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Unread 23 Apr 2015, 21:43   #1
XTC 69
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mass NAPing- yawn boring

Alliance mass NAPing each other is so lame. PA is meant to a warfare game meaning fight not avoidance. Kind of defeats the whole object of the game sitting on the fence.

Amount of NAPs New Dawn and Rouges are currently fighting it out for champion avoiders with NAPS to probably 3/4 of the universe.

Since round start until recently P3nguins were avoidance leaders . But they are still the champion bottom feeders and #1 PA criminals by their repeated targeting of non top 50 galaxy's. They can be so proud at the end of the round how they may only be a shadow of what they once were but they have kept in the top 10. Avoiding incs from x y and z allys having NAPed their way through since tick one whilst sending 4 waves of 3 fleets a time at the same few gals that dont contain members from any of their NAPs

Sort it out ffs before you kill the game completely . Mass Naps were boring in r3 r4 r5 etc when there was 20,000 plus players and even more boring now with only 700
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Unread 23 Apr 2015, 22:21   #2
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Maybe they should reduce tags in half as i said and create more alliances, or increase limits to make it so its possible to join one of two tags

*yawn*
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Unread 23 Apr 2015, 22:51   #3
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Although i agree that rogues has taken naps to a bit of a slightly mad extreme, you are mistaken if you think this has been about avoiding war. Almost everyone is consistently targetting someone else atm, there is war, both closer fought than last round and involving almost everyone in some way. The web of NAPs is about allies securing their backs so they can fight someone else, not about trying to avoid all incs.
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Unread 23 Apr 2015, 23:04   #4
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
Maybe they should reduce tags in half as i said and create more alliances, or increase limits to make it so its possible to join one of two tags

*yawn*
I thought he said that the small tags had too many NAPs?
Why make more small tags then
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Unread 23 Apr 2015, 23:08   #5
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Further to that, it seems to me that complaints about NAPatarion are something of a constant, but i wonder about it. It seems to me wars are much more common and sustained than they once where. When I came back to the game last round I was surprised that allies spent perhaps 75% of the round p-targetting each other and incs on gal were as a result almost continual. This is not my memory of having previously played PA at all when P-targetting was I would say rather less than 50% of the time perhaps considerably less.
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Unread 24 Apr 2015, 07:43   #6
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I thought he said that the small tags had too many NAPs?
Why make more small tags then
Would rather explain this to someone coherent. Already explained it once
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 08:04   #7
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by XTC 69 View Post
Amount of NAPs New Dawn and Rouges are currently fighting it out for champion avoiders with NAPS to probably 3/4 of the universe.
Rogues might have taken things to an extreme but a large number of our naps are actually either to enable, or to end wars rather than being about avoiding incs. Ironically if you had made this post about us a couple of weeks into the round you when we had no naps you would have been spot on - we had a great web of agreements at a lower level than a nap to avoid incs (though this was because we did not have all our defence systems in place so it was necessary).

Now however we have 6 NAPs and 1 Alliance. Excessive? probably, but it is also mostly not about avoiding incs. Faceless and Ultores are napped/allied because we are on their side in a war against Black Flag (and previously CT) as such these have actually brought us more incs not less.

CT and Rainbows were both to end the wars we were having with them - we might have done so out of the game system but one side or the other wanted the security an ingame nap would offer against conflict restarting.

HR and ND were our partners in our war with Rainbows.

As such all of our NAPs/Alliances are about war, not avoiding it. We could probably drop almost all of the NAPs (the exception being CT) and record very little increase in incs because everyone is distracted with their own wars so uninterested in rogues.

