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5 Feb 2009, 19:01
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#1
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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A Working Class Hero Once Again
I have been assigned a case to decide whether, what and who to prosecute. It is a case of a young woman (17 years old), an illegal alien farm worker, who died of a heat stroke while tending grape vines in San Joaquin County near Stockton.
She was wrapping vines in a vineyard which produces wine grapes for Two Buck Chuck. She had been given no "Heat Illness" training as is required. There wasn't any water readily available as required by law. There was no shade available as required. Plus, there was no air-conditioned area (such as an air conditioned vehicle) available for cool down.
She fainted and the forman told her boyfried that the day was about over so he should just wait a short while for the rest of the workers employed by Merced Farm Labor Contractors gathered to be transported back home. When the young woman didn't regain consciousness the forman told the boyfriend to tell the doctor that she had fallen and hit her head and that was why she was unconscious.
About an hour to an hour-and-a-half later she finally got to the hospital. She had a temperature of 108 degrees and died two days later without ever regaining consciousness.
If one googles her name Maria Isabel Vasquez Jiminez, one of the things that pops up is her story on the United Farm Workers (UFW) website. This is the union of Caesar Chavez and Viva la Raza.
Imagine a conservative Republican prosecuting greedy, exploitive capitalists! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!
Once again a working class champion!
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Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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6 Feb 2009, 11:31
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#2
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Go for capital punishment!!
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<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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6 Feb 2009, 19:50
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 113
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Nug Nug
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I thought my cat had dribbled over my screen but then I reaslised it was your post.
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\o/
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6 Feb 2009, 20:02
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#4
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Lucky
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: -
Posts: 3,830
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
i refuse to believe there wasn't water and shade available. it's a vineyard after all. secondly, she continued working herself, despite not being able anymore. the story doesn't say she was forced to. she was also stupid enough not to bring any drinks herself.
i'd agree the forman and farm deserve a punishment, but how imbeciles like this turn into heroes when they die -merely by their own stupidity- is beyond me. i think Darwin wrote something about people like her.
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6 Feb 2009, 21:20
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#5
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I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Even though the owner seems like a bastard, KoeN has a point.
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6 Feb 2009, 23:41
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#6
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
you know, heat exhaustion isnt always immediately evident - which is why it still happens, plus if its just job and if you dont do it you dont get paid and dont have a job, thats a pretty lagre incentive to keep going, even if you do feel a little unwell
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lazy
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7 Feb 2009, 00:09
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#7
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deserves a medal
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,211
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
I thought conservative Republicans were the working class.
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"I have with me two gods, Persuasion and Compulsion."
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7 Feb 2009, 04:01
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#8
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saint-ciboire de tabarnac
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 244
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoeN
i refuse to believe there wasn't water and shade available. it's a vineyard after all. secondly, she continued working herself, despite not being able anymore. the story doesn't say she was forced to. she was also stupid enough not to bring any drinks herself.
i'd agree the forman and farm deserve a punishment, but how imbeciles like this turn into heroes when they die -merely by their own stupidity- is beyond me. i think Darwin wrote something about people like her.
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Seems like the details are a little sketchy. I could see this type of foreman not providing water and breaks to his illegal farm workers though.
Quote:
When Maria collapsed in the fields on May 14, her foreman initially denied that there was anything wrong with her. When she didn't come to on her own, he ordered her daubed with rubbing alcohol to cool her down. When that didn't work, he had her loaded into a van and driven to a local clinic, rather than to a hospital equipped to treat heat-related illnesses -- and with orders that the clinic be told that she had collapsed while exercising so that the company wouldn't be blamed for employing an underage worker.
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Regardless, she isn't a hero by any stretch of the imagination. It's a sad case of a poorly educated 17 year old illegal immigrant worker being denied basic worker's rights, which is the main reason she died.
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7 Feb 2009, 14:54
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#9
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
Regardless, she isn't a hero by any stretch of the imagination.
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No.
She is the victim
and dda is the hero
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hi
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8 Feb 2009, 16:24
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
There's nothing remotely heroic here.
