Alcohol culture...

[Knight Theamion]

Reading these forums, I get the idea that most of you consider it somehow a positive thing to 'drink loads'. Some even consider getting hammered a good and proper evening, or even, if you weren't hammered, it a bad one. (Grammar fails there at one point)

This I do not understand, I mean alcohol, I drink it because I like it, I mean, I like a beer, a good glass of wine, a gin tonic, a gin fizz or whatever, but once I notice that my judgement is getting off, or worse, if I've been drinking while seated, that my movement is off, I quit drinking for that night. I hate losing control or worse, missing pieces of the film. And I cannot understand that getting drunk is 'nice'. I just can't.

Can someone explain this to me?

[pablissimo]

I'm mashed, you ****, and i'll ****ing 'ave you so **** off to Hockeyville, USA

[MrL_JaKiri]

Oh this again.

Many activities are fun when hammered, and utterly shit when not. Dante's comments about clubbing spring to mind.

[Proxi]

I find it easier to talk to people when drunk. Maybe this is because when pissed they're (normally) innane conversation suddenly becomes funny and interesting.
Some shit just seems hilarious when you get wankered, and funnier things seem to happen.

[Blastoderm]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Theam and his hockey stick + girl (get the pun?).

This thread fails to deliver.




































































On a serious note, I had this discussion with a cabbie last night. We couldn't figure it out why.

[MrPeach]

I don't understand people who play hockey.

Others don't understand people who post on internet forums.

Personally I like drinking for a variety of reasons:

- Often conversation will be more open.
- I am more relaxed and less self concious.
- More stories tend to come of a drunken night.

Being some of them.

[Dante Hicks]

What Mark said.

Undoubtedly someone will respond with "Well I have amazingly fun times while clubbing even when I'm sober" - well, good for you. This is not the case with most people I know, especially if you change 'Alcohol culture' to 'Intoxication culture'. I could have easily had my NYE festivities without any alcohol if you swap to another intoxicant, but I presume that's not what you mean.

Speaking personally, due to social norms and other issues, I find it quite difficult to talk to 'strangers' if I'm not mashed on some level or another - at least, not unless there is some sort of structure in place (e.g. I'd be fine to deliver a presentation to people I've never met and indeed I do this semi-regularly as part of my work). I think like many people I tend to "overthink" things, so if I was speaking to someone and there was a lull in conversation I would normally tend to dwell on this silence which would cause a strange feedback loop where I would be increasingly unable to think of anything to say. Intoxicants tend to obliterate this process which leads to an increase in social interaction.

You mention the issue of "judgement". A lot of people don't necessarily adore their own sense of judgement. They may find themselves too risk averse in day-to-day life and this may not be appropriate in certain circumstances (again, clubbing springs to mind). I would never while sober, after perhaps 30 seconds of conversation with a pretty girl, say "Can I kiss you?" but I have done on alcohol on various occassions, and it's always reaped positive results.

Also, there is the issue of pain. Most people's drunken escapades seem to involve doing things which would be fairly tiring/painful or boring if you weren't drunk (e.g. walking around in the cold, dancing around for 9 hours, etc). Alcohol (and other intoxicants) tend to act as a mild pain killer in this regard.

Oh yes, and for most people simply being drunk is (at first at least) is actually quite fun. Obviously if you're in a bad mood then alcohol can not necessarily rescue you, but I tend to find (as I've said elsewhere) the first two hours (at the very least) of drinking to be pretty euphoric.

[Boogster]

Drinking is essentially escapism, for a lot of people. I can understand it. I don't imagine it helps much though, really.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Boogster

Drinking is essentially escapism, for a lot of people.

Well yeah, obviously. If I was homeless for example, I'd be looking to be smashed pretty much all the time as a method of dealing with the cold or just general horror of my existence.

But I think that it's pretty misleading to presume that a group of friends who are going out together on a Friday night to get mashed are somehow "escpaing" anything. Unless you wish to, as others have on this forum have done in the past, define "escapism" in such a ridiculously broad manner as to render pretty much every human action ever as a form of escapism (and thus the term meaningless).

[Boogster]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Well yeah, obviously. If I was homeless for example, I'd be looking to be smashed pretty much all the time as a method of dealing with the cold or just general horror of my existence.

But I think that's it's pretty misleading to presume that a group of friends who are going out together on a Friday night to get mashed are somehow "escpaing" anything. Unless you wish to, as others have on this forum have done in the past, define "escapism" in such a ridiculously broad manner as to render pretty much every human action ever as a form of escapism (and thus the term meaningless).

