User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Non Planetarion Discussions > General Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 23 Oct 2007, 22:56   #51
Allfather
The PropaGhandi
 
Allfather's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 796
Allfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these parts
Re: OiNK closed down...

Dont know whats worse: people hosting illegal sites in a place like great britain or jakiri just now hearing about bad company

My first lp with them i got in the 80s, and they are still wastly superior to most modern "rockbands".
__________________
Free imagehosting: Link
Free scans: #transcendancy

<Deffeh> I just told my parents im a homosexual, now they kicked me out
Allfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Oct 2007, 22:59   #52
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
while i could understand someone's annoyance at someone else enjoying their produce while contributing nothing
Really? It's always seen quite a strange notion to me. If you produce something cool and other people enjoy it, that to me seems a good day. Sure, it'd be an even better day if they deposited money into your bank account for the privilege and/or sent round their girlfriend to your home as a thank you present, but hey life's not perfect.

I don't see why I (or anyone) should have expectations of being paid simply because a lot (or a little) effort is put into something. If the world worked that way we'd all be sending hundreds of pounds to the sort of people who film themselves playing Mario 3 all the way through while hanging upside down and blindfolded.

Quote:
the problem is that there is no way you'd realistically be able to implement a system that allowed those who "were never going to buy the record" a free listen.
The system for distribution is already there and working fine thanks. It's the systems for maintaining artificial scarcity which seems to be having a harder time over the last few years. Obviously this state intervention will continue for a while yet, but like most subsidies, the prospects do not look good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Noone was forcing him to do it. I guess he's just a modern day saint, an internet pioneer, fighting against the evil music corporation machine.
No, they weren't. But the point is that someone has forced him to stop. What his motivations were don't really interest me. Maybe he did it to score with all the hot chicks, cos everyone loves a sysadmin of a major site. Or maybe it was memory of his little brother who died of aids. Why does it matter? Does it mysteriously become evil if he turns a profit one quarter?
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Oct 2007, 23:06   #53
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Really? It's always seen quite a strange notion to me. If you produce something cool and other people enjoy it, that to me seems a good day. Sure, it'd be an even better day if they deposited money into your bank account for the privilege and/or sent round their girlfriend to your home as a thank you present, but hey life's not perfect.
I agree. If someone distributed a few of the stories I've written (as long as they didn't claim it was theirs etc) and they became popular, I'd be really chuffed. I don't make a living from writing stories (or I'd be on the streets am i rite!) though - I think that's the difference. We can't understand because we don't make an income from our intellectual property.
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Oct 2007, 23:22   #54
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
We can't understand because we don't make an income from our intellectual property.
Just because someone does make an income from something doesn't mean they should make an income from that thing. Nor is "you haven't been there, you just don't get it man" a meaningful contribution to an argument.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Oct 2007, 23:23   #55
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
We can't understand because we don't make an income from our intellectual property.
There's a lot of anecdotal evidence about obscure bands actually hosting their albums on Oink in order to get more exposure. There's also been a large number of high quality leaked pre-release recordings, that were basically rips of the final thing, that started appearing after a run of high profile poor leaks which leads to conspiracy theories about the bands leaking their own albums to make sure people hear it as they intended.
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Oct 2007, 23:47   #56
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Just because someone does make an income from something doesn't mean they should make an income from that thing.
Like a 24 year old from Middlesborough making a living from "selling" artist's music, without their permission or giving them any of his income...?
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 00:16   #57
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: OiNK closed down...

except he didn't make his living from it, as he had a job as described in the article
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 00:28   #58
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Like a 24 year old from Middlesborough making a living from "selling" artist's music, without their permission or giving them any of his income...?
Indeed if that was true it would be quite right to question it. Nor did you address the second point of my criticism concerning your pointless relativism.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 00:31   #59
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,584
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: OiNK closed down...

