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28 Feb 2008, 13:24
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#1
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I ♡ ☠
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 834
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Imagine
that you have middle-easten or affiliated heritage, that you like most people in the world believe the invasions into iraq and afghanistan were western self interest, that you see pictures like these (click to go to the wired article for more). how would you feel towards countries that have implicitly or explicitly supported these wars and camps? if someone told you about a political movement that wishes to fight such, would you join?
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28 Feb 2008, 13:27
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#2
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For Crowly <3
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 1,391
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Re: Imagine
I'd feel slightly stupid for clicking that link when at work.
__________________
[14:53:26] * Keiz`afk has joined #support
[14:53:36] <Keiz`afk> THE SMUDGE CHEERLEADING TEAM HAS ARRIVED
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28 Feb 2008, 13:55
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: Imagine
Don't go, we need posters.
Also, the idea of the civil war against the Fascists in Spain in the 1930s crossed my mind.
There's an interesting comparision possibly, if someone wishes to make it.
not me though, I'm too lazy atm.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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28 Feb 2008, 19:03
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#4
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Imagine
This isn't a leading thread at all. Nope, absolutely not. Not at all.
__________________
Finally free!
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29 Feb 2008, 00:27
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#5
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I ♡ ☠
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 834
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Re: Imagine
I'll make sure my points loop in future. I hear 606 is a good beat.
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29 Feb 2008, 00:49
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#6
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Imagine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
that you have middle-easten or affiliated heritage, that you like most people in the world believe the invasions into iraq and afghanistan were western self interest, that you see pictures like these (click to go to the wired article for more). how would you feel towards countries that have implicitly or explicitly supported these wars and camps? if someone told you about a political movement that wishes to fight such, would you join?
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Torturing prisioners goes against most liberal notions of civil behaviour. Places with politically active and quite vocal people, in those bastions of human rights and civil liberties such as in Belgium, the Netherlands and Switzerland and whatnot would have been, i imagine, similarly outraged by such material.
However, i dont recall hearing any of them taking up arms and trying to perpetuate the problem.
Vengeance is where an atrocity is met with in kind, were all notions of right and wrong blur, and thus loose all meaning.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
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29 Feb 2008, 01:34
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#7
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Imagine
1. What was I looking at?
2. Where is the authentication of the photo, whatever it was of?
3. What's your point?
War is bad?
Torture is bad?
Silly photography is bad?
Is Bo(r)ing Bo(r)ing trying to tell me that the torture was done by GI's sitting on the floor holding prisoners in their laps while they punched them while wearing blue gloves?
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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29 Feb 2008, 01:39
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: Imagine
Well I'm white and dont really care about what happens in other countries that are full of whiteys so I'd like to think that if I were some dumb religious brown butt I'd be equally apathetic about other brownies being bombed on the other side of the world even if we believed in the same god but idk.
its nice how you imply that all brown people ('of middle eastern heritage' - I assume you arent including Israelis in this?) should/do automatically care about their fellow race members above all else though. Kind of like how I wouldnt feel patronised at all if everyone I met in England immediately wondered what I thought about Scottish independence when they heard my accent. No racial stereotyping here, nope.
Last edited by Nodrog; 29 Feb 2008 at 01:55.
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29 Feb 2008, 02:32
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#9
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I ♡ ☠
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 834
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Re: Imagine
That's a fair point, Nodrog. I should have specified further. However, people affliate with those with similar cultures to their own. I wasn't claiming they should or should not, but what people (of any race and nationality) tend to do.
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29 Feb 2008, 15:52
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: Imagine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Torturing prisioners goes against most liberal notions of civil behaviour. Places with politically active and quite vocal people, in those bastions of human rights and civil liberties such as in Belgium, the Netherlands and Switzerland and whatnot would have been, i imagine, similarly outraged by such material.
However, i dont recall hearing any of them taking up arms and trying to perpetuate the problem.
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The difference is, that Western Europe isn't seen to be a collection of dictators and murderers being supported by a lone superpower for it's own political advantage. Such an event would be identified as an isolated incident, as opposed to a systematic attack on the area which has been raging for decades.
Add to this the more impoverished conditions in which the people live (for the most part) in the Middle East, as well as the assult on liberty which is going on in many countries in the world with the excuse of the 'war on terror' where those in your (religious) community are being labelled guilty before proven innocent and you might have a similar reaction.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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29 Feb 2008, 16:00
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: Imagine
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
1. What was I looking at?
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You know.
Quote:
2. Where is the authentication of the photo, whatever it was of?
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You know.
Quote:
3. What's your point?
War is bad?
Torture is bad?
Silly photography is bad?