That said as noted earlier this charge would have been bang on earlier in the round, before we had NAPs. So don't always just believe what you see ingame!
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 09:02   #8
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

You're in 3 unrelated wars simultaneously? That sounds like a failure of politics to me. That's really not anyone's problem but your own, though.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 09:11   #9
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

These were in succession: Against rainbows allied with HR and ND, peace made with a NAP. Which allowed rogues to intervene in the already ongoing ult/FL vs CT/BF war. CT thumped rogues who then backed out of that half of the war through a nap with CT, but as Im sure everyone is aware the larger war with BF goes on and rogues continues to be part of it.
The disadvantage of all these NAPs is that if or when the general war with BF ends rogues will be in a dreadful position. It either makes peace with BF leaving it with almost no possible targets unless it breaks agreements made with others, or else it fights on alone and gets flattened!
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 11:30   #10
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

That's why you set end dates for NAPs like that: not to pledge undying love for each other, but to stop incidental attacks that will re-inflame the situation. The war may be over, but you're still not exactly buddies. Once your members are committed to a new war with another alliance, you can drop it again. That goes for both sides, so temporary NAPs are a great way of achieving either side's goals. You can still do that after the fact, but then you risk your partner seeing that NAP drop as a betrayal, even if it's not intended as one.

Political arrangements in general explicitly need to be set such that they can fit a fluid situation. When they aren't, that both reduces your alliance's options and stagnates the round as a whole. Rogues is currently running (or will soon run) into the first problem, and Cloud's attitude of we will never backstab Ultores was a perfect example of the latter one, the term 'backstab' being the keyword in that sentence.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 12:27   #11
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
HR and ND were our partners in our war with Rainbows.
HR/ND/Rogues/HODORS vs BowS, sounds like a fair match up
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 13:12   #12
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Bows hit rogues heavily (and vice versa) right from the start, as a DC i resisted calls for war, but really you and p3n gave us all our incs so there was little choice. I have no idea how those others became involved. However, with you allied to p3n and p3n consistently hitting us heavily anyway the HC had every right to expect their entry into the war on your side and find allies accordingly. In practice they did no more than continue to be our no.1 hostile until we finally NAPped them just before we began to fight CT.

A small alliance being ganged up on by other small alliances, surely in part implies a diplomatic failure on the side of the victim. Annoying several others unnecessarily.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 13:50   #13
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
just before we began to fight CT.
wait wat?
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 14:18   #14
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

OK OK, they fought us and we achieved little in return!
They sent between 60 and 70 of their fleets at us for 3 days, Monday to Wednesday, you will notice on kia that we hardly grew while CT grew substantially.
CT was ofc splitting their fire, attacking faceless as well, also with considerable success it seems. Since BF was taking the heat from the Ult/FL block, CT was free to three fleet attack.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 14:56   #15
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Bows hit rogues heavily (and vice versa) right from the start, as a DC i resisted calls for war, but really you and p3n gave us all our incs so there was little choice. I have no idea how those others became involved. However, with you allied to p3n and p3n consistently hitting us heavily anyway the HC had every right to expect their entry into the war on your side and find allies accordingly. In practice they did no more than continue to be our no.1 hostile until we finally NAPped them just before we began to fight CT.

A small alliance being ganged up on by other small alliances, surely in part implies a diplomatic failure on the side of the victim. Annoying several others unnecessarily.
It would be fun to see your inc stats.
Who have given you what in amoun of incs
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 15:10   #16
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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It would be fun to see your inc stats.
Who have given you what in amoun of incs
That was one of the things I would have loved to have but is way down the tech priority list. This means the only way of finding out is to go through the ingame intel. And of course I cant do that for back in time to provide exact numbers.

At the time of our war with you p3n was our most hostile having sent twice the number that our second most hostile, bows, had. CT was next with slightly less followed by BF. I would assume that CT has caught up considerably with p3n but have not looked recently to be sure.

What I can say though is that due to our attempts to reduce incoming numbers when we had no defence tools (by this I mean no sms or call option which is a serious hindrance to ally def) meant that we had very few incs for the first half of the round. Hence the situation where you and p3n were our top hostiles. I would not be surprised if we were bows top hostile in return as we seemed to regularly gal raid the forts you have.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 15:38   #17
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Ofc now it is more than a week later and the aforementioned thumping by CT changes things but here goes:

atm
CT 292
p3n 290
bows 165
BF 149
FL 59
ND 32
HR 29
Ult 25

sum total: not very much
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 16:00   #18
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Ofc now it is more than a week later and the aforementioned thumping by CT changes things but here goes:

atm
CT 292
p3n 290
bows 165
BF 149
FL 59
ND 32
HR 29
Ult 25

sum total: not very much
Interesting.
You choose to war BowS even though they havnt realy given you much incs.
Something dosnt add up here.

