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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 06:11   #1
Travler
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Cheating cnuts cant get away with it for 2 rounds straight, Thats why they alternate there rounds. Shame were not all a bunch of sadcase loosers who cheat.
In truth that is true dedication. Willing to break the law just to win a game. How many others can attest to that?


XP needs to be bumped up a bit. Too many t100 players with massive value and low xp.
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 13:35   #2
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
In truth that is true dedication. Willing to break the law just to win a game. How many others can attest to that?


XP needs to be bumped up a bit. Too many t100 players with massive value and low xp.

Excuse me, but did you just say "XP needs to be bumped" (or returned to what it was last round), or "a decent set of statistics needs to be made (one where zikonian is actually difficult to play, not one where an incompetent person gets to make a set of statistics that ends up being redone after 20 minutes of betatesting?).
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 13:49   #3
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
In truth that is true dedication. Willing to break the law just to win a game. How many others can attest to that?


XP needs to be bumped up a bit. Too many t100 players with massive value and low xp.
Wait... wasn't there an uproar when ascendancy pulled the xp whoring tactic to a whole new level? That was an xp round I believe.

What's it gonna be? I thought value > xp was what everyone was wanting ... I could quote a fair number of posts from people in varying alliances all saying it.

Edit: Beaten by keizari.
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 14:04   #4
Travler
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
Wait... wasn't there an uproar when ascendancy pulled the xp whoring tactic to a whole new level? That was an xp round I believe.

What's it gonna be? I thought value > xp was what everyone was wanting ... I could quote a fair number of posts from people in varying alliances all saying it.
Just a little bit of change to the xp formula. Not an extreme amount like in r16. Just enough to allow some xp players to get in the top 100. I would rather have no change than an extreme one.
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
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You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 14:27   #5
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
Wait... wasn't there an uproar when ascendancy pulled the xp whoring tactic to a whole new level? That was an xp round I believe.

What's it gonna be? I thought value > xp was what everyone was wanting ... I could quote a fair number of posts from people in varying alliances all saying it.

Edit: Beaten by keizari.
I don't think everyone is nessecarily against there being two ways to go, XP and Value. The problem is a bit like a pure value round having Ziks, it is an imbalance that is impossible to fix in the current setup. Personally i would love to have two decent ways to go for the top, however both ways should be able to effectively counter eachother and atm that is impossible.

XP that is gained can never ever be lost in any way, where (alot of) value can be lost by just being unlucky (for example losing your internet while on an attack). This basicly means that it is technically unfair to allow XP players to get high in the ranks, simply because it is impossible to remove them from their rank once they are there (apart from killing their tiny fleets which will only slow them slightly).

I still think XP is one of the reasons for PaX being so utterly boring (how on earth can it be exciting to try and outgrow someone without being able to take him down).
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 14:44   #6
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Oh god another 'xp whores are bad!!!1111' post
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 17:42   #7
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Erm, i think you somewhat misunderstood me. I'm not saying XP whores are bad, i actually like the fact there is a second way to win (just as i enjoyed seeing Asc win that round). I do however think it is wrong that it is impossible to damage them in any way (as explained above).
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 20:06   #8
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

If you could damage XP then you may as well just call it value.


Bring back the original XP formula, give it a little tweak that makes it harder to get when you have more of it (I recall that a formula was originally designed to do this) and put together a decent set of stats (i.e. get designing and testing them now).

This is the graph that I mean (yes, it's very badly created)

Code:
^ planet's XP
|
|
|
|
|                                  _   -
|                           _  - 
|                     _  - 
|                  /
|              / 
|           /
|        /
|      /
|    /
|   /
|  /
| /                                    roids captured
|/________________________________________>
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 21:03   #9
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
If you could damage XP then you may as well just call it value.


Bring back the original XP formula, give it a little tweak that makes it harder to get when you have more of it (I recall that a formula was originally designed to do this) and put together a decent set of stats (i.e. get designing and testing them now).