You're right.

There are probably two reasons people drink to excess:

- purely in the pursuit of fun

- as a form of escapism

However, 'escapism' includes getting drunk to hide one's percieved social defects, whether it be in speaking to strangers, or in judgement.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Boogster

However, 'escapism' includes getting drunk to hide one's percieved social defects, whether it be in speaking to strangers, or in judgement.

Perhaps, but as I implied, I am unhappy with such a definition. Let's say person X can do (or enjoys doing more) something when they are drunk. Does this mean that they are getting drunk to "escape" their inability? Again, perhaps - but that seems like a mangling of English grammar. It'd be pretty strange to say that Popeye eats spinach as a form of "escapism" from being weak for instance.

[Boogster]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Perhaps, but as I implied, I am unhappy with such a definition. Let's say person X can do (or enjoys doing more) something when they are drunk. Does this mean that they are getting drunk to "escape" their inability? Again; perhaps - but that seems like a mangling of English grammar. It'd be pretty strange to say that Popeye eats spinach as a form of "escapism" from being weak for instance.

We're getting into semantics.

An athlete takes steroids to enhance his performance; a shy person drinks to hide his inadequacy. It might not be 'escapism', but it's the same thing.

[Nodrog]

Drinking can be fun, but then so can lots of other things. Theres probably too much emphasis attached to alcohol in modern culture, but who cares really?

Also, I dont 'lose control' after drinking, even when I've drunk a lot. If I did, I would almost certainly never do it again.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

Reading these forums, I get the idea that most of you consider it somehow a positive thing to 'drink loads'. Some even consider getting hammered a good and proper evening, or even, if you weren't hammered, it a bad one. (Grammar fails there at one point)

This I do not understand, I mean alcohol, I drink it because I like it, I mean, I like a beer, a good glass of wine, a gin tonic, a gin fizz or whatever, but once I notice that my judgement is getting off, or worse, if I've been drinking while seated, that my movement is off, I quit drinking for that night. I hate losing control or worse, missing pieces of the film. And I cannot understand that getting drunk is 'nice'. I just can't.

Can someone explain this to me?

I think alot is down to cultural associations and what people think they are going to get out of it, as much as it is the actual chemical effects of drinking on the body.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

drink improves my dancing.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua

drink improves my dancing.

I thought you said driving there

[Charjerk]

I find it tragic that somebody should need alcohol to be not shy or be able to do other things. How can an individual. thorugh alcohol or drugs, put himself in an illusionary situation, complete the task and be happy with the consequences. It sounds like a temporary short cut. Are you not back to your real self afterwards, the self that does not satisfy you and compels you to drink and take drugs and be not you. Sounds like a blind circle. If you keep doing that is it you determining the details of your characteristics or drink and drugs. I feel that you they only help you to wear a mask that becomes temprarily you even for you. I guess these do not matter for people whose only aim is to behae in a certain way for some time and not worry about self development. At the end of the day the person you get back to is always you. It is strange to need artificial things to prove yourself to yourself and to your environment. The greatest fight in the world is against the self.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Charjerk

I find it tragic

That assumes that "enjoyment" isn't an end to itself, and that different situations don't lend themselves better to different reactions.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Charjerk

How can an individual. thorugh alcohol or drugs, put himself in an illusionary situation, complete the task and be happy with the consequences.

You are misusing the term "illusion". If you drank 8 cups of coffee in a night to stay awake (in order to write your great manuscript or an essay or whatever) then it is not "an illusion" that you are awake longer. Psychoactives of various descriptions (as horn goes onto mention) can be used in all manner of contexts in a helpful manner.

The rest of your post reads like some pseudo-evangelical Christian tale of salvation. You are saying it is always better to be "sober" (i.e. presumably never taking any psychoactive substance including cigarettes, coffee, etc) than non-sober. But why? You can say this is somehow self-evident, but it isn't to everyone.

You mention challenging things, and I agree. And one of the particularly mindless conventions we should struggle against is the notion we are somehow perfect and that we could not benefit (in certain scenarios or situations) from external help. This will range from drinking an energy drink before having a run to perhaps self-medicating with valium to get through a stressful experience (e.g. flying). There are always dangers, but that is life and we should be courageous enough to confront them in co-operation with like minded members of our community.

