For the neutrals

[xtothez]

I'm bored. So here's a quick look at the universe stats for you lot based on the major alliances (based on Elysium intel and current universe stats, not 100% accurate, but should be close enough).

Top 10:
Dragons: 4 (1 closed)
Eclipse: 0
Elysium: 1
FAnG: 4 (2 closed)
ToT: 0
Vision: 0

Top 25:
Dragons: 6
Eclipse: 3
Elysium: 3
FAnG: 6
ToT: 2
Vision: 1

Top 50:
Dragons: 9
Eclipse: 5
Elysium: 11
FAnG: 8
ToT: 4
Vision: 2

Top 100:
Dragons: 11
Eclipse: 12
Elysium: 18
FAnG: 17
ToT: 9
Vision: 6

Top 250:
Dragons: 19
Eclipse: 35
Elysium: 38
FAnG: 36
ToT: 20
Vision: 23

[derry]

vision is mention, but nos aint.... kinda strange sicne nos is above Vision in rankings.... or do they don't have any t250 planets?

[xtothez]

Nos, Wp, ND and whoever can add their own stats, I doubt mine are reliable enough for publication.

[Guard]

Originally Posted by derry

vision is mention, but nos aint.... kinda strange sicne nos is above Vision in rankings.... or do they don't have any t250 planets?

That's because NoS is toying with the rankings; Taking another alliance within their ranks..

[Pilatus]

Originally Posted by Guard

That's because NoS is toying with the rankings; Taking another alliance within their ranks..

But NoS is not the only alliance that been toying with the rankings this round. And if i remember it correctly, i think Xtothez said this weren't 100 % accurate.

[Jackal2112]

xtothez only posted here what he thinks matters.. ie

EET vs evil FAnG / Dragons

just another propaganda thread

[Scorpio]

To summarize... based on xtothez's intel

EET vs FAnG/Dragons/Vision Battles:

Top 10:
1 vs 8

Top 25:
8 vs 13

Top 50:
20 vs 19

Top 100
39 vs 34

Top 250
93 vs 80

"We aer teh l33t!!"


I was close to getting top250 myself, got my fleet caught twice now though...
Been having incoming for 2 or 3 weeks straight now . Apparently some people know how to give me the attention I need. Then again... it's more quantity than quality (And it hardly ever reaches me..)

[dabult]

Originally Posted by derry

vision is mention, but nos aint.... kinda strange sicne nos is above Vision in rankings.... or do they don't have any t250 planets?

I dont speak for NoS but I can speak for hirr.

We exist in top50.

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

EET vs FAnG/Dragons/Vision Battles:

That wasnt really the point of the thread. Its not accurate unless you have:

Elysium/Eclipse/ToT/NoS vs Fang/Dragons-Seraphim/Vision/WP/VGN/ND

But hay, if you want quality vs quantity:

Alliance Members Size Score Value Avg. Size Avg. Score
FAnG 135 184,963 124,777,873 481,949,381 1,370 924,281
Elysium 105 153,047 107,884,279 419,195,704 1,458 1,027,469
Dragons 130 144,938 97,592,823 373,276,765 1,115 750,714

[Alastor]

It wasnt really the point, yet you elaborate on it and discuss? Should've ignored it really

Btw..wtf is up with this forumstyle? it SUX

[dabult]

Originally Posted by Alastor

Btw..wtf is up with this forumstyle? it SUX

Originally Posted by Karmulian

The Forums have been upgraded to a new version of the software, a major change in the design means that the current styles will not work, as such i have currently disabled them.
I intend to have these fixed and back up within the next couple of days.
If you find any bugs/changes you want please feel free to email me.
In the meantime please bear with me.
Many Thanks Karmulian

It says on the forum-overview

[Eventh]

Originally Posted by xtothez

That wasnt really the point of the thread. Its not accurate unless you have:

Elysium/Eclipse/ToT/NoS vs Fang/Dragons-Seraphim/Vision/WP/VGN/ND

But hay, if you want quality vs quantity:

Funny, you make a deal out of Dragons-Seraphim, but forget NoS-hirr, Eclipse-Virus, and shouldnt Howling Rain be on one of the sides?

