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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 11:06   #1
^MDK^MAN^
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Fake spend cheating

PA team

Its time u either remove the posibility of fake spend cheating or just start banning the planets using it. As it clearly is a abusing a known game flaw.

As it is now, Top planets wich shouldent be able to attack more than Top 50 using fakespend cheat and is able to hit top top300 planets. and thus the hole point with XP, Score is messed up.

(Fake spend cheat = few sec after tick u spend all your res, and when PA is updated u cancel it and that way u lowered your value/score with half in some cases)

ex:
Tick 1188: 39 down 38 4,516,091
Tick 1189: 1 up 38 9,788,421

Suggestions of ways to stop it for next round: (this round to kinda late as its a known gameflaw last 5 rounds)

1. Not being able to spend res after tick until PA is updated (just like launching ships)
2. 10% res cost when u cancel same tick.
3. Ban planets....

Last edited by ^MDK^MAN^; 3 Jun 2006 at 14:45.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 11:09   #2
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Re: Fake spend cheating

i agree the way they abuse it to attack smaller planets is enough reason for deletion
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 11:29   #3
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Its not really cheating though as its been know for months, a thread has even been posted on PD about it and people have been doing it for several rounds. I agree that it should be removed but closing people this round is stupid imo as its something which admins have agreed can be used and abused.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 11:33   #4
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Its not really cheating though as its been know for months, a thread has even been posted on PD about it and people have been doing it for several rounds. I agree that it should be removed but closing people this round is stupid imo as its something which admins have agreed can be used and abused.
ya got no intention to get anyone closed this round with my post. But hope PA team can remove the posibility for future rounds.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 11:52   #5
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Re: Fake spend cheating

It is not cheating when it doesn't break a rule. I don't see why you want to close the planets using it as it's clearly not THEIR fault they have the possibility to do so.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 11:57   #6
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Re: Fake spend cheating

its a feature in the game to everyone who use it, to rest of the playfield its plain cheating

and ofc our dear admins just stand and look at the grass growing cos they are to chicken to actually do something about it

so as pa are runned by noobs nowaday what can you expect for actions?

non ofc
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:00   #7
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Re: Fake spend cheating

robban, why in the flying ****ed goose can you never make sense in just ONE of the posts you make? Just ONE, is that much to ask?
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:03   #8
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Re: Fake spend cheating

I got no problems about the fake spending tbh.

Its possible for everyone. And also, it requires alot of activity to actually be able to use it.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:07   #9
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
robban, why in the flying ****ed goose can you never make sense in just ONE of the posts you make? Just ONE, is that much to ask?
what exactly dont you get m8?

that admins are noobs?
that using the feature is cheating to the majority of the player?
that you only post pro cheating then it suits you?

so help me out here, its you who thinks its ok to cheat in pa
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:19   #10
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
what exactly dont you get m8?

that admins are noobs?
that using the feature is cheating to the majority of the player?
that you only post pro cheating then it suits you?

so help me out here, its you who thinks its ok to cheat in pa
Excuse me, but what set of rules are you looking at anyway? It sure as hell isn't the Planetarion ones. If you knew me, you'd know how much I'd like to have cheaters banned from the game (multis, account sharers, farmers, etc).

How can it possible be cheating when, as you say, it's a feature? Everyone knows or should know about the feature. The game mechanics allows it to be done and so does the rules. How can it suit me though? I don't even play anymore. I used it last round, I'm not going to deny that.

Anyway, stop making your own rules and just follow the ones that's been set by admins.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:25   #11
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Excuse me, but what set of rules are you looking at anyway? It sure as hell isn't the Planetarion ones. If you knew me, you'd know how much I'd like to have cheaters banned from the game (multis, account sharers, farmers, etc).

How can it possible be cheating when, as you say, it's a feature? Everyone knows or should know about the feature. The game mechanics allows it to be done and so does the rules. How can it suit me though? I don't even play anymore. I used it last round, I'm not going to deny that.

