World Leaders That Don't Suck

[furball]

Originally Posted by djbass

I've never seen him [Howard] playing on racism for votes, can you give any examples?

The 2001 federal election. It was undoubtedly focused on asylum seekers, and Howard won the election by appealing to racism.

http://www.australianpolitics.com/fo...03guardian.htm for more details

[djbass]

Originally Posted by Nusselt

Would that mean australia joining NAFTA? first ive heard about this. Surely being more involved in asia would be the thing for australia?

I really don't know, but from reading about NAFTA I'd say some of the goals are simular. As for Asia, they're in the middle of negotiating a FTA right now, which is why I'm geussing they didn't want to follow up on the Chen Yonglin issue.

Originally Posted by furball

The 2001 federal election. It was undoubtedly focused on asylum seekers, and Howard won the election by appealing to racism.

I can't see how not wanting people who break the system on our shores is racist, that's just a play by the media to get a spin on the issue. It just so happens that a larger percentage of them are of asian origin.

We try to be a multicultural nation, but there are some aspects of different cultures that we do not want to encourage here that are major issues for Australia. Two examples would be a lot of the drug-smuggling rings and Triads that already exist in many areas, and such an uncontrolled importation of immigrants would only allow such things to flourish.

BTW, I see it ironic that The Guardian in that article is calling our mainstream press 'Tabloid', especially when I'd so readilly hand it the same label.

[KoeN]

people who don't become worldleader suck more than people who do become worldleader.

[Nusselt]

Australia was built by criminal immigrants. You need them. :-p

[furball]

Originally Posted by djbass

I can't see how not wanting people who break the system on our shores is racist, that's just a play by the media to get a spin on the issue. It just so happens that a larger percentage of them are of asian origin.

We try to be a multicultural nation, but there are some aspects of different cultures that we do not want to encourage here that are major issues for Australia. Two examples would be a lot of the drug-smuggling rings and Triads that already exist in many areas, and such an uncontrolled importation of immigrants would only allow such things to flourish.

BTW, I see it ironic that The Guardian in that article is calling our mainstream press 'Tabloid', especially when I'd so readilly hand it the same label.

A starter for ten: can you accept that some Australians are racist? If you can't...

Anti-immigration policies naturally play on peoples' racist feelings, whether they are aware of them or not. Look at how Howard's coalition drained support from Pauline Hanson's One Nation party, while still looking 'Prime Ministerial' while he exploited the SIEV-X disaster. How about the Tampa? I think you're being a little bit naive if you think that Howard wasn't thinking about how he would look in the election.

How about his refusal to formally apologise to the Aborigines for their foul treatment during the early and mid-20th century? The stolen generation?

Originally Posted by BBC site on John Howard

Prime Minister John Howard is among the majority of Australians who oppose a collective apology for things which were done before they were born - though he says he is personally sorry for any wrongs committed

On the face of it, this might make some sense. But it's not him apologising, it's the non-Abrorigine people of Australia apologising to one of their own ethnic groups, the one group that is actually native to the continent. Where's the sucking up of some pride? Make things right. I'm fairly sure that Blair apologised for plenty of things at the beginning of his first term.


Anyway I got a bit off-topic there, sorry. The Guardian as a tabloid?...nope! It's the Independent which has gone semi-tabloid.

[Nusselt]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Obviously you are doing that thing, but I would point out that the main crime of many of those deported to Australia was being Irish or poor.

Doing what thing? It was a light hearted comment reemphasised by the :-p

[djbass]

Originally Posted by furball

A starter for ten: can you accept that some Australians are racist? If you can't...

Of course I can, many of my best friends are racist, even my old man, but honestly if you lived where I do you'd understand why.

Anti-immigration policies naturally play on peoples' racist feelings, whether they are aware of them or not. Look at how Howard's coalition drained support from Pauline Hanson's One Nation party, while still looking 'Prime Ministerial' while he exploited the SIEV-X disaster. How about the Tampa? I think you're being a little bit naive if you think that Howard wasn't thinking about how he would look in the election.

Once again, this is hardly a revelation. Any leader or political figure will seek to exploit such issues in order to gain popularity, that's just politics 101. What really matters is how the leader handles critical events during their term, to this extent I think he's done a fantastic job.