and that he wasnt arrested for distribution or anything.
Hell they had to arrest him under the trademarks act - desperately stretching it to see if they can pin something on him regardless of the legality
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 00:41   #60
Yahwe
I am.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
and that he wasnt arrested for distribution or anything.
Hell they had to arrest him under the trademarks act - desperately stretching it to see if they can pin something on him regardless of the legality
errrrrrrrrrr....

he distributed trademarked material ....

which act did you think they'd use?
__________________
hi
Yahwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 00:45   #61
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,584
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
errrrrrrrrrr....

he distributed trademarked material ....

which act did you think they'd use?
except he didnt
tvlinks provided links to other places who then distributed it.
If they had a solid case on him distributing copyrighted material they would have used the copyright laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by theregister
"I've never heard of using trademarks law for anything like this,"said Struan Robertson, legal eagle at Pinsent Masons, and editor of Out-Law.com.
"There are criminal provisions in the Trade Marks Act, but they are intended to catch the sale of counterfeit goods, not the supply of a service. I'd be surprised if the provision of links was found to be a criminal offence under the Trade Marks Act."
Indeed, section 92 is very clear that:
"A person does not commit an offence under this section unless- (a) the goods are goods in respect of which the trade mark is registered, or (b) the trade mark has a reputation in the United Kingdom and the use of the sign takes or would take unfair advantage of, or is or would be detrimental to, the distinctive character or the repute of the trade mark."
There has been no suggestion (so far) that TV-Links was involved in anything other than providing access, via web links, to copyrighted material.
Robertson speculated that they'd have a better chance of bringing a case for copyright offenses, but even that would be on new legal ground.
"They'd have to show that he was distributing or communicating copyrighted works. And that is a legal argument to be had between the prosecution and defence. It sounds like they are trying to crow-bar activity that looks wrong into laws that aren't really designed to deal with it," he told us.
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 00:48   #62
Yahwe
I am.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
except he didnt
tvlinks provided links to other places who then distributed it.
If they had a solid case on him distributing copyrighted material they would have used the copyright laws
I am afraid that I can not comment.

EDIT: btw ... Struan is at Stephenson Harwood not Pinsent Masons and ...

Struan is a partner, advising banks, ship owners and operators on a variety of financial and commercial contracts and has been nominated continuously as one of the leading experts in ship finance by Legal 500 since 1999. Struan also leads our Islamic Finance team.
He has assisted buyers in their acquisition of a leading Norwegian public company, a European bank in an innovative buyer credit scheme for a major Russian Oil Group and the owners and operators of a unique residential cruise vessel in relation to various issues.
Struan participates actively in the development and use of the London Shipping Law Centre and is a Deputy Chairman of the International Maritime Industries Forum, a body dedicated to the promotion of the maritime industries. He is a keen supporter of the inland waterways of the United Kingdom and their use and enjoyment.
Struan joined the firm in 2002 following the merger with Sinclair Roche & Temperley
__________________
hi

Last edited by Yahwe; 24 Oct 2007 at 01:32.
Yahwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 00:49   #63
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Nor is "you haven't been there, you just don't get it man" a meaningful contribution to an argument.
Doing something for a hobby or because you enjoy it is quite different to doing it because it is all you have for an income to support your life. That was my point, although feel free to push this debate into "How to destroy an internet discussion with snide putdowners on how to argue on the internet 101"... again
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 01:15   #64
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Doing something for a hobby or because you enjoy it is quite different to doing it because it is all you have for an income to support your life.
One rather doubts they're all physically incapable of finding gainful employment elsewhere.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 01:23   #65
Tactitus
Klaatu barada nikto
 
Tactitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,238
Tactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
A better example might be newspaper sales. The news is available for free online, yet newspaper sales (as far as I'm aware!) haven't dropped significantly.
They've dropped significantly in the US. Newspaper circulation (daily) peaked in 1984 and has been declining ever since (down nearly 20%). I don't know if that's all due to the internet, but it's probably true in my case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I don't see why I (or anyone) should have expectations of being paid simply because a lot (or a little) effort is put into something.
I doubt most people have such expectations. People pay for value, not for effort. If I spend 10 years writing a book and no one reads it, then fair enough--it's me that's out the 10 years. However, if and to the extent that people do read it then I might expect some compensation--not for my effort but for the value (entertainment, knowledge, etc) they derive from it.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
Tactitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 03:33   #66
milo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
milo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: OiNK closed down...

