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Unread 27 Aug 2008, 22:30   #1
HaNzI
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Scannerschan

A new scannerschan for those in desperate need of scans is now available in #scans (without OP-abuse and lame channel OPs!) You can actually ask for a scan without getting kickbanned

anyone with amps who wishes to share some scans, and ofcourse those who enjoys getting scans can drop by! P will join us shortly!

im not that much around really but im around mornings, nights and weekends, so if anyone wishes to help out with scanning, pm me on irc and ill add you.

personally i got enough amps to scan anything so thats a pretty good reason to stick around

BTW: spread the words on irc. not many people read forums anymore as they are scared of the forumtrolls!

If you sign up to scan for us i got free credits!

Last edited by HaNzI; 27 Aug 2008 at 22:48.
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Unread 28 Aug 2008, 00:27   #2
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Scannerschan

Fragmentation! I like it.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 28 Aug 2008, 09:35   #3
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Re: Scannerschan

Awesome!
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Unread 31 Aug 2008, 16:00   #4
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Re: Scannerschan

This is now a project also for the feature. the chan is regged with P and so far it looks like i will be high-amping for atleast 3 more rounds, and some people have already "signed" up to scan for the next round.

Tools have also been discussed and will most likely be implemented from next round! Reason for this is that i see no point to help large alliances map the universe by demanding public scans, so from next round there is a bot and an additional chan for the scanners
(this round ask in public)
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Unread 5 Sep 2008, 16:39   #5
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Re: Scannerschan

And if anyone has any suggestions on how they want to request scans etc then please stick somethin on here! We'll be sticking a bot in and it will let you !search scantype x:y:z or !req scantype x:y:z etc.
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Unread 5 Sep 2008, 19:52   #6
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Re: Scannerschan

I'd be willing to help out making a bot that remembers scans or something. Or you could have Munin come to the channel, he already does that.
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Unread 5 Sep 2008, 21:31   #7
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Re: Scannerschan

lol
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Unread 5 Sep 2008, 23:57   #8
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Re: Scannerschan

What? This is a good initiative, though I'd personally rather see that they tried improving the already existing channel, I can understand why they don't, and I wish them luck.
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Unread 6 Sep 2008, 04:15   #9
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Re: Scannerschan

good to see this come around again, I might just be bugging you guys soon.
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Unread 6 Sep 2008, 08:02   #10
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Re: Scannerschan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubert Samson View Post
good to see this come around again, I might just be bugging you guys soon.
This is not #transcendancy, this is a new endeavour.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 6 Sep 2008, 10:03   #11
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Re: Scannerschan

Very good initiative!
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 01:35   #12
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Re: Scannerschan

it can't be much if it isn't asc.
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 06:48   #13
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Re: Scannerschan

(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

Now please update me on how this channel is breaking th eula, as we are not giving anyone a benefit, or scanning particularely for an organisation.

Fiery wants to close us by the looks of it!
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 06:57   #14
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Re: Scannerschan

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI
Fiery wants to close us by the looks of it!
How do you figure that?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 07:11   #15
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Re: Scannerschan

[03:54:27] <Fiery2> mPulse, poke Hanzi to contact me later on

[03:54:52] <Fiery2> Because he did not bother to speak with me before he started this little scan channel

[03:56:07] <Fiery2> and transcendancy came and asked for what was allowable and for permission to have the channel so they wouldn't be closed for being support planets.
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 07:13   #16
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Re: Scannerschan

i know the eula, and i dont need to speak to anyone as long as im not breaking any rules.
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 08:11   #17
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Re: Scannerschan

By tolerating #transcendancy for almost 10 rounds the admins have implicitly confirmed that public scan channels are allowed. Closing #scans while allowing #transcendancy to stay open would be laughable.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 08:33   #18
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Re: Scannerschan

The only possible difference I could see them being pissy about is that it is not a "public" chan. It is for the public, but it is done where noone sees, so plenty of opportunity for not helping X,Y and X while helping A,B and C.. I doubt that would reallly be a problem but it is definitly possible.
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 10:38   #19
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Re: Scannerschan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
This is not #transcendancy, this is a new endeavour.
I realize that, but it is along the same lines so I felt it was necessary to put the "again" in there
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Unread 8 Sep 2008, 14:13   #20
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Re: Scannerschan

pro
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 18:06   #21
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Re: Scannerschan

We have now implemented a scanbot that hides the nick of the person who request it. By requesting a scan it will be sent to our private scanner channel like this example.

[19:04:02] <@Scans> [34] Jumpgate Scan on 6:5:9 [u] => http://game.planetarion.com/waves.pl?id=7&x=6&y=5&z=9

No nicks= no intel. just how we like it. Noone who volunteers to scan will have any advantages on your expense.

