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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:30   #151
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

I'll have to retract my earlier criticism, this has certainly become one of the most vibrant and closely contested rounds ever. Surely a wonderful advertisement for PA as its new owners take over. My only regret is that Ascendancy deciding to hit NFI has clearly unbalanced the round and NFI are so badly outnumbered that they're really struggling now. For my errors in this regard I can only offer my sincere, heartfelt apology to the PA community at large.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:33   #152
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Which do you think is a worse reflection on the game... one alliance leading the round, or the amount of bitching you've done?
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:39   #153
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

You can't see me but I'm doing a seal-clap in recognition of the fact that you've finally managed to take part in creating an alliance which didn't face-palm itself completely within its first round
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:50   #154
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

You talking about the disaster that was Denial's first round?

I still don't think Denial was a total disaster - it lasted a few rounds, finished 2nd on it's first round and yeah - there were several mistakes made which ultimately cost us the round win - but I maintain that there have been a lot worse alliances.

Take anything started by/ran by Assassin, for example...
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:54   #155
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

lets not bring up denial before the videos get linked :/
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:55   #156
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Given the participants in this conversation, I highly doubt that was in danger of happening.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 19:07   #157
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Take anything started by/ran by Assassin, for example...
"we look good next to Angels" is going to be a valid defence soon
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 19:34   #158
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

these are R29 stats on the most part, NFI done the same as ASC did that round.

nfi why pateam decided to use R29 stats out of all the rounds.

and yes CT napped ASC in that round, at some point you have to accept the #1 alliance is too powerfull
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 20:08   #159
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Why would anyone limit their options needlessly?

However, he's not lying, I did offer Firebird to work together and take out every other alliance so that NFI and Apprime could duke it out without any outside involvement.

He wasn't willing to take this option, though. I.e. we offered them the option to fight us 1 vs. 1 without either of us having any political options to go to if we were to lose said end fight.

They were not willing to fight us in such a manner, implicitly meaning if we were to fight it would have to be a political fight, as we could not trust them not to try and do the same. We simply did it better. That's not something I'm going to ever be ashamed of.
Of course they won't accept that fight - because everyone would turn on Apprime to prevent them being in a position to roid the shit out of everyone. In short, I think this is pretty much a non-offer. In terms of this thread, it's just a big red herring. Which is why in Ascendancy land, we pretty much knew you couldn't politically fail once it was clear ND weren't going to be hitting you. Even if Apprime and Ascendancy had succeeded, it is pretty clear that Ascendancy would have taken actions to curtail Apprime.

Which is precisely why we consider your actions in napping CT unnecessary and excessive in the circumstances, because this round was over. Instead of just nuking us yourselves which you were more than capable of, you chose to get extra forces you didn't need and stagnate the universe to a ridiculous level.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 20:17   #160
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
"we look good next to Angels" is going to be a valid defence soon
Angels, Jenova, p3nguins. I felt sure there was another one too...
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 20:58   #161
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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Angels, Jenova, p3nguins. I felt sure there was another one too...
Audentes.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 22:29   #162
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
these are R29 stats on the most part, NFI done the same as ASC did that round.

nfi why pateam decided to use R29 stats out of all the rounds.
I don't see how you can say that it's the stats' fault that the uni is stagnated. the fleets used are totally different(FR\DE this round while r29 was mainly fico) and NFI have used vastly different tactics than asc did.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 22:34   #163
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

When gm says 'the same as' he means 'something completely different than'. I have a list of translations like this that improve his posts drastically.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 23:29   #164
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Of course they won't accept that fight - because everyone would turn on Apprime to prevent them being in a position to roid the shit out of everyone.
Read again, the offer was to take every other alliance out to such an extent that they could no longer influence the round, i.e. the only way the round could actually be turned into a proper 1 vs. 1 fight.

As for depending on Ascendancy to help secure a win or whatever...yeah, thanks but no thanks.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 03:04   #165
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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Originally Posted by Shev View Post
Audentes.
Thank you!

Yeah, Denial was better than Audentes too lol.