This new forumstyle realy sucks!

[dabult]

Virus didnt join Eclipse, they disbanded and some (not all) of their members went to Eclipse.

[Guard]

Originally Posted by Pilatus

But NoS is not the only alliance that been toying with the rankings this round. And if i remember it correctly, i think Xtothez said this weren't 100 % accurate.

I was only talking about the NoS - VsN issue, this has nothing to do with other alliances :P ( Vision didnt take another alliance ingame did they?)

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by xtothez

That wasnt really the point of the thread. Its not accurate unless you have:

Elysium/Eclipse/ToT/NoS vs Fang/Dragons-Seraphim/Vision/WP/VGN/ND

But hay, if you want quality vs quantity:

Xto, could you FOR ONCE stop being biassed and make a post with truth and nothing but the truth? You call this "for the neutrals" yet what you did was yet again promote EET and have a piss at FAnG.

FAnG has no deal with half the alliances you just named there. Did you forget Virus? Isn't it typical how you happen to "forget" to mention certain things so it looks better for you?

Ohhh and, the avg stuff you pasted = NICE, yet I couldn't care less what the outcome of that is.

Next time, don't try to make a thread being all honnest and fair and for the "neutrals". That coming from you is 1 big joke.

rgds Kj

[Seed of Chaos]

I though WP and ND are neutral

[Aaranaf]

Originally Posted by Eventh

Funny, you make a deal out of Dragons-Seraphim, but forget NoS-hirr, Eclipse-Virus, and shouldnt Howling Rain be on one of the sides?

This new forumstyle realy sucks!

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

FAnG has no deal with half the alliances you just named there. Did you forget Virus? Isn't it typical how you happen to "forget" to mention certain things so it looks better for you?

hah... tell me... how many members from ViruS joined Eclipse when we folded? Infact, i know of some in Fang, vision, etc ect.

ViruS as a whole did not join Eclipse- seraphim joined dragons as an entity for whatever reason

NoS-hirr is like Dragons-Seraphim i suppose though

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by xtothez

That wasnt really the point of the thread. Its not accurate unless you have:

Elysium/Eclipse/ToT/NoS vs Fang/Dragons-Seraphim/Vision/WP/VGN/ND

But hay, if you want quality vs quantity:

You're kidding right?
I'm merely basing it on your info, I didn't write anything new. If it isn't accurate, or the point of this thread... then you shouldn't have started the thread.

[gzambo]

just curious but why did u only note the fang and dragons closed planets in the list

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by gzambo

just curious but why did u only note the fang and dragons closed planets in the list

I refer to the posts made by Kjeldoran and Jackal2112

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

FAnG has no deal with half the alliances you just named there. Did you forget Virus? Isn't it typical how you happen to "forget" to mention certain things so it looks better for you?

Virus didn't join Eclipse as an entity, as you know. They officially disbanded. Would you like me to count the members of disbanded alliances still in Elysium? Because Elysium-Cell-Silver-4S-Olympians would sound alot nicer for you. Just shout up if thats what you want. So long as FuriousAngels-NG-LDK-MadCows-Fury is happy, then so am I :o)

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Ohhh and, the avg stuff you pasted = NICE, yet I couldn't care less what the outcome of that is.

Of course you couldn't. That would mean having to admit publically that recruiting to #1 is a lame way to win. We can't have that can we?

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Next time, don't try to make a thread being all honnest and fair and for the "neutrals". That coming from you is 1 big joke.

I honestly thought it would be interesting for them. Being able to troll you was just a delicious bonus. Cheers Dave.

Originally Posted by gzambo

just curious but why did u only note the fang and dragons closed planets in the list

I only checked the top10. I really cba to check further. I know Elysium didn't have any planets closed at the time of posting because all closed planets were removed ingame. If you want to enlighten me on Ecl/ToT/Fang/Dragons/Vsn closings beyond t10 then feel free.

[Eventh]

Originally Posted by Aaranaf

hah... tell me... how many members from ViruS joined Eclipse when we folded? Infact, i know of some in Fang, vision, etc ect.