To request a scan simply:

/msg scans !request x:x:x "type"
/msg scans !request 1:1:1 p/s/t/u/n/j/a


Thanks to Hiall for being our scanb0tpr0vider!
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 18:11   #22
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Re: Scannerschan

Also. dont request PSTA galscans on this bot. we will delete them for obvious reasons
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 22:19   #23
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Re: Scannerschan

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Noone who volunteers to scan will have any advantages on your expense.
Except you. Isn't that interesting.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 23:37   #24
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Re: Scannerschan

currently the scans are just dumped though. might use the JGPs for something usefull later but its all gonna be public. i dont really have any purpose to gain from this information i just scan.
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Unread 26 Oct 2008, 16:57   #25
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Re: Scannerschan

A new round is approaching and we hope to see some new scanners helping us out, aswell as some old ones returning. find us on #scans and contact an OP to get added as scanner in this sexy community
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Unread 27 Oct 2008, 20:15   #26
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Re: Scannerschan

who needs scanners when we've got the new landing scan !

Just kidding HaNzl, your doing the community a big favor
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Unread 27 Oct 2008, 20:34   #27
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Re: Scannerschan

Scans are for wimps, real men land blind and defend with pods.
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Unread 28 Oct 2008, 00:40   #28
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Re: Scannerschan

Thanks HaNzI nice to see somebody willing to help others in this s**t game.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 13:29   #29
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Re: Scannerschan

Small update. only counting the scans our bot picked up, we did 300 scans the last 48 hours, where over 90% was AU/JGP

popularity grows with expenses so
if you got AU-scans it would be kind to think of us and help out with scanning

just contact an OP in #scans
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 14:02   #30
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Re: Scannerschan

great service but why use a bot to request the scans why not just ask for and recieve scans in the channel
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 14:18   #31
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Re: Scannerschan

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Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
great service but why use a bot to request the scans why not just ask for and recieve scans in the channel
Thats the users choice. if someone asks in channel i give it in channel.
What the bot does is to assure the users stay anonymous if they want to + it has a que-function so the scanrequests doesnt get "lost"
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 14:24   #32
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Re: Scannerschan

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Small update. only counting the scans our bot picked up, we did 300 scans the last 48 hours, where over 90% was AU/JGP

popularity grows with expenses so
if you got AU-scans it would be kind to think of us and help out with scanning

just contact an OP in #scans
I would, but I don't like the bot idea.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 15:22   #33
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Re: Scannerschan

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
By tolerating #transcendancy for almost 10 rounds the admins have implicitly confirmed that public scan channels are allowed. Closing #scans while allowing #transcendancy to stay open would be laughable.
Apparently according to Fiery there's a thread about why #transcendancy is allowed and what the conditions of Public Scan groups being allowed to operate under. I don't want to call her a liar but I cant find it myself and despite asking all I get is a "its there" response.

I personally think its good that public scan groups have rules and conditions they have to abide by to be allowed to operate and #scans should have to abide by them OR see all their scanners closed. However these rules can not and should not be something hidden away or only knowing to the MH's and the leaders of the scan group. They should be known to anyone who may use or may want to create a public scan group.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 15:39   #34
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Re: Scannerschan

TBH from what has been said in this thread #trans asked if they could do it whereas #scans just did it.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 16:18   #35
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Re: Scannerschan

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Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
TBH from what has been said in this thread #trans asked if they could do it whereas #scans just did it.
Based on the available information there is no reason why they would have to ask though. While the EULA does in theory disallow it, the only thread relating to OOT scanning is the sticky that says OOT scanning won't get you closed.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 16:32   #36
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Re: Scannerschan

as far as I know, the only rule is that scans cannot refused to people.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 17:52   #37
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Re: Scannerschan

when the channel started fiery came and had a chat to us. apparently we should have informed the MH about it but.....it wasn't document anywhere! as for the bot, it keeps the channel anonymous and makes sure everyone get's their scans as quickly as possible. when a request comes thru noone see's the nick of the person who requests it, etc.
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Unread 9 Nov 2008, 18:00   #38
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Re: Scannerschan

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Originally Posted by Kal View Post
as far as I know, the only rule is that scans cannot refused to people.
Exactly, as far as you know. The simple fact is you don't know, I don't know, everyone else doesn't know. In conjunction with the only MH announcement relating to scans its farcical as theres contraindication and uncertainty
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Unread 10 Nov 2008, 01:05   #39
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Re: Scannerschan

wow its like a little pa side business, whats the point!
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 17:04   #40
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Re: Scannerschan

I did not ask for a permission to start #Scans because there is NOTHING in the rules that forbid us to scan for everyone

The rules clearly states that we are not allowed to give any players or alliances any unfair advantages. Since we scan anything requested through the bot, we follow this rule.
Pretty soon we will have a site to put up the database of requested scans so everyone who wishes can search the database. then its impossible for anyone to benefit from #scans

I hope this clearifies a few things.

