Planetarion Forums

Rinoa · 20 Apr 2005, 21:46

As i write this i am highest valued cath in game, and yet as i hope to get more xp i look up rest of top 50 and see nothin but ziks ahead of me. Which aint gd as i always hated attacking ziks when stealing was previously featured in game. The caths usual method of loss free roiding goes out window when trying to aattack ziks so wondered if anyone can suggest some winning tips to attack / flak them or winning ship/race combos that work best as i feel i got a bit of an uphill struggle ahead of me

Banned · 20 Apr 2005, 23:31

Team up with a Xan that has a lot of Sents.

Tietäjä · 21 Apr 2005, 00:00

Depends a lot on the zik. Some have more bombers than an average xan, and they are flakked by heavy zikonian frigates.

MAdnRisKy · 21 Apr 2005, 01:05

team up with a xan that has a lot of tbt. and build a shit load of roaches. (and hope he doesn't have clippers)

if he does just add in your vipers anyway. a xan cat fr cr fleet, should be able to handle anything tbh :/

NitinA · 21 Apr 2005, 02:35

Get a lot of caths to team up and EMP the zik ships, then roid.

-NitinA

at0mic.c0w · 21 Apr 2005, 08:51

Preferences -> change race to Xan
...too late you say ?

Tietäjä · 21 Apr 2005, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

team up with a xan that has a lot of tbt. and build a shit load of roaches. (and hope he doesn't have clippers)

if he does just add in your vipers anyway. a xan cat fr cr fleet, should be able to handle anything tbh :/

Yes, and you'll end up being very prone to certain unwanted events, like culdassa arrowheads, drakes, and thieves. Unless you build a load of scorpions. Then again, if you build a "shit load" of everything, I guess you can quite much take out whatever you want to. I can take out anything in the universe if I just build up a shitload of each cath ship.

MAdnRisKy · 21 Apr 2005, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Yes, and you'll end up being very prone to certain unwanted events, like culdassa arrowheads, drakes, and thieves. Unless you build a load of scorpions. Then again, if you build a "shit load" of everything, I guess you can quite much take out whatever you want to. I can take out anything in the universe if I just build up a shitload of each cath ship.

wtf you know cats without scorps?

and how are you vunerable to drakes or thieves? you've never heard about roaches?

get with the progam :/

and go look at that fleet combo again btw, and then come back with a serious answer. Cat not having a lot of CR? geeeeeeesh. and xan should havea lot of fr imo, as it's the better fleet, normally I'd add lancers, but why bother scorps are better.....

Alki · 21 Apr 2005, 22:11

dont attack them, simple as

Pilatus · 22 Apr 2005, 02:38

I only sends Hornets and let them steal them. That seems to keep my value low, and gives me lots of roids and xp

Tietäjä · 22 Apr 2005, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

wtf you know cats without scorps?

and how are you vunerable to drakes or thieves? you've never heard about roaches?

get with the progam :/

Do you realize, how much bigger most ziks are than caths? They tend to be frigate and corvette heavy. By nature, they have a load of flak (cutlass, buccaneer, thief). You've got a lot to do just on that.

If we go on this track, we can just say that a fleet with a sufficient number of a variety of ships can take out any planet.

Bolters take out corsairs = cool.
Scorpions take out cutlasses, privateers, and possible arrowheads = cool.
Roaches take out thieves, buccs, and possible drakes, and bombers = cool.
Fireblades take care of clippers = cool.
Something attends to the 1-tick dragon threat = cool.

I am merely attempting to elaborate the amount of "clicks" you need here, and the amount of ships you need to find a large amount of. And that failing any of the 2th, 3th, or 4th factors easily leads to mass destruction of somewhat fragile frigates.

Personally I find a fighter (inc. a lot of vsharracks and daggers) fleet way more difficult to handle than a combined cruiser+xan.

MAdnRisKy · 22 Apr 2005, 23:08

look the point was that in two classes you eliminate all types of ships and very early and efficiently.

if both the cat and the xan send in fr and cr it nails most ships if not all of them. that fleet IS very good.

if you're REALLy worried about the co, then use lancers, but if the catr has his head screwed on you shouldn't need to.

yes it's slightly speciallised, yes the top 50 allows neh, suggests and quite possibly demands, that you adapt to compensate and this is one very viable way to do that.

ps the original thread was about how to attack as a cat, not as a xan so a "build a shit load of vsh and wtfpwn them" isn't a sensible answer :/

E-Choke · 23 Apr 2005, 16:39

You know any Xan with Lancers ? I DON'T

Cannon_Fodder · 23 Apr 2005, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by E-Choke

You know any Xan without Lancers ? I DON'T

Fixed.

