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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 12:10   #351
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Re: R31 shipstats

The cat stealer round 30 gave it an interesting twist, i liked it. Although i did get owned early round by someone crashing on a cath the tick before me and me getting owned by newly stolen lancers
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 12:24   #352
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh View Post
The cat stealer round 30 gave it an interesting twist, i liked it. Although i did get owned early round by someone crashing on a cath the tick before me and me getting owned by newly stolen lancers
Thats almost as bad as the old 3 tick attacks where u stole a chunk of someones fleet one tick, and killed them with it the next
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 12:28   #353
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Re: R31 shipstats

The init 5 and 7 stealers got changed now.

Is there a reason the Cerberus is De rather than Fr though?

Terran still have the Cr class stealer :P Not sure if that really works.
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 17:18   #354
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Re: R31 shipstats

Can we get an updated Set of Stats? I cant tell what changes have been made and which ones havent.
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 17:19   #355
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Can we get an updated Set of Stats? I cant tell what changes have been made and which ones havent.
http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.p...185&page=stats
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 08:06   #356
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Re: R31 shipstats

one thing that slightly surprises me given the number of ppl against xan is that in the gate 04 stats the banshee had A/C 345 and D/C 345 it has now gone up to A/C 384 D/C 384 and similarly the phantom had A/C 323 and D/C 387 it now has A/C 333 D/C 400
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 08:35   #357
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
one thing that slightly surprises me given the number of ppl against xan is that in the gate 04 stats the banshee had A/C 345 and D/C 345 it has now gone up to A/C 384 D/C 384 and similarly the phantom had A/C 323 and D/C 387 it now has A/C 333 D/C 400
Obviously this would be due to the lowering of the harpy's init which, although JM pointed out has flaws in its effect on xan as a whole, will hurt some xans during the round.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 09:27   #358
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Re: R31 shipstats

Ive noticed the harp D/C has been increased. Thats like trying to cure AIDS with heroin injections.

What do people think about Ter attacking capabilities? I do not see CO, at all as i viable attack fleet, FR/DE will only be useable in a team, while BS, which some people rated as "strong," cannot attack Ter, Cat, Zik, or ETD.

P.S. Gate, sorry if u think im being nasty, im just trying to raise points which i feel need to be addressed D:
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 10:36   #359
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Re: R31 shipstats

Tbh, i think ter FR is pretty damn strong. in terms of attacking, low inits will always suck, but damn ter FR is hard to kill...

(at least for xan FI/CO what people have been moaning about!)

People really talked Xan into shit tbh...
Go try beta and see for yourselfs
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 11:04   #360
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by BaasB View Post
Tbh, i think ter FR is pretty damn strong. in terms of attacking, low inits will always suck, but damn ter FR is hard to kill...

(at least for xan FI/CO what people have been moaning about!)

People really talked Xan into shit tbh...
Go try beta and see for yourselfs
Yeah, i agree, Ter FR is very nice defensively, but im not sure if they have a viable solo Attack fleet.

I think its a big jump to use beta race/fleet/user/activity representation as an indicator for a races strength.

Edit: BTW ter had a FR fortress fleet last round, but only about 10 Ters made t100. Not sure if that says something about how good a defensive fleet is for succeeding.
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

Last edited by [JungleMuffin]; 17 Apr 2009 at 11:16.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 11:23   #361
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Edit: BTW ter had a FR fortress fleet last round, but only about 10 Ters made t100. Not sure if that says something about how good a defensive fleet is for succeeding.
thats mainly due to 80% or more terrans going for cr fleets + harps though

about those stats, i think they are going to fail big time, but we´ll see
imo everyone not concentrating on fi/co will stand no chance in the very end

mixed xan/cath/ter fi/co fleets will be the nightmare to everyone, add some ziks/etd with some stolen fi/co pods and have fun arranging defence
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 12:00   #362
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Yeah, i agree, Ter FR is very nice defensively, but im not sure if they have a viable solo Attack fleet.

