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Unread 21 Nov 2005, 17:13   #1
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OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Ok, so most of this will only interest the computer geeks of this forum, but if you read the linked article, the second part of this thread and the main question would relate to us all, hence my decision not to post this on the hardware or programming section of the forums.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index...S&NewsID=13180

The article merely states that the newest developer build of OSX, version 10.4.3 or Tiger which has been released on the Intel development machines has been cracked so it will run under any compatible Intel box, as opposed to the Apple designed Intel machines with the TPM chip. Obviously this was always going to happen. I have the OSX 10.4 initial Intel release which has been cracked and started it up on a bog standard P4 Compaq Deskpro. Unfortunately, Compaq don't use standard IDE controllers, so OSX didn't have the required drivers to start the controller and thus crashed when attempting to find an installation destination. This is irrelevant though, the important part was the OSX installer actually booted and went through all the correct motions prior to this.

Anyway, torrents are available of the release and it should run on any Intel P4 chipset - the release of OSX requires certain features of the Intel chip which AMD and even the Intel Celeron's don't provide.

But, on to the discussion part.

The last section of the article goes into an expressed opinion of an Intel version of OSX, made comercially and legitmately available would be a contender for Windows. Personally, I can see it happening. Apple's revolutionary OS seems to have been welcolmed throughout the IT world - it's integration with Active Directory, it's inherent UNIX stability and security and it's simple and easy to use interface. The article states that people use Windows because they are forced to. This isn't strictly true - Linux is available in numerous flavours, but I can see the point he makes. A few year back I decided to delve into the world of Linux. I hated it from the outset. Everything seemed like a struggle, nothing appeared available. Hardware was unsupported and software was buggy. Six year on or so, I'm considering sitting my RHCE exams and run Linux two of my three PC's (or more I did when I lived in the house they currently reside in!)

OSX and Windows - well, everything is just there. Easily accessible and fairly simple to use. OSX more so, with it's inclusion of iTunes, iMovie and others. Personally I'd say Windows and OSX are fairly similarly matched. Like anything, if you know how to use it, everything is simple to achieve - as I now know is the case with Linux, although I think this has the steepest learning curve.

Off with my babbling.

"Apple should open-source its OS, port Openoffice.org to Aqua and bundle it for Intel PC's. Offer it for $199 for a home edition and $299 for a professional edition and the world will say goodbye to Windows for good,"


If Apple were to release OSX under the above terms, would you switch over to OSX on your PC's or would you stick with Windows? Bear in mind that 95% of software which is available on Windows is also available on OSX - including most leading games if you visit the Apple store or various Mac websites.

Personally, I'd have to say no. My reason being two fold, I already own a G4 Powerbook which runs Tiger and a PC laptop which runs XP. Secondly, my PC is used for testing things on a non Apple platform and vice versa.

Would you switch? I can see benefits to switching, especially for users such as Enby with his photography and the less technically minded users for the OS's simplicity.
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Unread 21 Nov 2005, 18:16   #2
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

I do photography too. To be honest though, I'd have to find out about what its like in terms of how much better it is than windows for photography.

Any idea why its meant to be? If it was better, I would switch tbh, and maybe have a computer with xp on it cheap
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Unread 21 Nov 2005, 18:26   #3
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

If the thousands of dollars of software I have now were 100% compatible with it, I'd think about it.
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Unread 21 Nov 2005, 18:33   #4
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

I wouldn't bother switching since there's no real need (I can run Linux if I want Unix and XP if I want Windows). Plus I don't really like the Apple approach on a range of issues.

However, don't Apple make most of their money from hardware? Therefore I don't see why they'd want to release OSX generally even if they could. They'd also enter the nightmare world that is PC software support (i.e. thousands of different hardware combinations).
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Unread 21 Nov 2005, 19:31   #5
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

apple are one of few companies that make microsoft seem nice.
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Unread 21 Nov 2005, 20:28   #6
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
They'd also enter the nightmare world that is PC software support (i.e. thousands of different hardware combinations).
That's easily workable by providing online-only help through a searchable FAQ that never manages to fix any problems.


