[Discuss] Exiles

[Prawn]

Tried searching for this and couldn't see any previous mention of it...

I've heard a few stories of new players and poorly scoring players being repeatedly exiled from one gal to another, sometimes within a very short period. This hasn't in fact happen to me - I have only changed co-ords once in the round. It could, however, be very annoying for the people being subject to it I'd imagine... so how about we impose some sort of a minimum time a planet must spend in a galaxy before the GC/ministers are able to exile them?

Another issue with reference to the time I was exiled:

My galaxy basically exiled me because on one day, I got a silly number of incs. That's pretty crap when you think about it. Way to foster community spirit etc. So perhaps the vote for exiling a planet should be something like a simple majority of every gal member. This would cut down on that kind of crap as well making it more difficult for GC/ministers in single-alliance heavy gals exiling ppl because they don't like another alliance or whatever.

If something like this already exists just tell me and I'll get my coat...

[Neferti]

I believe the system used to work a bit like that (majority vote), many years ago. Later, it was the case that exiles required unanimous vote among the Ministers and GC. This was removed recently (one or two rounds ago), for some reason to do with galaxies being flooded with crap inactive players (only reason I can think of right now)...

[barney]

Originally Posted by Prawn

Tried searching for this and couldn't see any previous mention of it...

I've heard a few stories of new players and poorly scoring players being repeatedly exiled from one gal to another, sometimes within a very short period. This hasn't in fact happen to me - I have only changed co-ords once in the round. It could, however, be very annoying for the people being subject to it I'd imagine... so how about we impose some sort of a minimum time a planet must spend in a galaxy before the GC/ministers are able to exile them?

Another issue with reference to the time I was exiled:

My galaxy basically exiled me because on one day, I got a silly number of incs. That's pretty crap when you think about it. Way to foster community spirit etc. So perhaps the vote for exiling a planet should be something like a simple majority of every gal member. This would cut down on that kind of crap as well making it more difficult for GC/ministers in single-alliance heavy gals exiling ppl because they don't like another alliance or whatever.

If something like this already exists just tell me and I'll get my coat...

bad idea imo, i would prefer not to get stuck in a galaxy with crap inactive players, and the more inactive players the harder it would get to exile planets. its great when you get newer players in who are interested in irc and learning to play the game, and im sure most ppl are willing to help them learn and grow. but there are a number of people who for whatever reason do not use irc and do not want to learn the game. It should be the right of any galaxy to exile these people, as they will contribute little.

works perfectly as it is imo, simply having all ministers have to vote im sure would make no difference to the eventual outcome, would only make it take longer, which benefits nobody.

in essence it depends on how much faith you put in your ministers, and if you put little faith in the vote with your feet.

[Pilatus]

I like the exiling the way it's now. Atleast now, you have the chance to get rid of planets thats not helpful for the gal. The way it's now, you know if you wan't to stay in a top20 gal, you'll have to avoid messing up. It's a bit strict, but fair.

The only thing i thing is messing things up a bit, is that new players might have a problem enjoying the game, because they're getting exiled to crappy galaxys.

Maybe things could be a little bit better, if each gal had 3 -4slots that could be opened for newbies only. Like if slot 5, 10 and 15 were only opened for new planets. This way, if you exiled planet 5, you would get another newbie. So each gal would be able to get a new planet in slot 5, after tick 500, and a second one in slot 10 after tick 1000, and a 3rd one in slot 15 after tick 1500. And if those slots were only available for new planets, then gals would have to consider if the new planets would be good compared to other new planets.
Ofcause this wouldn't help anyone else except for the new planets. But this would atleast give new planets a chance, and all other planets would still have to consider being helpful towards their gal to avoid being exiled.

[Prawn]

The main issue I have isn't specifically the manner in which people are exiled, more the fact that noobs can, at this point, be passed around from gal to gal until they end up in some crappy galaxy with a bunch of other noobs, where nobody will learn anything from one another.

If my plan has already been tried and didn't work, fair enough. Pilatus' idea does sound like a good one though.