I think its a big jump to use beta race/fleet/user/activity representation as an indicator for a races strength.

Edit: BTW ter had a FR fortress fleet last round, but only about 10 Ters made t100. Not sure if that says something about how good a defensive fleet is for succeeding.
The problem with Ter FR last round (and probably this round as well) was that while it made for a great defensive fleet (ships that are pretty much impossible to kill tend to be a pain in the ass to attack) it was also pretty much impossible to roid without losses, as they simply didn't do enough damage to completely stop defensive fleets. Every attack I launched with FR required teamups with other races, even on tiny targets, because as a stopping force they're simply too weak and too slow.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 12:29   #363
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Re: R31 shipstats

i kind of like the idea of a terran steal ship, those going terran frigs might use it to add some ships to there fleet that will make there frig fleet stronger.

being that it's cruiser will make it almost worthless in ally def.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 15:16   #364
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Re: R31 shipstats

Ok i might sound like I'm having a good old fashioned moan here (and i am) but has sight been lost on the whole point of races?

I'm reading in other threads about the basis for backgrounds into races. But they've changed so much it's becoming a little bit messy.

Terrans always used to be the hard hitting cannons
Caths were all emp
Xans were always cloaked
Ziks all stole
Etd was introduced to have a mix.

Now caths could steal last round, terrans look like they're gonna be stealing this round and it doesn't look like it's going to be long before the boundaries are pushed further.

How have the borders between races become so blurry? Is it the person writing the stats getting bored with playing a race that never steals? is it too much outside influence on the stats?

It's difficult to explain to other people the ideas of races, when they're not consistent each round. By all means change the figures, but stop butchering the whole idea of the races just to add a cheap spin on the game.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 15:44   #365
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Re: R31 shipstats

I agree on that.
Terrans shouldnt have stealing ships.
Cath always have been a mix between emp and a few kill ships.
Zik should be stealing plus a few killing ships.
Etd is formerly Terran and the story was that they would have mixed ships because they traded alot with other races. But they have 3 cloackes 3 emps 2 stealers and just 1 normal ship.
To my opinion they should have around 6 normal ships and 1 cloack 1 steal and 1 emp. Or make it atleast like 3 normal, 2 cloacks, 2 stealers and 2 emps.

But anyways i love it that the community is working on the shipstats itself
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 17:34   #366
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Re: R31 shipstats

Dear god i hate these kinds of arguments so bad.

Playabilty>Race characteristics simple as that.
Balanced stats will always be more important than 'xan having the lowest init bla bla ter shouldnt have such ships bla bla'
Unfortunately this set of stats dont have neither though

edit: Balance or 'oldschool race characteristics'
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 17:35   #367
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
The problem with Ter FR last round (and probably this round as well) was that while it made for a great defensive fleet (ships that are pretty much impossible to kill tend to be a pain in the ass to attack) it was also pretty much impossible to roid without losses, as they simply didn't do enough damage to completely stop defensive fleets. Every attack I launched with FR required teamups with other races, even on tiny targets, because as a stopping force they're simply too weak and too slow.
I agree. I blv i said something similair only a few posts previously.
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 17:37   #368
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Re: R31 shipstats

Thats how it is though. You cant have BOTH the ability to protect roids and cap roids solo with the same fleet
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 17:57   #369
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Re: R31 shipstats

Gate: can we go back to your original stat set before you turned them into an utter joke and started frantically trying to make everyone happy and fix them by chopping them up worse? please.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 18:01   #370
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
Gate: can we go back to your original stat set before you turned them into an utter joke and started frantically trying to make everyone happy and fix them by chopping them up worse? please.
I agree.
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 18:02   #371
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Thats how it is though. You cant have BOTH the ability to protect roids and cap roids solo with the same fleet
I agree. Unfortunately the Terran secondary fleets, as they currently stand, are not an option for attack.