Though I'm sure JBG was referring more to how Denial shot itself in the foot time and time again, as opposed to it being an outright bad alliance.

And JBG, give me time - I'll find a way...
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 06:55   #166
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Read again, the offer was to take every other alliance out to such an extent that they could no longer influence the round, i.e. the only way the round could actually be turned into a proper 1 vs. 1 fight.

As for depending on Ascendancy to help secure a win or whatever...yeah, thanks but no thanks.
This entirely misses the point that alliances would have a choice of hitting NFI or Apprime in this scenario, putting Apprime would be well behind in roid count by the time you achieved any such aim. Moreover, even if everyone chose to limit your growth by working with Apprime after that point they would never let it happen to a point where Apprime could turn on anyone else, and probably only use them to contain rather than destroy NFI. And if your point is that they wouldn't be in a position to do that, then Apprime would have lost.

NFI working with Apprime automatically puts Apprime in the weaker position, which is why they (rightly) refused it. Because it was a non-offer.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 09:55   #167
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Read again, the offer was to take every other alliance out to such an extent that they could no longer influence the round, i.e. the only way the round could actually be turned into a proper 1 vs. 1 fight.
That deserves to be quoted for its sheer ridiculousness. Even with Apprime, that proposal is all but impossible to carry out in a 7 or 8 week round. Even flattened the other alliances would instantly regain their political importance as soon as the two alliances who had 'taken them out' fought each other. Its rare to totally destroy one alliance let alone the rest of the top5 or top10. Even such disasters as Jenova in r26 re-engaged in politics during the endgame because things that looked closed mid round, were suddenly open again.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 11:51   #168
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Sun_Tzu and his alikes are just the reason this game is shit. Making an offer to completely ruin a lot of players round just to boost his own ego. You have successfully made an alliance completely depending on others to achieve anything. The reason Ascendancy and Apprime got to where it did was because of improving the memberbase to rely on noone, fighting wars outnumbered every round. You choose to take the easy route because the game allows you to, but your victory will not improve your alliance, and next round you will still rely on others.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 12:00   #169
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

hahahahaha
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 12:46   #170
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Wow, Hanzi in making a semi-truthful post for once shocker.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 12:54   #171
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

tho both App and Asc usually had a sympathetic bystander or two, who sometimes was not so much of a bystander, be it VsN or ROCK or whoever, NFI just take that to the extreme really.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 13:15   #172
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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tho both App and Asc usually had a sympathetic bystander or two, who sometimes was not so much of a bystander, be it VsN or ROCK or whoever, NFI just take that to the extreme really.
We did share ROCK yeah, but they usually random gal raided instead of hitting with us. The rare thing happened in round 35 though, when a block was raised we had help in targeting from Vision,vgn,oddr,p3ng. All small-medium sized alliances far away from the top5 though!
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 13:34   #173
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

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We did share ROCK yeah, but they usually random gal raided instead of hitting with us. The rare thing happened in round 35 though, when a block was raised we had help in targeting from Vision,vgn,oddr,p3ng. All small-medium sized alliances far away from the top5 though!
Even while I was in apprime I said that that was a joke. I can't imagine how it'd feel to be in NFI this round heh.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 14:24   #174
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Yeah though it was unusual and funny. 5 alliances made a block and we counterblocked with some smaller alliances that would be farmed by the block if we died. Made it into a block war. The smaller alliances gained on it and so did we.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 16:37   #175
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

It makes me feel sad in my soul, to see that JBG has fallen so far from his lofty greatness.

It's like when the big black panther dies in Avatar, the world will forever be a poorer place.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 20:42   #176
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

are u 4real!?!?

http://pastebin.com/W6Zta1qi

JUST A GAME CALM DOWN!
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 21:06   #177
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Even while I was in apprime I said that that was a joke. I can't imagine how it'd feel to be in NFI this round heh.
boring
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 21:40   #178
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
are u 4real!?!?

http://pastebin.com/W6Zta1qi

JUST A GAME CALM DOWN!
That's surreal.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 21:54   #179
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Hahahahahaha.

