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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 11:22   #1
Kargool
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The big picture

Let me tell you a little story about the Big Picture.

There's a soldier and his sargeant on a hill in Vietnam. They're with their platoon. The sargeant gets an order from his superiors and says to the soldier. "Well, we have no choice. We have to take that hill over there."

"The big one? With the six machine gun nests?"

"Yeah."

"That's crazy!" The soldier says. "We'll all die."

"Probably." The sargeant says. "But we have to do it."

"That's stupid!" The soldier protests. "Why?"

"Because you don't understand the big picture. The generals out there, back at camp? They understand what the big picture is."

The soldier vowed that if he survived, he would find out what the big picture was. So they charge the hill and they kill a lot of vietnamese, and the Soldier gets promoted and the Sargeant gets reassigned, because they're the only two survivors. The soldier vows that one day, he'll become a general, and he'll get to understand what the big picture is.

So he stays in the army for 20 years, and he finally becomes a general, and he gets into the war room, where the other generals are hanging out and smoking cigars. And he says "So what's this big picture thing I've heard so much about?"

One of the other generals looks at him like he's nuts and says "Boy, we don't decide that. Those guys in Congress, they decide what the big picture is." The poor guy sighs. Now he has to run for congress.

So he runs, and he wins, because he's a war hero, and he gets into Congress, and he walks into his first committee meeting, and says "So what's all this about a big picture?"

His fellow committee members all laugh at him. "We don't decide that. It's the President. He decides that."

So off he goes, running for the white house. It takes a while, but he's charismatic, and a war hero, and he's not secretly playing with cigars or controlled by the oil lobby, so he gets elected.

Into the oval office he goes, and he says to his secretary "So what's this big picture thing I've heard so much about?"

His secretary stares and says "Oh, you don't make those decisions. Your cabinet makes those decisions."

So he makes a deal with his vice president that his vice president will appoint him to his cabinet, and he steps down after only a single term. He has to find out before he dies, after all.

So he goes to his first cabinet meeting, and the cabinet people are all chatting around, and he asks about the Big Picture, and they all look at him like he's nuts. And one of them says "Well, we don't actually know that. Those boys in the corporations, they know that."

So he arranges to leave the cabinet and get a job with a very large corporation as an executive vice president. After all, look at his resume.

And he goes into the first corporate board meeting, and they hang out there, while some strippers come in, they do some insider trading, some people take prostitutes into back rooms, and they all smoke cigars. "But the big picture!" He shouts. "What about the big picture?"

And the CEO of the company turns to look at him, and after all these years, it's his old sargeant, and he says, in shock and surprise, not even able to recognize his former soldier...

"Don't tell me you were on that [email protected]#$ing hill too."
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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 12:15   #2
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Re: The big picture

I'm sad you decided to share that with us.


PS. I hope Luton die \o/
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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 15:45   #3
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
His secretary stares and says "Oh, you don't make those decisions. Your cabinet makes those decisions."

So he makes a deal with his vice president that his vice president will appoint him to his cabinet
This bit is kind of dumb, because the first reply is predicated upon the Cabinet deciding things (when the President appoints them, and has ultimate say on pretty much everything not backed by a 2/3 majority in both houses of congress) and the second upon the president appointing congress.

Also, he could become a member of the cabinet by resigning the office of president and then having the VP (who would be sworn in) appoint him.
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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 16:06   #4
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Re: The big picture

That was a joke that demonstrated neither a grasp on reality nor a shred of humour.

Like this joke:

Knock knock?
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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 16:16   #5
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Re: The big picture

That works on a Dadaist level.
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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 16:18   #6
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Re: The big picture

That was about as good as the joke someone at work told me a few weeks ago:

Why did the gorilla fall out of the tree? It was dead.
Why did the second gorilla fall out of the tree? It was following the first.
Why did the third gorilla fall out of the tree? It thought the other two were playing a game.
Why did the refrigerator fall out of the tree? The branch broke.
Why did the girl fall off her bike? Because she had three friggin gorillas and a refrigerator fall on her.
Why did the boy fall out of the swing? Because he had no arms.