BS can only land on Xan (which is still a problem as youll have alot def fleets with 0 ships ie Bomber/Broad, not to mention Rogs, Bucs, Cat DE, and cant self land.

And tbh. CO is worse. Cant land on Ter, cant land on Xan, gotta outflak a Cat (which has anti CO kill ships,) youve got valkyrie trying to kill cutlass, which will be a joke, topped off by ETD with tycoon ( which lets face it, is last round's pillager on red bull.)

I see it all like this. Your always going to have dominant races/classes, but as long as the stats are balanced, thats all that really matters. I get the feeling that where balance was previously the goal, it is now turning into compensatory. Yeah, xan where, and still are, going to be the dominant force this round. We can accept that. I can only speak for myself, and say that the only flaw i found in the .04 stats was that it was TOO dominant. I think that couldve been touched up, ever so minutely, and it would be acceptable, without the need for whats currently happening.

I _liked_ .04 D:
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

Last edited by [JungleMuffin]; 17 Apr 2009 at 18:13.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 19:53   #372
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post

In order to give terran CO-with-dragons another weakness (now that they're tough to anything that's not an EMP fleet) I pushed broadsword init to 6, dragon to 7, xan CR->BS ship to 8.
This makes Xan immune to ter BS, and also makes ter BS as good as worthless.

Set 04 was good, no need to do any major changes.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 00:30   #373
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Re: R31 shipstats

Not that they mean anything, but beta stats atm (PT 1687).

Notice how many people are playing it like a speedgame, and thus trashing any sort of useful info that should come out of it.

Will look at Xan CR over this weekend, as it's quite apparent nobody is "testing" that much.



Terran 27(24%)
Cathaar 23(21%)
Xandathrii 30(27%)
Zikonian 14(12%)
Eitraides 15(13%)

1 Ter 7,855 16,414,791
2 Zik 138 6,545,970
3 Cat 1,052 5,976,042
4 Cat 1,768 5,973,887
5 Cat 278 4,950,460
6 Cat 2,846 4,601,673
7 Ter 971 4,568,786
8 Ter 993 4,365,043
9 Ter 2,231 3,545,647
10 Ter 834 3,422,006

Harpy 2,560,737 Valkyrie 2,146,054
Phoenix 945,680 Centaur 1,526,335
Gryphon 1,605,137 Cerberus 852,270
Kraken 257,420 Wyvern 215,845
Dragon 100,243 Sylph 65,983
Minotaur 30,341 Leviathan 10,172
Behemoth 1,000

Beetle 3,097,134
Recluse 2,124,530 Locust 1,363,773
Mantis 62,023 Scorpion 267,685
Spider 374,165 Black Widow 797,973
Scarab 203,398 Roach 176,428
Tarantula 183,441 Mosquito 105,117
Dragonfly 34,994 Hornet 19,629
Termite 2,000

Banshee 2,039,172
Phantom 1,783,812 Revenant 829,906
Ghost 9,315 Bomber 444,740
Spirit 2,438 Wraith 153,359
Spectre 29,489 Shadow 28,893
Illusion 88,587 Mirage 1,410
Haunt 18,040 Apparition 20,221


Corsair 404,729 Cutlass 323,569
Buccaneer 258,965 Thief 39,026
Brigand 212,451 Rogue 18,324
Marauder 45,006 Pirate 24,527
Privateer 3,874 Ironclad 3,071


Guardian 32,539 Defender 248,456
Broker 14,550 Tycoon 15,778
Destroyer 67,500 Paladin 21,813
Fireblade 183,877 Broadsword 80,359
Merchant 15,010 Vulture 8,044
Predator 5,174 Basilisk 1,000
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 01:10   #374
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Re: R31 shipstats

Betas are hilariously worthless. Some guy in ascendancy spent all his res on krakens earlier today. I mean ****ing seriously.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 02:09   #375
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
Notice how many people are playing it like a speedgame, and thus trashing any sort of useful info that should come out of it.