This is the graph that I mean (yes, it's very badly created)

Code:
^ planet's XP
|
|
|
|
|                                  _   -
|                           _  - 
|                     _  - 
|                  /
|              / 
|           /
|        /
|      /
|    /
|   /
|  /
| /                                    roids captured
|/________________________________________>
Logarithmic?
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 21:19   #10
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
Logarithmic?
It might well be - I didn't study maths past GCSE so I don't actually know
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 23:06   #11
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Isn't logarithmic growth exponential so the graph goes the other way? and a linear graph is a straight line growth? im not sure just questioning and im not entirely sure what the naming of this growth graph would be.
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Unread 27 Aug 2006, 23:16   #12
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATRO
Isn't logarithmic growth exponential so the graph goes the other way? and a linear graph is a straight line growth? im not sure just questioning and im not entirely sure what the naming of this growth graph would be.
nope, the graph was correctly named logarithmic
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Unread 28 Aug 2006, 00:00   #13
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

ATRO - I suspect that 'logaritimic' describes the shape of the curve, not whether the rate increases or decreases.
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Unread 28 Aug 2006, 10:29   #14
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

ahhh ok, so its based on the shape, sorry my bad
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Unread 28 Aug 2006, 12:47   #15
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Lets talk about maths baby! \o/

Erm anyway.. yeah i agree too that XP needs tweaking. I think the Log graph is a nice idea but that was supposed to be the aim this round, but it hasnt seemingly come off very well. Maybe a small boost would be good, with Value catching XP over time meaning that the top100 would probably end up value dominated, but with approx 30% XP planets, and maybe 1 or 2 top 10's if they play the whole round very well.
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Unread 28 Aug 2006, 22:18   #16
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

remove xp.

add honour or something instead, which u gain when u attack planets with more value than you, and loose when u attack someone alot smaller.

If u got a low honour, u will get less resources per roid u have.
This will encourage smaller planets attacking bigger ones, as they will make more pr roid. This will also force them to defend their roids.

:s
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Quote:
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 29 Aug 2006, 02:12   #17
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
remove xp.

add honour or something instead, which u gain when u attack planets with more value than you, and loose when u attack someone alot smaller.

If u got a low honour, u will get less resources per roid u have.
This will encourage smaller planets attacking bigger ones, as they will make more pr roid. This will also force them to defend their roids.

:s
Great idea.
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Unread 29 Aug 2006, 02:26   #18
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by XelNaga
Great idea.
I'm sorry but as part of an initiative to encourage competent posting, you don't get to suck Wishy's penis unless you can tell us why you think it's a great idea.


e.g.
"I think that this is a good suggestion as it punishes bashers by reducing the amount they earn from their roids, which is intrinsic to success. It avoids the complications of XP, such as the inability to destroy it, although Wishmaster's honour proposal also lacks many of its benefits (such as preventing planets who lose their entire fleet essentially being reset to zero). It will hurt the top 50 players, however, because they are often unable to find planets to attack at their own score and higher. Nevertheless, this may be a good thing as it would act in tandem with the roid researches to slow down the exponential growth of the top players and prevent them running away with the round."

(those happen to be my own thoughts)



From a mod point of view, I'm considering splitting this thread to preserve its original topic while allowing the XP discussion to continue. The new thread would be sent to the Suggestions forums. If no sensible objections are raised I'll do that at some point tomorrow afternoon.
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Unread 29 Aug 2006, 02:39   #19
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Any poster sucking my penis is a competent poster.

TYVM!

---

Why should someone who loose all their fleet have any score left? I never got that. Thats like playing Monopoly and allowing someone with little cash to only pay half, as it would be rude to ruin them!

Planetarion has been about killing your opponents / or outroid them. I dont really see a need for a honour system either, but I fear the masses wont agree with me that score based on value is enough. So thats why I suggest an honour system instead of xp which imo has ruined pa.


Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
It will hurt the top 50 players, however, because they are often unable to find planets to attack at their own score and higher. Nevertheless, this may be a good thing as it would act in tandem with the roid researches to slow down the exponential growth of the top players and prevent them running away with the round."
yes. Depends how u set it though. We might have people with max honour and 2k roids having a larger score than someone with 4k roids and shit honour.
I do not know a good formula.
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Quote:
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 29 Aug 2006, 15:53   #20
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Re: Potential changes to XP for Round 19

Right, as you can see I've moved these posts from AD to the Suggestions forum as they no longer pertain to the original thread. Let's discuss these proposals and see what we can come up with.
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Unread 30 Aug 2006, 01:27   #21
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
remove xp.

add honour or something instead, which u gain when u attack planets with more value than you, and loose when u attack someone alot smaller.

