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24 Jul 2006, 17:07
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#1
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Who?
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: #Comfy
Posts: 743
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Is Wales a Country?
I've just had a very interesting debate in my office.
Some are arguing Wales is a country (me included) and others are stating United Kingdom is the country.
So Wales have:
Their own language
Their own Flag
Their own National football team
A defined set of land
But they're not a country?
How is this so?
Apparently it depends on people's opinion
I quote from here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Geography Site.co.uk
However, the answer to the question varies according to whom you ask. Most people say there are 192 countries, but others point out that there could be more like 260 of them.
So why isn't there a straight forward answer?
The problem arises because there isn't a universally agreed definition of 'country' and because, for political reasons, some countries find it convenient to recognize or not recognize other countries.
For example, Taiwan claims to be a country, but China states that Taiwan is just another part of China. The consequence is that the USA, that doesn't want to upset China, doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country. Conversely, from the end of the Second World War, the Soviet Union annexed the countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania but the USA continued to regard them as independent countries that were 'occupied' because it didn't really get on with the USSR.
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So what is it?
A country or not?
__________________
#cnuts
For all your homoerotic needs
<Bobzy> Minty, you have a line for everything
<Queen> MINTY ROCKS
<Ice-Lady> minty is a odd boy
<Game> Minty rocks
<Queen> no minty..cos u rock
<HobbieRogue4> Minty, you stone!
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24 Jul 2006, 17:09
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#2
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
wales is a country
under occupation but still a country
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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24 Jul 2006, 17:13
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#3
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Who?
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: #Comfy
Posts: 743
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Ok so it is an independant country.
That is a given.
Like Australia is a seperate goverment but the Queen is their Head of State etc
__________________
#cnuts
For all your homoerotic needs
<Bobzy> Minty, you have a line for everything
<Queen> MINTY ROCKS
<Ice-Lady> minty is a odd boy
<Game> Minty rocks
<Queen> no minty..cos u rock
<HobbieRogue4> Minty, you stone!
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24 Jul 2006, 17:15
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#4
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
A region of England.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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24 Jul 2006, 17:19
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#5
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
there aer different words for the UK and its constituent states, firstly, you have england, which, surprisingly enough is just england, then, you have britain, which (iirc) is england, wales and scotland, then you have the united kingdom, which (again, iirc) is britain plus northern island and various islands.
wales scotland and england are all countries in their own right, NI isnt, and is rather a dependancy (not sure that that's the right word but ho hum) of britain
__________________
lazy
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24 Jul 2006, 17:27
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#6
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Wales is a principality.
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24 Jul 2006, 17:28
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#7
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
When in doubt why don't you just wiki (although i knew it was a Principality before i did so).
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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24 Jul 2006, 17:37
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#8
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
wales is just a big county really, I mean cornwall has their own language (and more of a claim to being its own country than most of the UK) but they're still viewed as a county.
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
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24 Jul 2006, 17:41
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#9
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Who cares, Wales is shit anyway.
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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24 Jul 2006, 17:42
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#10
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Next goal wins!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,406
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
The real question is: "What is a country". Answer that and we'll be sorted.
__________________
bastard bastard bastard bastard
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24 Jul 2006, 17:47
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#11
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
The real question is: "What is a country". Answer that and we'll be sorted.
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That's not a question.
I mean look at it.
There isn't even a question mark!
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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24 Jul 2006, 17:51
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#12
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Who?
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: #Comfy
Posts: 743
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampire_lestat
wales is just a big county really, I mean cornwall has their own language (and more of a claim to being its own country than most of the UK) but they're still viewed as a county.
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That is all well and good but they don't have a flag, a football team* etc
*that can qualify for the WC/Euro
__________________
#cnuts
For all your homoerotic needs
<Bobzy> Minty, you have a line for everything
<Queen> MINTY ROCKS
<Ice-Lady> minty is a odd boy
<Game> Minty rocks
<Queen> no minty..cos u rock
<HobbieRogue4> Minty, you stone!
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24 Jul 2006, 17:53
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#13
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Who?
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: #Comfy
Posts: 743
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
The real question is: "What is a country". Answer that and we'll be sorted.
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Well according to UK Goverment here say...
The United Kingdom is made up of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Great Britain, however, comprises only England, Scotland and Wales. Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles. Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic form the second largest island.
The UK is just under 1,000 km long from the south coast of England to the extreme north of Scotland, and is 500 km across at its widest point. It shares a single land border with the Irish Republic. Despite its relatively small size the UK boosts incredibly varied and often very beautiful scenery.
The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom. They are largely self-governing with their own legislative assemblies and systems of law. But the British Government is responsible for their defence and international relations.