Another interesting note is that you are looking to average around 30 incs per member, and if you keep this inc dodging up with this little incommings you are maybe looking to be the alliance that has been recieving the least incs ever in a round of PA?
Someone can correct me if im wrong
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 16:47   #19
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Interesting.
You choose to war BowS even though they havnt realy given you much incs.
Something dosnt add up here.

Another interesting note is that you are looking to average around 30 incs per member, and if you keep this inc dodging up with this little incommings you are maybe looking to be the alliance that has been recieving the least incs ever in a round of PA?
Someone can correct me if im wrong
Yet i still prefer them over alliances who claim they have too many naps, and are dropping the naps to allow more galraids, only to go on and ally with another alliance. BTW how is your quest on stopping stagnation going being napped and allied to the top 2 alliances?
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 16:52   #20
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Yet i still prefer them over alliances who claim they have too many naps, and are dropping the naps to allow more galraids, only to go on and ally with another alliance. BTW how is your quest on stopping stagnation going being napped and allied to the top 2 alliances?
We are only NAPed with CT/p3ng/Rogues.
Even though BF threw a fit when i broke the NAP with them, we still went through with it as planned, though now they dont have much roids left so guess its a week to late anyway
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 17:03   #21
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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We are only NAPed with CT/p3ng/Rogues.
Even though BF threw a fit when i broke the NAP with them, we still went through with it as planned, though now they dont have much roids left so guess its a week to late anyway
just to get you up to speed: Relation Change 842 Black Flag and RainbowS have confirmed they are allied.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 17:06   #22
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Interesting.
You choose to war BowS even though they havnt realy given you much incs.
Something dosnt add up here.
Got to remember that Bows and P3n have not increased much since and CT/BF have increased by a lot. At the time you had given us a comparatively large number of incs.

Throughout I have thought that not even p3n have given us enough incs to be worth a war. But you know how it is; when you have so few incs getting ones from the same alliances over and over stands out as there are none from the others. There was therefore considerable internal pressure to fight you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Another interesting note is that you are looking to average around 30 incs per member, and if you keep this inc dodging up with this little incommings you are maybe looking to be the alliance that has been recieving the least incs ever in a round of PA?
This says to me a successful alliance policy! Most small alliances dont get away with it forever; at some point someone thinks they are easy roids and goes for them. Still plenty of time for this to happen.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 17:08   #23
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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just to get you up to speed: Relation Change 842 Black Flag and RainbowS have confirmed they are allied.
Its weekend, im never up to speed during weekends
But yeah, thats pretty wank
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 17:17   #24
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Interesting.
You choose to war BowS even though they havnt realy given you much incs.
Something dosnt add up here.
You choose to read current totals with a situation of over 10 days ago. Bows and rogues have been napped for 190 ticks now, hence Bows wont have been adding to its totals while others have. During which time more than half of that CT total will have been received.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 17:26   #25
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Another interesting note is that you are looking to average around 30 incs per member, and if you keep this inc dodging up with this little incommings you are maybe looking to be the alliance that has been recieving the least incs ever in a round of PA?
Someone can correct me if im wrong
It would have been kinda nice to go down in PA history for something... but unfortunately it looks like it wont be this:
Round 46 xVx 48 members 938 total incs
Round 45 DLR 35 members 855 total incs
Round 41 DLR 31 members 506 total incs
I am sure one of these will be less per member than Rogues this round, but it is not exactly common.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 17:30   #26
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
You choose to read current totals with a situation of over 10 days ago. Bows and rogues have been napped for 190 ticks now, hence Bows wont have been adding to its totals while others have. During which time more than half of that CT total will have been received.
Well looking at it the other direction our total incs from ND/HR/Rogues are almost 800.
Rogues has sent twice the amount of fleets at BowS as theyve been recieving back.
At the time being id assume that around 11% of our total fleets sent out so far in the round was at Rogues. So no, by numbers, we never were that hostile to Rogues.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 17:38   #27
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
It would have been kinda nice to go down in PA history for something... but unfortunately it looks like it wont be this:
Round 46 xVx 48 members 938 total incs
Round 45 DLR 35 members 855 total incs
Round 41 DLR 31 members 506 total incs
I am sure one of these will be less per member than Rogues this round, but it is not exactly common.
Aha, so it actualy is possibole to go that low on incs.
But point being that as you said, not very common, even in rounds where the are actualy warring going on in the top4
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 17:48   #28
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well looking at it the other direction our total incs from ND/HR/Rogues are almost 800.
Rogues has sent twice the amount of fleets at BowS as theyve been recieving back.
At the time being id assume that around 11% of our total fleets sent out so far in the round was at Rogues. So no, by numbers, we never were that hostile to Rogues.
Being started a war on is rarely about how hostile you actually are, but rather at how hostile you are percieved. certain members are more vocal than others about who they have been hit by, and these vocal members often inspire such wars.