PS: for those who wants to scan for us its a lot easier to scan with a bot, because you just paste the link for the requested scan and the bot delievers for you. So i dont see why someone would say they dont wanna scan for us because its more effort
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 17:48   #41
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Re: Scannerschan

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey View Post
I personally think its good that public scan groups have rules and conditions they have to abide by to be allowed to operate
Such as?
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Unread 11 Nov 2008, 23:32   #42
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Re: Scannerschan

"do not refuse scans to anyone" is the only reasonable one I can think of.
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Unread 12 Nov 2008, 03:03   #43
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Re: Scannerschan

Not to sound especially bitter (I am definitely somewhat so) but I don't believe that explanation suits at all. The only time I was ever closed in Planetarion was when I offered this exact service to people. I was hunted to the point that a certain PATeam member felt the need to falsify evidence against me and your quotee, Fiery, in her role as Senior Multihunter told me that exactly what you described here was cheating worthy of closure and subsequently took away my planet.

There has been absolutely no change in the rules (as noted in the EULA) since that time and yet the interpretation of said rules has changed dramatically. In what world is this fair to anyone? There is no reason whatsoever why these issues can't be explained unambiguously somewhere and the fact that they aren't renders channels like #scans 1 judgement call away from being actively shut down.

We need a clear and written direction on this issue, as we have for many rounds now. It's retarded that something so fundamental to the game is left completely in the air and at the discretion of people who have no true appreciation of what is an extremely complex metagame. That needs to change.

It needs to be publicly recognised that scanning simply isn't cheating.
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Unread 14 Nov 2008, 20:12   #44
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Re: Scannerschan

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Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Not to sound especially bitter (I am definitely somewhat so) but I don't believe that explanation suits at all. The only time I was ever closed in Planetarion was when I offered this exact service to people. I was hunted to the point that a certain PATeam member felt the need to falsify evidence against me and your quotee, Fiery, in her role as Senior Multihunter told me that exactly what you described here was cheating worthy of closure and subsequently took away my planet.

There has been absolutely no change in the rules (as noted in the EULA) since that time and yet the interpretation of said rules has changed dramatically. In what world is this fair to anyone? There is no reason whatsoever why these issues can't be explained unambiguously somewhere and the fact that they aren't renders channels like #scans 1 judgement call away from being actively shut down.

We need a clear and written direction on this issue, as we have for many rounds now. It's retarded that something so fundamental to the game is left completely in the air and at the discretion of people who have no true appreciation of what is an extremely complex metagame. That needs to change.

It needs to be publicly recognised that scanning simply isn't cheating.
I know there has been similar issues in the past. People being closed under the support planet rule for scanning more for one particular alliance, and giving them unfair benefits. This is exactly why we are a channel, open to anyone who wants a scan. The bot protects the users, and the scanners does not see the nick of who requested it, which means everyone is treated equally. According to the rules, this system is bulletproof, and closing #scans would simply be both hilarious and a huge mistake by the PA-team. Simply because everyone knows we are doing it by the rules.
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Unread 15 Nov 2008, 02:08   #45
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Re: Scannerschan

My point was more that the rules are (a) stupid (b) arbitrary and (c) undefined. But it is comforting to know that the integrity of scanning is being so zealously protected.

(sometimes the internet makes me very sad)
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Unread 15 Nov 2008, 19:17   #46
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Re: Scannerschan

In order to confirm your claims that your bot provides anonymity and equality, please open source the bot's code.
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Unread 16 Nov 2008, 01:15   #47
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Re: Scannerschan

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In order to confirm your claims that your bot provides anonymity and equality, please open source the bot's code.
No.

But there is a lot of scanners in there who can verify it
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Unread 16 Nov 2008, 01:31   #48
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Re: Scannerschan

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No.
Why not?
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Unread 16 Nov 2008, 01:38   #49
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Re: Scannerschan

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Why not?
1) The bot shows no nick in the scan requests.

2) An arbiter will be made public soon where you can track down every single scan picked up by the bot.

So i dont see why the person who worked on this and made it possible should hand out the sourcecode of his work. Its not my decission
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Unread 16 Nov 2008, 03:35   #50
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Re: Scannerschan

Tons of programmers put time and effort into many other projects that they are happy to release into the open. Looking at PA, Munin is a good example of this.

How can we, or for that matter the multihunters, take your word on this, when clearly they were not willing to take Achi's word?

Furthermore, the argument that the person worked on this would lose out by releasing their code is silly. The code to do this kind of job is nothing particularly complicated, in fact it is rather rudimentary and common.

If you want #scans to become a community service, it is important that it's services are entirely out in the open for the community to inspect and approve, and maybe also help improve.
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