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Unread 20 Jul 2006, 09:40   #1
noah02
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Production cancelling

Appoco I been told you will not like this idea coz it means more work hehe

But my idea is simple

Pending Orders




Ship Order (delivery in tick *** at 12:00)
Gryphon 1000
Barghest 1000
Wyvern 100
Dragon 100
Demeter 100
Leviathan 100
CANCEL THE ORDER
If you cancel the order now you will be refunded 83% of the original cost.
Current refund: loads a money metal, even more crystal and to much eonium.

this is how it looks at the mo after ordering ships 1 tick ago then down to 66% tick after etc..

my idea is just instead of cancelling everything, you have a lil tick box next to each ship then you cancel say just the demeters.

I mean there is plenty of reasons for this idea mainly if you buy all sorts then you dont want to stop most of them you only want to stop a few to make them extra funds to help defend urself but atm you have no choice but to loose 86% of everything rather than 86% of things you dont need.
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Unread 20 Jul 2006, 09:50   #2
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Re: Production cancelling

Perhaps more care when ordering the batch of ships would mean that you didnt need to cancel a particular type?
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Unread 20 Jul 2006, 09:55   #3
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Re: Production cancelling

I like this idea, would be helpful if your building a load of anti-xx ships with incoming and they recall and you want to reinvest

Noah02++
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Unread 20 Jul 2006, 10:00   #4
noah02
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Re: Production cancelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Perhaps more care when ordering the batch of ships would mean that you didnt need to cancel a particular type?
But you wanted them ships at time of buying them.

2 ticks later you got a incoming from say an xan that arrives the same tick as ur frigs are going to be built.
So you want to cancel the frigs but not the battleships.

See tiz a good idea come on sov you loves it :P
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Written by Kloopy Wed Mar 16 22:06:43 2005

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Unread 20 Jul 2006, 11:15   #5
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Re: Production cancelling

We've already got a thread further down yo.

But it is a good idea to build in to the game and improve the interface.
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Unread 20 Jul 2006, 20:08   #6
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Re: Production cancelling

Again, more hand-holding.


It's a tactical decision players should be forced to make when ordering ships - because by doing so you risk those ships becoming useless or even dying as a result of future incoming.

to soveh
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Unread 20 Jul 2006, 21:23   #7
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Re: Production cancelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Again, more hand-holding.


It's a tactical decision players should be forced to make when ordering ships - because by doing so you risk those ships becoming useless or even dying as a result of future incoming.

to soveh
Seriously, are you trying to look like the hardman on Suggestions?

It's a simple improvement to the interface and it's certainly not handholding if it prevents misclicks and the like and prevents unavoidable mistakes, especially by people in a hurry. It's like that in the ideal world you'ld like to sit there, have an impossible interface and negotiate that to prove what a hardman you are rather than improve the game. Your posts on here have been nothing short of bragging at how awesome you are at not having misclicked yet and it's got to the point of irritating.
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Unread 20 Jul 2006, 23:12   #8
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Re: Production cancelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Seriously, are you trying to look like the hardman on Suggestions?

It's a simple improvement to the interface and it's certainly not handholding if it prevents misclicks and the like and prevents unavoidable mistakes, especially by people in a hurry. It's like that in the ideal world you'ld like to sit there, have an impossible interface and negotiate that to prove what a hardman you are rather than improve the game. Your posts on here have been nothing short of bragging at how awesome you are at not having misclicked yet and it's got to the point of irritating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Oh, I've done it plenty of times. I've defended my targets in my sleep, sent fleets without pods, recalled the wrong fleet (which was on course for free roids) while letting the other crash and burn. I've cancelled productions and everything else that now comes with a pretty tickbox. In fact, I ticked the box and then did it anyway.


The thing is, it was my fault every time. It wasn't PA's fault.

It's not a case of being a hardman, I just enjoy a simple PA interface. Why does there have to be some kind of agenda about myself as opposed to a mere personal belief about the direction of the game? It's not bloody about me, it never has been. Yeah, I'm posting the same opinion in the many threads all on this topic because it applies to each one.

Misclicks and the like are what have always made PA fun. They bring people closer together because you share your mistake with everyone else, everyone laughs and reminisces about the time they did that and life is generally good.

The various options suggested would probably be quite successful in PA's next iteration, whenever that may be. I just like it how it is, is that such a bad thing?
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Unread 21 Jul 2006, 00:10   #9
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Re: Production cancelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
It's not a case of being a hardman, I just enjoy a simple PA interface.
How does a clickbox make it complicated, exactly?