And even then, it's not about how much you send out at them percentage wise, but how much they recieve from you percentage wise. That can be a tricky thing, and it can be influenced by a lot of things, like how offensive your alliance is or what strategy you have in a round. I remember one particular round where Vikings(or TGV, can't remember the exact round it was) was the top hostile for 4 seperate top 5 alliances by PT300, despite never specifically targetting any of them. This was purely because we had an incredibly offensive (starting) strategy that round and were almost completely cloaked, which gave us the ability to send about 20% more fleets out than the other allies.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 18:08   #29
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Being started a war on is rarely about how hostile you actually are, but rather at how hostile you are percieved. certain members are more vocal than others about who they have been hit by, and these vocal members often inspire such wars.

And even then, it's not about how much you send out at them percentage wise, but how much they recieve from you percentage wise. That can be a tricky thing, and it can be influenced by a lot of things, like how offensive your alliance is or what strategy you have in a round. I remember one particular round where Vikings(or TGV, can't remember the exact round it was) was the top hostile for 4 seperate top 5 alliances by PT300, despite never specifically targetting any of them. This was purely because we had an incredibly offensive (starting) strategy that round and were almost completely cloaked, which gave us the ability to send about 20% more fleets out than the other allies.
Well my point being that theyve not been targetted much by BowS, and the reason for creating a block to attack us must been pushed by other interest than repaying incs.
Perhaps we were a suitable target for ND(who had recieved 80 incs by that time from bows)/HR/Rogues at the time, and they made up some excuse to hit us.

Very few alliances base their politics on vocal members
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 18:17   #30
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

You dont really need excuses to hit someone in pa; did we give you one?
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 18:28   #31
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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You dont really need excuses to hit someone in pa; did we give you one?
Didnt you just do this? We were hostie to ur something?
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 18:48   #32
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Put simply you were phase 1, phase 2 never happened.
With you and p3n by a long shot the largest number of incs we had there was a view within rogues both among some HC and members that bows alliance with p3n posed a mortal threat to us. P3n in particular was unwilling to make much in the way of a deal with us to reduce the number of incs they gave us. We therefore assumed rogues would at some point have to fight both p3n and bows.

This was the reason for us napping ND, and then making an avoidance agreement with HR. The war with you was because rogues hoped to take you out before p3n supported you and it came as quite a surprise to us that p3n did not really step up their incs on us when we attacked you. Originally as I say taking bows out was to ensure you would not be a threat when we fought p3n. Ultimately however wider universe politics resulted in us patching up our fractured relationship with p3n rather than moving on to fighting them.

So yes there was reasoning behind hitting you that had little to do with raw incoming stats; which if we had gone off we really should have been fighting p3n.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 19:19   #33
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Put simply you were phase 1, phase 2 never happened.
With you and p3n by a long shot the largest number of incs we had there was a view within rogues both among some HC and members that bows alliance with p3n posed a mortal threat to us. P3n in particular was unwilling to make much in the way of a deal with us to reduce the number of incs they gave us. We therefore assumed rogues would at some point have to fight both p3n and bows.