The only hope the authorities have is to start a massive campaign making downloading music comparable to downloading child porn. otherwise i don't really see what the point of any of these raids are. Its hardly like they've dented anyones ability to get that music.

Nevertheless the discussion above on 'worth' is interesting. It reminds me of one of the videos that angrynintendonerd person on YT made, in it he commented that back in the days of the NES you'd pay /$50 for a computer game without having any real appreciation of how shit it truly was. There was no internet to provide real discussion and the major widely available magazines were little more than corporate add ons. I may not pay musicians for taking their time to compile music; but on the other hand i don't have to pay them for wasting my time wading through crap, it all balances out.

This is an interesting essay that sort of covers some of these issues, its about the amen break
__________________
boobs
milo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 04:49   #67
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
i don't really see what the point of any of these raids are. Its hardly like they've dented anyones ability to get that music.
Well yes, they have. Massively.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 07:49   #68
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Doing something for a hobby or because you enjoy it is quite different to doing it because it is all you have for an income to support your life. That was my point, although feel free to push this debate into "How to destroy an internet discussion with snide putdowners on how to argue on the internet 101"... again
Hey I mentioned some anecdotal evidence or something that talked about this, maybe you should comment on that rather than ignoring something that doesn't fit in with your worldview like normal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Well yes, they have. Massively.
They haven't dented the ability to get the really big name crap that they care about at all, so milo is correct in a way.
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 08:06   #69
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
We can't understand because we don't make an income from our intellectual property.
If I made my money from people smuggling I guess that might give me an added insight/empathy to snakehead gangs, but I doubt that would substantially change the debate.

And I'm certainly paid on the basis of my intellectual labours (such as they are), I'm just doing so under contract. Nothing is stopping the individuals in question doing something similar (and indeed, many no doubt do).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tact
However, if and to the extent that people do read it then I might expect some compensation--not for my effort but for the value (entertainment, knowledge, etc) they derive from it.
On this basis, I expected compensation for all the wisdom I've imparted on GD, but instead I got a writ for damages through the post.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 08:25   #70
newt
Banned
 
newt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blackburn
Posts: 897
newt has much to be proud ofnewt has much to be proud ofnewt has much to be proud ofnewt has much to be proud ofnewt has much to be proud ofnewt has much to be proud ofnewt has much to be proud ofnewt has much to be proud of
Re: OiNK closed down...

Oink was just a poor man's news-server. While I'm here, it still true that its only illegal to upload pirated stuff, not to download it? (or "properly" illegal).

My 2p on the matter - overall, file sharing is blatantly losing the industry money. But its all coming out of the big bands'/companies pockets - the small band is obviously making a profit. Therefore.. who gives a ****.
newt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 10:35   #71
All Systems Go
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,348
All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Before arguing with someone, it would be wise to check on their opinion...
Am I wrong? Has anything you've said in this thread amounted to anything more than 'I don't really care enough to not do it, but it's still wrong to steal from these poor musicians'?

Quote:
Do you have the link to these figures available?
This guy still worked, so whether he was making any profit is debatable. There is no mention of any wads of cash being seized nor is there any indication he made a personal profit off it. When you see these kinds of piracy stories, you get '250,000 worth of pirate DVDs seized' or some other ludicrous figure and this doesn't even imply such as thing. But whether he did nor not is irrelevent anyway.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
All Systems Go is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 12:55   #72
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Am I wrong? Has anything you've said in this thread amounted to anything more than 'I don't really care enough to not do it, but it's still wrong to steal from these poor musicians'?
No ASG, you're completely right, that's my entire point summarised into one sentence

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Hey I mentioned some anecdotal evidence or something that talked about this, maybe you should comment on that rather than ignoring something that doesn't fit in with your worldview like normal
I ignored your post because you couldn't seem to decide whether to discuss this rationally with horn, or make silly little jokes at him to annoy him.