ViruS as a whole did not join Eclipse- seraphim joined dragons as an entity for whatever reason

NoS-hirr is like Dragons-Seraphim i suppose though

i was under the impression that ViruS hc fixed a deal with eclipse, so their members could easy join there if wanted?? i know atleast 1 virus joined vsn instead of eclipse

My and Kj points still stand, with NoS+hirr and Howling Rain.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by xtothez

Virus didn't join Eclipse as an entity, as you know. They officially disbanded. Would you like me to count the members of disbanded alliances still in Elysium? Because Elysium-Cell-Silver-4S-Olympians would sound alot nicer for you. Just shout up if thats what you want. So long as FuriousAngels-NG-LDK-MadCows-Fury is happy, then so am I )



Of course you couldn't. That would mean having to admit publically that recruiting to #1 is a lame way to win. We can't have that can we?



I honestly thought it would be interesting for them. Being able to troll you was just a delicious bonus. Cheers Dave.



I only checked the top10. I really cba to check further. I know Elysium didn't have any planets closed at the time of posting because all closed planets were removed ingame. If you want to enlighten me on Ecl/ToT/Fang/Dragons/Vsn closings beyond t10 then feel free.

ok, first of all. Fact that avg rankings don't matter to me is simply cause at the start of the game, everyone played for the overall rankings but since Elysium somehow failed to stay at the top this round, I suddenly see Ely pple talking about the avg score bullshit etc. Imo that's not a big surprise, how else can you justify the efforts if at the end you achieved nothing? Now you can atleast desperatly hold on unto your "avg score" victory, which infact EVERY alliance can (by just kicking low score pple ...). Odd that I had alot of respect for Ely a few weeks ago (Stress can dig up his pm's if you wanna hear it from someone else) but I must say, your desperate attempts to sabbotage a possible victory of FAnG is just lame. I guess, amonst alot, you just cannot deal with the fact that FAnG is more then the bunch of cheaters you like to call us.

About that recruiting to #1, let me tell you that before this round started, I had 65 members top. so yes, I recruited about 50 and more BEFORE the round started to make FAnG competitional. There's nothing wrong with that, Ely did at some point recruit pple in the past aswell to attain your current membercount. FAnG has recruited during the round, as Eclipse has, as Elysium has, as Dragons has, as even Tot has ...
FAnG didn't take in Seraphin, didn't take in Virus, didn't take in NOS, hirr or your recent guess, Vision. Infact, alot of FAnGer's did go to Eclipse etc.

And, the intitial idea of this thread is idd interesting Xto, only problem is, you gave your BIASSED opinion of the facts. You gave FAnG allies we never had, you didn't mention alliances that fought at your side, you mention closed FAnG and Dragons planets while you know for 200% that Eclipse has a closed planet aswell (ifnot more, not sure). You KNEW all this Xto, you're not a noob, yet you decided not to mention it.

If you could have made this post in all objectivity then I wouldn't have reacted, but to me (and alot other pple) this just looks like Elysium command promoting EET again and adding very subtle digs at FAnG.

You must also not forget, that for alliances such as ely and Eclipse, ending in top3 is almost a habit (well Ely never actually won, but close nway). For FAnG however, this is actually the first round where we will end in the top 3. For FAnG, this round is already a victory, imo I believe alot of outsiders will confirm this. So I do understand why it's so impossible for pple like you to accept the fact that other alliances receive abit of positive attention aswell (atleast after r8, when Fury etc quit).

Ohh and, it surprises me that someone like you actually tries to troll on AD. Not only did you use alot of means to obtain intel (whether it's legal on not, I do not wish to go into that again) but now you've lowered yourself to trolling and trying everything possible to make sure IF FAnG wins that pple will not accept it or will think it's worth less etc. I don't think you have much integrity left m8.

waiting for the next flame, signing off

rgds Kj

[xtothez]

tl;dr

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by xtothez

tl;dr

what's that mean?