On this site the term 'Britain' is used informally to mean the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Read on to find out more about how England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are administered.
Please tell me they are wrong, wouldn't be the only time they have been
__________________
#cnuts
For all your homoerotic needs
<Bobzy> Minty, you have a line for everything
<Queen> MINTY ROCKS
<Ice-Lady> minty is a odd boy
<Game> Minty rocks
<Queen> no minty..cos u rock
<HobbieRogue4> Minty, you stone!
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24 Jul 2006, 18:15
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#14
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minty
That is all well and good but they don't have a flag, a football team* etc
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That's because they don't have a seperate Football Association. If they had one, they could join FIFA and compete in international competition.
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24 Jul 2006, 18:30
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#15
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
For my money it is, simply because it has such accepted and well defined boundaries and a people that would call themselves "welsh" first rather than british.
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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24 Jul 2006, 18:39
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#16
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minty
That is all well and good but they don't have a flag, a football team* etc
*that can qualify for the WC/Euro
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flag, and world cup qualification is hardly a defining feature of weather or not a country is a country.
My point is this: if wales is a country, so is cornwall, and a number of other places in england, it's hardly fair to seperate one inward looking comunity and say "this is a country" and look at another and say "this is a county", when they can both offer the same justifying arguments as to why they are countries.
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
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24 Jul 2006, 18:58
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#17
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
I think the idea of countries is fundamentally meaningless so no it isn't, but then again neither is anything else.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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24 Jul 2006, 19:02
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#18
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Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 116
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minty
That is all well and good but they don't have a flag, a football team* etc
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A flag and a football team don't define a country, I'd say it is more about having an own government, legislation, international representation, etc.
I believe outside of the UK most people view Wales as part of Britain/England, not as an own country.
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24 Jul 2006, 19:05
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#19
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
If the United Kingdom is a country then Wales can't be a country too. It just does not make sense!
__________________
They mostly come at night. Mostly.
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24 Jul 2006, 20:08
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,944
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Wales is a principality.
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Is exactly what I was going to post.
__________________
I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which i'm dying
Are the best i've ever had
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24 Jul 2006, 20:25
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#21
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Wales is a principality.
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(i think you should add) ... created by the English post conquest.
__________________
hi
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24 Jul 2006, 20:44
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#22
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
If the United Kingdom is a country then Wales can't be a country too. It just does not make sense!
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They're both countries because the word has more than one meaning. The United Kingdom is a country in the sense of "a sovereign state", and Wales is a country in the sense of "a nation".
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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24 Jul 2006, 20:57
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#23
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I dunno...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
(i think you should add) ... created by the English post conquest.
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PS. The English are actually Danish.
__________________
He shall drink naught but brine, for I'll not show him / Where the quick freshes are.
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24 Jul 2006, 20:59
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#24
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
PS. The English are actually Danish.
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And we're all originally africans. Or maybe even amoebae from a comet!
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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24 Jul 2006, 21:03
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#25
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Wales is a state of mind.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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24 Jul 2006, 21:09
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#26
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Wales is a state of mind.
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despair
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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24 Jul 2006, 21:15
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#27
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Dirte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Isnt Wales a nation?
__________________
"Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he makes waffles not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it."
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24 Jul 2006, 21:38
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#28
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
A country, in the sense of being a nation, can pursue an independent foreign policy. Wales does not qualify.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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24 Jul 2006, 21:42
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#29
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
A country, in the sense of being a nation, can pursue an independent foreign policy. Wales does not qualify.
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That's a state.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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24 Jul 2006, 21:43
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#30
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
A country, in the sense of being a nation, can pursue an independent foreign policy. Wales does not qualify.
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neither does england under blair amirite?
edit:quote added for clarity
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
Last edited by vampire_lestat; 25 Jul 2006 at 01:08.
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24 Jul 2006, 21:52
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#31
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
PS. The English are actually Danish.
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what a curiously inaccurate thing to say ...
__________________
hi
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24 Jul 2006, 22:12
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#32
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
PS. The English are actually Danish.
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Germanic, if you're talking about the anglosaxons.
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25 Jul 2006, 01:09
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#33
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
I belive he's thinking about Norwegians, referring to the Normans.
He is of course mistaken.
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The Normans were from Brittany
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25 Jul 2006, 01:26
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#34
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Infrequent
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 186
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
As long as Norway and Japan keep bribing the likes of Essention Island and Lard is back on our shelves, I don't care if my lamb tastes of Brouwerij Breda.
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25 Jul 2006, 01:44
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#35
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Dirte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maladoni
As long as Norway and Japan keep bribing the likes of Essention Island and Lard is back on our shelves, I don't care if my lamb tastes of Brouwerij Breda.
