and finally i see it

[K03N]

i never understood why creators are so much in favor of a p2p round, because it's the dumbest thing to do. even from the 'business perspective'.
does Jolt really need to make R9 p2p while they are able to pay 2 new creators?
is the debt that high that they can't give a 'free bonus' round to the 4,5k loyal players that is still left of a playerbase that has been +-180.000 players in the past?
of course not.
and even if it was so, then why not trying to get loads of newbies playing the last round of the 'old pa'; make them enthousiastic so they may be willing to pay for a completely new, better R10?

wouldn't 10/15k players paying in 2 months be wayyy better than 3k paying now?
yes. this would be much more effective, also because you have more people playing the first round of the new pa then.
and if R10 is really that good as creators say it will be, then i'm sure those 10k wouldn't mind telling friends about the game so R11 will have a growing community again, for a change.

i think that pa choses for p2p in R9, because R9 and R10 will be too different.
R9 is a nice opportunity to get rid of the small bunch of (complaining) leftovers out of old times.
it's only better for them to have as less players as possible for R10, because when you start at 0, everyone is a newbie.
and without the experiences players, those newbies can have a much nicer game.
they even may like the game, and tell friends etc etc....and yes, R11 will be an even bigger succes then.

i was so stupid to believe all those announcements with compliments for the old core of players. creators don't give a fk about the community that makes pa so special, and different from the many clones.
its just the future for the game that counts, with or without 'us'.

don't get me wrong; i haven't got cristicism on the creators. perhaps this is the best way to keep the game alive.
i'm just pissed off that the community i like so much will die now.
and it will, trust me on that.

[xtothez]

The creators aren't so much in favour of a p2p round.
Jolt are.

[Tactitus]

Seeing as the antidote isn't ready, the Physicians feel they have no choice but to administer another dose of the poison. :/

[Cochese]

Sometimes the most humane thing to do is just shoot the horse

[Hicks]

Originally posted by xtothez
The creators aren't so much in favour of a p2p round.
Jolt are.

Why did Zeus advise Jolt that Round 9 should be P2P then ?

[Kileman]

Stupid is.... stupid does.
________
HONDA GL650I

[Jonas]

sorry KoeN, I dont agree :/

The creators and PA wouldnt live a second without the old players, or they would atleast loose lots on us leaveing...nevertheless

Why give a last round to all the cheaters, so they can destroy it? as i said before id rather play with 4k players with less cheating, than 180k with lots of it...

Take this round as a "last round of old PA" and give it to the "old" players...Lets see who is really the bext, when activity counts the most,. aswell as dedication and 1337ness...Lets see who can win the most even round of pa ever?

I agree on free sometime again, but I wouldnt want it now.

-Jonas-

[RooKie]

PA will be better off without the l333test core of players...and r10 will be so diffrent, they dont really want them to see r9 PA.

Play this round as it is the last one - because thats what it essentially is...

All the community has done is complain and repeatedly insult and belittle the creators for, agreedy bad, choices. It has killed the rounds through alliance management (ie powerblocking, endorsed farming/bot usage and account sharing) and poor treatment of new players.

You claim the creators have wrung the life out of PA whilst you yourselves have contibuted to it the most.

This community no longer deserves planetarion.

[zenopus]

Originally posted by K03N
i never understood why creators are so much in favor of a p2p round, because it's the dumbest thing to do. even from the 'business perspective'.
does Jolt really need to make R9 p2p while they are able to pay 2 new creators?
is the debt that high that they can't give a 'free bonus' round to the 4,5k loyal players that is still left of a playerbase that has been +-180.000 players in the past?
of course not.
and even if it was so, then why not trying to get loads of newbies playing the last round of the 'old pa'; make them enthousiastic so they may be willing to pay for a completely new, better R10?

Do you want to play in a universe where half of those 4k to 6k players sign up for their one account as per the user agreement, and the other half signs up for a few dozen accounts?
Maybe you do. I don't, and Zeus does not think it is fair to offer players a deal like that.

wouldn't 10/15k players paying in 2 months be wayyy better than 3k paying now?
yes. this would be much more effective, also because you have more people playing the first round of the new pa then.
and if R10 is really that good as creators say it will be, then i'm sure those 10k wouldn't mind telling friends about the game so R11 will have a growing community again, for a change.

A free R9 is not so much going to recruit new players who are willing to pay as it will saturate the universe with multi planets from players who are not willing to pay.

i think that pa choses for p2p in R9, because R9 and R10 will be too different.
R9 is a nice opportunity to get rid of the small bunch of (complaining) leftovers out of old times.

Do you count yourself as one?

it's only better for them to have as less players as possible for R10, because when you start at 0, everyone is a newbie.
and without the experiences players, those newbies can have a much nicer game.
they even may like the game, and tell friends etc etc....and yes, R11 will be an even bigger succes then.

i was so stupid to believe all those announcements with compliments for the old core of players. creators don't give a fk about the community that makes pa so special, and different from the many clones.
its just the future for the game that counts, with or without 'us'.

don't get me wrong; i haven't got cristicism on the creators. perhaps this is the best way to keep the game alive.
i'm just pissed off that the community i like so much will die now.
and it will, trust me on that.