Anyway, stop making your own rules and just follow the ones that's been set by admins.
Its not a game feature, its a game flaw.

it has been on PA teams "todo list" for 5 last rounds or something. they just havent got their thumb out of their ass to sort it.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:33   #12
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
Its not a game feature, its a game flaw.

it has been on PA teams "todo list" for 5 last rounds or something. they just havent got their thumb out of their ass to sort it.
They've not made a rule specifically telling people not to use it, have they? Thus it's a feature in the game mechanics until told elsewise. If it was a flaw, they would have done something with it. It doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage as everyone knows about it and can use it as they want. It's up to each player if they want to dedicate every xx:00:00 to hide their resources or keep their value low though.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:37   #13
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
It is not cheating when it doesn't break a rule. I don't see why you want to close the planets using it as it's clearly not THEIR fault they have the possibility to do so.
That's a bit flawed logic though. It is of course not their fault that they have the possibility to do it. But if it was a bug, and PA team stated that it would be abuse to use it this way (This is an "if" scenario, as they are well aware of it, I guess they would have said something by now), it would still not be their fault that they could do it. But that doesn't make it right, does it?

My opinion is that this is entirely okay to use until PA team does something about it. But it kind of makes the bash limit look silly. I suppose it is on the todo list somewhere, though.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:44   #14
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
My opinion is that this is entirely okay to use until PA team does something about it.
That's what I said: It's not cheating when it doesn't break a rule. Could always have added "or when it doesn't go against PA Team's words", but that kinda explains itself.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:47   #15
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
That's what I said: It's not cheating when it doesn't break a rule. Could always have added "or when it doesn't go against PA Team's words", but that kinda explains itself.
yes you are "right", its not "cheating" as PA team seems to alow it.

Now lets hope PA team changes this for NEXT round wich is my hole point.

Would like a response from PAteam now
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:58   #16
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Re: Fake spend cheating

well tecnically its actually breaking rule 18.1.c as you can attack targets not in your target range. and the full return of the fund issue is just silly as you can do it over and over again
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 12:59   #17
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
yes you are "right", its not "cheating" as PA team seems to alow it.
Then edit your initial post and remove cheating. Let's define cheating for you: Cheating can be to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 13:00   #18
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
well tecnically its actually breaking rule 18.1.c as you can attack targets not in your target range. and the full return of the fund issue is just silly as you can do it over and over again
When his value is lowered, he is within target range.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 13:11   #19
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
It doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage as everyone knows about it and can use it as they want. It's up to each player if they want to dedicate every xx:00:00 to hide their resources or keep their value low though.
It is unfair for those who start late or picked the race which can't hold on to roids etc. Now let's assume that you get much roids early on and start to save them since no one seems to be too eager to attack you. you get 100mil res and everybody is afraid to attack you. You then use the res and can attack small players to take their little amount of roids.

Then there's this little/medium planet who can't hold on to roids for being in a sucky gal. He tries hard to hold on to roids, but isn't in a so good alliance so that they could def him properly. Now he sees people spending their massive res stacks to take his little amount of roids. Unfortunately he can't do this same tactic properly for the said reasons.

So is this fair in your opinion?
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 13:47   #20
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotatrix
It is unfair for those who start late or picked the race which can't hold on to roids etc. Now let's assume that you get much roids early on and start to save them since no one seems to be too eager to attack you. you get 100mil res and everybody is afraid to attack you. You then use the res and can attack small players to take their little amount of roids.

Then there's this little/medium planet who can't hold on to roids for being in a sucky gal. He tries hard to hold on to roids, but isn't in a so good alliance so that they could def him properly. Now he sees people spending their massive res stacks to take his little amount of roids. Unfortunately he can't do this same tactic properly for the said reasons.

So is this fair in your opinion?
You just can't compare this with people who start late or people in a shit alliance/galaxy. Late starters and people in shit alliances/galaxies will ALWAYS be behind, no matter what feature we're talking about.

I never said I liked or disliked this feature, but anyone can use it as they wish at the moment, so in that way it's fairer than a fairy.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:07   #21
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Then edit your initial post and remove cheating. Let's define cheating for you: Cheating can be to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others.

EERRRRMMMM the planet in question IS creating a unfair advantage by spending his res to lower his score to hit a to small planet he normaly can't hit.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:11   #22
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by idimmu
what is the difference between an 8 planet with 4mil score in ships and 4 mil score in res fake spending their res to attack a 2 mil planet

and a 4 mil planet with just 4mil score in ships attackign a 2 mil planet?

nothing! so stop whining.
Thats not the question here the question is a 10 mill planet spending down to 4 mill hitting a 2 mill planet.