:edit: I still think my point about imposing a time limit before exiling someone after they arrive is a good idea though

[Makhil]

you could have a 72 tick delay but maybe the planet should post a message in the gal forum to obtain it (or any other proof it is active).

[snra]

Should not be possible to exile planets under protection.
More likely than not those players get exiled anyway after protection, but atleast they have 72h time to convince the galaxy otherwise.

[barney]

Originally Posted by snra

Should not be possible to exile planets under protection.
More likely than not those players get exiled anyway after protection, but atleast they have 72h time to convince the galaxy otherwise.

presumably once they reinsert themselves into the universe they are loghged into their account at that point ??? (ive never been exiled so im not sure).

whilst they are active this is their chance to get into contact with their galaxy, and prove they are worth having around, it is not difficult to access irc from comunit, if they do not do so i dont se a problem with them being exiled away to some n00b galaxy as this is where they belong!!! if they are not willing to come to irc and learn about the game they are of no use to most galaxies, and if they are once they exile into a gal they have this oppertunity.

[god113]

If you make it a longer period of time, it won't change anything. You will just have slightly longer periods in each gal before you're exiled, infact, it'll take you even longer to settle in a gal.

It's okay having someone new to the game in your galaxy at the beginning, as before ticks start you can get them set up with a good alliance and stuff, and get them ready to rock. But after a certain point in the round it just isn't in the galaxies interest to spend that time doing that if the planet is so far behind on score, and they can just exile and get an already big planet.

To be honest, I can't think of any way to solve that. Sure people love to help players who arn't experienced, but not if it handicaps them. And it does otherwise, as they could be replaced by a much bigger planet. I don't think there is a clear cut way to improve it. As some planets arn't active enough to be helped anyway. Of course with how active that is depending on the size of the galaxy.

If you let people exile, they won't handicap their gal to get a new player into the game.
If you don't let people exile, they are stuck with some planets that are completely inactive.

I guess if there was some kind of way of differentiating between active and inactive planets it would be okay, as you could not allow people to exile actives, and then force them to train them up. But as I said before, activity is relative anyway, different gals want different activity. Maybe you could judge how much time they're online compared to the rest of the gal? Like if they're online 70%+ of gal average online time, then they're immune to exile?

(I don't know if this is any help or not to anyone, and I don't know how well it can be applied to the current gal system as i'm not playing this round. Just bouncing aroud some ideas.)

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Pilatus

Maybe things could be a little bit better, if each gal had 3 -4slots that could be opened for newbies only. Like if slot 5, 10 and 15 were only opened for new planets. This way, if you exiled planet 5, you would get another newbie. So each gal would be able to get a new planet in slot 5, after tick 500, and a second one in slot 10 after tick 1000, and a 3rd one in slot 15 after tick 1500. And if those slots were only available for new planets, then gals would have to consider if the new planets would be good compared to other new planets.
Ofcause this wouldn't help anyone else except for the new planets. But this would atleast give new planets a chance, and all other planets would still have to consider being helpful towards their gal to avoid being exiled.

I like something like this idea. I know people like to try keeping big active (friendly) planets and exile the small inactive hostile ones, but I think it'd be nice to have something that forced people to at least help some smaller planets. Of course, there might be the odd alliance signing up free accounts and trying to find bigger galaxies (obviously there aren't already ) but hopefully it'll encourage some help for smaller planets.

Originally Posted by Prawn

:edit: I still think my point about imposing a time limit before exiling someone after they arrive is a good idea though

As god113 said, that'll just delay the process, but to be fair some people might not want to be stuck in an inactive gal if they get there - I know some smaller galaxies actually exile the bigger planets that land and get 10 fleets of incoming in 5 ticks.
I'd prefer something like:

Originally Posted by snra

Should not be possible to exile planets under protection.
More likely than not those players get exiled anyway after protection, but atleast they have 72h time to convince the galaxy otherwise.

(although it does rather contridict my earlier comment ) together with Pilatus's idea.

Originally Posted by barney

presumably once they reinsert themselves into the universe they are loghged into their account at that point ??? (ive never been exiled so im not sure).