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I dont understand a thing
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25 Jul 2006, 02:24
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#36
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Insanity Prawn Boy!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a bush where you can't find me
Posts: 2,474
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snurx
I dont understand a thing
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don't worry, no-one ever really knows what he's saying
__________________
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them.
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25 Jul 2006, 08:17
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 601
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Wales is the part of England that was too hilly so we let them have it
Nah, in all seriousness i believe it is its own country. They have there own infrastructure, capital and hills. Most Welsh people seem very very nationalistic though in my experience...
__________________
[DLR] [Conspiracy Theory] [1up] [Faceless] [Elysium] [LCH] [NewDawn] [Apprime]
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25 Jul 2006, 10:25
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#38
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For Crowly <3
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 1,391
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
its an annex of England
__________________
[14:53:26] * Keiz`afk has joined #support
[14:53:36] <Keiz`afk> THE SMUDGE CHEERLEADING TEAM HAS ARRIVED
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25 Jul 2006, 10:41
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#39
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
In 50 million years when the continents look different where will we all claim to be "from"?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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25 Jul 2006, 10:47
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#40
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Victim of Marriage
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
That's if the Earth is still here and we didn't blow it up, or totally kill the environment.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
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25 Jul 2006, 10:51
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#41
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
That's if the Earth is still here and we didn't blow it up, or totally kill the environment.
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The content of the question still stands regardless.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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25 Jul 2006, 10:58
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#42
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
In 50 million years when the continents look different where will we all claim to be "from"?
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Wherever the most meaningful division can be placed, culturally or socially. In the extremely unlikely event that humanity exists in any similar form I still doubt the division would be geographic then anyway.
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25 Jul 2006, 11:03
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#43
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
Say what now?
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They settled in Normandy in the early 10th century, I don't know if 160 years of nationalisation is enough to be counted as "from" a place.
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25 Jul 2006, 11:04
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#44
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Wherever the most meaningful division can be placed, culturally or socially. In the extremely unlikely event that humanity exists in any similar form I still doubt the division would be geographic then anyway.
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Unless we're fighting some form of inter-galactic war against invaders from the Andromeda galaxy.
Or maybe we'll all just be individuals by that stage. After all 50 million years might well be a long enough time for human beings to consider each other as people.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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25 Jul 2006, 11:06
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#45
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Victim of Marriage
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Unless we're fighting some form of inter-galactic war against invaders from the Andromeda galaxy.
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Maybe by then it will be us humans doing the anal probing of the alien species.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
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25 Jul 2006, 11:10
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#46
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Or maybe we'll all just be individuals by that stage.
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I doubt while we'll ever "just" be individuals. Subcategories will always exist and I don't see that as particular problematic. Perhaps the divisions will be more light hearted and/or based more on rational criteria but either way.
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25 Jul 2006, 11:13
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#47
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I doubt while we'll ever "just" be individuals. Subcategories will always exist and I don't see that as particular problematic.
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If technology has advanced to the stage where being in a collective grants you no more abilities than being alone (for which the "power" of the average individual must be enormous, as must the quality of the AIs) then it's possible only deliberate rebellious luddites would form social groupings.
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25 Jul 2006, 11:15
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#48
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
If technology has advanced to the stage where being in a collective grants you no more abilities than being alone (for which the "power" of the average individual must be enormous, as must the quality of the AIs) then it's possible only deliberate rebellious luddites would form social groupings.
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You don't necessarily have to be in a social grouping to be a category of individual. 'Left handed people' are a category of people yet they obviously don't live in any sort of distinct social grouping. Perhaps slightly less extremely you have people who are classical music fans who don't want autonomy from rock fans (or whatever).
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25 Jul 2006, 11:16
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#49
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I doubt while we'll ever "just" be individuals. Subcategories will always exist and I don't see that as particular problematic. Perhaps the divisions will be more light hearted and/or based more on rational criteria but either way.
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Obviously I have no problem with people categorising things a certain way in their minds. More how this so often manifests itself as discrimination and xenophobia.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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25 Jul 2006, 11:23
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#50
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Victim of Marriage
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
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Re: Is Wales a Country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
If technology has advanced to the stage where being in a collective grants you no more abilities than being alone (for which the "power" of the average individual must be enormous, as must the quality of the AIs) then it's possible only deliberate rebellious luddites would form social groupings.
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I don't think technology in and of itself would have any influence on social behaviour any more so than currently. Social change will come from better knowledge and understanding of the current societies, the people living in them, and the world around us. Technology is a result of our increased understanding of science, however it can be a useful tool in helping us understand other societies, and perhaps gain more insight, increasing your own understanding.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
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