It is interesting though - everyone who is "anti-oink closure" are those who I guessed would be biased against it. In other words, those who used Oink and are now a little peeved they can't download free music any more
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 13:31   #73
Marilyn Manson
Gone
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,659
Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It is interesting though - everyone who is "anti-oink closure" are those who I guessed would be biased against it.
Dude, most people have some kind of personal interest in things they feel strongly about. It's the way o' deh world.
Marilyn Manson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 13:50   #74
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I ignored your post because you couldn't seem to decide whether to discuss this rationally with horn, or make silly little jokes at him to annoy him.
Well, it's either make silly jokes or go over the same material again and again and again while he changes his position and claims he didn't and then changes his position back to the first thing when the contradiction is pointed out and claims he never held the second position. Horn's questions/arguments were basically irrelevent to what I was saying.

Very good of you to play the white knight for lunatics, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It is interesting though - everyone who is "anti-oink closure" are those who I guessed would be biased against it. In other words, those who used Oink and are now a little peeved they can't download free music any more
Yeah this is just like that thing about smoking in public places am I rite

It's also interesting that everyone who is "anti-oink closure" are those I guessed would be biased against it based on their beliefs in the areas of intellectual property and personal freedoms, and are now a little peeved that what could be argued is a positive expression of those philosophies has been shut down by THE MAN.

People having consistent opinions? Say it aint so!
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 13:51   #75
Yahwe
I am.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Yahwe has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Very good of you to play the white knight for lunatics, though.
tom does rather walk into these things ... bless him
__________________
hi
Yahwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 14:00   #76
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

hey ive changed my beliefs about intellectual property somewhat over the last few months so screw you haters and your allegations of consistency
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 14:00   #77
milo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
milo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Well yes, they have. Massively.

What jakiri said, i very much doubt the BPI has the interests of one man bands foremost in its thoughts. In addition its worth pointing out oink was bittorrent oriented, that isn't the only way music is spread - everyone has their own preference from other p2p networks to newsgroups to just posting 'one-click hosters' links in forums (rapidshare etc). My point was that taken as a whole they haven't dented the internets ability to spread music.
__________________
boobs
milo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 14:01   #78
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
hey ive changed my beliefs about intellectual property somewhat over the last few months so **** you haters
You have mad opinions anyway, I don't think anyone notices when you change anything because it could just be the result of a change in something else noone cares about.
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 14:04   #79
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

i actually have very strong and developed opinions about both the state of online space-based MMORPGs and the anime world allow me to share them with you;
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 14:08   #80
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
My point was that taken as a whole they haven't dented the internets ability to spread music.
They have though, oink was a respository for stuff which would be extremely hard to get anywhere else (including shops in some cases). Its somewhat ironic that the stuff the RIAA cares about (mainstream chart music) is precisely the stuff you can get on pretty much every p2p network easily, whereas oink's virtues lay elsewhere.

Oink being shut down is a huge huge blow to music distribution on the internet, its nonsense to talk about it like its just one tracker out of hundreds being closed.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 14:29   #81
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
i actually have very strong and developed opinions about both the state of online space-based MMORPGs and the anime world allow me to share them with you;
furthermore,
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 14:53   #82
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Well, it's either make silly jokes or go over the same material again and again and again while he changes his position and claims he didn't and then changes his position back to the first thing when the contradiction is pointed out and claims he never held the second position. Horn's questions/arguments were basically irrelevent to what I was saying.
I know you find it hard, but most other people can see arguments from both sides and it is possible to change your opinion over the course of time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Yeah this is just like that thing about smoking in public places am I rite
Where I was repeatedly criticised for using my personal opinion (pro-smoking-ban) ? Yeah - it is. Yet it's ok here for you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
People having consistent opinions? Say it aint so!
Most people can also argue either side of a point...
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 15:00   #83
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I know you find it hard, but most other people can see arguments from both sides and it is possible to change your opinion over the course of time.
Yes that's totally what I said well done cutting through the chaff of the argument you're like some kind of spiritual leader or something the new GD buddha