TBH I thought he had more balls that that.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:11   #23
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
EERRRRMMMM the planet in question IS creating a unfair advantage by spending his res to lower his score to hit a to small planet he normaly can't hit.
No, it's not.

idimmu made a very good point btw. The force of the 8mill planet will be suited for attacking small planets, just as suited as the 4mill planet is when he attacks 2mill planets. Resources != force.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:13   #24
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
No, it's not.

idimmu made a very good point btw. The force of his fleet will be suited for attacking small planets. Resources != force.
well it IS an unfair advantage Nadar and you know it.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:13   #25
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Re: Fake spend cheating

yes it isnadar seen a planet of 9 mil do it to attack a 2mil planet in my gal so it is thats just crap
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:14   #26
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by wielklem
yes it isnadar seen a planet of 9 mil do it to attack a 2mil planet in my gal so it is thats just crap
yep the hole point with having a bashlimit is gone when people abuse this gameflaw.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:16   #27
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
well it IS an unfair advantage Nadar and you know it.
Tell me why it is then. You said it yourself, his fleet isn't stronger than a 4mill planet even though his score is 8mill with resources added. Everyone can do it.

I don't say it should be like this, but it sure as hell is as equal for you as it is for me and everyone else.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:17   #28
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
yep the hole point with having a bashlimit is gone when people abuse this gameflaw.
The bashlimit is to protect from overwhelming massive hordes of ships that outnumbers/outpowers the smaller planer. But without actually spending the resources on ships, it's not overwhelming.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:18   #29
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Re: Fake spend cheating

no it's not cos a attacker with a 4 mill planet in ships/roids you can retal.
The planet with 4 mill ships/roids and 6 mill res will build his way out of it.

Someone with a 10 mill planet should attack planets in his range not lower himself to be able to go for easy roids (in most cases) but like i said before, I know him well and would never think he would lower himself to this, sadly i was wrong.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:22   #30
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
The bashlimit is to protect from overwhelming massive hordes of ships that outnumbers/outpowers the smaller planer. But without actually spending the resources on ships, it's not overwhelming.
They are out of BASHLIMIT and should be safe. GET IT???

Really dont see your point at all, wy defend people abusing a gameflaw???
If they keep doing it this round i cba, but hopefully they sort so people cant keep abusing it like this next round.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:25   #31
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
no it's not cos a attacker with a 4 mill planet in ships/roids you can retal.
The planet with 4 mill ships/roids and 6 mill res will build his way out of it.
oh wait what.. huh what wait.. retals? How many will actually retal their attacker? Not many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Someone with a 10 mill planet should attack planets in his range not lower himself to be able to go for easy roids (in most cases) but like i said before, I know him well and would never think he would lower himself to this, sadly i was wrong.
It's not about "lowering" yourself to a given level. It's about playing the game in the smartest way within the rules. Just like the XPwh0ring of Ascendancy last round. It was the smartest way of playing the game to get the best position possible.

I don't care much if it hurts anyones feelings if they get roided. Last time I played this game, I remember it was about winning by using the game mechanics within the rules.

But sure, remove the resource-feature and next round let's all whine about cover-ops and how bad they are!!!!1
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:26   #32
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Got no problems with it. Don't like it when ppl does it, but you can always pay attention to changes in value. I also like to have it as an option to cancel built ships if you start a certain production by mistake. Think it would be better to let res for production showing up after next tick, and let everyone that cancel a production loose something like 25% of the res, no matter when they cancel the production after it's been initiated could be better.

And show maybe show ppl's value from last tick in parentheses, so ppl can figure out if they have used res or not.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:28   #33
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
They are out of BASHLIMIT and should be safe. GET IT???

Really dont see your point at all, wy defend people abusing a gameflaw???
If they keep doing it this round i cba, but hopefully they sort so people cant keep abusing it like this next round.
Last time I checked, this was a forum, so keep the crap IRC language out of it.

