[CLOSED]Combat

[Mit]

A few little questions regarding the future of PA.

Please add comments here if you wish.

[mist]

i like the way that combat nowadays seems to use more of the ship classes, meaning that most of the ships get used rather than just a couple. however, all this disturbance factor seems a little confusing, and i'd quite like a roid cap formula as well :P

-mist

[Killerbij]

I dont fully understand this option: Old style 'classes' but with the new 'fire at all' . There currently is no fire at all is there (no t3=all or something like that) Anyways:

Things I like in current version
-What I currently like is the disappearance of ship-based initiative as it discourages bashing and gives outnumbered defenders or attackers a chance to fire anyhow.
-I like the limiting of 1 target per shiptype (allthough I wouldnt mind 2 or 3) I do hate the t3= all though as it just encourages to produce one type and send masses of these ships just to kill enough.
-The ability for all ships to capture roids thus enabling more diverse fleet per race
-The priorities/missions idea

Things I miss that existed
-Racial abilities like cloak, steal and emp

Things that should be added or modified that never were:
-The ability to decide what ships get what priorities (using strikegroups within a fleet) (see here )
-New priorities like damage reduction for initiative gain, or damage gain for initiative reduction
-Extra bashing penalties (ship loss, score loss, damage reduction, higher eta) besides reduced roidcap

[Stifler]

voted for new style as would prefer not the t3=all targeting back, but would like tp see the emp/ cloak/ steal come back in.

If there had been:


- New style with old race characteristics, would have voted for that

[furball]

I definatly prefer the old style, without a shadow of a doubt. Planetarion is a strategic war game - and you need real ship stats for strategy. At the moment, every race have a couple of ships to build and that's it - what a waste! At least with the old ships there was variety in how you played, at least 2 ways per race!

Of course, T3=ALL isn't a good thing, but I'd still rather have initiative back.

[Scoot951]

I voted for new, but I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more complexity added back in (like return of the corv class and/or a t2 for each ship).

[gzambo]

Originally Posted by Stifler

voted for new style as would prefer not the t3=all targeting back, but would like tp see the emp/ cloak/ steal come back in.

If there had been:


- New style with old race characteristics, would have voted for that

[Tomkat]

Combat is really crap now. No decent breports, and if you cover someone for +20%, then the hostiles won't get roids.

Having a gamble (ooh, am I paying 2k per roid, or 5k per roid, and am I willing to pay that much) is much better. Simply NOT getting roids if you're overcovered is stupid.

GET RID OF DISRUPTION BEFORE TALKING ABOUT SHIPCLASSES.

[Maddix]

Not sure how anyone can justify this round's ships/combat over the previous rounds. Its extremely boring, easy to defend and hard to get roids succesfully & cheaply.

Oh apart from the escort whores ofc, they still do fine

[Razorback]

Only 1 targetclass is good for haveing a big variety of ships within each race. Every ship is usefull more or less and you will see everyone haveing a few of every shiptype he can produce, while 3 targetting will lead again to the typical 2-3 ships per race combination and more stats ppl will complain about.

I agree with tomkat that the disruption needs to be overworked since its too easy to cover a target atm.

[gzambo]

Originally Posted by Maddix

Not sure how anyone can justify this round's ships/combat over the previous rounds. Its extremely boring, easy to defend and hard to get roids succesfully & cheaply.

Oh apart from the escort whores ofc, they still do fine

aside from those with escorts all u gotta do is cover 25% each attacking class of ship and they dont get roids
how hard is that

[ScottishRebel]

The old style system was flawed as hell. I got sick and seeing my fleets wiped out by people who were 6 times my size sending 4k pegs at me. This system is not perfect you never will get soemthing that everyone agrees on but its fairer on the smaller planets and thats why people don't like it cos they have lost their ability to bash the crap outta them

[Wandows]

i voted old style..... but instead of 3 targets i rather have 2 and definatly no target=all for any ship... its just makes things "to easy" if you for example look at the old sentinel... you build masses of that, a bunch of vsharracks to bakc them up and you're done really..... thats quite boring and no fun.

[edit]

also.. this way their should be more ship classes again (corvette back and destroyer aswell?). to make it impossible somehow to cover all shipsclasses with only 1 of your own classes. There should atleast be some variaty in shipclasses that "must" be used for each race/player.

[/edit]

[Doorsdown]

/me misses the emp abilitty of the cathaar

[ScottishRebel]

I miss stealing other peoples ships and that was the most evil part of the Combat system. Having all races destroy one another is okay but if you are going to do that you may as well have only 1 race. Wasn't the whole idea of have diff races was for diff combat styles and not just the way and type of enemy ship you shoot the hell outta

[Hurragutten]

the only thing I'm missing is the stealing ships of the zik. Everything else is really good

[MrLobster]

you would need initiative for anything like EMP to work, because EMP would be useless if everything fired at once, it would not stop anything....

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Killerbij

-What I currently like is the disappearance of ship-based initiative as it discourages bashing and gives outnumbered defenders or attackers a chance to fire anyhow.

-New priorities like damage reduction for initiative gain, or damage gain for initiative reduction

humpf, i would have thought that these two desires were contradictorary and mutally exclusive.

though that is just me

Originally Posted by Stifler

voted for new style as would prefer not the t3=all targeting back, but would like tp see the emp/ cloak/ steal come back in.