I don't agree with any of that.

[Glatze]

who cares about a few euros for a game, pfff

Nothing in life is free u idiots.

[Silva baby]

hasn't it been well documented that old alliances seem to kill PA? with the n00bie bashin and all? :P

[General Martok]

Originally posted by Glatze
who cares about a few euros for a game, pfff

Nothing in life is free u idiots.

Yeah like that few euro is gonna make you go bancrupt...

[K03N]

Originally posted by Glatze
who cares about a few euros for a game, pfff

Nothing in life is free u idiots.

ehm...all the clones are free atm glatze.
why should a newbie pay for pa (a game they don't even know) while they can play other games for free?
anyway all has been said i think.
i was just posting my personal opinion here; i don't feel the need to convince any of you of my expectation that another round p2p will kill atleast a big part of the community.

[Lerxst]

Originally posted by Jonas Why give a last round to all the cheaters, so they can destroy it? as i said before id rather play with 4k players with less cheating, than 180k with lots of it...

p2p has never ever stopped cheaters and multies. Never. Never. Ever. So, I count this argument out.

Better to live in a universe with 10k players (3k real ones) then in one with 1k players (800 real ones).

I know at least 20 real players who would come back for a free round 9. A free R9 would have meant a lot of fun for us. And my personal aim when playing PA is havig fun, not paying anyone. And if I have to pay for having fun (which is my first goal) I gladly will. But each p2p-round meant less fun to me - not because of the cost, but because of the shrinked playerbase. So the problem with R9 is not the ten bucks (or whatever it will cost) - it's that no one will play it. And that's a fact, sadly. I paid rounds 5 to 8, at least two accounts per round (one for me, some to give away to keep some friends in the game who would have quit else) and I did it because I thought "Where the hell is the problem with paying 10 bucks for 2-3 months of fun?".

The world is like this - get over it. Most ppl leech music from the net. Less ppl buy CDs. Most ppl like to play free online-games. Those, willing to pay for an online-game play those, where they are not constantly bashed just because they dare to sleep or dare to have a life. So - if we whine or not about those for whom p2p is not acceptable - R9 PA is near dead before signups even started. Those few who stay in will be the most hardcore and thus R9 will be more competitive then ever. R10 will maybe be a complete new game (how often did we hear such things now since R3? Maybe this time it will be true...), but R9 won't be a big success. Neither for the players fun-wise, nor for Jolt money-wise.

Still I say - either make the meantime fun with a free round and maybe crappy server and minimum support (better to wait 10mins for a page to load then be in a 1k-player-universe I say) and focus on the development of R10, or at least be honest to the current players and say "YES - we want a *new* community playing our *new* game which starts spring 2003 and hence there will be no PA for the next 3 months. But please come back in march and look out for the best blablabla online-game ever!". But this R9 is most likely designed as a farce. Saying "PA as you have known is dead" would have been honest and accepted by the intelligent players because that's a fact.
Maybe a free round cannot be financed properly. Even with low support and crappy servers. But then again I would have preferred a clear statement like "PA is dead. Wait for the new PA in march." IMO is the current state of R9 far away from being the best solution. But then again, it's just my opinion.

[Backbone]

Originally posted by Lerxst
p2p has never ever stopped cheaters and multies. Never. Never. Ever. So, I count this argument out.

Better to live in a universe with 10k players (3k real ones) then in one with 1k players (800 real ones).

...

Still I say - either make the meantime fun with a free round and maybe crappy server and minimum support (better to wait 10mins for a page to load then be in a 1k-player-universe I say) and focus on the development of R10, or at least be honest to the current players and say "YES - we want a *new* community playing our *new* game which starts spring 2003 and hence there will be no PA for the next 3 months. But please come back in march and look out for the best blablabla online-game ever!". But this R9 is most likely designed as a farce. Saying "PA as you have known is dead" would have been honest and accepted by the intelligent players because that's a fact.
Maybe a free round cannot be financed properly. Even with low support and crappy servers. But then again I would have preferred a clear statement like "PA is dead. Wait for the new PA in march." IMO is the current state of R9 far away from being the best solution. But then again, it's just my opinion.

I agree with you 110%

[zenopus]

There have never ever been as many cheaters and multies as when PA was free. Never. Never. Ever.
Even in relative terms.
So I don't see how you can disregard that argument...

[Lerxst]

Originally posted by zenopus
There have never ever been as many cheaters and multies as when PA was free. Never. Never. Ever.
Even in relative terms.
So I don't see how you can disregard that argument...

