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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 20:55   #1
s|k
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Say goodbye to image searching

http://ecoustics-cnet.com.com/2100-1...ecoustics-cnet

Quote:
A federal judge has ruled that portions of Google's popular image search feature, which displays small thumbnail versions of images found on other Web sites, likely violate U.S. copyright law.
Your going to have to find new methods to search for porn. :/
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 20:56   #2
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
http://ecoustics-cnet.com.com/2100-1...ecoustics-cnet



Your going to have to find new methods to search for porn. :/
All google needs to do is host servers in some scandanavian country. Works for Torrent files.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 20:58   #3
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

I don't see any major effect but i'll read the judgement
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 20:58   #4
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by _RATM_
All google needs to do is host servers in some scandanavian country. Works for Torrent files.
Nay, it will have to do more than host search there, it'll have to move its base of operations there and delist its hundred billion dollars worth of assets from the NASDAQ to be out of the US court's jurisdiction and SEC investigation. I'm sure they'll just disable image searching instead.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:00   #5
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Google said on Tuesday that it plans to appeal the injunction, and predicted it will have no effect on the "vast majority" of its image searches.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:01   #6
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Nay, it will have to do more than host search there, it'll have to move its base of operations there and delist its hundred billion dollars worth of assets from the NASDAQ to be out of the US court's jurisdiction and SEC investigation. I'm sure they'll just disable image searching instead.
Or appeal and say they aren't hosting the images.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:01   #7
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Quote:
Google said on Tuesday that it plans to appeal the injunction, and predicted it will have no effect on the "vast majority" of its image searches.
Yeah at worst, they'll ask people to put a new robots Meta tag on their pages if they don't want their images thumbnailed on Google Search. Just now considered that as a solution, god they should hire me.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:02   #8
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by _RATM_
Or appeal and say they aren't hosting the images.
They do cache the images.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:04   #9
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

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Originally Posted by s|k
They do cache the images.
Well then google will have to be destroyed because it is depriving another great company of its well diserved wealth in the world of free market!

Honestly, some people take it too far.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:16   #10
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Was it not 'decided' recently that google's caching of data was 'fair use'? I don't see why text would be different from images in that respect...
[edit] found it: http://news.com.com/2061-10812_3-603...1266&subj=news
It seems the decision was made because the suer could have stopped the caching.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:20   #11
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

they could just buy the rights to the photos from an issue of penthouse and have all image searches respond with a random selection of that set.

suddenly everything is all legal and none of the customers notice the difference.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:22   #12
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Yeah at worst, they'll ask people to put a new robots Meta tag on their pages if they don't want their images thumbnailed on Google Search.
No, this wont happen. Under the current system, its equivalent to telling people to paint a red X on their front door if they dont want their house broken into.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:26   #13
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
No, this wont happen. Under the current system, its equivalent to telling people to paint a red X on their front door if they dont want their house broken into.
because a lot of websites are damaged after 'being broken into' by google. and they get very mad when all of their images are gone.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:32   #14
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

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Originally Posted by s|k
Your going to have to find new methods to search for porn. :/
Yahoo! Video search for the win!
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:41   #15
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
No, this wont happen. Under the current system, its equivalent to telling people to paint a red X on their front door if they dont want their house broken into.
This is standard operating procedure, if you don't want Google to index your site you have to tell it not to with a robots.txt page. Also if you don't want your page cached by search engines they have meta tags used for that as well. These are in operation as we speak. I don't think it's any different from putting a Copyright claim on a magazine or on a website for that matter, just it's a copyright claim for computers and not people.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:52   #16
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
This is standard operating procedure, if you don't want Google to index your site you have to tell it not to with a robots.txt page. Also if you don't want your page cached by search engines they have meta tags used for that as well.
Indexing sites and caching pages isnt illegal, hosting protected images is. The point is that the owners shouldnt (legally) be expected to do extra work in order to protect their IP.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 21:58   #17
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Indexing sites and caching pages isnt illegal, hosting protected images is. The point is that the owners shouldnt (legally) be expected to do extra work in order to protect their IP.
I don't understand why a cache of a web page, with copyrighted content, is any different than a cache of the image. The cache of the web page includes the site's images.