At this point the guy who told me this was laughing hysterically, and I was glad it was the end of the joke.
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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 16:30   #7
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
That works on a Dadaist level.
I wiki'd Dadaism as I had never heard of it before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The origin of the name Dada is unclear; some believe that it is a nonsensical word. Others maintain that it originates from the Romanian artists Tristan Tzara and Marcel Janco's frequent use of the words da, da, meaning yes, yes in the Romanian language (Engl. equivalent: yeah, yeah, as in a sarcastic or facetious yeah, right).
I get it now, haha lolz.

Edit: I also wish to congratulate you on not saying "Who's there?"... correctly assessing that I had, in fact, already finished my joke.
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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 21:08   #8
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Re: The big picture

Can someone please explain the joke because either I understood it and it wasn't funny or I didn't understand it and it wasn't funny. If the joke is that no-one knows the plan then...
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Unread 19 Jan 2008, 21:11   #9
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Can someone please explain the joke because either I understood it and it wasn't funny or I didn't understand it and it wasn't funny. If the joke is that no-one knows the plan then...
I believe the joke is that Kargool might live in Luton
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Unread 20 Jan 2008, 12:36   #10
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Re: The big picture

The big picture...?
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Unread 20 Jan 2008, 12:56   #11
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I believe the joke is that Kargool might live in Luton
he lives in Norway, he's just a supporter of Luton Town football club
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Unread 21 Jan 2008, 15:15   #12
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
he lives in Norway, he's just a supporter of Luton Town football club
Now that, I find amusing.
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Unread 21 Jan 2008, 19:22   #13
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Re: The big picture

well done the mentioning of dadaism. Infact it was a war (world war I) that started this whole concept of all for nothing.

Despite all the progress, technological prowess and consistent evolution of europe, in a matter of months it was thrown in a senseless barbaric bloodshed, and for what? gaining or losing a few meters of muddy, infertile useless soil.

If it wasnt for WWI there would be no Freud or NIetzche. The lack of faith in progress, or even that mankind was evolving, was what made possible the dadaism, and the arisal of currents of thought that show humans to be capable of terrible things, despite all the body of knowledge accumulated through.
The so called modernism came in stark contrast of Positivism, by saying that humans were not geting necessarily better by learning, studying or research more.

Therefore, there is actually no sense in trying to evolve, trying to achieve things. As the play Waiting for Godot says, albeit being more of a existialist post war period show, life itself is pointless, and we are all alone in this world.

therefore a toilet in the middle of a room is perfect reasonable ( the most famous dadaist work of art is a porcelain mictorium hanging around a regular room, am i rite?)
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Unread 21 Jan 2008, 19:31   #14
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Morte
If it wasnt for WWI there would be no Freud or NIetzche.
I knew the dastardly hun developed time travel technology :argh:
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Unread 21 Jan 2008, 19:38   #15
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I knew the dastardly hun developed time travel technology :argh:

I meant that people wouldnt know of them, because they were underground professionals in their respective fields, because they painted a dark, somber figure of humans, in a epoch where everybody thought humans where great, evolving and becoming better.

Only After the suicidal attempt of europe on wwi, and the acknowledgement that 'civilized' socienties are different at carnage from tribal societies only because they can murder with industrial efficiency and quantity is that such thinkers became mainstream!
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Unread 21 Jan 2008, 20:21   #16
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
Sorry, i'm having trouble understanding what you're saying. Is what i quoted your own view or part of an art history summary?
Historically, this play, a masterpiece of post war existentialism, wants to prove that we are all alone in the world, and it befalls to us to solve all our problems, we are the source of pain and joy and we must accept this lonelyness.