(Oh hey this is like when horn was making comments that weren't related to what I said at all, funny that)

(Another thing to note is that I find this really quite comedic given your utter inability to consider other points of view, and the way that I've repeatedly changed my opinion on things where I've been given evidence opposed to what I was proposing)

(If you need even MORE clarification to stop you going wah wah the mean jakiri's being mean to me, horn was NOT changing his opinion over the course of the argument, not just saying "yeah, I changed my mind". He was presenting a totally opposed view and presenting it as what he had been saying all along.

"1+2 = 2"
"But 1+2 = 3, why did you say 1+2 = 2?"
"What? I never said 1+2 = 2 you ****ing retard")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Where I was repeatedly criticised for using my personal opinion (pro-smoking-ban) ? Yeah - it is. Yet it's ok here for you?
You support the smoking ban due to what basically amounted to self interest, something you are claiming is the only motive in others.

I oppose the smoking ban.

The question you have to answer is: Do I smoke?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Most people can also argue either side of a point...
Please give reasons why this is relevent or it'll just be more fuel for the "TK is an idiot and shouldn't be allowed near children" pyre.
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 15:03   #84
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Space Invaders Champion, Alien Invasion Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion, Squid Hunter Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,485
Mzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
They have though, oink was a respository for stuff which would be extremely hard to get anywhere else (including shops in some cases). Its somewhat ironic that the stuff the RIAA cares about (mainstream chart music) is precisely the stuff you can get on pretty much every p2p network easily, whereas oink's virtues lay elsewhere.
I mostly use(d) OiNK for stuff that was relatively easy to find, turning to SoulSeek for more obscure music (its greatest advantage being that people share all their music, all the time, rather than just the tiny portion of it that they have in their client). Then again, I guess the average music listener (or even the average OiNK user) would consider the rarest music on OiNK fairly obscure already. Or maybe I'm just spoilt, to members of smaller private music trackers, OiNK is(was) probably like heaven on earth.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 15:06   #85
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

As I seem to be having a similar yet different discussion with 4 different people:

While some people seem to think I have a solid view on this, I actually don't. I made the thread because I was interested in how this closure might affect music sales in general (online or otherwise). Instead it's descended into a simpleton's argument of "this is a bad thing because it's affected me" or "it's a good thing because it's affected me". I only countered people's arguments because I wanted to stimulate a discussion - it could quite easily have gone the other way. Don't assume that because I counter your point, I have strong views countering it.

While I myself am guilty of the anecdotal example ("this is how I look at it, so I assume everyone else is too!") it's a pretty terrible way of discussing things. I can see both sides of the argument, but that isn't what I care about - it doesn't have to be "i am pro downloading free music!" or "i am anti downloading free music!". There is a grey area, guys

I'm more interested in the repercussions of this. Jakiri has said that the main reasons he liked Oink are:
  1. It allowed him to listen to music that he otherwise wouldn't have.
  2. It allowed him to obtain music that is very hard to get elsewhere.
  3. It provided lossless files.

All interesting reasons - I didn't know Oink did this. I doubt the closure will affect lots of people - all those "popular" artists like Beyonce and Justin Timberlake still have masses of torrents circulating the net.

So what's the impact? Surely there's a niche in the market for a website that can provide what oink was providing, but "legally" and with extras? Maybe people could download poor samples from bands for a reduced cost (10p a track?) which then goes to the artist. If they like it, they can then upgrade it to a FLAC file for another 10-20p.
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 15:14   #86
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Part of the issue with some of the things are licensing ones, the same reason you'll never see the Alan Moore/Neil Gaiman comic Marvelman (later renamed Miracleman due to the interference of Marvel comics) released again.