Yes, although generally they log in @ c2xx, log back out and log in again somewhere else (I'm not quite sure why this is).

Originally Posted by barney

whilst they are active this is their chance to get into contact with their galaxy, and prove they are worth having around, it is not difficult to access irc from comunit, if they do not do so i dont se a problem with them being exiled away to some n00b galaxy as this is where they belong!!! if they are not willing to come to irc and learn about the game they are of no use to most galaxies, and if they are once they exile into a gal they have this oppertunity.

Firstly, some people in the last month of the round keep exiling in the hope that a big player will come along. Not much a small/new planet will say is going to make a difference. Also, a lot of people start playing at school / work and can't use comunit because it's blocked by the majority of these networks (for security reasons.....) . If people are only playing semi seriously then, then instead of growing and becoming more into Planetarion, they're exiled because they don't use IRC. While the majority of alliances use IRC, especially the top 10-20, there are some smaller alliances that don't actually function via IRC in the majority way *shock horror*. CGI IRC was discussed somewhere on this thread, as that solves the problem, but unfortunately it creates a large load on the server it's on, and so isn't viable (unless someone wants to volunteer a server on a decent connection ).

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by god113

To be honest, I can't think of any way to solve that. Sure people* love to help players who arn't experienced, but not if it handicaps them. And it does otherwise, as they could be replaced by a much bigger planet. I don't think there is a clear cut way to improve it. As some planets arn't active enough to be helped anyway. Of course with how active that is depending on the size of the galaxy.

*most

Originally Posted by god113

If you let people exile, they won't handicap their gal to get a new player into the game.
If you don't let people exile, they are stuck with some planets that are completely inactive.

I guess if there was some kind of way of differentiating between active and inactive planets it would be okay, as you could not allow people to exile actives, and then force them to train them up. But as I said before, activity is relative anyway, different gals want different activity. Maybe you could judge how much time they're online compared to the rest of the gal? Like if they're online 70%+ of gal average online time, then they're immune to exile?

(I don't know if this is any help or not to anyone, and I don't know how well it can be applied to the current gal system as i'm not playing this round. Just bouncing aroud some ideas.)

this round (apparently) the rather large galaxy exile code is dependant, among other things, on activity. I'm not exactly sure how, but it seems to be dependant on roids, value, activity and anything else whoever was making it could think of (apparently the code is quite a few lines long, and is definately being replaced for next round). I don't think making an immunity level for exile would work, especially if they *wanted* to be exiled from an inactive galaxy, but changing exile costs depending on activity level might be interesting (although, thinking about it, it'd mean big planets have to donate lots of resources to get out of galaxies)

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by god113

It's okay having someone new to the game in your galaxy at the beginning, as before ticks start you can get them set up with a good alliance and stuff, and get them ready to rock. But after a certain point in the round it just isn't in the galaxies interest to spend that time doing that if the planet is so far behind on score, and they can just exile and get an already big planet.

[Anecdotal experience]While studying for exams this year I decided to get a planet in PA (what else am I going to waste my time on?). This was about tick 450 I think. As I've never been an excessively lucky guy I ended up in one of the five or six worst galaxies in the universe. I was advised to attempt to get exiled by my gc, saving the one time self-exile wonder of wonders. Unfortunately I received no response so I used my self-exile. I refresh my screen to see that I've ended up in the number one galaxy. Oh great! But wait, apparently I'm too low score and they've scanned me and I'm a freebie planet (I told them it probably just looked like that because phil had upgraded my account for me and I never actually paid for it, isn't being a moderator great folks? but they either didn't believe me or didn't care). So off I'm exiled again this time into a galaxy even worse than my first one. :((((( thinks your friendly mod. Done over again by moronic score-counting faggots it seems. Not exactly a first time but it's still not great fun even for someone who's been around this game since christ was a carpenter. Inactives becomes I (as yoda would so "eloquently" put it). A couple of hundred ticks go by before I'm bothered logging back in. I go through all the various beginning-of-game shit (which is really really dull by the way) and finally get to the point I can attack someone. I've gone for zik because the marvellous human being that is jester has told me they're the best this round. My attack lands and I gain both ships and roids. It's like r2 all over again!!! So I'm enjoying it, and I'm on pretty frequently after that. Scorewise I'm now ahead of about half the planets in the gal that exiled me. Haha faggots.