Also automated, keyword responsive troubleshooting general email is also a great solution, to you, not a solution for any customer issue of course.
[[PLEASE ENTER YOUR REPLY TO RECEIVE A CANNED NONUSELFUL RESPONSE BELOW THESE LINES]]
HI I AM TIRED OF YOU DIE PLEASE THANX



[[PLEASE ENTER YOUR REPLY TO RECEIVE A CANNED NONUSELFUL RESPONSE ABOVE THESE LINES]]

If they really want to seem sincere while providing insincere help they can open up a call center in India where someone will read stock answers to you and ask you if they fixed your problems, and if they didn't will tell you to return your product to the store. :0
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Unread 21 Nov 2005, 23:19   #7
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiddy
mac stuff.
To answer your question: Possibly. I'd definately dual boot though.

It will never happen though, because (as Dante says), Apple make most of their money from hardware sales.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 01:17   #8
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

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Originally Posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer
To answer your question: Possibly. I'd definately dual boot though.

It will never happen though, because (as Dante says), Apple make most of their money from hardware sales.

I fully agree with Dante, we've had this discussion before in the office. Apple's Intel based machines will be at the same retail as their PowerPC based range - their only selling point over a cheaper clone PC would be that their systems run OSX, thus they would lose money.

However, one school of thought would say that if they start losing money on sales due to the illegal running of the OS on a PC, then they would perhaps join as opposed to fight and simply release a legitimate stable version at around the same price as Windows, which would then be supported and upgradable.

Like I say though, I do agree with Dante when he states that. It's just interesting to see how many would switch to OSX if it was available on PC, or more generically, how many people would leave Windows if there were an alternative available with a significantly shorter learning curve than Linux.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 01:44   #9
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Apple will never release OSX for general use. The reasons for this are twofold:

1) Why spend countless millions of dollars securing it with the TPM chips and various tamper-detection technologies only to then release it seperate from the hardware anyway
2) Apple are not used to supporting the PC world. They are used to having all thier users on the same hardware, and supporting the innumerable combinations of PC hardware would be a logistical nightmare for them.

On top of this, you do realise that these developer builds of OSX are supposed to be cracked, right?
Apple are smart enough to realise they can never seal off every route round the protection on their OS by themselves, so they are "employing" crackers to do it for them. Every time a developer build is cracked, Apple can learn from it, and that's one (or more) less route(s) into the retail OS when it goes live with the Intel based Macs.

Unfortunately, many people are too naive to see this.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 02:55   #10
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiddy
I
Like I say though, I do agree with Dante when he states that. It's just interesting to see how many would switch to OSX if it was available on PC, or more generically, how many people would leave Windows if there were an alternative available with a significantly shorter learning curve than Linux.
the two of you (being consumate geeks) always assume that the individual user matters.

OS's of which windows is undoubtably the king works because companies own hundreds of machines and need them all to intergrate. corporations own millions and need the same

essentially the individual domestic user is just an economic oddity in comparison. linux exists and continues to exist. but it is still the 'corner shop in luton' compared to the 'tesco' that is microsoft/

individual computer savy people (geeks) do as they do. there are far too few of them to worry about.

(for instance apple's biggest break came with getting the contract from the bbc. if you take all of the pcs in britain (WARNING NUMBERS ARE MADE UP) 80% belong to a company/corporation, 20% belong to home users. of that 20% 1.5% are geeks who care about these things.)
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 10:01   #11
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
if you take all of the pcs in britain (WARNING NUMBERS ARE MADE UP) 80% belong to a company/corporation, 20% belong to home users. of that 20% 1.5% are geeks who care about these things.)
Absolutley. But one of the things that sustains Microsoft's corporate share (in terms of Office and Windows itself) is the fact individual home users know how to use their product. This is one of the reasons why Microsoft has been relatively lax about "piracy" of their Office product - the more home users who have it, the more corporate sales (indirectly). With Office 97 the registration code "0123456789" worked (or something like that) for goodness sake. This is also why many enteprrise products are available for free to home/individual users in some form (Oracle, MS SQL Server, etc)

In addition to this, the 1.5% of geeks also levy disproportionate weight since they are often the ones either advising friends or family in individual sales or are the IT personnel who have some input on procurement decisions. Individually I have never spent any money on applications or operating systems, yet at work I have ordered about £70k's worth of software.

Last edited by Dante Hicks; 22 Nov 2005 at 10:11.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 15:37   #12
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiddy
However, one school of thought would say that if they start losing money on sales due to the illegal running of the OS on a PC, then they would perhaps join as opposed to fight and simply release a legitimate stable version at around the same price as Windows, which would then be supported and upgradable.
Putting aside the real issues of why they would never do this that others before me have said, not going to happen.

