taking him down by myself. Suddenly he opened fired and started nossing me (nosferatur, capacitor drainer) and jamming (so I couldn't lock). I was like 'WTF this is not a macro, there's a player behind this ship!" and ran like **** when I realized he had fitted cruise missiles as well (which is faster than my ship). I got out on 90% structure or something
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Unfortunately, in most battles against BoB small ships are useless, as one of their titans will be doomsdaying you post haste if there's a chance they'll even kill one of you. Either that or they'll send in other supercapitals. Between that and the lag it makes most large battles an exercise in frustration, but occasionally everything will go smoothly (in terms of lag, at least) and the potential of the game really shines through.
Yeah, there's no way you can tank a Titan's doomsday in a ceptor I hate large fleet battles and try avoiding them as much as possible (not that it's been a problem since I don't have time joining in on large ops). The introduction of Titans totally ruined large fleet battles. They were made to decrease the size of fleets, but funnily enough the fleets just got even bigger than before (since the Titans doomsday can be tanked anyway).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
In BREAKING EVE NEWS, there's been a devblog put up about the recent allegations. It reminds me very much of the Hutton report, except they also throw in a DDOS allegation (it's always a good idea for a company to threaten to sue its customers, I hear). I won't have said that I expected better, but I did hope for better, especially given that they actually paid attention to the Titan Manifesto.
Have you read the CAOD forum section of eve-o today? Seems like there's a lot of drama going on, so better find the popcorn. There's a thread about GoonSwarm disbanding, but I don't really believe it since it didn't come from the CEO. Vile Rat (in post #31) outed himself as a BoB spy which would be damn funny if the disbanding was just a joke
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
In other news, Kieron remains the last person who should be the spokesman for any company ever, given the amount that he lies, and contradicts himself.
Agree. He's been commenting way too much on the issues regarding CCP giving favors to BoB. He has even commented on the investigations, something he should never do if he wants them to be seen as credible. I think Arkanon (leader of Internal Affairs) might be influenced by such people as Kieron.

Which alliance are you in? I'm in Morsus Mihi (some ex-planetarion corps there (hirr (my corp) and 4s).
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Unread 30 May 2007, 09:41   #30
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Yeah, there's no way you can tank a Titan's doomsday in a ceptor I hate large fleet battles and try avoiding them as much as possible (not that it's been a problem since I don't have time joining in on large ops). The introduction of Titans totally ruined large fleet battles. They were made to decrease the size of fleets, but funnily enough the fleets just got even bigger than before (since the Titans doomsday can be tanked anyway).
There's no way you can tank Doomsdays reliably in anything that wasn't affected by the cap ship HP buff. Single DD, BCs/BS can do it relatively easily. Double DD, it's tough but possible.

Triple/Quadruple? No chance. As you say, their anti-blobbing measure is causing more blobs than it stops, and if anything removes the concept of the mid-sized gang, which the game was really suited for.

Supercaps in general are the problem. There should be no such thing as an invincible ship, even ignoring the other bullshit involved with them (like POS bowling).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Which alliance are you in? I'm in Morsus Mihi (some ex-planetarion corps there (hirr (my corp) and 4s).
Goonfleet (which isn't disbanding, and Vile Rat isn't a spy. Or at least, if he is then he's done some complicated double bluff, or he just likes moderating our forums which is what he's been doing for the past few hours). How does the North look from your perspective, because it looks pretty terrible from where we are - D2 seemed just just give up and die, which is something of a pity given their status as one of the superpowers only a few months ago.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 10:28   #31
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
How does the North look from your perspective, because it looks pretty terrible from where we are - D2 seemed just just give up and die, which is something of a pity given their status as one of the superpowers only a few months ago.
To put it like this: D2 are D2's worst enemy. It amazes me that an alliance like that can be so crippled when they could have taken on all the attackers alone!

D2 has been utter shit the whole war. It's not their fighting that has been a problem, but their communication with allies. When D2 moved to Fountain the told no one, we only found out through EVE-O and moved south to assist after that. D2 continued with their no-communication-strategy and never told us about their operations.

When everyone went back north, MM moved to Fountain to cause havoc amongst the BoB pets, which we successfully did. Not that it mattered much in the large scale, but we managed to get MC and other forces' attention a few times which was the main goal all along (to distract them from their attack in the north). After about 2 weeks we went back to the north to help defend D2 which by then seemed to have given up on everything. MM took over the command of the northern forces as of a few weeks ago and things improved quickly, but probably way too late.

Damn D2. They're the single reason for why the whole war seems lost at the moment. They have a massive capital fleet and financial backbone, but they simply won't use it. We can't really give up on them either, who knows, maybe they eventually will get their guts together.

