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Unread 3 Sep 2007, 19:53   #151
Appocomaster
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
In Birmingham like many other major cities, we have quite a lot of Catholic Schools.

You either went to a King Edwards VI or a Cardinal Wiseman any other school and you were ****ed. The King Edwards were the cream of the crop, the Catholic schools whilst they took in kids from very rough estates such as Great Barr, Kingstanding, Chelmsley Wood areas what you found was they managed to get better grades than say another high school next door.

I don't think it was down to faith, like Tomkat said it was probably down to knowing the difference between right and wrong and ultimately respect. Oh you didn't need to be irish catholic to go to these schools either, but it helped.

The reason why King Edward VIs were so good in Birmingham was/is because of respect. From day one you are put in your place, no shit, no niceness. They bring you up on excellence. If you are shit at maths, then you are moved down a set. You are no longer in set 2, you are in set 3, heck you could drop down to set 4 which is really shit and then people will laugh at you.

If you are crap at P.E. you can't be in the A group, you have to be in the B group who are so shit they play the girls at rounders.

I say bring back beating. Sod the Human Rights, kids aren't human until they hit 18.
qft, tbh. I went to a similar school when I was younger, and you did learn. I'm all for streaming too.
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 14:07   #152
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

I would say discipline and respect are hugely important yet I find it troubling how most often teachers (mainly in catholic schools and the like as Pig said) have to drill this into students instead of relying on the students' reasoning and social norms. Therefore half the problem isn't even educational - unless you use education in lieu of social learning - it's social. But perhaps a few years of explaining to the kids why it's important to learn and thus why they should also undertake self-discipline and respect teachers and those imparting such information would really help. Not that it's easy, explaining to kids that they'll really need something when they're in a point of their life that seems so far away and almost unbelievable, but should someone find a way of doing so I think it would help the educational system and society as a whole immensely.

Between the dichotomy of beat them until they shut up and learn and motivate and aide them in a non-standardised way to produce better abstract skills and hence a better understanding of higher subjects such as maths, english, science etc I prefer the latter, yet as it requires a wholescale change to the education system and a deeper understanding of the many ways we can learn and improve I can't see things changing for a while, not until it becomes ever more obvious how comprehensives fail to produce students on par with other countries, but as the ruling class go to privately-funded schools (Eton etc) perhaps it won't ever happen.
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 23:02   #153
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

To create and to advance ideally. Or for money and employment if that's too hard to explain.

I don't agree with all your opinions yet I respect your right to impart them, especially if you were explicitly teaching me something. Although I would prefer it if students were taught to question authority but only in a way that doesn't involve academically irrational disruption of a class.

Higher than the abstract skills needed like spatial/verbal reasoning for example.
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Unread 5 Sep 2007, 10:35   #154
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

Farther down the the road. Seems to be a human predilection.

Welcome to this thread.

Only when you agree with whatever authority and when the authority states its intention as, say, teaching you phonetics, maths, whatever I personally don't have many great qualms with it.

Bigger?

This is fun,

isn't it.
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Unread 5 Sep 2007, 19:05   #155
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
The reason why King Edward VIs were so good in Birmingham was/is because of respect. From day one you are put in your place, no shit, no niceness. They bring you up on excellence. If you are shit at maths, then you are moved down a set. You are no longer in set 2, you are in set 3, heck you could drop down to set 4 which is really shit and then people will laugh at you.
And here we see an example of how the humanitarians of the next generation won't be produced.
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Unread 6 Sep 2007, 10:19   #156
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well its your willingness to accept to whatever authority offers you random objectives which is the real worry here.
I don't find maths worrying particularly.

I'm quoting myself now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
I would prefer it if students were taught to question authority but only in a way that doesn't involve academically irrational disruption of a class.
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Unread 6 Sep 2007, 12:20   #157
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Exclamation Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Or bored by a teacher trying to force them to learn things they don't want to learn?
If the teacher taught them things that they wanted to learn then he would swiftly find himself on the Sex Offenders Register. Although I suppose most of us here would broadly applaud that.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 6 Sep 2007 at 14:19.
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Unread 10 Sep 2007, 17:49   #158
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

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Originally Posted by horn
yes. it was because we want our kids to get employed in the future.
Is that really the bset reason for a mass-education system though?

Quote:
understanding the universe, living forever, true AI, limitless energy and visiting other planets to see how communist colonys fell apart.... that sort of thing. while hopeful achievements like these or achievements already made by the likes of scientific or mathematical knowledge/advances are great, it doesn't mean they have opened up a platonic realm whereby they are objectively better than P.E or latin. but that's ok. because aslong as you hold these achievements as the ends you want to achieve then you don't need to say that science is "higher" than football; just that it's your best bet of achiving them.
Could these things not be further advanced with a system which encourages learning for its own sake?
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Unread 10 Sep 2007, 19:36   #159
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

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Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well that's fine but if that is the case we should probably teach them things that might be useful in the workplace and we should be more honest with them about working actually means.
This is why I quite enjoy teaching ICT. If a kid ever asks "but sir, why are we doing this? how will this help me in life?!" I can often answer truthfully, and give decent real life examples where they'd need to use it.

For the last week with my year 10s (1-2 hours of lessons), we've been doing "How to use a Search Engine effectively"*. While earning marks towards their GCSEs, too! (no exam, just coursework, which is ongoing throughout the year).



*while you may think this is obvious to you, there are lots of little tricks that novice users won't know about. For example; using - to remove that item from searches, or using "inverted commas" to give exact phrases.
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Unread 11 Sep 2007, 15:43   #160
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

Upon reflection, programming/scripting should be taught in some form (probably indirectly) so people learn to type.
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Unread 11 Sep 2007, 15:56   #161
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

I actually started writing that post ages before seeing your post, but then got sidetracked and forgot to hit submit. So it's only a coincdental burn.
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Unread 11 Sep 2007, 20:22   #162
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Re: What Should be Taught in Schools?

Coincidental burns are the best kind of burns!

Incidentally; is it cause or effect that the kids who buckle down and do all their work independently are the ones who succeed at school, and thus in the workplace (usually)?
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