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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 18:45   #1
All Systems Go
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A British Constitution

Britain should get itself a proper constitution so basic freedoms can't be ****ed about by any government looking for some easy 'oh, look at us we're combatting terrorism' points.

Discuss.
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 18:53   #2
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Re: A British Constitution

magna carta?
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 18:57   #3
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Re: A British Constitution

But America has a proper constitution (albeit a bad one) and it hasnt really helped them much.
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 19:10   #4
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Re: A British Constitution

True. We are completely adrift. That's why we have never amounted to anything.
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 19:12   #5
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Re: A British Constitution

Theres never really been a constitution i 'agreed' with, the American one whilst not perfect is still better (far far better) than the failed EU one (once i had a chance to look into it). Besides the idea of a constitution that near enough sets in stone guiding principles for a the rest of time is more than a little suffocating in my opinion. People defer to it and treat it with reverence even if its use is against the greater good of the people.
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 19:14   #6
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Re: A British Constitution

Our constitution works perfectly well already. Nothing can stop a determined government with the support of the people
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 19:17   #7
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Re: A British Constitution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Our constitution works perfectly well already. Nothing can stop a determined government with the support of the people
I think you're confusing mindless apathy with support.

People don't care what laws are passed as long as they don't come from Europe.
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 19:18   #8
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Re: A British Constitution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
But America has a proper constitution (albeit a bad one) and it hasnt really helped them much.
natural american oppositions to concepts like freedom, democracy, separation of church and state, etc. are counterbalanced by our constitution (in a sort of zoroastrian eternal war), plopping us somewhere down in the middle.

i'd hazard that the average brit is at least on average indifferent to those concepts, so such a document might have more purchase on your side.
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 19:26   #9
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Re: A British Constitution

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
natural american oppositions to concepts like freedom, democracy, separation of church and state, etc. are counterbalanced by our constitution (in a sort of zoroastrian eternal war), plopping us somewhere down in the middle.
Not really. Your constitution has too many stupidly ambiguous clauses (general welfare, interstate commerce, etc) which allow the supreme court to interpret it pretty much any way they want to.

Also the part about the government being the ones in charge of appointing supreme court judges is just such an obviously bad idea that I cant understand why anyone believed it could work.
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 19:35   #10
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Re: A British Constitution

And while the House of Peers withholds
Its legislative hand,
And noble statesmen do not itch
To interfere with matters which
They do not understand,
As bright will shine Great Britain's rays
As in King George's glorious days
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 19:46   #11
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Re: A British Constitution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Our constitution works perfectly well already. Nothing can stop a determined government with the support of the people

What would we have even count as a constitution? I've always taken the word to mean a fundamental codified piece of work. What we have could as easily be described as 'tradition' as anything else. The distinction im trying to make is that a constitution engenders a sense of measurement about how things will be done, whereas we've never 'set out' (measured) anything, we've just carried on as we've always carried on, and if anyone asks, instead of confusing them we just point and say 'thats our constitution'.
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 23:52   #12
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Re: A British Constitution

Our constitution is ace.

Blair railroading over it isn't.
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Unread 22 Oct 2005, 02:13   #13
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Re: A British Constitution

A codified constitution is absolutely no guarentee of freedoms being maintained. Britain may use a system of precident in its rulings rather than a constitution, but in reality the United States constitution is nothing but a baseline for a subsequent series of precidential rulings, which have in many cases warped the original meaning of the text almost beyond recognition. The second Amendment is a perfect example.

I have read many constitutions in my studies, and you want to know who the best, most enlightened, most near-ideal constituion I have ever read belonged to? The USSR.

The former Soviet constitution was a masterwork of eloquence and balance. It is also a perfect example of the fact that having a codified constitution in no way creates any more stability than the non-codified British system. Trust me, the asserted limiting of freedoms currently in vogue in the UK has nothing to do with a constitution, or lack of it.
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Unread 22 Oct 2005, 02:50   #14
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Re: A British Constitution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermillion
Britain may use a system of precident in its rulings rather than a constitution,
actually that is what is called 'the common law'.
Our unwritten constitution doesn't require, nor is it based upon, court rulings or precedents.

It's a very difficult thing for non lawyers to understand. A non british non lawyer can be forgiven his mistakes, as I forgive you yours.
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Unread 22 Oct 2005, 13:55   #15
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Exclamation Re: A British Constitution

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Our constitution is ace.

Blair railroading over it isn't.
Prime Ministers can do more or what they like with the constitution, such as it is.

We are an "elected dictatorship."

That fact that we probably have the most powerful executive in the western world has never really thrilled me much, although clearly Stephen and many others feel differently.
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