This was the reason for us napping ND, and then making an avoidance agreement with HR. The war with you was because rogues hoped to take you out before p3n supported you and it came as quite a surprise to us that p3n did not really step up their incs on us when we attacked you. Originally as I say taking bows out was to ensure you would not be a threat when we fought p3n. Ultimately however wider universe politics resulted in us patching up our fractured relationship with p3n rather than moving on to fighting them.

So yes there was reasoning behind hitting you that had little to do with raw incoming stats; which if we had gone off we really should have been fighting p3n.
Seems like you put a lot of thought into political and warfare strategy.
If alliance A is hostile to you, attack alliance B instead, and let alliance A further outgrow you.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 19:31   #34
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally as I say taking bows out was to ensure you would not be a threat when we fought p3n. Ultimately however wider universe politics resulted in us patching up our fractured relationship with p3n rather than moving on to fighting them.
p3nguins really haven't been out to hit you this round. I am however told by a few alliances you suffer from paranoia that we "want to hit you". That being said after reading the posts from rogues in this thread it does appear you have had the intention to strike us.

In short, more than happy for us to drop our nap and war the round out if there is something you wish to settle, without bows supporting us of course.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 19:37   #35
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Since round start until recently P3nguins were avoidance leaders . But they are still the champion bottom feeders and #1 PA criminals by their repeated targeting of non top 50 galaxy's. They can be so proud at the end of the round how they may only be a shadow of what they once were but they have kept in the top 10. Avoiding incs from x y and z allys having NAPed their way through since tick one whilst sending 4 waves of 3 fleets a time at the same few gals that dont contain members from any of their NAPs
Please enlighten me as to how p3nguins are "avoidance" leaders in any round. Just because you do not hear of agreements does not mean they do not exist. p3nguins policy has always been to keep our politics as public and as transparent as possible, this has often resulted in our "agreements" being known to all and I am glad of that. In some cases it has even caused friction as those who wish to keep their politics behind closed doors do not like others knowing who they work with.

Regardless to the above comments from myself, there is no medal at the end of the round for those who choose to not play "naptarion", which I assume is the way you are trying to say HR play? In fact the only outcome you probably see is a 300 roid planet which is under the bash limit of most in the t300 once ticks end. Who is to say your way is the right way to play the current game?
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 19:39   #36
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
p3nguins really haven't been out to hit you this round. I am however told by a few alliances you suffer from paranoia that we "want to hit you". That being said after reading the posts from rogues in this thread it does appear you have had the intention to strike us.

In short, more than happy for us to drop our nap and war the round out if there is something you wish to settle, without bows supporting us of course.
And featuring Munkee as the "but if you want to make something out of it, we can step out for a minute" cliche...
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 20:04   #37
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Its so much more fun being able to hit anyone at anytime and teach some of you nubs the importance of good old structure defence... but must be comfy sitting on those fences with points sticking up your arses
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 20:06   #38
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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I am however told by a few alliances you suffer from paranoia that we "want to hit you".
You don't need to be told by others; it is quite true that members of rogues HC have at times been paranoid about p3n. As has been noted before in conversation with you there is or was a belief that you want to get us due to stealing your members. Something which was not helped by the immense difference in number of incs we had from you compared to anyone else (regardless of the fact that it was probably not that far above what should be expected in total its the relative that matters in perception).

That said I have not heard anything belligerent from within Rogues since you we willing to make a NAP so proving such paranoia to be just that, paranoia.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 20:13   #39
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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You don't need to be told by others; it is quite true that members of rogues HC have at times been paranoid about p3n. As has been noted before in conversation with you there is or was a belief that you want to get us due to stealing your members. Something which was not helped by the immense difference in number of incs we had from you compared to anyone else (regardless of the fact that it was probably not that far above what should be expected in total its the relative that matters in perception).