Tietäjä · 23 Apr 2005, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

l
ps the original thread was about how to attack as a cat, not as a xan so a "build a shit load of vsh and wtfpwn them" isn't a sensible answer :/

He said he is cath, but asked for winning class/race combos. Pure xan is one of the best. Also, teaming up with a zik with thieves and bolters is a good idea.

Chika · 25 Apr 2005, 00:23

Rinoa, to answer your question, I have seen Ziks steal mostly Fi and FR, build your taras WAy up, and your anti FR Cr up, and you should be ok. I am much smaller, But with this fleet, I can roid Ziks that are Alot bigger than me....
Tarantula 440 Roach 220
Scorpion 50 Hornet 160

This way, Taras scare other zik help, the more you have, the less worth it, it is for them to let you land to cap ships. If you are killing about 3k corsair at this point, you are doing excellent. DO not worry about xans sending Fi as flak, you chop right through those ships, and they just basically sacraficed a chunk of thier fleet. And I have seen very small amounts of FR anti Cr, which are Xan ships that ziks have capped. But they tend to have between 250-750 of those, which you can freeze easily. At this point a decent cath should have about 1600 Cr at LEAST. With the bulk being Taras. Maybe like
800 taras
500 roach
100 scorp
200 Hornet.

With the few hornets you won't be able to roid 2 decent sized ziks at the same time, but take it from me, you don't need 2 attacks a night to be top 100, let alone not even to be top 10. Just 1.

Ultimate Newbie · 25 Apr 2005, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chika

At this point a decent cath should have about 1600 Cr at LEAST.

Your definition of 'decent' seems to differ significantly with the universe. As as DC, i find calls in excess of 800 CR unusual - which is half your figure. Except on Benneh, who seems to get about 10 waves a day (which is beyond all comprehension

).

Where did you get that figure from?

Chika · 25 Apr 2005, 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

Your definition of 'decent' seems to differ significantly with the universe. As as DC, i find calls in excess of 800 CR unusual - which is half your figure. Except on Benneh, who seems to get about 10 waves a day (which is beyond all comprehension

).

Where did you get that figure from?

You know how my round has been a bit. No ally since tick 240. I have not touched 300 roids in about 2 and a half weeks, and I have 860 or so, and I have lost ALOT of ships. I Mine on average, 98 roids, I have half of that.
My standards tend to be higher than the rest of the Universe, as is anyone who has finished in the top 10. thats why the universe is behind them.

Squishy · 25 Apr 2005, 10:40

My whole fleet this round from day 1 has been geared for hitting ziks as i knew they would be the dominant force.

Tho being a zik makes it a lot easier to do this

Rinoa · 25 Apr 2005, 11:13

Yeah im around 1.3k cr now and have only just started the tara production needed as i had more roached than taras previously as i hit xans and caths. But now i will try tara option and also xan cath teamup.

Squishy · 25 Apr 2005, 13:24

im sititng about 10k corsairs now and not had a cath come near them.

Cannon_Fodder · 25 Apr 2005, 18:20

got many marauders?
if not just wait till a cath who built cr, and a terran with de come along.... works quite well

demiGOD · 8 May 2005, 06:12

When I see our attack scans and study a Zik player with an infinite collection of every type of ship in the universe (which is what most Ziks are this time of the round), I have come to realize how almost untouchable Ziks are. I did though, like Chika suggested, using up the expense of Cath CRs, lost a little bit but full-capped - got retaliated by the same planet, lost a lot of ships, got his roids back -- from a Zik that is half my size???

And I was one of those who claimed that Ziks are going to struggle this round.

I stand corrected.

Ultimate Newbie · 8 May 2005, 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by demiGOD

I stand corrected.

I thought that the ziks in the top alliance(s)/block would do extrodinarily well and dominate the top 50, and most ofther ziks would be pretty bad and fill the lower ranks. Tbh, i am surprised at how well the "average" zik is doing - and thus;

I also stand corrected. :\

Cannon_Fodder · 8 May 2005, 07:34

Try hitting ziks with roaches and beetles, they cover each other. Trouble is if they have a lot of stolen vsh, phoenix, dragons....