Is Bo(r)ing Bo(r)ing trying to tell me that the torture was done by GI's sitting on the floor holding prisoners in their laps while they punched them while wearing blue gloves?
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You can mock and live in denial, but it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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1 Mar 2008, 00:51
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#12
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Bi-Winning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nfi
Posts: 290
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Re: Imagine
Obviously if that is what you were brought up with then i am sure you would be willing to join anything that would support your beliefs , me being on the western side of this whole charade still see's it as wrong. if anybody wanted one person out of power in a country it is easily done -- invading a country and taking control shows that it has some form of Ulterior Motive, not wanting to point fingers but we all know who is responsible, but the pictures prove nothing apart from how idiotic and power mad people can be.
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14 Mar 2008, 07:11
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
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Re: Imagine
Replace that soldier with ur stock standard middle eastern extremist and he wouldnt be punching someone in the head, hed be cutting it off
America may/not have invaded Iraq for oil.....
Iran and Syria provide arms to hezbollah to assist in racial genocide.....
Whats worse?
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14 Mar 2008, 09:48
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#14
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Ent|lunch
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 539
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Re: Imagine
lets not try to justify their mistakes :P
__________________
[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results."
"Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile"
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14 Mar 2008, 10:33
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#15
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Motherfracker
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,985
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Re: Imagine
There were never any Fascists in Spain
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14 Mar 2008, 11:22
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#16
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Imagine
Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]
Replace that soldier with ur stock standard middle eastern extremist and he wouldnt be punching someone in the head, hed be cutting it off
America may/not have invaded Iraq for oil.....
Iran and Syria provide arms to hezbollah to assist in racial genocide.....
Whats worse?
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"They started it"? I didn't think we were still in grade school, but obviously I was mistaken.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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14 Mar 2008, 15:36
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: Imagine
Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]
Iran and Syria provide arms to hezbollah to assist in racial genocide.....
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Hello...?
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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17 Mar 2008, 14:03
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#18
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Bona Fide Jesus Freak
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Word of the Lord
Posts: 765
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Re: Imagine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
that you have middle-easten or affiliated heritage, that you like most people in the world believe the invasions into iraq and afghanistan were western self interest, that you see pictures like these (click to go to the wired article for more). how would you feel towards countries that have implicitly or explicitly supported these wars and camps? if someone told you about a political movement that wishes to fight such, would you join?
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This is really hard to say one way or the other. As an American I have grown up in America and have values similar to other Americans. As far as politics go most of us would rather leave it than take so as an American I would say "Why Bother" when this political movement came around asking for my support. After all I know the futility of fighting the big money war machine and nothing I do will make a difference in the long run. The rich will still get their way and wars will still be started because it's up to the poor to supply the labor needed to keep the weathly people with the money they need to continue.
Now if I had not grown up in America or Western Europe I might actually believe that I could make a difference and join such a political movement. I might even think this was a holy war to defend ourselves from American Imperialism. I might hold onto the belief that if we blow ourselves up enough and kill a few of them it will make a difference because they are not disposable like we are. They will be outraged with every attack and convince their government to stop.
Truth is that the people that control the USA do not care about the majority of people and feel that we are all disposable. I imagine their thoughts would be like: " So what if a few thousand soldiers lose their lives. So what if a few places get bombed and people die. No big loss because there are millions of people to replacement them. Let those stupid Jihadist do what ever they want because they will never muster enough strength to stop the US war machine. As long as the money keeps on flowing nothing else matters.
__________________
Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.
CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
The Illuminati - [NoS] - R14-13
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17 Mar 2008, 15:30
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#19
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Imagine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
So what if a few thousand soldiers lose their lives. So what if a few places get bombed and people die. No big loss because there are millions of people to replacement them. Let those stupid Vietcong do what ever they want because they will never muster enough strength to stop the US war machine. As long as the money keeps on flowing nothing else matters.
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__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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20 Mar 2008, 04:21
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#20
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Bona Fide Jesus Freak
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Word of the Lord
Posts: 765
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Re: Imagine
So true. The USA no longer wins wars. We just fight them as long as possible before the next politician decides it's time to cool off for a bit.
__________________
Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.
CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
The Illuminati - [NoS] - R14-13
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20 Mar 2008, 09:48
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#21
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Ent|lunch
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 539
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Re: Imagine
Because the president would rather stand firm to his beliefs, insane or not as opposed to showing the weakness of backing down from a fight. Because lets face it, in the end its all about re-election and/or political status
__________________
[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results."
"Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile"
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20 Mar 2008, 13:53
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: Imagine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
So true. The USA no longer wins wars. We just bomb defenceless countries into the dirt.
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Fixed.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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