Maybe a moderator should pull out the off-topic posts from mainly me and Jakiri as it's more of a discussion about a game rather than advices for which games to play, and create a new thread?
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Unread 30 May 2007, 08:24   #32
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Re: Mmorpgs

Oh yeah, capital ships (really big ****ing ships) ruined the game completely and made it a game of hours of camping and transporting to get something done.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 09:50   #33
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Re: Mmorpgs

I've quitted Eve for the second time some months ago but I read the eve forums almost dailly, the soap opera is an incredible entertaining read.

give them hell goons fofofofo
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Unread 30 May 2007, 10:09   #34
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Re: Mmorpgs

LOTRO is good if you can get with a good guild because it's mainly story/environment driven so it gives you a point in doing things and I don't find you have to spend 10 years getting to a decent level. Even if you're new and play couple hours a day you can reach level 10 (where the characters become a lot more fun) in a few days.

Personally I'm playing on a rp server (no idiots because you can report fools) and am at level 11, I've decided to wait a couple of weeks to play and now that I have a much better comp I will resume playing after this round of pa.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 11:06   #35
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Re: Mmorpgs

You're a bit like my grandmother. She said the Internet was dull
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Unread 30 May 2007, 11:11   #36
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Re: Mmorpgs

Pics please.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 11:19   #37
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Re: Mmorpgs

I understood it.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 12:12   #38
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Re: Mmorpgs

You bring enough commas for the whole class?

Just kidding, you're doing great.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 12:19   #39
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
You bring enough commas for the whole class?
Yes, yes I did.

,
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Unread 30 May 2007, 13:06   #40
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Re: Mmorpgs

EVE online is fantastic, now im getting my net sorted i can play again, im only a newbie tho, ratting my my way along.

DAOC is amazing aswell, unlike the pretender WoW it has proper PVP with its RVR (realm vs realm) system and it really does feel like a constant war.......which it is

WAR is being made by the same people as DAOC and hopefully they can imbrue DAOCs awsome pvp onto it and avoid going down the WoW route.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 13:13   #41
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Re: Mmorpgs

tribalwars.

it's all you want, really.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 13:38   #42
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Re: Mmorpgs

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tribalwars.

it's all you want, really.

No, it's not.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 19:52   #43
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Re: Mmorpgs

My first post was intended to be helpful and elaborated on what the game was about... until Kila made a bad reply and we all continued escalating it.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 20:51   #44
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
My first post was intended to be helpful and elaborated on what the game was about... until Kila made a bad reply and we all continued escalating it.
It wasn't a bad reply, it was me pointing out a reason for someone to stay away from EVE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I hear that you get to DOCK IN STATIONS in Eve!
You're either a terrible troll or completely ignorant.
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Unread 30 May 2007, 20:54   #45
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
It wasn't a bad reply, it was me pointing out a reason for someone to stay away from EVE.
But it was wrong and you couldn't know anyway since you never played it?
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Unread 30 May 2007, 21:55   #46
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
You're either a terrible troll or completely ignorant.
I think you've got "me" and "you" confused; I don't see how the ability to escape a PvP fight if the person attacking you ****s up* makes Eve a bad game. With its much greater distinction between combat and non-combat ships than you find in most MMOs (WoW, for example, where every class is combat orientated) a basic, free, frigate with a peashooter could take out nigh on every industrial or mining ship in the game.

*And I do mean ****s up; there's a reason why Burn Eden, one of the best PvP corps in the game, puts warp disruptors on its battleships.
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Unread 31 May 2007, 21:02   #47
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I think you've got "me" and "you" confused; I don't see how the ability to escape a PvP fight if the person attacking you ****s up* makes Eve a bad game. With its much greater distinction between combat and non-combat ships than you find in most MMOs (WoW, for example, where every class is combat orientated) a basic, free, frigate with a peashooter could take out nigh on every industrial or mining ship in the game.

*And I do mean ****s up; there's a reason why Burn Eden, one of the best PvP corps in the game, puts warp disruptors on its battleships.
The ability to escape battle just by clicking "warp" is pretty retarded, it's like allowing people to teleport/hearth out of battle in WoW (yes, Paladins can do this but only if they have bubble off cooldown and it can now be dispelled).
As for the warp disruptors, I was unaware of their existence as I hadn't looked into the game in depth as the game as a whole doesn't appeal to me very much. People should be able to escape PvP battles but not with such ease.
See you're assuming that I claimed that EVE was a bad game due to the ability to warp out of battle, I was merely questioning the PvP system which Nadar claims to be far superior to all MMOs.

And yes, you are a shit troll because your previous post was nothing more than a poor bit of trolling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I don't see how the ability to escape a PvP fight if the person attacking you ****s up* makes Eve a bad game.
I don't understand, surely your opponent ****ing up means you win?
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Unread 31 May 2007, 21:51   #48
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
And yes, you are a shit troll because your previous post was nothing more than a poor bit of trolling.
Good case you have there.
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Unread 31 May 2007, 22:46   #49
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
The ability to escape battle just by clicking "warp" is pretty retarded, it's like allowing people to teleport/hearth out of battle in WoW
Or run away, which is something that rogues (say) can do. So can warlocks, priests and mages. So can hunters, and warriors. The aforementioned paladins can, so can shammies. Druids, of course, can as well.