There's also moral grey areas (although not legal ones) with things like the NIN back catalogue. Reznor basically wants to give his music out to all and sundry, but he doesn't have any rights for the songs, and there's cases of musicians having to resort to legal action to get the rights to msuic that their publishers are either no longer publishing or have never published, but nevertheless own.

FLAC (or another lossless codec of choice) is also much more obscure than the "industry standards" MP3 and whatever horrible proprietry formats the large companies want to come out with. I'd imagine a fair amount of music is bought for putting on a mobile magic music box thing such as an iPod, but very few of them support FLAC or even the relatively known, but now relatively defunct, Ogg Vorbis.

On a purely thievery level, I also liked downloading other recordings of Wagner operas. In almost all cases the conductor and composer are dead, and I'm not paying through the nose to have a slightly different interpretation of the bacchanal from Tannhauser. In some cases they're not being published still, so that's another issue.
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 15:18   #87
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

In terms of old artists you wanted to buy; are CDs etc still being produced with their albums on?

I think if a computer game goes out of circulation, it's fine to download it for free online. Is it not the same for music*? If not, why not



*i thought i typed this in my post above but after re-reading i must have deleted it
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 15:24   #88
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
In terms of old artists you wanted to buy; are CDs etc still being produced with their albums on?
This doesn't apply for very many things, as in almost all cases we're talking about opera which has a slightly different thing going on. Actual albums I downloaded have generally been for current bands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I think if a computer game goes out of circulation, it's fine to download it for free online. Is it not the same for music*? If not, why not
The situation with games and music is, as far as I'm aware, identical legally. The difference is that there's no industry wide gaming body similar to the RIAA that has decided to aggressively defend its old properties, although games are taken down fairly often from sites like Underdogs at the request of the IP holders.

Having said that, technological concerns, and advances, are much more of an issue with games than with music - Hardwar was a fairly competent Elite clone back in its day, but noone's going to pay full price for it because the industry has moved on, whereas it's less clear cut to say that the "value" of something like a popular Oingo Boingo album from the 80's has dropped.

In related areas, the industry is still pushing for increases in the length of copyright for things like music. Cliff Richard needs the money!
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 15:49   #89
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
where did this happen
The KOTOR2 argument was the first example, and probably the best. Not really worth getting into at this point, because the argument appears to have settled down into point/counterpoint again.*

Re: the information, I'm having trouble finding it because it was about 5 years ago at this point - so I don't know how applicable it would be anyway.

In the course of attempting with the finding of it I found http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/4044303.stm though, and a few articles on research that suggest that the reason for any slump in music sales could probably be more attributed to the death of the single. DVD sales are up, cinema revenues are down, restaurant sales are up.

So maybe I was wrong (or out of date). Haven't really found anything clear cut except from the IFPI who have somewhat of a vested interest.

[edit]

*And there it goes again

Last edited by MrL_JaKiri; 24 Oct 2007 at 16:09.
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 16:07   #90
All Systems Go
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,348
All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
No ASG, you're completely right, that's my entire point summarised into one sentence
So what is your argument?
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
All Systems Go is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 16:13   #91
All Systems Go
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,348
All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Instead it's descended into a simpleton's argument of "this is a bad thing because it's affected me"
Out of interest, who do you think made this argument?