Quote:
Why does there have to be some kind of agenda about myself as opposed to a mere personal belief about the direction of the game? It's not bloody about me, it never has been. Yeah, I'm posting the same opinion in the many threads all on this topic because it applies to each one.
Because i think your posts have been coming across crap to me. I got bored of them, so instead of sitting on my hands, decided to say so.

Quote:
Misclicks and the like are what have always made PA fun. They bring people closer together because you share your mistake with everyone else, everyone laughs and reminisces about the time they did that and life is generally good.
I don't get this at all.

Quote:
The various options suggested would probably be quite successful in PA's next iteration, whenever that may be. I just like it how it is, is that such a bad thing?
Because "like it the way it is" and "would probably be quite successful" to me at least suggests that we shouldn't improve the game, regardless of the improvement simply because you like it the way it is. To me it would be comparable to ascendancy advocating keeping XP as it was simply because they wanted to be lazy all round, which would have been utterly counterproductive. As you imply, we can improve things. Just because you happen to like something is not something in my view that should warrant the improvement never being made. The only thing that should matter on this forum (from my point of view) is does this make the game better/easier to use? As you say it will be quite successful, so I can only conclude that it does.
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Unread 21 Jul 2006, 00:41   #10
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Re: Production cancelling

...


furball, are you actually being serious?
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Unread 21 Jul 2006, 17:11   #11
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Re: Production cancelling

One of the things I hate about microsoft or for that matter most software companies, is the continual confirmation dialogue boxes. Yes they're good when you're at work doing something important, but the rest of the time its a continual annoyance.
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Unread 21 Jul 2006, 22:17   #12
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Re: Production cancelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
How does a clickbox make it complicated, exactly?
I didn't say it made it complicated.

I promoted simplicity. One action, one click.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Because i think your posts have been coming across crap to me. I got bored of them, so instead of sitting on my hands, decided to say so.
You could have PMed me on the forums or IRC, but never mind - it doesn't really matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I don't get this at all.
I think that's because you've always been at the top of PA - or at least you got yourself there very early on. Camaraderie for you was probably created by success in battle and in the rankings - good IRC relationships were simply a bonus that exemplified this. But for the majority of players, IRC relationships are all they have.

Look at how everyone cries about galaxy channels being dead. That's because there's little of interest that they can talk about in them. Alliance politics and machinations have to remain secretive - a natural result of the increasing professionalism found in today's alliances. So what else is there to talk about? Mishaps are a prime example of what can really get a discussion going. Players need to build new relationships to keep their interest in the game refreshing, and it's hardly happening at all except in the most active of galaxies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Because "like it the way it is" and "would probably be quite successful" to me at least suggests that we shouldn't improve the game, regardless of the improvement simply because you like it the way it is. To me it would be comparable to ascendancy advocating keeping XP as it was simply because they wanted to be lazy all round, which would have been utterly counterproductive. As you imply, we can improve things. Just because you happen to like something is not something in my view that should warrant the improvement never being made. The only thing that should matter on this forum (from my point of view) is does this make the game better/easier to use? As you say it will be quite successful, so I can only conclude that it does.
It's rather difficult to convey a gut feeling, I'll say that first.

I don't think your comparison is particularly analogous. Ascendancy used XP to win, my use of misclicks generally resulted in me losing (but in the process, indirectly made some good friends).

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
However, I realise that not everyone shares my opinion - so I'd be perfectly happy to accept its introduction with a tickbox beside every 'cancel' option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
The various options suggested would probably be quite successful in PA's next iteration, whenever that may be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
...


furball, are you actually being serious?
Very. I don't expect you to agree with me, just to try to understand the reasoning behind my posts. Please try.
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Unread 21 Jul 2006, 22:42   #13
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Re: Production cancelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I didn't say it made it complicated.

I promoted simplicity. One action, one click.
Then what's wrong with having simplicity with a safety catch? It's like saying we can't have the best of both worlds.

Quote:
You could have PMed me on the forums or IRC, but never mind - it doesn't really matter.
Not really, no - it was just normal post versus post.

Quote:
I think that's because you've always been at the top of PA - or at least you got yourself there very early on. Camaraderie for you was probably created by success in battle and in the rankings - good IRC relationships were simply a bonus that exemplified this. But for the majority of players, IRC relationships are all they have.
Look, i've spent nights literally leaden faced trying to get my troops some defence and being utterly helpless in the face of legion and fury. The alliance I'm most proud to be a part of is arguably the least successful. The only errors that are funny are the absolutely catastrophic situations of ineptitude, such as Storebo's famous confusing of attackers/defenders. A misclick is annoying at the time and soon becomes not worthy of mention.