[KoeN]

i can't remember the last time i was really drunk tbh. somehow i lost fun (challenge?) in binge-drinking; nowadays i spend nights out much differently (and with different people). i think i should consider it all in all as a big improvement, but somehow i'm not too sure about it. i don't know.

[Charjerk]

Life is hard, nobody can deny that. Running away from yourself with drink and drugs is to romanticise life and things incolved in it, not trying to belive in yourself and reveal your own potential without resorting to those things. Real life does not take romanticising. Live it in a non-sober way as long as you want. But in the end it will always be youhaving to pay a rent, buy food, watch and experience disasters, feel that you could be beter in some ways, endure a shit job, etc etc. Real life hits you like a rock in the end does not matter how long you run away, There is no reincarnation or karma, this life is your only chance. You think you are always changing for the better, thats good. The formation of individuality is a process. But not everybody gets into this process in the first place. Things has to happen to force them and think that something is wrong before starting to look at themselves objectively. Not everyone is like that. I was not talking about people with deep-seated mental problems that require medication. I am talking about the average person who tries to live soberly only through drink and drug. I am talking about an internalised social habit that needs to be questioned by every individual. Every individual is worthy and valuable, but it take time for them to find themselves and there are only two ways you either shape up gradually or ship out gradually. You are what you make of yourself. May be a truism, but it also means that the most difficult thing in this world is to realise and fight against a world that is trying to make you a carbon copy. Be realistic, do, think and ask for the impossible. There is nothing romantic about these things. If one is courageous enough to force his body's level of alcohol/ drug intake, he should be courageous enough to ask these questions.

Realists do not fear the results of their study - Dostoyevsky

[Deepflow]

where do i sign up to your program?

do you have any leaflets?

etc etc etc

[Charjerk]

I am sorry, I do not have a programme or leaflets. Just a man sharing his ideas with people who are willing to share. Thank you.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

Reading these forums, I get the idea that most of you consider it somehow a positive thing to 'drink loads'.

Not necessarily. For example I'd only really drink loads when I'm out with some friends and we're celebrating something, new years, end of college exams, start of the college year, big poker win, it being a Tuesday. That sort of thing.

Some even consider getting hammered a good and proper evening, or even, if you weren't hammered, it a bad one. (Grammar fails there at one point)

Not in isolation. Quite right on the second one though, I found clubs terrible places if you're not drunk. Music too loud, place too dark, drinks too overpriced, other people shit, dancing not enjoyable and so on and so forth. All in all going to a club and not being drunk is not fun, going to a club while being drunk is fun!

This I do not understand, I mean alcohol, I drink it because I like it, I mean, I like a beer, a good glass of wine, a gin tonic, a gin fizz or whatever, but once I notice that my judgement is getting off, or worse, if I've been drinking while seated, that my movement is off, I quit drinking for that night.

What, worried about having an accident cycling home?

I hate losing control or worse, missing pieces of the film. And I cannot understand that getting drunk is 'nice'. I just can't.

You seem to consider being drunk the same as being absolutely completely and utterly ****ing plastered. This is a mistake.

Can someone explain this to me?

Alcoholics Anonymous probably can.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

You seem to consider being drunk the same as being absolutely completely and utterly ****ing plastered. This is a mistake.

For myself, I am bad with sliding scales, once I notice my judgement is going off with how much I can still take, I stop drinking. I always find it an alarming event when I laugh at myself in the mirror when taking a piss.

But indeed, there are various degrees of drunk, I was more talking 'bout the 'I did things that I normally have inhibitions for' ... kinda stuff

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

For myself, I am bad with sliding scales, once I notice my judgement is going off with how much I can still take, I stop drinking. I always find it an alarming event when I laugh at myself in the mirror when taking a piss.

But indeed, there are various degrees of drunk, I was more talking 'bout the 'I did things that I normally have inhibitions for' ... kinda stuff

Like being more out going? I don't really do many things while drunk that I wouldn't do while sober bar silly little things like that and dancing in a night club. It's just I spend a lot of my time drunk so I do a lot of things while drunk

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

For myself, I am bad with sliding scales, once I notice my judgement is going off with how much I can still take, I stop drinking. I always find it an alarming event when I laugh at myself in the mirror when taking a piss.

Presumably when you're washing your hands, not pissing in the sink?

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Presumably when you're washing your hands, not pissing in the sink?

you presumed correct, although, some clubs have mirrors on the urinoir side.