Quote:
So what's the impact? Surely there's a niche in the market for a website that can provide what oink was providing, but "legally" and with extras? Maybe people could download poor samples from bands for a reduced cost (10p a track?) which then goes to the artist. If they like it, they can then upgrade it to a FLAC file for another 10-20p.
A lot of the rare stuff isn't available throguh legal means, due to people holding the copyright being unwilling to release it or whatever the legal situation happens to be.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
All Systems Go is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 16:16   #92
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
In the course of attempting with the finding of it I found http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/4044303.stm though, and a few articles on research that suggest that the reason for any slump in music sales could probably be more attributed to the death of the single.
From the site, it sounds more like sales were on the rise because of people being able to pay for music online from legitimate websites ("With online sales stripped out, singles sales were down by 12%"). Surely sites that provide torrents for free undermine these websites?
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 16:19   #93
All Systems Go
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,348
All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

I'd just like to point out that singles are an inherently shit way of selling music. They are far too expensive and there is a tendancy to put out several versions of a single and have different B-sides on each version, which is a piss-take in itself.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
All Systems Go is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 16:22   #94
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,483
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
2: i don't think the "death of the single" is much of a reason to suggest piracy isn't the reason for decline in the music industrys' income.
Interestingly enough, I found something from IFPI that said that the actual number of album sales was the same in 2002 as it was in 2001 (the time of the single biggest revenue decrease), but album revenues were down a few percent due to lower prices. And here's a quote from the BPI:

Quote:
Between 1998 and 2002, worldwide sales of recorded music fell by 18 per cent. Over the same period the value of sales in the UK rose by six per cent
On the topic of the single, it's been dying for years. Top of the Pops was over the hill long before the rise of Napster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
From the site, it sounds more like sales were on the rise because of people being able to pay for music online from legitimate websites ("With online sales stripped out, singles sales were down by 12%"). Surely sites that provide torrents for free undermine these websites?
The quote from the BPI above shows that isn't the case, and even if I hadn't dug it up I don't think your statement is valid. Even if it was valid, then it's the music industry's fault for not providing a service that lots of people obviously want.
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 16:34   #95
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Interestingly enough, I found something from IFPI that said that the actual number of album sales was the same in 2002 as it was in 2001 (the time of the single biggest revenue decrease), but album revenues were down a few percent due to lower prices.
Why did they lower their prices, do you think...? :economics:


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
On the topic of the single, it's been dying for years. Top of the Pops was over the hill long before the rise of Napster.
What does TOTP have to do with it? MTV etc are still going strong, and they only show/play singles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Even if it was valid, then it's the music industry's fault for not providing a service that lots of people obviously want.
What do they want? Free access to music? The simple facts are that it costs money to make music - by CDs, studio time, equipment, marketing, wages, etc. It can't be completely free. There needs to be a compromise where a nominal amount is paid for music to keep artists creating it - getting it completely free goes against this.
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 16:42   #96
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
What does TOTP have to do with it? MTV etc are still going strong, and they only show/play singles.
mtv shows about a hour of music, if that, a day
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 16:58   #97
Tomkat
:alpha:
 
Tomkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Tomkat has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
mtv shows about a hour of music, if that, a day
MTV1, sure. What about MTV Base, MTV Dance, MTV Hits, MTV Two, MTV R, MTV Flux, VH1 UK, VH1 Classic UK? (...etc)
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
Tomkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 17:35   #98
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I mostly use(d) OiNK for stuff that was relatively easy to find, turning to SoulSeek for more obscure music (its greatest advantage being that people share all their music, all the time, rather than just the tiny portion of it that they have in their client).h.
haha soulseek
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 18:00   #99
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: OiNK closed down...

I never used oink


But as we're doing self-interest arguments (apparently) there's about one song a year I actually like so I propose shortening the length of copyright validity down to, say, 2 years. So I won't listen to new music. All works out for the best!


Except for new artists who go hungry I guess but let's face it most of them are angsty twats who could do with a bit of starvation therapy.





[Next week on tomkat predicts it all we will hear that human beings don't want their supply of oxygen to be cut off. Truly a programme worth tuning in for!]
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Oct 2007, 18:01   #100
Marilyn Manson
Gone
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,659
Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
but let's face it most of them are angsty twats who could do with a bit of starvation therapy.
That's what Peel said about the Irish fyi.
Marilyn Manson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2018