Bash limit is what, 40%? You spend your resources and you go below 40%, then you're inside the bash limit. Let's quote you: GET IT???

I don't defend anyone, and my points, well, they're just summarizing the game mechanics and game rules.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:32   #34
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilatus
Got no problems with it. Don't like it when ppl does it, but you can always pay attention to changes in value. I also like to have it as an option to cancel built ships if you make a mistake. Think a change a limit of stockpiling resources would be better. Think a limit in stockpiling would hard-limit on something like ca 10 mil of each res.

The amount of res on a hard limit is only a suggestions. Think atleast it couldn't be based on either value, size or score, cause that would make things that would make it uneven dephending on your race. That's why i would like a hard-limit counting for anyone, if there should be a limit on res saved. If there should be a limit on res, i think res used on production should also be accounted for.
I'd say it's better to have a percentage limit. Like: You can't spend resources worth 10% of your value.

Or (very little thought trough): Resources gives no value at all, only when converted to ships.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:34   #35
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
oh wait what.. huh what wait.. retals? How many will actually retal their attacker? Not many.
I do and many others do and yes for your info it still makes attackers pull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
It's not about "lowering" yourself to a given level. It's about playing the game in the smartest way within the rules. Just like the XPwh0ring of Ascendancy last round. It was the smartest way of playing the game to get the best position possible.
I agree but it SHOULD be played to get the best possition possible but does that meran use all possible ways even the once not intended to be used ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I don't care much if it hurts anyones feelings if they get roided. Last time I played this game, I remember it was about winning by using the game mechanics within the rules.
I don't really care if you are not worried about hurting ppl's feelings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
But sure, remove the resource-feature and next round let's all whine about cover-ops and how bad they are!!!!1
Has nothing to do with whining, it's a observation and we don't like what we see, last time i checked i was in a free country that allowed me to state my opinion.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:42   #36
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I'd say it's better to have a percentage limit. Like: You can't spend resources worth 10% of your value.

Or (very little thought trough): Resources gives no value at all, only when converted to ships.
damn your really lol, and res spent to ships gives 50% higher value

Do u even play PA?
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:43   #37
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Re: Fake spend cheating

1st one would be holding eveyone back. 2nd one wouldn't help either, since you would see res missing from planetscan but still not able to tell if someone's only hiding on production.

Maybe it would just be better to make every started production make a person loose a certain percentage of the resources buildt, and just give them a question about confirming their production or not, before the production is initiated. Seems like someone is going to loose on it no matter what, but think it could help a bit if ppl had to confirm their producion and have a page that shows what the ships target before they make their decision could be better.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:44   #38
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I do and many others do and yes for your info it still makes attackers pull
My observation is opposite, that people tends to sit at home with their fleets or just send them away to nowhere. ohwell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I agree but it SHOULD be played to get the best possition possible but does that meran use all possible ways even the once not intended to be used ?
XPwh0ring weren't intended to be used like it was last round. But if it's possible and within the rules, I see no problem with it. It'd be stupid not to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I don't really care if you are not worried about hurting ppl's feelings
/me cries:crymeariver:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Has nothing to do with whining, it's a observation and we don't like what we see, last time i checked i was in a free country that allowed me to state my opinion.
I never said you weren't. But the last few rounds there seems to be òne issue with the game people whine about en masse (not necessarily you Ace). Instead of coming with a constructive suggestion on how to fix it, they simply whine it out loud and worst of all they badmouth the people taking advantage of the feature (calling them cheaters etc, lo MDK MAN).
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:45   #39
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
damn your really lol, and res spent to ships gives 50% higher value

Do u even play PA?
Atleast he used to play pa, and he were pretty good at it. Don't agree with his suggestions, but atleast he got some suggestions.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:45   #40
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
damn your really lol, and res spent to ships gives 50% higher value

Do u even play PA?
I don't understand the first sentence, please write it in english for the next try.

I quit PA after last round. So what though?
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:47   #41
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilatus
Don't agree with his suggestions, but atleast he got some suggestions.
My suggestions (where I quoted you) isn't thought through, so they're probably bad yes. But they were just examples of what could be done.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:47   #42
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilatus
1st one would be holding eveyone back. 2nd one wouldn't help either, since you would see res missing from planetscan but still not able to tell if someone's only hiding on production.