If you think that RIAA are bad, Apple are worse. They will protect their assets in every way possible, if you've ever had any association with them as a partner you would be familier with their practices. Make no mistake about it Apple are pricks and Microsoft are saints by comparison.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 15:51   #13
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

I use Apple machines at school (mainly the G5). It's a nice OS but I prefer Windows tbh. despite the numerous problems, OS X also encounters an abundance of problems. With UNIX underneath, once you empy the trash can, that's it - it's gone (unless you've made a back-up). I often get "bla bla application has quit unexpectedly bla bla" - which is reminiscent of Windows apps not responding from time to time. Styling in OS X is limited to a certain extent and you don't need to shell out for a new license with every 'update' like with Apple. That's why, iirc., Windows charges a hell of a lot more on new OS releases since they don't make any money on their Service Packs.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 16:24   #14
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Getting off-track here, but Androme wtf?
The idea of the trashcan is to provide a temporary backup, in case 2 hours later you think "oh shit i needed that". You now want a backup to the backup - a trash-trashcan if you will?
The other thing is that, unless I'm somehow mistaken, once you empty the windows recycle bin the files are also gone short of using recovery software - which you can also use on OSX/Unix/Linux if you're that desperate.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 17:53   #15
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

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Originally Posted by meglamaniac
wtf?
You've been in a bit of a mood recently.

Anyway, sometimes you delete things by accident and sometimes other people think it's a funny idea to delete your files when you're briefly looking away. Sometimes I finish coursework, delete it as it's old work then find I need it again some time later. I understand how modern day hard-drives and the filing systems work so until the data is overwritten, my data's still there. I've been able to recover a lot of my lost work before.

You also don't need recovery software to get back deleted files - I remember using DOS last year to recover a file.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 18:28   #16
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

I have my on days and my off days.

You hang around with some odd people by the sounds of it - I still don't get what you were trying to say about files being recoverable outside of the recylce bin on windows and not on the mac. If you can show me how you can bring back files deleted in windows with DOS I'm prepared to admit ignorance, but having a fairly decent knowledge of how these things work I don't see how it's possible - unless you had a file recover tool that just happened to only run in DOS.

By the way, hard drives haven't changed lately - the data has always been left there when deleted (with FAT/NTFS anyway - there are secure filesystems that will make sure its really gone). It may just be that now harddrives are routinely much larger, more data is likely to be left without getting overwritten.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 18:43   #17
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

You can probably recover most files from OS X even if you've deleted them from the trashcan (unless you selected Secure Empty Trash). I have no idea how to do it though, you'd probably have to take it to a specalist company or something.

I've never had problems with my applications unexpectedly quitting in OS X - it's probably because they're school computers and god knows what kind of stuff has been messed around with.

Although I quite like Windows XP, having been a mac user for a long time now I'd obviously have to say I prefer OS X As others have said Apple would never allow OS X to run on any computer that isn't a mac, as they get most of their money through selling their (mostly overpriced) hardware.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 19:36   #18
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

meg: iirc. you delete an INFO file and this will recreate the allocation table iirc. and the files removed from the Recycle Bin will be returned
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 21:00   #19
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Ah I think what you're refering to is a proceedure to reset the recycle bin when it screws up. It is possible for it to sometimes go nuts and claim there's nothing in it even when there is (ie. the c:\recycler folder contains data). Deleting the info file causes it to rescan the contents of the recycler folder and "undelete" the files.

The difference here is that they were never really deleted, the recycle bin just lost track of them.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 21:12   #20
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

That's the one! My bad - sorry

Didn't there use to be an undelete command in Windows 95?
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 22:30   #21
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Yeah there was some sort of basic recover tool, never sure what happened to it which is a shame, as it wasn't a bad idea.
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Unread 22 Nov 2005, 23:08   #22
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Androme - you don't have to shell out for every update.

Forget thinking of it as purely OS 10. You had to pay for OS 8, 8.6 and 9. They're sticking with the 10 part because OSX has become integral to the the Apple ethos.