Will look at Xan CR over this weekend, as it's quite apparent nobody is "testing" that much.
Wouldn't you rather have authentic use cases? Why so whiny? :crymeariver:

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Betas are hilariously worthless. Some guy in ascendancy spent all his res on krakens earlier today. I mean ****ing seriously.
Then there's that... but it IS funny.
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"This latest incident comes in the wake of a February episode in which an ambulating chatbot device created at Caltech was programmed to repeat the phrase "I am a faggot" while locomoting across campus."
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 02:13   #376
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Then there's that... but it IS funny.
The actual round is there for your entertainment. If you want a speedgame play havoc. If you're going to sign up for a beta please try and do so in the frame of mind of helping the game.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 02:59   #377
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Re: R31 shipstats

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The actual round is there for your entertainment. If you want a speedgame play havoc. If you're going to sign up for a beta please try and do so in the frame of mind of helping the game.
Or you could simply get off it; mind your work and get it done. Aren't you wasting that precious time in formulating your response to this... and the complaints that are leading to this?

It's weird, br0.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 03:38   #378
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Re: R31 shipstats

Can you rename the destroyer perhaps? afaik having the ship name the same as a class caused problems in lots of calcs.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 05:42   #379
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Re: R31 shipstats

These stats were posted for amusement purposes only, so be warned.

Terran and Cath are LEET, yo!
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 06:45   #380
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Re: R31 shipstats

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These stats were posted for amusement purposes only, so be warned.

Terran and Cath are LEET, yo!
I know weve got Cathaaaargh

But what about Terran?

Terrraaaaaaan perhaps?
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 12:15   #381
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Can you rename the destroyer perhaps? afaik having the ship name the same as a class caused problems in lots of calcs.
Will rename it 'Devastator' then.

Might make the fireblade 'normal' and call it 'dreadnought' if people still want etd to have more of a mix.

I just got back from Nottingham and I'm going to the footy today, will be back to look at stats tonight.


Which races are underpowered and which are overpowered?
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 12:28   #382
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Re: R31 shipstats

Zik are pretty bad imo... (not that Ive calced it much) cause reduced salvage ****s them over royally.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 13:00   #383
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Re: R31 shipstats

When I pick up the current statset and put it side-by-side with version 1 I get very sad inside. It's that special kind of helpless sad you get when you see wasted potential. I blame this shitty thread too, designing by committee seems to work about as well for the stats as it has for PATeam in past endeavours.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 13:03   #384
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Re: R31 shipstats

Agreed, having a thread like this just doesnt work, people bitch and moan that somethings are to overpowered and try to get races they want to play boosted up.

These stats are the worst set i have seen for along time(due pretty much to ALL the changes), i actually wouldnt play if i didnt have a bp sorted. They have very little potential for any actual fun with them (fakes etc)
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 13:40   #385
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Re: R31 shipstats

r30 stats slightly tweaked anyone?
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 13:44   #386
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
r30 stats slightly tweaked anyone?
r30 wasn't long enough ?
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 14:14   #387
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Re: R31 shipstats

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When I pick up the current statset and put it side-by-side with version 1 I get very sad inside.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 16:57   #388
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
r30 wasn't long enough ?
someone's said it before in a different way, but:

i'd rather have a round with balanced stats even if we've seen them for 10 weeks already, then one with a **** **** poor wtf do you call that wow those were good when we started so what the **** happened bunch of stats.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 18:41   #389
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Zik are pretty bad imo... (not that Ive calced it much) cause reduced salvage ****s them over royally.
Don't think the stats for zik are necessarily bad but the salvage issue does royal **** zik this round. Calcing wise the best combo for zik for me personally was cutlass and BS but with that fleet composition I think you will be struggling to get many roids unless you are either lucky with steals or prepared to bash small planets only
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 19:01   #390
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Re: R31 shipstats

it was stupid to reduce the salvage just because some people were too dumb to not crash
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 19:06   #391
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Re: R31 shipstats