That said I have not heard anything belligerent from within Rogues since you we willing to make a NAP so proving such paranoia to be just that, paranoia.
It would be more dramatic if you took him up on his pledge, and get HR/ND to join u roiding P3ng
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 20:43   #40
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

That would not be up to me. And frankly I have throughout been of the opinion that p3n would wipe the floor with us so I cant say im personally too keen!

As you might have guessed it was me who wanted our limiting incs strategy at the start
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:16   #41
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

I just dont see the point in fighting several more or less cold conflicts at once when you can do one full on, ensure its over and move on.

We did nap HR out of generosity, they have been usually the first stop for bottomfeeders and i dont want to be put in that pile. ND did give us a hand when we took on p3nbows and i dont see a reason to drop the NAP.

Its funny to see people being vocal about grrr naps in here forums, i bet you guys are around by the time the inevitable incs are to be DC'd? Oh youre not?

Its was BB himself causing them to be chosen as the target when we warred your block, doing his 'unofficial' agreements around which in the end of the day are worth shit. Kinda describes the whole person. Never really dawned on me why such person is allowed to be in any position in a "new player ally".

Napping CT was to end the stupid conflict and try to heal our relations as we did enter the round as friendly but had some hiccups, maybe we can restart from clean table r62.

We did FL a favor for couple nights by firewalling most of the CT fleets, they barely landed until the last night when we had one DC emo cuz of our targeting and others slept well.

Never intended on to be anyone's fodder, if they want the #1 they better handle the def on their own until negotiated otherwise, we can help on the roiding part.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:22   #42
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
You don't need to be told by others; it is quite true that members of rogues HC have at times been paranoid about p3n. As has been noted before in conversation with you there is or was a belief that you want to get us due to stealing your members. Something which was not helped by the immense difference in number of incs we had from you compared to anyone else (regardless of the fact that it was probably not that far above what should be expected in total its the relative that matters in perception).

That said I have not heard anything belligerent from within Rogues since you we willing to make a NAP so proving such paranoia to be just that, paranoia.
It's not really a paranoia to consider the p3n/bows block as the biggest threat in the beginning of round, would had been very shortsighted to not consider them as such.

I don't know what incited the p3n incs but the coverage we had on those didnt support the fact that they would had done it for the roids, i probably never will know what was the true cause if it wasnt our p3n-affiliated members.

Now we are all commited on the topfight somehow and i do think its better for everyone if we keep on hitting up instead of each other. Except the guys getting hit & BB warmongering.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:34   #43
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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I just dont see the point in fighting several more or less cold conflicts at once when you can do one full on, ensure its over and move on.

We did nap HR out of generosity, they have been usually the first stop for bottomfeeders and i dont want to be put in that pile. ND did give us a hand when we took on p3nbows and i dont see a reason to drop the NAP.

Its funny to see people being vocal about grrr naps in here forums, i bet you guys are around by the time the inevitable incs are to be DC'd? Oh youre not?

Its was BB himself causing them to be chosen as the target when we warred your block, doing his 'unofficial' agreements around which in the end of the day are worth shit. Kinda describes the whole person. Never really dawned on me why such person is allowed to be in any position in a "new player ally".

Napping CT was to end the stupid conflict and try to heal our relations as we did enter the round as friendly but had some hiccups, maybe we can restart from clean table r62.

We did FL a favor for couple nights by firewalling most of the CT fleets, they barely landed until the last night when we had one DC emo cuz of our targeting and others slept well.

Never intended on to be anyone's fodder, if they want the #1 they better handle the def on their own until negotiated otherwise, we can help on the roiding part.
Lol, we have one person doing politics, and unless he has decided to go for something it wont happend.
Put if our HC who puts up attacks tells one of your guys we aint putting up Rogues planets tonight, that means we are not putting up Rogues planet that night.
The only reason why we attacked Rogues the times we did was because your members kept FCing ours, except from that we tried to stay away from focusing on one of the smaller alliances.

and p3ngbows aint a block, booji said it himself, when you declared war with HR/ND/Rogues vs BowS, they did not help us out much.
We have at times actualy managed to piggy each other on attacks iirc
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:40   #44
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
p3nguins really haven't been out to hit you this round. I am however told by a few alliances you suffer from paranoia that we "want to hit you". That being said after reading the posts from rogues in this thread it does appear you have had the intention to strike us.