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9 Feb 2009, 00:16
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#11
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Old Man O Deh *****s
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In spelelpee land
Posts: 3,516
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
I think it's heroic that people still want to wade through rivers, climb over fences and cross deserts, and be paid pretty much the same wage they'd get at home, with worse conditions and fewer rights, simply because IT'S THE USA.
Either that or stupid. Shall we have a poll?
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Dead_Meat
You dont need to keep beating a dog to get it to stop shitting on the carpet
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9 Feb 2009, 06:15
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#12
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snadwich fetcher
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: ONE LOVE
Posts: 660
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
be paid pretty much the same wage they'd get at home
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Close, but October's Rural Development journal from the Department of Agriculture says average farm labourer earns about $11/day in Mexico, estimated average illegal farm labourer earns about $4/hour in the United States.
So, really not close.
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Nude On!
Last edited by Barrow|Pony; 9 Feb 2009 at 06:47.
Reason: missed l'apostrophe
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9 Feb 2009, 13:28
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#13
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Old Man O Deh *****s
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In spelelpee land
Posts: 3,516
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Wherever it was that the short bus dropped you off at in the morning, it sure as hell wasn't at a school that did Economics.
What about relative cost of living?
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Dead_Meat
You dont need to keep beating a dog to get it to stop shitting on the carpet
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9 Feb 2009, 18:42
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#14
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead_Meat
I think it's heroic that people still want to wade through rivers, climb over fences and cross deserts, and be paid pretty much the same wage they'd get at home, with worse conditions and fewer rights, simply because IT'S THE USA.
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I know things have changed a bit since you emigrated to the US, but I'm pretty sure British Airways were offering flights there
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"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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9 Feb 2009, 20:33
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#15
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
I hear US bankers are going in the opposite direction these days
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hi
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10 Feb 2009, 00:36
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#16
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Old Man O Deh *****s
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In spelelpee land
Posts: 3,516
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I know things have changed a bit since you emigrated to the US, but I'm pretty sure British Airways were offering flights there
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From Mexico?
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Dead_Meat
You dont need to keep beating a dog to get it to stop shitting on the carpet
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10 Feb 2009, 07:50
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#17
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead_Meat
What about relative cost of living?
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What about it?
I don't know how much Mexicans spend to live in the US and I don't know how much they earn; but I do know that in 2007 they sent 24 billion dollars to Mexico in the form of remittances to support their families back home (and that's just counting the money that flowed through banks and wire services and thus could be counted). Please note: that 24 billion dollars came out of the difference between what they earned here and what it cost them to live here ( i.e., net income). Given that not every Mexican sends all their income home, the total net income of all Mexican workers in the US is undoubtedly much higher.
Mexico suffers from high unemployment and, especially, underemployment. There just aren't tens of billions of dollars' worth of jobs lying around to keep those workers at home.
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The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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10 Feb 2009, 23:49
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#18
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Old Man O Deh *****s
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In spelelpee land
Posts: 3,516
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
But if you DO have a job, how does the cost of living compare when looking at fruit picking wages in the US and in Mexico?
But I'm not looking at whether or not it's easier to find a job in the US picking fruit than it is in Mexico. I'm looking at whether the quality of life for a Mexican fruit picker picking fruit in in Mexico is better than a Mexican fruit picker picking fruit in the US.
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Dead_Meat
You dont need to keep beating a dog to get it to stop shitting on the carpet
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10 Feb 2009, 23:59
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#19
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead_Meat
But if you DO have a job, how does the cost of living compare when looking at fruit picking wages in the US and in Mexico?
But I'm not looking at whether or not it's easier to find a job in the US picking fruit than it is in Mexico. I'm looking at whether the quality of life for a Mexican fruit picker picking fruit in in Mexico is better than a Mexican fruit picker picking fruit in the US.
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the people who make the journey aren't buying like for like.
they are buying what the US sells.
They buy the idea that they can achieve more. the fact that they can't is irrelevant to them.
America sows dreams and reaps a harvest of that hope.