If there had been:

- New style with old race characteristics, would have voted for that

again, those two options are mutually exclusive - the Cathaar's EMP units depend upon their good initiative to function. There is buggar all point in stunning a ship that has already fired. So if you eliminate the cathaar as a race, or make them a Terran wannabe, then the new and old can be mixed in that way. As a devout Cathaar (efficiency is cool ) i find not being bale to use EMP abhorrent (hence lack of fun this round, heh). afaik, there is no way to have EMP without initiative, short of making EMP kill things (in which case its not really EMP and/or its a really effective killer)...

Edit: apologies, i've just read MrLobster's post. he effectively said the same thing :\

Originally Posted by ScottishRebel

The old style system was flawed as hell. I got sick and seeing my fleets wiped out by people who were 6 times my size sending 4k pegs at me. This system is not perfect you never will get soemthing that everyone agrees on but its fairer on the smaller planets and thats why people don't like it cos they have lost their ability to bash the crap outta them

You shouldnt have gone Xan then
more seriously, you wouldnt have had your fleet killed (as often at least) if you actually ran your fleet. short of a really mallicious enemy, normally running a fleet when you cant get defence is the best thing to do. Though i do acgree, no system will be perfect and no system will definately not please everyone, but i do believe that the system(s) that provide the most enjoyment for all should be implemented.

by the way, i'm not a fan of the new system... heh.


On a side note, i wonder whether a ship with a T1 of All would be useful/fun/viable. It would be very effective against (R9) Caths & Terrans who would be using BA/CR/DE, and next to useless against Zik/Xans as their FI/CO/FR are not as efficiently killed/stunned. Though otherwise, i'm not a fan of 'All' targeting, and tbh i'd prefer the 6 classes of ships with (a maximum of) 2 tagrets, cos then at least three units would be required to cover all classes (if desired), as opposed ot the current two.

Or one, in the case of hte sentinels :\

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by ScottishRebel

The old style system was flawed as hell. I got sick and seeing my fleets wiped out by people who were 6 times my size sending 4k pegs at me. This system is not perfect you never will get soemthing that everyone agrees on but its fairer on the smaller planets and thats why people don't like it cos they have lost their ability to bash the crap outta them

^^ I suggested in my post on suggestions here a more r4 style, where there's initiative but you have at least a few similar ships before you specalise on emp, cloaked, steal, or normal. Thinking on it more, basically what I meant was races have different advantages / disadvantages, and ship stuff is completely different and is decided during game depending on researches, not on a pregame decision.

Originally Posted by Wandows

i voted old style..... but instead of 3 targets i rather have 2 and definatly no target=all for any ship... its just makes things "to easy" if you for example look at the old sentinel... you build masses of that, a bunch of vsharracks to bakc them up and you're done really..... thats quite boring and no fun.

[edit]

also.. this way their should be more ship classes again (corvette back and destroyer aswell?). to make it impossible somehow to cover all shipsclasses with only 1 of your own classes. There should atleast be some variaty in shipclasses that "must" be used for each race/player.

[/edit]

I agree again, I prefer 2 targets, more ship classes, and less ability to form some "pod fleet" (although this does mean it might be harder for newer players to find nice roiding combos short of pods + flak, when pods are "enabled" on the admin options obv!).

[Chika]

old style is better, persisting if we have the eta difference for different ship classes. new style sucks. It brought stong lamenicity (made it up) out of a lot of old players. Stick with the old. More of a challenge.

[Pilatus]

The thing i missed the most this round were initative. Having to calc on what to send based on what the opponent had and would have the next tick is what i missed the most. Otherwise i did like the fact that you had to worry only about 1 tick and that you could get your ships back quicker were good, but i still think that 3 ticks with possible combat and the chance of loosing 1 type of ships made things a bit more interesting then this round.

So even though i were 1 of the players that enjoyed this round, i still like to get back the ships with 2 or 3 targets, and 3 ticks for attack. N00bs catch up pretty quick if they wan't to anyway so i don't think there's no need for 1 target for each ship-type, and i still think the biggest problems for n00bs is being without an alliance.

And ffs bring back the emp ships. Attacking someone, and getting roids without they're loosing a ship is something i miss, and i miss being scared of Black Widows

[LordBrem]

I would like something alone the lines of ********** - A primary target, a secondary, against which the ships are less effective (deal 2/3 damage or so), and a tertiary (in which they deal even less, perhaps 1/3).

[mist]

the problem with multiple targets, particularly "all" type targets is that it reduces the diversity of ships you need to use - thus eroding tactical choice

-mist

[Gerbie]

Bring back a bit of the old style combat and I might even come back to waste my time at this game.

[DrNick152]

I like the idea of restricted targeting. However to have every ship restricted to one target class is a bit much imho.

Personally I think it should be as is with one differnce:

The battleships should be able to attack every type of ship. The reason for this is that a battleship is supposed to be a mighty ship that strikes terror into its enemies, and thus should be able to shoot just about everything.

Thats MHO

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by LordBrem

I would like something alone the lines of ********** - A primary target, a secondary, against which the ships are less effective (deal 2/3 damage or so), and a tertiary (in which they deal even less, perhaps 1/3).

This is a good idea. Players would still use other vessels, as they have 3/3 damage. And it would knock out the fact that some ships are useless in certain battles. However if a smaller vessel's power 3/3 is less/equals to a larger vessel's 2/3 or ever 1/3, I'd go for the larger one, unless my resourses are too limited.