If u got a low honour, u will get less resources per roid u have.
This will encourage smaller planets attacking bigger ones, as they will make more pr roid. This will also force them to defend their roids.

:s
Nice if the rankings are based on Honour or why not introducing 2 rankings :
1 value based
1 honour based
... up to each player to see for which one he wants to compete, and up to the community to decide which one of the rankings has more prestige.
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Unread 30 Aug 2006, 08:24   #22
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Re: Exilition please play next round please please please

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Originally Posted by Travler
Just a little bit of change to the xp formula. Not an extreme amount like in r16. Just enough to allow some xp players to get in the top 100. I would rather have no change than an extreme one.
I dont know what game you are playing, but if you go to sandmans you will see a few xp-whores who are in top 100...
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 11:54   #23
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Re: Potential changes to XP for Round 19

This round and previous was a bit value dominated.
Everyone know who was gonna win the round 2-3 weeks before it ended,
even if he/she lost 75% of the roids.
So everybody just awaits the end of the round, which makes it dull.

Keep the value + XP, but make the score affected more by the number of
roids. eg. roids contribute 1x to value, but also 10x to score
This also lowers the effect of XP whoring.
I think the purpose was about keeping roids in the beginning of PA, not ships.
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 13:39   #24
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Re: Potential changes to XP for Round 19

Personnally I liked this rounds xp stats. XP kind of measures the general fleet activity of the player, not the real skills. Value is more the meter for skills, getting roids and more important keeping them wihtout loosing ships.

Ofc skilled players who has grate ally behind them dosn't like xp, because they don't benefit from it as well as player with small value. I've been playing last 3 rounds wihtout decent defence and the only way to be even near top 100 has been collecting xp. wihtout it I'd been closer to 500 and my playing motivation would have been close to 0.
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 14:45   #25
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Re: Potential changes to XP for Round 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remo
Value is more the meter for skills, getting roids and more important keeping them wihtout loosing ships.
That would be true if there wasn't a Zik race, especially when they're allowed bashing, and when they can easily farm without being caught.

XP is not merely a measurement of fleet activity. It shows who has the skill to attack planets bigger than their own.
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 16:00   #26
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Re: Potential changes to XP for Round 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
XP is not merely a measurement of fleet activity. It shows who has the skill to attack planets bigger than their own.
Well this round I had no problem with it, since when I didn't really need to build any defencive ships. All res were spent to offencive ships so I had no problem to attack bigger planets than my own. That worked out pretty well untill I was FC'd.
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Unread 8 Sep 2006, 14:29   #27
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Re: Potential changes to XP for Round 19

i dont see how value is a way to determine the skill of a player, in truth, it is score that point out how skilled a player is.. not value , value only show the cost of the fleet you got. or that you have stolen.. no big skill in there.. either you re lucky to have defense and keep your roids.. or you fleetcaught someone in their sleep.. no big skill there..
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Unread 8 Sep 2006, 16:43   #28
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Re: Potential changes to XP for Round 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by rop1964
i dont see how value is a way to determine the skill of a player, in truth, it is score that point out how skilled a player is.. not value , value only show the cost of the fleet you got. or that you have stolen.. no big skill in there.. either you re lucky to have defense and keep your roids.. or you fleetcaught someone in their sleep.. no big skill there..
I disagree. Of course, there are other contributing factors (alliance, politics, friends, activity), but if there is no skill involved, why do certain people in certain alliances always end up with big value planets? Even if they are in the same alliances and have the same defence priority?

I know XPing is different now, but just to attack bigger planets is not necessarily a huge thing. I found round 16 my most rediculously easy round out of the 5 where I played a planet properly.
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Unread 8 Sep 2006, 22:03   #29
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Re: Potential changes to XP for Round 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by rop1964
either you re lucky to have defense and keep your roids..
Or maybe you put yourself in a position where very few people would be tempted to attack you and if they did, you have a very good idea what you will be hit by.
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