Is it bad? is it good? evil? inspirational? purely self interested? Does it matter?
It is what it is. The system that is the US deliberately adopts policies which encourage them to come. Then the citizens of that system bitch about the effects of that same system.
The two facts; the american dream and migration of unpermitted workers are fundamentally intertwined. All you have to remember is that like most complicated truths it is not a two sided argument; it is four sided. 1) the migrants harm local jobs, 2) the migrant workers help local economy, 3) the US exploits innocents, 4) the US gives them hope.
Tacitus will be 1) and 4). Personally I am all 4.
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hi
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11 Feb 2009, 08:41
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#20
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead_Meat
But if you DO have a job, how does the cost of living compare when looking at fruit picking wages in the US and in Mexico?
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I don't know. I think Mexicans can and should make that determination for themselves.
Quote:
But I'm not looking at whether or not it's easier to find a job in the US picking fruit than it is in Mexico. I'm looking at whether the quality of life for a Mexican fruit picker picking fruit in in Mexico is better than a Mexican fruit picker picking fruit in the US.
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I don't know what 'quality of life' means, or if it means the same thing to different people. No one is forcing Mexicans to come here and no one is forcing them to stay here. If they don't find their 'quality of life' here to their liking then they should leave.
Of course, if they come here illegally that puts them at a further disadvantage; but that's part of the calculus too. In general, I'd prefer the US return to more open borders but we all have to live with the laws we have and not the laws we wish we had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
The two facts; the american dream and migration of unpermitted workers are fundamentally intertwined. All you have to remember is that like most complicated truths it is not a two sided argument; it is four sided. 1) the migrants harm local jobs, 2) the migrant workers help local economy, 3) the US exploits innocents, 4) the US gives them hope.
Tacitus will be 1) and 4).
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Actually, I'm 'none of the above.' All of these arguments were made even back when we had more-or-less unlimited legal immigration and they're still irrelevant.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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11 Feb 2009, 20:10
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#21
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Actually, I'm 'none of the above.' All of these arguments were made even back when we had more-or-less unlimited legal immigration and they're still irrelevant.
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rather silly to think either that:
a) that makes them old arguments
b) that makes them wrong
still, characteristic at least.
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hi
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18 Feb 2009, 06:46
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#22
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
For those who wish to go back to a more open border, the news is good. The Obama administration and the Democrats are very much inclined to allow more immigration. Whether it is good or bad wil soon be irrelevant as the Republicans and even the American citizenry do not have the clout to stop what is going to happen in this regard.
Did I mention that Arnold S. Governor of the Great State of California attended the funeral to show the compassionate side of Republicans?
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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28 Feb 2009, 01:40
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#23
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
I suspect that the tree-huging, fag-loving, not religious nutcase Arnold will be booted out of the Republican Party, or leave himself.
If not, I will be disappointed with Rove & co
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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28 Feb 2009, 06:53
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#24
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Arnold has never been a Republican. He has turned out to be a very weak governor. I long for the return of Gray Davis.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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2 Mar 2009, 16:13
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
nothing much changes around here.
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I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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2 Mar 2009, 21:01
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#26
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
we like consistency
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hi
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3 Mar 2009, 01:59
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#27
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
But we can enjoy old songs from the spanish civil war in a new version.
Brigada Bravo&Diaz, http://www.germandiaz.net/inicio_eng.html.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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3 Mar 2009, 22:36
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#28
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
You lost that one didn't you?
So, sad songs, then.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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8 Mar 2009, 01:58
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#29
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
You lost that one didn't you?
So, sad songs, then.
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remember the war against Franco,
that was the kind were each of us belongs,
'though he may have won all the battles,
we had all the good songs!
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hi
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10 Mar 2009, 14:45
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
we like consistency
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I'd imagine. Still taking the taxi everywhere?
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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10 Mar 2009, 22:13
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#31
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: A Working Class Hero Once Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
I'd imagine. Still taking the taxi everywhere?
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only when i can't walk - 'carbon footprint' you understand
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hi
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