So we all agree that the current stat-set is completely shit?
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 19:12   #392
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Re: R31 shipstats

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So we all agree that the current stat-set is completely shit?
I don't want to be too harsh because I'd be awful at stat designing myself but can't say I like them that much. The ridiculous idea to reduce salvage by such a dramatic margin is what bugs me the most, don't think I could blame Gate for that though.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 19:29   #393
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Re: R31 shipstats

while I dont think that the current stats set is great I do think it is better than the 1st version of gate's stats (it had too many unplayable options like xan fr) and I was also not particularly keen on last rounds stats so would prefer a change rather than using round 30's. The salvage change would probably also mean that any stats set would need a fair bit of change to compensate. [not in any way implying that it has been factored into Gates set - I dont really know, but looks like it might have been with terran and not zik ]
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 19:49   #394
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Re: R31 shipstats

give the statmaker a break please, he has been more than willing to listen to well structured arguments which is already a good thing, it means that if you use decent arguments and , even more importantly, well thought through alternatives (looked at from all races point of view and not just your favourite race) it might just be looked into and acted on accordingly. Pretty democratic approach, but ofc with so many ppl advocating their own race in their arguments it happens that the statsmakers listen to what they (wrongly) think is the common view

for what i see, no race is dominant at the moment and all races can be roided by certain attackfleets. I must admit that it looks very messy at the moment, but stats are not final yet so lets all put some effort in giving gate actual help.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 20:14   #395
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Re: R31 shipstats

First off I think The comment about Zik earlier is true. They are Vulnerable to EVERY ship type and will get royally ****ed by the new salvage rules.

I think they need Another Co. A kill ships Co/De init 6, So that way it fires before Rev but after Terran Co's. It means that Zik have some abilty to defend themselfs.

As it stands they have no ways to get any steals with out good team ups and people being stupid.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 20:17   #396
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Re: R31 shipstats

making stats is a job without many rewards. I am happy for the fact he puts effort in though.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 20:27   #397
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
First off I think The comment about Zik earlier is true. They are Vulnerable to EVERY ship type and will get royally ****ed by the new salvage rules.

I think they need Another Co. A kill ships Co/De init 6, So that way it fires before Rev but after Terran Co's. It means that Zik have some abilty to defend themselfs.

As it stands they have no ways to get any steals with out good team ups and people being stupid.
Not true, ziks have to rely on stealing on def missions anyway, and since when is teaming a bad thing? Teaming is going to be important for every race with these stats since there is at least one def-kill-ship with init advantage per solo attackfleet in universe.
I must say i find it a good thing there are more possibilities to counter fi/co than last round ; with many fr/de ships targetting fi/co, your chances on finding decent anti fi/co ingal increases
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 21:26   #398
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Re: R31 shipstats

Looking at the stats, I honestly can't see how the balance is 'shit'.

Xand actually look pretty weak to me (but everyone says they're overpowered and perceived overpowering can lead to real unbalancing because of race selections).

Cath are like they usually are, zik always do well (although may need improvements thanks to salvage), terrans have some tough options (but, excepting BS, aren't too hot on the attack, but people say they're overpowered) and etd have two viable options in the FR/DE swarm and the lancer+BS.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 22:15   #399
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Re: R31 shipstats

At this point I'd really just like to see a final stat set. You really should not have listened to people here though gate heh. Just fix emp efficiencies and **** it.
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Unread 18 Apr 2009, 22:33   #400
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
At this point I'd really just like to see a final stat set. You really should not have listened to people here though gate heh. Just fix emp efficiencies and **** it.
Only quoting this one, but there are so many...

What is wrong with the logic here that says, "Don't listen to the complaints/advice in this thread", then promptly follows up with, "Do this, and that, because I want it that way".

You're STILL being weird.
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