Basically, if you have any form of slowing attack, speed boost or CC at all (which all classes do) you can escape in WoW, assuming that they don't kill you before you can make enough use of this. The same applies in Eve. Even without a point a heavy assault cruiser would be able to blow up a mining barge before it even came close to warping off.

The comparison with hearthing is also pretty disingenious. A hearth is a 60 minute cooldown teleport to a given friendly location, taking all your gear and whatnot with you. Warping is the standard mode of transport in Eve, with its realistic astronomical scale - whilst the fastest ships in the game can move faster than 10km/s, that's not really going to get you far when the stargate to the next system can be over 100AU away, or about 14,959,800,000km. It really would be a slow paced game if moving to the next star system took the quickest vessels in the order of 50 realtime years. Warping is more analagous to mounts, if mounts increased your speed by 14959800% instead of 280% (or whatever).

There is no mechanic in Eve to let you teleport your shit safely, from anywhere, to an area where you're functionally invincible. If someone warps off (if they're not in a Covops ship, but they're a notable exception, designed for scouting) you can follow them, if you haven't stopped them already. You can get to safety by going to a station (either player owned or one of the dockable ones) but they don't exist in every system (and aren't friendly to everyone unless you're in NPC space) and as previously mentioned you really should be stopping people warping off anyway if you're serious about combat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
As for the warp disruptors, I was unaware of their existence as I hadn't looked into the game in depth as the game as a whole doesn't appeal to me very much. People should be able to escape PvP battles but not with such ease.
I hope you didn't mean this to come across as one argument, but christ this paragraph makes you sound like an idiot. You couldn't be bothered to investigate the (extraordinarily simple - anyone can tackle within a few hours of starting the game) game mechanic which stops people running off because you don't like games in which people can run off? Eve has a steep learning curve and everything, but this really is the basic shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
See you're assuming that I claimed that EVE was a bad game due to the ability to warp out of battle, I was merely questioning the PvP system which Nadar claims to be far superior to all MMOs.
Questioning, and getting your answer. It's not a problem - it adds tactical variations, it means that an entire ship class (inderdictors, which really DO stop you from warping off whilst you're in range of its bubble, no way to get around it) isn't obsolete*, it means that non-combat ships (the previously mentioned barges and industrials, for example. Shuttles, too. Carriers if they don't have any drones, but that's something of their own problem) can do something other than sit there and die if they get attacked by anything with a gun fitted, from the free rookie ships up.

You're continuing to ignore the fact that Eve doesn't have the same class dynamics as WoW, where everyone has some form of offensive ability, and killing things or being in groups that kill things are the only way to get ahead in the game. Eve properly has the concept of a non-combat ship. Ships which have terrible defenses and no weaponry, but can mine better than combat ships fit for mining or have larger cargoholds. Characters specialised for mining, refining or production rather than tanking, healing or dps (which you can also specialise in).

This is part of the reason for the more complicated economics model in Eve. In WoW, you never get beyond a simple barter system. Eve is probably the most economically sophisticated game out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
And yes, you are a shit troll because your previous post was nothing more than a poor bit of trolling.
Hurf and indeed durf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
I don't understand, surely your opponent ****ing up means you win?
Not if you're in a ship which is incapable of fitting any weaponry.

*I know that this is putting the cart before the horse a bit, but it still applies: if you don't want people to be able to warp off, there are several game mechanics to stop them doing this**. It's like complaining that someone ran away from you when you tried to gank them in WoW because you refused to move.

**Warp disruptors. Interdictors. Anchorable bubbles. Hell, even just ramming their ship works against something suitably slow, assuming they aren't enormously more massive than you are.
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Unread 1 Jun 2007, 22:39   #50
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Re: Mmorpgs

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
As for the warp disruptors, I was unaware of their existence as I hadn't looked into the game in depth as the game as a whole doesn't appeal to me very much. People should be able to escape PvP battles but not with such ease.
See you're assuming that I claimed that EVE was a bad game due to the ability to warp out of battle, I was merely questioning the PvP system which Nadar claims to be far superior to all MMOs.
You make it sound like it's a LOT easier to escape battle than it actually is. People ALWAYS fit warp disruptors on their ships when they're fitted for PVP, so both ships are actually keeping the other from fleeing. You can counter this by; 1) Put WCS (warp core stabilizers) on your ship which makes it harder for the enemy to warp disrupt you, BUT this will pretty much f*ck your ability to kill anything as a WCS gives penalties (such as lower lock/targeting range) or 2) Having a fast-ship setup so you can outspeed your enemy; but this will decrease your damage output and your enemy can counter it by using his Stasis Webifier (Which reduces your speed with 78% up to 90% (depending on which webifier you use).

Please don't talk more about things you don't have a clue about, or at least make some research to backup your arguments with, Kila :/
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