Maybe it would just be better to make every started production make a person loose a certain percentage of the resources buildt, and just give them a question about confirming their production or not, before the production is initiated. Seems like someone is going to loose on it no matter what, but think it could help a bit if ppl had to confirm their producion and have a page that shows what the ships target before they make their decision could be better.
1. Is actually the idea that PAteam where going to implement, but lazy as they been they havent done it. about 5 rounds ago....

2. was a typo, should ofc been when u cancel, today its 100% back when u cancel same tick as u spent.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:49   #43
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I don't understand the first sentence, please write it in english for the next try.

I quit PA after last round. So what though?
If u quit, then stay away please as u got no clue.

Value = (Fleet-cost / 100) + (Resources / 150) + (Constructions * 1500) + (Roids * 200)

There u got the value formula....
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:50   #44
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
2. was a typo, should ofc been when u cancel, today its 100% back when u cancel same tick as u spent.
It'd be bad for those who built wrong ships by mistake though. Could be better to let it be free to cancel from xx:10 to xx:50 and in between xx:50-xx:10 there would be a tax? Maybe?
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:53   #45
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
If u quit, then stay away please as u got no clue.

Value = (Fleet-cost / 100) + (Resources / 150) + (Constructions * 1500) + (Roids * 200)

There u got the value formula....
Why should I stay away? Especially as it's only gone one round since I quit? The game hasn't changed that much.

Look what I wrote in the example of a suggestion, that it wasn't thought through at all, it was just an example. On that note: A formula can be changed and it has been changed before.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 14:55   #46
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Re: Fake spend cheating

In response to ^MDK^MAN^(to lazy/drunk to quote when i've started writing):
That's the problem. Ppl can hold res on production for awhile, and you don't have any idea if their ships is in production or not, unless you wanna get scanners to burn alot of res on scanning the targets. Would you like to be forced to use www.sandmans.co.uk every tick just to check if someone used their res on production or not. Could be possible for expereinced players, but we have to pay attention to new players aswell. Even hard enought for experienced players to stay online every tick of the game.

Not everyone got time enough to calc on how much res 1 planet get each tick, then calc on how much he's able to use on res to drop down to a certain value. Try that when your target got like 100 mil of each res, and you can pretty easily get bashed by a little mistake. Not all of us are genious at math. We play this game because we love it, and not because were all genious ppl.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 15:17   #47
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Re: Fake spend cheating

well the thing dont need odd codes to be stopped.... just fix the damn ticker

and yes its flaw in game that some ppl without balls use on a regular basis

as you prolly have noticed you never get a decent reply on the issue from an admin like ever cos they support then a m8 cheats or use a bug
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 15:21   #48
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Surely if you just put a The Universe is Being Updated thing it'd sort it. Don't understand what the problem is.
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 15:48   #49
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar

I never said you weren't. But the last few rounds there seems to be òne issue with the game people whine about en masse (not necessarily you Ace). Instead of coming with a constructive suggestion on how to fix it, they simply whine it out loud and worst of all they badmouth the people taking advantage of the feature (calling them cheaters etc, lo MDK MAN).
Only reason i speak my mind in this thread is, I know who they talk about and I had the feeling i knew him and thought he would not go so low as this.

And yes I call it low since I can understand the reasons for spending res before you land to lower score to get more XP but spending it to hit targets you normally can't hit I see as low.

And for your comment on cov opping;

I allways disliked cov opping I see it as a chicken attack, no way of knowing who did it if it doesn't fail, hardly a way of defending against it and the person doesn't have to spend travel time to and from a planet.

But as long as it's part of the game I will have to live with it
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Unread 3 Jun 2006, 15:51   #50
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Re: Fake spend cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
well the thing dont need odd codes to be stopped.... just fix the damn ticker

and yes its flaw in game that some ppl without balls use on a regular basis

as you prolly have noticed you never get a decent reply on the issue from an admin like ever cos they support then a m8 cheats or use a bug
Because they're smarter than you (yes, you're not very clever are you) doesn't mean they have no balls.

And I'm sure the admins are corrupt or partial, robban1
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