How is Google to determine which pictures are protected and which arent when there are so many of them?
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 22:12   #18
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Indexing sites and caching pages isnt illegal, hosting protected images is. The point is that the owners shouldnt (legally) be expected to do extra work in order to protect their IP.
that's like someone putting all their belongings on the street and expect them not to be stolen. when you put something on the internet, it's publicly accessible by anyone.

you must do extra work for your work to be protected, just like in happens outside of the internet ..
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 22:16   #19
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
that's like someone putting all their belongings on the street and expect them not to be stolen. when you put something on the internet, it's publicly accessible by anyone.

you must do extra work for your work to be protected, just like in happens outside of the internet ..
it's still a crime to steal someone's belongings even if they store them on the street
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 22:19   #20
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
it's still a crime to steal someone's belongings even if they store them on the street
because there's the idea of removing something from someone. it's a different matter when you make an identical copy of an item without destroying or harming the original one in any way. my example was that people should protect their belongings
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 22:19   #21
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
that's like someone putting all their belongings on the street and expect them not to be stolen. when you put something on the internet, it's publicly accessible by anyone.

you must do extra work for your work to be protected, just like in happens outside of the internet ..
This is common sense, but I don't think this is a sound legal argument. Of course I'm no laywer so I don't really know.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 22:23   #22
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
because there's the idea of removing something from someone. it's a different matter when you make an identical copy of an item without destroying or harming the original one in any way. my example was that people should protect their belongings
people should not need to protect their belongings.

society (through it's laws) should protect them for them.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 22:28   #23
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Did anyone read the link I posted? :|
It was decided in Nevada that because of the ability to 'protect' content from google with a robots.txt, that the cacheing of content constituted 'fair use', and wasn't in breach of copyright.
Now I realise that Nevada law isn't going to automatically influence the law everywhere else, but it certainly means it isn't as clear cut as it seems Nodrog would have us believe, and that (in some contexts at least) it seems the onus is on the owners to tell search engines to skip over their content.
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Unread 22 Feb 2006, 22:32   #24
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Right (I wanted to read the bloody thing and check before i posted because it's not my native legal system after all) but the first thing to say is that:

it is just an injunction. it's not determinitive. The case hasn't been won (or lost) yet.

The test for getting an injunction is lower than for actually winning in court.

Secondly as the article points out (and mark quoted) this is really not going to affect google world wide.
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Unread 23 Feb 2006, 09:19   #25
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I don't understand why a cache of a web page, with copyrighted content, is any different than a cache of the image. The cache of the web page includes the site's images.
Does it?

When I look at a cache of this site the images all look like they are from pirate.planetarion.com (if I look at the properties of an individual icon for instance). If I look at a cache of a site that is down, generally all I will see is the text of the page, not the images.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
that's like someone putting all their belongings on the street and expect them not to be stolen
I think a better analogy would be putting your things (or yourself) out in the street and expecting them not to be photographed. I suppose a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' could be a good place to start when considering these sorts of questions.
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Unread 23 Feb 2006, 14:27   #26
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

You are a pretty poor troll Green Spit.

I don't really use Google image search so it doesn't really bother me, when ever I try to enlarge the thumbnails something always goes wrong and the images never work. However, I don't really see what harm Google was causing by having the feature, surely it just generated additional traffic for the website since inorder to enlarge the image you have to see view the page it's on
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Unread 23 Feb 2006, 19:29   #27
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

are people complaining about google storing the images, or google providing thumbnails (with an associated quality loss)?

either way, i expect google to win.
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Unread 23 Feb 2006, 19:39   #28
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

How many appeals can Google try after this in the US system?
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Unread 23 Feb 2006, 19:44   #29
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
You are a pretty poor troll Green Spit.

I don't really use Google image search so it doesn't really bother me, when ever I try to enlarge the thumbnails something always goes wrong and the images never work. However, I don't really see what harm Google was causing by having the feature, surely it just generated additional traffic for the website since inorder to enlarge the image you have to see view the page it's on


the case was brought against google by a site called perfect 10 or something, and it was to stop google caching images which had been pirated from there and featured on other sites, quite frankly, its ****ing ridiculous that the judge expects google to be responsible for someone elses copyright violation
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Unread 23 Feb 2006, 20:31   #30
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Re: Say goodbye to image searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4VAlien
How many appeals can Google try after this in the US system?
Federal court -> appellate court -> supreme court. Although that doesn't mean it's 3 trials. I think you can be shot back down to the federal court from the appellate court and then back up and down and around until you get dizzy.
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