Summary of [anecdotal experience], there are a lot of pretty shit people playing this game nowadays. The game is good, perhaps better than I can remember it being. Don't **** it up guys :(

PS I didn't bother getting an alliance. My reasoning can be stated thusly "if you put 20 odd supposed good players together and they're that shit I really don't want to know how shit it gets with 80 of them together".

PPS I realise I'm not exactly the typical new player but as chuck berry would have you know "'c'est la vie", say the old folks, "it goes to show you never can tell"'.

[noah02]

Originally Posted by snra

Should not be possible to exile planets under protection.
More likely than not those players get exiled anyway after protection, but atleast they have 72h time to convince the galaxy otherwise.

bit hard to persaude them otherwise when you cant attack or defend while in protection.

I think thats the main problem tbh the fact you get a new player for 72 hours he cant do shit with the galaxy which makes him/her a waste of space.
Harsh I know but I think the 72hrs protection needs to be amended the further into the round we go or the good old option of choosing to get rid of it.

[god113]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

*most

this round (apparently) the rather large galaxy exile code is dependant, among other things, on activity. I'm not exactly sure how, but it seems to be dependant on roids, value, activity and anything else whoever was making it could think of (apparently the code is quite a few lines long, and is definately being replaced for next round). I don't think making an immunity level for exile would work, especially if they *wanted* to be exiled from an inactive galaxy, but changing exile costs depending on activity level might be interesting (although, thinking about it, it'd mean big planets have to donate lots of resources to get out of galaxies)

Yes, on second thoughts I agree that an immunity level wouldn't work. I must admit that I was thinking from the view of being the big galaxy looking to get rid of the inactives, and not from the view of being the unlucky person stuck in a crap galaxy.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

[Anecdotal experience] While studying for exams this year ..... Haha faggots.

Summary of [anecdotal experience], there are a lot of pretty shit people playing this game nowadays. The game is good, perhaps better than I can remember it being. Don't **** it up guys

PS I didn't bother getting an alliance. My reasoning can be stated thusly "if you put 20 odd supposed good players together and they're that shit I really don't want to know how shit it gets with 80 of them together".

PPS I realise I'm not exactly the typical new player but as chuck berry would have you know "'c'est la vie", say the old folks, "it goes to show you never can tell"'.

Yay. You showed them.

A very fair point. Again, my point of view was fixed on being the big gal, and the exiles were the new players who needed help. I would say that there arn't many people in the situation like yours, but then again a lot of the exiles arn't new players. Whatever the exiled planets are, farms or whatever.

[Neferti]

JBG, when I was in a top 10 galaxy I argued against the exiling of people just cos they weren't huge. I got called a moronic noob for that I thought they were gonna exile me for being annoying, but they didnt.

[Cannon_Fodder]

I'm in a t30 gal, we only exile those who are inactive (even those with near mil scores) and kept several new people who just started, those new people have more roids than me now.. (they didnt learn about stopping initing when you get to 300)

[god113]

Originally Posted by sniborp

I'm in a t30 gal, we only exile those who are inactive (even those with near mil scores) and kept several new people who just started, those new people have more roids than me now.. (they didnt learn about stopping initing when you get to 300)

It's a shame not every galaxy is like yours then.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by sniborp

I'm in a t30 gal, we only exile those who are inactive (even those with near mil scores) and kept several new people who just started, those new people have more roids than me now.. (they didnt learn about stopping initing when you get to 300)

oh they will
I just keep roiding, I'm a pretty cath

[Cannon_Fodder]

Can I rape you then?

[Appocomaster]

i've already been raped. I lost quite a few roids recently. I'm below 1k again

[Kal]

next round will see very different exile formulae that this round had, so hopefulyl a lot of problems will be solved.