Quote:
Look at how everyone cries about galaxy channels being dead. That's because there's little of interest that they can talk about in them. Alliance politics and machinations have to remain secretive - a natural result of the increasing professionalism found in today's alliances.
I agree on this - fake nicking, for example is bullshit. I banned it my galaxy and I don't care who has my coords. I'd rather have that than all the bullshit that surrounds fakenicking. Actually alliance politics don't need to be as secretive because once you get one, you more or less get em all if your scanners are bright enough. Really we should stop doing this, it's damaging the community.

Quote:
So what else is there to talk about? Mishaps are a prime example of what can really get a discussion going. Players need to build new relationships to keep their interest in the game refreshing, and it's hardly happening at all except in the most active of galaxies.
This goes back to Sid's eternal question of whether PA is a war game. I don't see this round as a war game at all. To me it seems to be accumulate value and allies till bigger than 1up and kill 1up. It's terrifically dull. If there were interesting wars to talk about. Round 12 was the last truly great round, simply because some of the battles between 1up, LCH, ND, HR and VsN were pretty epic in their scale, violence and intensity. They were worth talking about. Planetarion should be more of a war game, because a war game is more entertaining. I have no doubt about that.

We need to talk about planetarion action, not unintentional misclicks, which we need to eradicate.

Quote:
It's rather difficult to convey a gut feeling, I'll say that first.

I don't think your comparison is particularly analogous. Ascendancy used XP to win, my use of misclicks generally resulted in me losing (but in the process, indirectly made some good friends).
No, we used it because we could get score while being bloody lazy and we preferred it. Given a choice we could have asked to stick with it, but we knew pa would have turned into a fanny fest had we persisted. I certainly have some good memories of us lolling in the aisles as the round progressed, at least.

Quote:
Very. I don't expect you to agree with me, just to try to understand the reasoning behind my posts. Please try.
I find it very hard to argue with jerome. While he's not a political animal, he's very knowledgeable about the game. If he's saying you've got no reason, he's probably right. I think the reason he's posting like that is because of lot of what you're posting don't make no sense.
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Unread 22 Jul 2006, 19:50   #14
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Re: Production cancelling

furball, the reasons you put forward really doesn't mean anything nor are they on any sound basis with the context of the game in mind. what is the point of providing check boxes for the missions page but not production?you either have to take that out as well (which would be damn stupid as when you consider that this game is trying to be "friendly" and so on; and therefore doesn't go hand in hand with the idea of punishing accidental mishaps) i realise i have been somewhat harsh on some posts of yours in recent times, but in this case it has to be said that you just seem to be arguing for the sake of keeping a "comfort" zone (which isn't all that removed anyway) and possibly just for the sake of arguing itself. (edit: which might be somewhat ironic in what you might see of my posts)
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 08:36   #15
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Re: Production cancelling

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
furball, the reasons you put forward really doesn't mean anything nor are they on any sound basis with the context of the game in mind. what is the point of providing check boxes for the missions page but not production?you either have to take that out as well (which would be damn stupid as when you consider that this game is trying to be "friendly" and so on; and therefore doesn't go hand in hand with the idea of punishing accidental mishaps) i realise i have been somewhat harsh on some posts of yours in recent times, but in this case it has to be said that you just seem to be arguing for the sake of keeping a "comfort" zone (which isn't all that removed anyway) and possibly just for the sake of arguing itself. (edit: which might be somewhat ironic in what you might see of my posts)
The problem is that it's very difficult to argue a belief. I like simplicity, it may not be the most user-friendly way of doing things but I enjoy it. It's little different from preferring an Aston Martin DB9 to a Porsche 911 - you're hardly going to convince the lover of the former to change to the latter just because of X, Y and Z.

For clarification, I wasn't especially in love with the changes to the mission page either. It was probably more of an issue than the production cancelling, which I never made a mistake on.

The game's current vision means that all this user-friendliness is the right way to go. However, I'm not in love with the game's current vision.

I'm not totally sure what you exactly mean by "arguing for the sake of keeping a 'comfort zone'", so you'll have to explain that. However, I'm not taking this position just for the sake of it - it'd be far less effort just to agree with everyone and take the populist positions.
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