P.S. What do you people have against starting new threads? Is it some kind of religious thing?
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Unread 5 Sep 2010, 12:11   #180
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
are u 4real!?!?

http://pastebin.com/W6Zta1qi

JUST A GAME CALM DOWN!
I thought the community had started to move away from the overbearing HC model of traditional alliances with the emergence of Apprime and others trying the "anarchic" model, but wtf is this shit?!
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Unread 5 Sep 2010, 12:42   #181
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

I actually think this will make the possibility of a relay of ND chans even higher, as people would want to 'break' in. I don't see why anyone would wanna relay chans in the first place tho.
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Unread 5 Sep 2010, 12:43   #182
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Were you in #CT.tv? It's for entertainment. And I'm already working on it.
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Unread 5 Sep 2010, 12:44   #183
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

No I wasn't
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Unread 5 Sep 2010, 19:08   #184
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Looks like #ND.Tv is switching to digital
For those who are on the old analogue signal will lose service.... Soon

viva the digital revolution.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 14:38   #185
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
are u 4real!?!?

http://pastebin.com/W6Zta1qi

JUST A GAME CALM DOWN!
As my absence here should show the amount of things going on here that I care about amount to about uhh very few.

This is one thing though that makes me mad. MAD.

A little more seriously, this is dumb because:
- Expecting people to give up the privacy of all their IRC for you is too much. If they want to discuss sexual preference, the fat kid on the street or anything else that's got nothing to do with their alliance in private, then they should be able to do this without watching over their shoulders. Privacy and anonymity on the internet are valuable things we shouldn't part with easily.
- It is ridiculously easy to circumvent.
- There is absolutely no good reason to be this nazi about security. You are not the guardians of Fort Knox. In fact, I think you credit yourselves too much if you think there is a great number of people who are really interested in knowing what's going on in your private channel, whoever you are.

Any client that supports logging can be used to make undetectable relays even with this scheme. It's not even complicated - I could make a script that uses something similar to $ tail -f logs/netgamers/#ascendancy.log to write every new happing in #ascendancy to a different irc client. Or I could just serve this log over http.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 16:32   #186
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

https, man! Gotta be secure!
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 18:15   #187
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

I love the name though, Project CounterTerror.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 19:41   #188
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

who said to give up the privacy of their irc? like i see it the only privacy they would lose is the alliance channels and nothing else. And yes setting up a relay to web or something else would work but there are ways against that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab View Post
As my absence here should show the amount of things going on here that I care about amount to about uhh very few.

This is one thing though that makes me mad. MAD.

A little more seriously, this is dumb because:
- Expecting people to give up the privacy of all their IRC for you is too much. If they want to discuss sexual preference, the fat kid on the street or anything else that's got nothing to do with their alliance in private, then they should be able to do this without watching over their shoulders. Privacy and anonymity on the internet are valuable things we shouldn't part with easily.
- It is ridiculously easy to circumvent.
- There is absolutely no good reason to be this nazi about security. You are not the guardians of Fort Knox. In fact, I think you credit yourselves too much if you think there is a great number of people who are really interested in knowing what's going on in your private channel, whoever you are.

Any client that supports logging can be used to make undetectable relays even with this scheme. It's not even complicated - I could make a script that uses something similar to $ tail -f logs/netgamers/#ascendancy.log to write every new happing in #ascendancy to a different irc client. Or I could just serve this log over http.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 05:40   #189
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

If ND fail to make any more political moves for the remainder of the round, as looks likely, then I fail to see that spying on them would bring anyone anything worthwhile at all, so you are just protecting yourself against a mirage.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 06:34   #190
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
If ND fail to make any more political moves for the remainder of the round, as looks likely, then I fail to see that spying on them would bring anyone anything worthwhile at all, so you are just protecting yourself against a mirage.
There has been a relay in ND during previous rounds, and they are always susceptible to spying since they take in less well known players. It might seem draconian in an alliance such as Asc, but I doubt their playerbase would object to an attempt at weeding out the bad apples from their midst, if it allows them to keep on playing as the kind of alliance they want to be.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 10:05   #191
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
they are always susceptible to spying since they take in less well known players.
if they took in less clowns and concentrated on building a small loyal core of competent players there would probably be a lot less crashing, a lot less emo, more fun for members of long standing, and more chance to have a decent impact on a round.

on the downside, if they did this, i would seriously consider signing up again.

its not good (imho) that the games oldest alliance is effectively a training alliance.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 10:45   #192
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

I just wonder how ND manages to keep their members with their nap to 2nd policy...
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 11:15   #193
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
I just wonder how ND manages to keep their members with their nap to 2nd policy...
What do you mean man?