[LocknLoad]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

ok, first of all. Fact that avg rankings don't matter to me is simply cause at the start of the game, everyone played for the overall rankings but since Elysium somehow failed to stay at the top this round, I suddenly see Ely pple talking about the avg score bullshit etc. Imo that's not a big surprise, how else can you justify the efforts if at the end you achieved nothing? Now you can atleast desperatly hold on unto your "avg score" victory, which infact EVERY alliance can (by just kicking low score pple ...)

rgds Kj

From what I have read and seen they only reason Ely is not #1 is because they dropped a bunch of inactive planets. Would this be true with FAnG? Can you honestly say your total member base are all fully active. If so cudos to you FAnG. If not can you truthfully claim victory?

[Darkstar]

some facts from my best knowing:
FAnG and Dragons+seraphim are allied, and napped or whatever to vision, newdawn, wolfpack, vgn

EET= Ely, Eclipse and ToT with cooperation with NoS/hirr+HR.
lets have a closer look on the second block

Ely and Eclipse r fighting hard against dragons and FAnG, ToT is quite inactive (not to judge, game sucks, and not an excuse, that EET is weaker cos of this).

NoS has special agreements with FAnG and Dragons, too. at least Kal's planet has protection from them, and thats why FAnG and Dragons dont have much incomings from NoS/hirr/HR
NoS is in war with vision, thats it, nearly no attacks on FAnG/Dragons.

then someof old virus members joined EET side, but not that many. fang/dragons.... got also members from there.

On the other side FAnG and Dragons are supported by vsn, nd,wp vgn. Those alliance hit EET every night, when dragons or FAnG have heavy incomings those alliances counter etc. not denieable, or?
or is it an accident, that now wolfpack is countering Elysium? only an example from many....

now to summarise:
EET(+virus) is hitting dragons/fang/vsn/vgn/seraphim/newdawn/wolfpack
dragons/fang/vsn/vgn/seraphim/newdawn/wolfpack is hitting ely/eclipse/tot
NoS/hirr/HR r avoiding dragons/fang but hit vision, little private war
RaH is in war with dragons

did i miss something?
(not ment as flame thread, those r the facts, that i know, perhaps some little points r false(i'm not perfect ) but mainly it will be the truth)

[Kjeldoran]

Darkstar, you're wrong. FAnG has no deals with half the alliances you mentionned. Kal has no protection at all, I even was pissed when some pple tried to recall an attack on him. I even had NOS incs yesterday so the whole NOS story is a lie.

Then, talk to WP, ask them if they are allied napped with FAnG? Ifso, that would be a first for me.

We have no agreement with nos, hirr or hr. We do however only attack eclipse and ely mainly, cause those are our biggest treath. Ely, eclipse and Tot have on their turn aimed at mainly FAnG and Dragons because we're their main enemies.

I never talked to a vgn member in my life, so I doubt they got a deal with us aswell.

I know you didn't mean to flame, but hardly anything of what you just said is correct, sorry

And lockhead, you of all pple (as former FAnG and a good friend) I'd have epxected abit more support. Yes even with the bunch of inactive pple, IF we win, it'll be a more then deserved victory imo. And tbh, nobody outside FAnG knows how active/inactive we are so plz don't make suggestions about that either.

rgds Kj

[Darkstar]

ofc its nearly nothing correct

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

what's that mean?

too long; didn't read

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

too long; didn't read

typical him then...
post long bs threads, but can't be bothered to read a long answer or clarification.
ignorant fool he is

[DrunkenViking]

/me pets FAnG hostile fleets named "NoS roids are more sexeh"

[Iceaxe]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

And lockhead, you of all pple (as former FAnG and a good friend) I'd have epxected abit more support. Yes even with the bunch of inactive pple, IF we win, it'll be a more then deserved victory imo. And tbh, nobody outside FAnG knows how active/inactive we are so plz don't make suggestions about that either.

rgds Kj

That wasn't Lockhead (unless he changed his name to LocknLoad? I honestly don't know.)

[Stress]

to end your constant blabbering dave. FanG, house Cheators, that cannot be closed due to cwardly multi hunters....

they are still Cheaters....
u know it, I know it. And the Pa team knows it.
and if u doubt it .. refer to the . planets are closed if there is conclusive proof they have cheated statement.

and the fact that even tho, they have shamed your alliance. they still have a home in FanG. is against everything u have ever spoken to me about in PM...

and about subtile digs ? what is that long ass thread of yours then ?
FanG cannot win this tound, they did not fight alone
Ely newer won a round alone. but as VeX

Did u ever consider that some would actually se those stats as inntresting ?