How about his refusal to formally apologise to the Aborigines for their foul treatment during the early and mid-20th century? The stolen generation?

On the face of it, this might make some sense. But it's not him apologising, it's the non-Abrorigine people of Australia apologising to one of their own ethnic groups, the one group that is actually native to the continent. Where's the sucking up of some pride? Make things right. I'm fairly sure that Blair apologised for plenty of things at the beginning of his first term.

Is this the point where I'm supposed to laugh or were you actually being serious? First person to ask me that question IRL gets a punch to the head, it just might knock some sense into it.

I'll go back to my first point for this one. Unless you live here, I can understand this issue being really hard to come grips with for international people, infact even people who do live here and reside in any one of our capital cities have a sheltered view of the indigenous population.

For starters, Aboriginal people are very well off. They get more benifits from the government than everyone else, how's that for racist? I'd say more of our tax dollars go toward supporting them and their various organisations than any other entity funded under the government. Then there is the Native Title Act, an abomination that resulted from the Mabo treaty. If you're not familier with this little number it gives indigenous people power to claim land that they decide some ambiguous ancestor used to have dreams on. This in itself would not be a major issue except that just about ANY land is open to claim, even one that is already an established residentual area or business if the claimee can come up with a convincing enough story that it has some cultural significance to their people. You want to talk about exploitation, they are king of that game, as it seems the majority of these Native Title claims have been over areas seen as profitable, yet they held no interest in the area prior to it becoming a commercial venture.

I have seen people lose their homes and business as a result of this silly treaty. Even our major tourist attractions have fallen prey, Uluru (AKA Ayers Rock), a big drawing card situated close to where I live is now under strict supervision of the indigenous local, and they want it all to themselves. Though tourists don't seem to respect it anyway, it was the decision of the local land owners that it would no longer be open to the public, no pictures and no climbing of the rock, a tradition that has been shared for well over 20 years.

As they are so well off, many don't seek to work at all, quite happy to live off benifits that any dole bludger would be jealous of. So what do they do with their spare time? Sit around camp fires throwing hate at the government for their mistreatment while boozing up the tax dollars, all for a cause their race has long forgotten the true meaning of.

Forgive me if there just doesn't seem to be much cause for a group hug, and I fully support Howard on this one. Just so you don't think I'm racist now, I'll tell you that many of their own people feel the same way.

[Nusselt]

Do aborigonals specifically get more benefits than anyone else? if so is it a time dependant act? or is it socio-economic targeting? I suspect that the native title act is done under some sort of judical review to ensure the claims aren't trivial. As for ayers rock, speaking as a non australian in touristy terms, its more interesting and attractive when 'attached' to the aborigonals than the 'other' australians.


Your views also seem very similar to those held in britain at various times for single mother etc, of late the gypsy/traveller communities have been the ones targeted by the tabloids.

[All Systems Go]

No photographs of Ayers Rock seems stupid. No climbing, less so. tens of thousands of tourists repeatedly climbing the same rock would cause massive damage over time and it would eventual cease to be a tourist destination. to be honest, I would hardly call something that has been gonig on for 20 years a 'tradition' even though it is in the strictest sense of the word.

[Boogster]

Reading this thread has not provided the enlightenment I thought it would.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Obviously you are doing that thing, but I would point out that the main crime of many of those deported to Australia was being Irish or poor.

And beeing both Irish and poor was a severe offense

Explorer just wasted my reply to MM, I will see if I bother writing it again.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

And beeing both Irish and poor was a severe offense

they would have died otherwise.

your beliefs cloud you judgement.

[G.K Zhukov]

otherwise?? HELLO, a good million (if not more) died after the poteto crop failed, while the British Goverment did next to noting.

But hey, they were irish and poor

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

otherwise?? HELLO, a good million (if not more) died after the poteto crop failed, while the British Goverment did next to noting.

But hey, they were irish and poor

uh huh.

foreign nationals.

we did more than your biggotry will let you see.

[dda]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

uh huh.

foreign nationals.

we did more than your biggotry will let you see.

Oh great! The next thing you know the Irish and the English won't be getting along!

[Yahwe]

oi

shut it you

getting drunk on st patrick's day doesn't make you irish. it just makes you drunk

and far too often.

loud

[NEWSBOT3]

pfft, irish.