In short, more than happy for us to drop our nap and war the round out if there is something you wish to settle, without bows supporting us of course.
From those figures i gave earlier you are our 2nd most hostile, despite having had a nap for 160 ticks. Before that NAP you were top hostile by quite some margin, so yes paranoia, but backed up by a considerable body of evidence.
Of course what incoming figures miss is what proportion of your total outgoing this is. I am quite prepared to believe that this was a relatively small proportion of p3n's outgoing because historically p3n has been very good at attacking, and I doubt you have been particularly hard hit so have been probably able to consistently two or three fleet attack.
The flipside is that rogues is poor at attacking and it would be easy to look at rogues' small number of outgoing and compare it to the p3n incomings and put two and two together and make five and say how on earth can p3n send us that many incs without targeting.
As Influence mentioned earlier politics is at least as much about perception as empirical reality, HCs don't have a full picture.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:40   #45
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Someone can correct me if im wrong
You're wrong. xVx r40, easily balanced out by xVx r41, but still.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:42   #46
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
and p3ngbows aint a block, booji said it himself, when you declared war with HR/ND/Rogues vs BowS, they did not help us out much.
One of our HCs asked (cant remember who it was he talked to) and was told that in the event of a conflict the other party in the agreement would support them. We therefore felt we had good reason to assume we would be fighting both of you and prepare accordingly.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:48   #47
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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One of our HCs asked (cant remember who it was he talked to) and was told that in the event of a conflict the other party in the agreement would support them. We therefore felt we had good reason to assume we would be fighting both of you and prepare accordingly.
Then our agreement is apparently not worth much
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:51   #48
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Lol, we have one person doing politics, and unless he has decided to go for something it wont happend.
Put if our HC who puts up attacks tells one of your guys we aint putting up Rogues planets tonight, that means we are not putting up Rogues planet that night.
The only reason why we attacked Rogues the times we did was because your members kept FCing ours, except from that we tried to stay away from focusing on one of the smaller alliances.

and p3ngbows aint a block, booji said it himself, when you declared war with HR/ND/Rogues vs BowS, they did not help us out much.
We have at times actualy managed to piggy each other on attacks iirc

We did get pretty lulworthy waves from p3n, yes they had to follow the avoidance rules we had but were very creative in the limits of it. :P I wouldnt blame em for not helping for a second.

HR never really joined us much on anything aside from accidentally hitting a bow or 2 per night and i fully understand it since theyre not in position to seek conflicts.

I see you are trying to damage control but it really did go down like you going around doing agreements and not telling about it to anyone in Bows. Then trusting on the fact that you can keep others oblivious and rig the TP's.

Thankfully i know your PR HC now and hes qualified at his work.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:54   #49
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

About a month ago in another thread on the p3n/bows nap, I pointed out (inevitably in response to BButcher) that this sort of agreement would have consequences:

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I do think you ignore a potential to a chain reaction. If two allies ally, and hit another you are encouraging blocking further as a counter (which in general you seem to think a bad thing).
lo and behold:

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
... there was a view within rogues both among some HC and members that bows alliance with p3n posed a mortal threat to us. ... assumed rogues would at some point have to fight both p3n and bows.
This was the reason for us napping ND, and then making an avoidance agreement with HR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larppa View Post
It's not really a paranoia to consider the p3n/bows block as the biggest threat in the beginning of round, would had been very shortsighted to not consider them as such.
NAPs beget NAPs alliances beget alliances, it does not matter where in the pa food chain you are, any political maneuver is a potential threat to someone and invites a counter.
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Unread 25 Apr 2015, 21:57   #50
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Then our agreement is apparently not worth much
No saying that the HC I am referring to was told the truth surely it would have been in the interest of the person he was talking to to say the agreement would do more! Also no saying that the HC in question interpreted the response correctly.
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