The trying to evolve bit is more of a 'fight club' approach to a historical opinion that being technologically advanced means squat in matters of moral and ethics, that often the simpler things are the better, and progress, broadly speaking, is not always of the best interest to mankind
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Unread 21 Jan 2008, 21:38   #17
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
i don't think you'd find many people willing to defend the idea that technologically advanced societies are necessarily morally "superior" simply because they have big machines. but that doesn't mean it's impossible to be morally superior.
Unfortunately, I have to respectfully disagree.
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Unread 22 Jan 2008, 11:58   #18
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Exclamation Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Why did the gorilla fall out of the tree? It was dead.
Why did the second gorilla fall out of the tree? It was following the first.
Why did the third gorilla fall out of the tree? It thought the other two were playing a game.
Why did the refrigerator fall out of the tree? The branch broke.
Why did the girl fall off her bike? Because she had three friggin gorillas and a refrigerator fall on her.
Why did the boy fall out of the swing? Because he had no arms.
That's actually pretty good. The first line is the best, though.
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Unread 22 Jan 2008, 12:15   #19
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
i don't think you'd find many people willing to defend the idea that technologically advanced societies are necessarily morally "superior" simply because they have big machines. but that doesn't mean it's impossible to be morally superior.


Just to be argumentative ...

"Morality is a set of values or rules which a particular society holds and which enable said society to function productively."

As such there is no universal creed. Morals differ from society to society.

For example during a war both societies would hold their values, making them equal in that respect, but the society which won, in this example the one with the bigger machines, would be more moral as they are more productive.

In short, the most productive society is the most moral.
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Unread 22 Jan 2008, 12:55   #20
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by You Are Gay
Just to be argumentative ...

"Morality is a set of values or rules which a particular society holds and which enable said society to function productively."

As such there is no universal creed. Morals differ from society to society .

For example during a war both societies would hold their values, making them equal in that respect, but the society which won, in this example the one with the bigger machines, would be more moral as they are more productive.

In short, the most productive society is the most moral.
Having the benefit of hindsight, i can tell you that as far as treatment of women is concerned, the Ianomami indians had a more ethical and moral treatment towards them then the victorian england did.

ianomami women are just as respected as men, while beating up your wife was tottally acceptable in the UK.

How about that?


I think that what horn meant is that there are some rules that apply everywhere, like the ten commandments(pause for comic relief).

A society that accepts prejudice of any kind, slavery and/or other forms of human degradation is absolutely inferior in morality and ethics.

Like in russia, when they tried to make a gay pride parade and then people started beating up the homos. They called the police, and they came to help cracking the skulls of gay people ( of course.. they brought steel batons) That shows how inferior Russia is in this aspect compared to Holland, where anyone can express they sexuality in any way desired.
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Unread 22 Jan 2008, 13:50   #21
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Morte
Having the benefit of hindsight, i can tell you that as far as treatment of women is concerned, the Ianomami indians had a more ethical and moral treatment towards them then the victorian england did.

ianomami women are just as respected as men, while beating up your wife was tottally acceptable in the UK.

How about that?


How about you tell me which one of those two cultures created the largest empire the world has known and then think about how i said the most productive society was the most moral.
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Unread 22 Jan 2008, 21:06   #22
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Morte
the Ianomami indians had a more ethical and moral treatment towards them then the victorian england did.

ianomami women are just as respected as men, while beating up your wife was tottally acceptable in the UK.
clearly you are confusing 'Victorian England' with 'living in glasgow'
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Unread 23 Jan 2008, 23:14   #23
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
clearly you are confusing 'Victorian England' with 'living in glasgow'
It's unacceptable to beat your wife in Glasgow?
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Unread 23 Jan 2008, 23:44   #24
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Re: The big picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
It's unacceptable to beat your wife in Glasgow?
Yeah, has been for nearly a week now
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Unread 24 Jan 2008, 02:17   #25
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Re: The big picture

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Yeah, has been for nearly a week now
Nah last time i was in town i hear its still socially acceptable if you have had more than 7 pints of stella....
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Unread 3 Feb 2008, 06:11   #26
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Re: The big picture

As an official representative for Scotland, I'd like to make it clear that this is isolated solely to the Glasgow region and only utilised by Rangers supporters.
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Unread 3 Feb 2008, 06:31   #27
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Re: The big picture

Govan area etc...
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