Essentially, if you want to be picky,
10 = 10
12 = 10.2 (Jaguar) (This went from 10.2.0 through to 10.2.8)
13 = 10.3 (Panther) (This went from 10.3.0 through to 10.3.9)
14 = 10.4 (Tiger) (Currently up to 10.4.3)

Yeah, you have to pay a small sum (£89) to go from 10.3.x to 10.4 but this is due to the host of new features that the system incorporates, Tiger has gizmos such as Spotlight, Dashboard and Automator, whereas Panther did not. These are essentiall your Win98 -> WinME -> WinXP releases. The point releases after that are all free like Service Packs are. The marketing and selling system is no different from Microsoft's, except for the significantly smaller price tag.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 06:25   #23
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiddy
The marketing and selling system is no different from Microsoft's, except for the significantly smaller price tag.
I'm pretty sure you can buy Windows for considerably less than the current iteration of OSX.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 09:03   #24
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
That's the one! My bad - sorry

Didn't there use to be an undelete command in Windows 95?
I think that was from DOS. I used undelete alot, as my Dad was forever using delete wildcards and then wondering where everything went (he still manages to do stupid stuff like this even now, such as deleting his outlook email accounts which I had a friend of mine carefully set up for him, when he has absolutely no need to go into his accounts and no need to delete anything)
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 11:53   #25
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
I think that was from DOS.
Yeah, it used to be in DOS in that iteration. From 98 onwards it disappeared afaik :/

Btw people, I don't know why people are so wooed by running Mac OS X on their PC when with PearPC it can be run within Windows providing you have the original Mac OS X installation CD(s) or .ISO's
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 12:01   #26
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
Yeah, it used to be in DOS in that iteration. From 98 onwards it disappeared afaik :/

Btw people, I don't know why people are so wooed by running Mac OS X on their PC when with PearPC it can be run within Windows providing you have the original Mac OS X installation CD(s) or .ISO's
See, I put that on a 2.7Ghz, 768Mb machine and it ran about as fast as Terminal Services would over a GSM modem.

PearPC isn't designed for that. It has limited support for hardware and is exceptionally slow. Coupled with there is onoly pre alpha Altivec support at best.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 12:52   #27
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azof
I'm pretty sure you can buy Windows for considerably less than the current iteration of OSX.
Erm...nope.

Windows XP Home Edition costs around £170-180 whereas Mac OS X Tiger costs around £70-80. Quite a difference there really.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 16:37   #28
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

its been said by some software companies making software for Windows Vista that its being built around a clone of the OSX core

since this company makes software around linux first then windows, the on1ly way there software wouldn't work 100% is if Vista was built around something entirely different and new, which they claimed was the OSX core
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 16:39   #29
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazypyro
its been said by some software companies making software for Windows Vista that its being built around a clone of the OSX core
I doubt this, but even it were to be true, it certainly would be a unique thing indeed if Microsoft copied something from Apple.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 19:01   #30
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obliterate
Erm...nope.

Windows XP Home Edition costs around £170-180
o rly?
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 19:08   #31
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

http://froogle.google.co.uk/froogle?...&hl=en&show=dd

So yes, it does.
Especially if you're an average joe who doesn't know that if you purchase it with some hardware like a £5 network card you qualify for the OEM version for substantially less £££

If you REALLY want to be scared, try this instead:
http://froogle.google.co.uk/froogle?...&hl=en&show=dd

Btw, I searched for Pro as Home is shit and also doesn't include half the stuff OSX does.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 19:25   #32
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
http://froogle.google.co.uk/froogle?...&hl=en&show=dd

So yes, it does.
Especially if you're an average joe who doesn't know that if you purchase it with some hardware like a £5 network card you qualify for the OEM version for substantially less £££

If you REALLY want to be scared, try this instead:
http://froogle.google.co.uk/froogle?...&hl=en&show=dd

Btw, I searched for Pro as Home is shit and also doesn't include half the stuff OSX does.
meh, I can get Windows for free anyway
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 19:42   #33
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
Alright then, so you found somewhere that sells it for £20 cheaper - it's still twice the price of OS X!
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 20:27   #34
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Re: OSX (10.4.3) cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obliterate
Alright then, so you found somewhere that sells it for £20 cheaper - it's still twice the price of OS X!
but if you don't already have a Mac you have to get one, which can be pretty pricey

I know windows is more expensive than OS X, but this is an issue i've never had to worry about and one i'll not need to worry about for another 3/4 years. Besides, we're getting a little off topic
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