Tietäjä · 8 May 2005, 10:43

The real trouble is when ziks get their hands on beetle/bolter/sentinel. Because anti-Fi is the weak spot at the moment, and will be for the rest of the round. Xan is the best race to challenge ziks, mainly because they can flood cutlasses with their prime fleet, while several other single-class attack fleets can be reacted to by ships that aren't targetted by those fleets (while (not in zik-zik mirrors though) corvette fleets suffer from buccs targetting them without being hit back, frigate fleets suffer from thieves and buccs respectively, cruiser fleets take pain from corsairs, de fleets can't hit back marauders, and bs fleets can't touch BS).

Squishy · 9 May 2005, 10:47

Their are two ways to hit ziks effectivly.

Xan FI fleet. Build loads of vsh and just pile it in eta 7 is hard to stop and if you have neough vsh thiers no trouble.

Cath Cr/Zik Fr fleet. This works extremly well. I aint going into the mechanics of it cos i dont want to many incoming but i have used it rather effectivly with my CR heavy cath friend.

ComradeRob · 9 May 2005, 11:37

Some Ziks never built many buccs (I only have 500 myself). These planets are probably still viable targets for Cath CO fleets.

On that note, time to order another 500 buccs

Tietäjä · 9 May 2005, 11:53

Well, 500 buccs steal 2500 beetles. That is, you go attacking with default losses of 2,2-2,4k CO depending on your pods numbers. No, that's not good. Few caths have 2,2-2,4k corvettes to load off.

Cannon_Fodder · 9 May 2005, 11:58

Heh, i just lost 2k on my attack :/

MAdnRisKy · 9 May 2005, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy

Their are two ways to hit ziks effectivly.

Xan FI fleet. Build loads of vsh and just pile it in eta 7 is hard to stop and if you have neough vsh thiers no trouble.

Cath Cr/Zik Fr fleet. This works extremly well. I aint going into the mechanics of it cos i dont want to many incoming but i have used it rather effectivly with my CR heavy cath friend.

I alos find that provided you have enough scorps, xan cat fr cr works very well too

Tietäjä · 9 May 2005, 20:10

Yes, mad, but we are looking for "realistic" scenarios, not 1k scorps bulking through 7,5k cutlasses and miscellanelous corvette flak.

Cannon_Fodder · 9 May 2005, 20:29

I dont know why you would want xan fr, cath cr against a zik. Talking about realistic scenarios, how many roaches does it need to emp the average zik? A lot.

Gumbie · 10 May 2005, 08:33

Until Chika pointed tarantulas out, I was wondering what you guys were thinking.
Ships that target cr:
Dragon
Scarab
Bomber
Corsair

Of these, the zik will probably have a decent chunk of bombers and corsairs, and is unlikely to have stolen a lot of dragons (you can avoid the few that have), or many scarabs (which only EMP anyway, vs hornet armour.)

Cath CR targets:
Fighter (kill ship)
Frigate (EMP)
Corvette (EMP)

Now the tarantula has an attack efficiency of 58. This beats the following ship armour efficiencies:
Harpy
Spider
Vsh, Pulsar, Sentinel
Assasin, Corsair.

The roach has an attack efficiency of 41 (much less good) but it still beat the bomber, and is similar to zik frigates in attack->armour efficiencies, and it fires before them all.
Corsairs are not an issue if you look at the stats, unless you've been burning your ships the round thus far in an attempt to xp whore. And if you did, your own low value is your fault. Frigates are more of an issue, but prudent calcing should mean you can find the zik who has weaker frigates (yes, they are around, as the zik will have spent resources on more than thieves buccs and ironclads, just not much), and press the advantage that you've only been buying 3 ship types (tara, roach, hornet) to his multiple def ships (corsair, cutlass, cutter, clipper, bucc, thief, pirate). It just means you can't hit a target twice your value.

Tietäjä · 10 May 2005, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniborp

I dont know why you would want xan fr, cath cr against a zik. Talking about realistic scenarios, how many roaches does it need to emp the average zik? A lot.

Which is why I (unless my memory is doing tricks) never suggested it.

Grumbie.

Tarantula has 18 damage per cost.

Which stats are you reading?

Gumbie · 10 May 2005, 09:50

Ah buggery, I got the columns for attack and def mixed up. OK, cath are screwed :P

MrPubes · 10 May 2005, 10:01

I tend to say only Xan Fi Fleets get through at the really big Ziks anymore.
Anyone made other experiences yet?
You have to face a lot of alliance def if you attack anyways, so cr/bs is out. They are just too slow. Fr...well, i wouldn't attack a Zik with Fr. ;-)