A little tip KJ, if u are to comment on somone elses behaviour, dont display the same thing yourself, espeshially not in the same post / thread.

and if u wanna replay, send me a PM with the same post, I dont travel a lot at these paths anny more. The first stated in my post, made me so sick of this game, that i dont care anny more.

so here, have a loss on me

[Eventh]

Originally Posted by Darkstar

(not ment as flame thread, those r the facts, that i know, perhaps some little points r false(i'm not perfect ) but mainly it will be the truth)

If you dont want to make this a flame thread, why do you write so much bullshit?

[Mistwraith]

Originally Posted by Darkstar

NoS has special agreements with FAnG and Dragons, too. at least Kal's planet has protection from them, and thats why FAnG and Dragons dont have much incomings from NoS/hirr/HR
NoS is in war with vision, thats it, nearly no attacks on FAnG/Dragons.


dragons/fang/vsn/vgn/seraphim/newdawn/wolfpack is hitting ely/eclipse/tot
NoS/hirr/HR r avoiding dragons/fang but hit vision, little private war
RaH is in war with dragons

did i miss something?
(not ment as flame thread, those r the facts, that i know, perhaps some little points r false(i'm not perfect ) but mainly it will be the truth)

Well i'm sure Fang and Dragons will be so pleased to know this... So are HR.. we shall be demanding recalls when we get incomming from them in the future ! (this is sarcasm just in case no-one noticed)

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Stress

to end your constant blabbering dave. FanG, house Cheators, that cannot be closed due to cwardly multi hunters....

they are still Cheaters....
u know it, I know it. And the Pa team knows it.
and if u doubt it .. refer to the . planets are closed if there is conclusive proof they have cheated statement.

and the fact that even tho, they have shamed your alliance. they still have a home in FanG. is against everything u have ever spoken to me about in PM...

so here, have a loss on me

lol, I know it's hard to see yourself failing miserably this round, esp when you hoped those planets cheated but after all didn't. And the only logical thing to do, like Xto, is blame it on your enemy

you're no loss, cause for that, you'd have to be worth something, which you clearly aren't

have a nice round, down there ...

rgds Kj

[KillGhost]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Then, talk to WP, ask them if they are allied napped with FAnG? Ifso, that would be a first for me.
I never talked to a vgn member in my life, so I doubt they got a deal with us aswell.

oohh so the wp in my gal can defend me? I had fang incoming and when a wp defended me he got like i don't know how many mails from fang threatening to kill him cause he was defending a allied attack. Weird.

and, ofc you didn't talk to a vgn member, why talk to a member when a hc deals with stuff like that

hi kjel btw.

[Stress]

IIf u truly believe that all of those closed where clean...
i have a bridge i want to sell u....

quit this game ages ago if u havent noticed
feel free to Guess why.

as to your 'victory' u will have none. U did not fight alone.
Same situation as every round.
but im sure, this time you wont be the first one to shout that.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Stress

as to your 'victory' u will have none. U did not fight alone.

So you're basically saying no alliance ever won a round?

[Stress]

Originally Posted by Nadar

So you're basically saying no alliance ever won a round?

aye. more or less. there is one or 2 rounds that can be debated
most rounds where won by coalitions of alliances.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Stress

aye. more or less. there is one or 2 rounds that can be debated
most rounds where won by coalitions of alliances.

I understand your point tho.. but remember that the EET block is far bigger than the F/Ð/WP/VsN/ND//VGN(/ironicmode) hehe..

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Stress

IIf u truly believe that all of those closed where clean...
i have a bridge i want to sell u....

quit this game ages ago if u havent noticed
feel free to Guess why.

as to your 'victory' u will have none. U did not fight alone.
Same situation as every round.
but im sure, this time you wont be the first one to shout that.

did eclipse won r9? according to alot, yes ...

Did they play alone that round? hardly

point proven, thx, bye (and don't take your frustrations out on us)

rgds Kj

p.s. to KG, nice try

[lokken]

Eclipse didn't win r9, it was effectively handed to them on plate.