Seems ND are doing particularly well this round.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 12:21   #194
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

For people who want a high finish ND's politics are perfect.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 12:51   #195
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA View Post
What do you mean man?

Seems ND are doing particularly well this round.
ND always does 'well'.
Their politics usually involve napping the winning alliance / block, hitting people smaller than them.
If you can't do 'well' in that environment, you cant do 'well' anywhere.

No guts = no glory...
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 13:11   #196
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

A policy like that tends have a hard time retaining veterans, but attracts more newbies. See also: every single training alliance ever to exist.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 13:35   #197
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
ND always does 'well'.
Their politics usually involve napping the winning alliance / block, hitting people smaller than them.
If you can't do 'well' in that environment, you cant do 'well' anywhere.

No guts = no glory...
In fairness to ND you could only possibly accuse them of this for this round and the round before last in the previous 20 odd rounds. And in reality everyone's politics have tended this way somewhat in the last while.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 14:00   #198
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Talking Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab View Post
if they took in less clowns and concentrated on building a small loyal core of competent players there would probably be a lot less crashing, a lot less emo, more fun for members of long standing, and more chance to have a decent impact on a round.

on the downside, if they did this, i would seriously consider signing up again.

its not good (imho) that the games oldest alliance is effectively a training alliance.
On the plus side of taking in new folk you don't get the usual bellends, egos, def leeches etc.... as you would find in certain allies. Then again I've seen some battle reports / crashes, members hemorrhages and general migration from the so called "superpower allies" this round.

Im not sure what your point is
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 14:10   #199
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

I don't think the alliances you refer to as "superpower alliances" are worthy of the name any more than my mother is worthy of the title "miss universe".
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 7 Sep 2010, 18:05   #200
Buly
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Re: NFI Statement on todays political shifts

heh, all this slagging on ND this and last round shows the overall hipocracy in this fking game. But but, it's ofcourse alot of propaganda too, I can admit myself that I've whined at other alliances for similar shit.

But seriously, can't we for example compaire this round to rounds when Asc and App have dominated together, using the excuse that they worked together since the whole uni ganged up on them?
I can remember a few of those, but not exactly which round numbers. 1 particularly in mind was when Theam and Reese ran Asc.

It's however like this round, ND and NFI napped and got hit by a counterblock (App, Asc, Osi + whoever else there was). Why break up then?

Or like VsN winning a round through naping around + getting Apprime support (which Hanzi admited when he wrote some thread about being pissed at VsN after this happened). How did their politics ever differ much from ND politics apart from that they upon that were someones muppet every round they played apart when they got support back from their masters?

Or CT winning through naps and shit, no competition, and actively using the tactic of giving out pnaps here and there.

Seriously, how the fk can anyone here say that ND does shittier or more cowardly politics than anyone else in this game?

On another sidenote, why the feck would ND even have broken the NAP with NFI this round, knowing they'd take the main heat from NFI for it, and upon that the huge chance, or actually 99.99% chance that Apprime would backstab them in an attempt for #1?

Or aside that, why the fk would ND wanna do anything together with an alliance that constantly calls them shit and retards and that are very well known backstabbers and shit to work with, ND having quite a bit of experience of this.

It's Apprimes fault this round went like this, not ND's.
Ahh, and the fact that Apprime were apparently very overestimated, I never thought they'd roll over and die as easily as they did this round. I meen, they really did that within a few days.

One more, ND have been involved in some pretty intense rounds these past ones, which all more or less have ended up in them loosing. They needed an easy round this round.
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