[All Systems Go]

Personally, I like drinking until I black out.

I don't do it very often though and never on purpose as I ALWAYS make a fool of myself in the most bizarre way and can never remember exactly what happened.

However, I do enjoy the sensation the next day when I wake up and notice little things that I've done since I've been back home. It's kind of like a small-scale version of Fear and Loathing where he wakes up wearing fishing boots, a crocidile tail and the room is trashed.

It may just be the novelty experience as I'm not a big drinker and if it happened every day it would lose it's appeal but I suppose that's why I don't do it.


It is very much a form of escapism, like going on a holiday. Although I think it can be compared to religion to a certain extent. Sometimes, when people are in desperate situations they turn to God and pray for strength which they then find and can use to help themselves. But because God doesn't exist all they have done is channelled their own strength with a placebo (I think this has something to do with Marxism but I'm not 100% sure). I'm not saying this is always the case but alcohol can be used (like God) as a short-cut to "self-improvement". Likewise, too much dependence on either of these things can be very bad for you. In theory, as we grow as people our dependence on these should decrease and we can achieve the desired state of mind independently.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

It is very much a form of escapism, like going on a holiday. Although I think it can be compared to religion to a certain extent. Sometimes, when people are in desperate situations they turn to God and pray for strength which they then find and can use to help themselves. But because God doesn't exist all they have done is channelled their own strength with a placebo (I think this has something to do with Marxism but I'm not 100% sure). I'm not saying this is always the case but alcohol can be used (like God) as a short-cut to "self-improvement". Likewise, too much dependence on either of these things can be very bad for you. In theory, as we grow as people our dependence on these should decrease and we can achieve the desired state of mind independently.

Marx called religion the opiate of the masses. Personally I prefer going straight to the source and taking the opium but whatever.

[Blastoderm]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Personally, I like drinking until I black out.

I know someone who did this and vowed never to drink as much again.

[dda]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Not in isolation. Quite right on the second one though, I found clubs terrible places if you're not drunk. Music too loud, place too dark, drinks too overpriced, other people shit, dancing not enjoyable and so on and so forth. All in all going to a club and not being drunk is not fun, going to a club while being drunk is fun!

I think this is the thing that truly puzzles the sober.

1. You want to have fun.

2. Clubs are terrible places if you are not drunk.

3. The music is too loud if you are not drunk.

4. The place is too dark if you are not drunk.

5. The drinks are too expensive if you are not drunk.

6. The people there are shit if you are not drunk.

7. Dancing is not enjoyable if you are not drunk.

So, you go to someplace that you don't like to spend money that you can't afford to hang out with people that you find shit to engage in an activity that you don't find enjoyable so you must drink in order to endure it.

I have found, during my life, both personally and by observation, that for the most part people seem to get intoxicated in order to do the things they would not otherwise do but with a built in excuse if they make asses of themselves.

"I'm sorry, I didn't mean to piss on you couch but I was so blitzed that I thought it was a flower bed."

"Oh, dear. Did I grab your tits? Well you see, I really can't be held to blame for I was ripped, don't you know."

As people mature, the "fun" part of having your conscience altered seems to fade. The older you get, the less funny and more pathetic you appear to others.

Being sober in a group of drunks is an extremely boring experience. You are not more fun when you are drunk. You just don't realize how shit you really are. However, if you are surrounded by an equally shit-faced group, you will all find yourselves hilarious.

Being drunk in a group of sober people just makes you look like a bigger ass than you are.

I personally don't care if people want to get drunk or stoned and stay that way for the rest of their lives. It is not my problem.

I don't condemn people who like to get drunk. However, I agree with the author of the thread that I don't really understand the thought process very well.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by dda

So, you go to someplace that you don't like to spend money that you can't afford to hang out with people that you find shit to engage in an activity that you don't find enjoyable so you must drink in order to endure it.

I don't drink in order to endure it. When I'm drinking it's ****ing brilliant. Plus I can afford the money, it's just that the drinks are overpriced regardless.

I have found, during my life, both personally and by observation, that for the most part people seem to get intoxicated in order to do the things they would not otherwise do but with a built in excuse if they make asses of themselves.

I get drunk because otherwise I'd have far too much money and up wasting it on something entirely worthless.

As people mature, the "fun" part of having your conscience altered seems to fade. The older you get, the less funny and more pathetic you appear to others.

Man getting old's a drag

Being sober in a group of drunks is an extremely boring experience.