The problem in any round is that there are players that look like they are cheating, but actually can't be closed because otherwise they might have to be given their money back. Usually I'd guess there's a fair number of 'em cheating.

The real winners have quit because they've nothing left to achieve, or playing without a care.

[virogenesis]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

did eclipse won r9? according to alot, yes ...

Did they play alone that round? hardly

point proven, thx, bye (and don't take your frustrations out on us)

rgds Kj

p.s. to KG, nice try

No.....kj bad example use fury\vts in r3 they had a block....which was made up of ReBorn Fury Legion CpV
O yeah WTF has this thread got cheating involed in it the subject was not bout cheating at all.

[Blazde]

Some time ago, at the start of the round, first thing on my mind in the mornings was my planet 'Must check for incoming', 'Must start new construction/research', 'Must spend resources before evul cov-oppers get their mits on em' etc..... But now I have a new light in my life, and it gives me such pleasure I fear I may forget my planet altogether. When I wake in the mornings (and several times through the night) I have an immense desire... 'must check what utter crap Kj is posting on AD at this moment'.

Just what about XTo's original post was biased? As far as I can tell he posted some accurate, intertesting intel that the average player doesn't have access to, and that even many HC won't have compiled in such a digestable way. As I read it I was kind of dissappointed, 'Why's he pointing out that FAnG/Dragons are owning us in the top10 and top25' I thought. Because it's stuff like this that draws the average (neutral or otherwised) player into the game more, keeping them interested, and that can only be a good thing at this stage. The only remotely inflammatory thing about his post was the signature.

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Blazde

Just what about XTo's original post was biased?

He's upset I didnt mention the cheating Ely planets in the top ranks. We should get on that right away, whats your login?!?!?!?!?!

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

lol, I know it's hard to see yourself failing miserably this round, esp when you hoped those planets cheated but after all didn't.

One word - "Touriquet"

Your peons would bug me incessantly at the start of the round to kick him because of him being a known cheater. They didn't provide proof, but they thought he was Killmark2 and expected me to follow through on that to be 'honourable' or some shit.

Later in the round he is demoted from Ely BC for inactivity, then permantly excluded after directly asking if he could run 2 planets (one being his 'schoolmates account' ), one joining fang by which he would pass intel to us, and one ingame Ely to give def (it was also at this point we realised a planet he had vouched into ely had been sending def on the calls he was covering, despite never logging into IRC). His Ely access and both planets were swiftly removed, and a list of evidence supplied to the multi-hunters. But hey, seems if you use a good proxy you're an innocent guy!

Touriquet now resides happily in Fang alongside zerocore, Waku, Kaifux, Kann, and a bunch of other guys with advanced http-anonymity skills or very inventive alibis.

The multi-hunting team is a joke, and you are a hypocrite. Good day sir.

[starbreeze]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

FAnG has no deals with half the alliances you mentionned.

care to enlighten the neutrals as to exactly which alliances you are allied to?

eclipse, ely tot and nos-hirr don't really seem to deny their part

so ... exactly which half are your allies, nap, etc?

[rnd|One]

Amusing poke at denial, kj; "I didn't handle all our pacts personally, so they never happened."
You're not giving the proper alliances due credit that have killed their planets for fang to achieve its ranking this round. I can still remember the time vengeance landed about a dozen members of theirs on a big planet of ours, losing most of their BS, but causing naturally noticeable damage to us as well. I couldn't believe the lengths the troops gathered around f/d went, even landing futile attacks just to pawe way for these same alliances to have a chance at gathering Elysium roids. Good use of the masses sending them first, atleast give them credit for that - so these alliances have a memory of PaX, even as a shield for f/d.

Maybe you have forgotten deals set around 12th of November which set nd, vsn, fang, wp, dragons and vgn to solely attack Elysium (which lasted over 2 weeks). Attacks like these http://koti.mbnet.fi/~wasted/elyvseveryone_small.gif (coords removed due AD rules) were daily routine to us, not to mention being countered by any of these alliances fang does not acknowledge to have ties with, whenever we hit a fanger.

Pleading to ignorance will not change the past, as it's not like fang was able to fight Elysium with only two allies and trying to deny all this can only be regarded as lies.