Disagree

You are not more fun when you are drunk.

Disagree

You just don't realize how shit you really are.

True, but irrelevant.

However, if you are surrounded by an equally shit-faced group, you will all find yourselves hilarious.

True, but besides the point.

Being drunk in a group of sober people just makes you look like a bigger ass than you are.

Disagree.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by dda

As people mature, the "fun" part of having your conscience altered seems to fade. The older you get, the less funny and more pathetic you appear to others.

This could possibly be true, but that's why people go to a club rather than just dancing around in the street (well, generally). In any club I go to the proportion of people who are drinking and/or taking drugs might be anything from 70-90%. Sure, there might be some people who are sober for various reasons, but they are in a tiny minority and have deliberately chosen to surround themselves by a large number of intoxicated people.

As such an implied social contract exists with all patrons. Trying to hold everyone to account outside this contract (i.e. by pointing out they look / are acting ridiculous) is fairly stupid imo. Dancing is a good example. Most people cannot "really" dance. They just tend to flail around having a good time to the music. You can sit on the outside of the dance floor, not dancing, sipping your lemonade, attempting to be smug about those making fools of themselves but in this context that'd make you the pathetic one imo. As someone says to Ed Norton in American History X, "In here, you the ******".

As I said earlier though, it's a matter of outcome. I used to drink a lot less and I used to have a lot less fun as I'd go out less, meet new people less, etc. Most of the people I know who drink less have more boring social lives. These facts could both be coincidences and I realise there are exceptions but to me it's pretty telling.

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

As I said earlier though, it's a matter of outcome. I used to drink a lot less and I used to have a lot less fun as I'd go out less, meet new people less, etc. Most of the people I know who drink less have more boring social lives. These facts could both be coincidences and I realise there are exceptions but to me it's pretty telling.

Yeah, it tells you that people are unoriginal and the only available avenue is percieved to be alcohol. Why not drink when there is nothing better to do?

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Yeah, it tells you that people are unoriginal and the only available avenue is percieved to be alcohol.

Yeah, maybe. But just because something is common does not mean it's some herd mentality. A lot of people wear shoes because they're a good solution to the problem of cold / injured feet, not necessarily because they're all unoriginal.

Why not drink when there is nothing better to do?

Because in most situations that isn't the case which is why outside a tiny minority of alcoholics, most people don't drink most of the time.

[Boogster]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Modern life is a complex thing. We wear shoes to help us walk and we take drugs to help us talk to boring people at parties.

Is drug taking actually self-help or merely assimilation?

I wonder whether people would be so conscious of being shy if they went to different parties, or talked to different people.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

I actually like being insecure, it plays off well next to my outrageous arrogance.

For me it would be

I actually like being shy, it plays off well next to my outrageous arrogance.


When I finally 'get to know' someone, then, well, I am just the best.

[Tomkat]

ITT we realise theam can't take his alcohol

[qebab]

I really have no other reason to drink, than the fact that I have a lot more fun while being a bit drunk. I don't enjoy being hungover, so I usually limit myself at "intoxicated" instead of "majorly drunk". However, if you bring too much money when going to a pub, or so, you might end up totally wasted, when you were not really intending to. Thats the "control" part you're speaking about, I assume.

I don't do dancing drunk, and I get to know people more easily when I had a few beers. Those are lasting friendships too, and well, as I said; beer = more fun.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

3 down: Gobstore (anag.)

Bort Goes!

[Radical Edward]

Barclay, barry Bert, Bort....

[qebab]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

Barclay, barry Bert, Bort....

Congratulations on 5000 posts.

[JonnyBGood]

What a record setting week we're having at the minute!

[eJohn]

Life is an endless horrible procession of dissapointment, and alcohol boosts your self esteem and self confidence for a while, makes you aspire to be something you arent.

In fairness though, not anymore for me. It just brings me down, and i find talking about getting drunk, or preparing / starting to get drunk much more enjoyable than the actual experience, when i usually wonder what the hell ive done.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

3 down: Gobstore (anag.)

Storebog?

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

3 down: Gobstore (anag.)

Boogster!

[NEWSBOT3]

this thread depresses me.





i need a drink

[Deepflow]

I agree with ASG, I am by no means a big drinker, as in I don't do it very often. But when I do drink, i prefer to take it to its final conclusion: i.e passing out.

I don't always make it, but it's a fun race

[dda]

F***ing Irish sot!