Because p2p never ever was able to stop cheater. It cut down a bit the multies but not in that extend as you ever may think. Still more than 30% in the game were multies. At least.
And it brought up accountsharing and -trading to an higher extend than when it was free. The percentage of ppl sharing/trading/giving accounts away I would say was far above 70% of the playberbase. The methods of cheating became different due to beeing a multi was a bit more expensive. But still having 2-10 accounts was for many ppl far away from being unaffordable.

We're talking about assumptions when talking about numbers. But seeing potential winners f.ex. of R7 being deleted shows to what extend cheating was common under p2p...

You see?

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by zenopus
There have never ever been as many cheaters and multies as when PA was free. Never. Never. Ever.
Even in relative terms.
So I don't see how you can disregard that argument...

I don't think the absolute number of cheaters is especially relevent. Even relative numbers (percentage of cheaters) can be misleading.

When the game was free, there were a lot more casual players. If those players created an extra account or three, the net impact on the game was still small (1 **** player + 4 accounts = 4 **** accounts). Many of these cheaters weren't active enough or well-enough allied to parlay their extra accounts into a significant advantage; eventually they just ended up being roided by the better players.

Of course, I'm sure some of the better players cheated too (even beyond the ubiquitous scan planets).

You can say p2p drove out the casual players, but you can also say it drove out the casual cheaters. And any way you count it, casual players/cheaters were far more numerous than serious players/cheaters.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by K03N
ehm...all the clones are free atm glatze.
why should a newbie pay for pa (a game they don't even know) while they can play other games for free?

Like they can compare to PA at any level...

[K03N]

Originally posted by RooKie
Like they can compare to PA at any level...

explain that to a newbie.

[Zword]

Originally posted by K03N
ehm...all the clones are free atm glatze.
why should a newbie pay for pa (a game they don't even know) while they can play other games for free?

What is better a fake or an original. I think the original. If you buy nike shoes you don't buy a ripp-off nike shoe. So this is the same. You wanna play the real deal. And all those rip-offs don't even compare to this.

[Beast-of-War]

Originally posted by Zword
What is better a fake or an original. I think the original. If you buy nike shoes you don't buy a ripp-off nike shoe. So this is the same. You wanna play the real deal. And all those rip-offs don't even compare to this.

My fake nike shoes would be free.
My original nike shoes id have to pay for.
:P

It's only a few quid.... not as if its going to break the bank is it?

[Zeus]

Originally posted by Hicks
Why did Zeus advise Jolt that Round 9 should be P2P then ?

Its amazing how you twisted my words hicks, I was not in faviour off p2p round 9 and all creators felt in the biggining free round 9 would be good. Sadly it wasnt an option and I was merly pointing out that it ISNT that bad for the game. Namely making the best out of a bad situation.

[Colt]

indeed

tho any eta on announcement??

[Zeus]

Originally posted by Colt
indeed

tho any eta on announcement??

I finally got some answers and will be announcing them in a bit.

[Colt]

\o/

tho wot would u call a 'bit'??

[RooKie]

\o/

[Mushroom]

Originally posted by K03N
creators don't give a fk about the community that makes pa so special, and different from the many clones.

You can't say that. Zeus was positively BATTLING to get PA sold so the game and community could go on, and spent many days trying to make sure that even if the game did die, the forums and portal could still survive and allow the community to carry on as well.

[Lerxst]

I personally think that the old creators truely love this game - it's their "child". I personally think that they worked their asses of for the sake of PA. I personally think that they still do care and try everything to make the best out of it.

Still I personally think Jolt did not the best for it by deciding to make it p2p again. Either for monetary reasons or to get rid of the annoying PA-community - I doubt that they did the best for PA and themselves.

[Scaggydo]

Originally posted by Zeus
I finally got some answers and will be announcing them in a bit.

how long is a piece of string?

[Zeus]

Originally posted by Scaggydo
how long is a piece of string?

11 Jan 2003 13:03 post saying announcment in a bit.

Saturday 11th January 2003 at 14:17 - Time of my post on the Portal.


So, concidering the forums are on UK tmie and the portal server on cet which is -1 hr, I would say this pece of string was in fact about 14mins long

[mbushell]

Originally posted by Zeus
I would say this pece of string was in fact about 14mins long

Can you make some kinda graphical aid to picture this 14 minute long string?



Even though i am taking the piss, it's worthy of a siggy .

[K03N]

Originally posted by Mushroom
You can't say that. Zeus was positively BATTLING to get PA sold so the game and community could go on, and spent many days trying to make sure that even if the game did die, the forums and portal could still survive and allow the community to carry on as well.

you're right about that i guess.

[Jonas]

most clones die because they suck. thoose who doesnt often see their chances to make money, and charge people for it when playerbase is high enough

I dunno myself if I will play r10 or if so on what activity level. But that isnt because i think they dont want me, or because i think it will suck. Its because i have played since a few weeks into r2, and are more or less in need of a break. a good long break where my school and alcohol abuse gets first. maybe even try to get a job ^^

most girls dont like us when we spend our lives in front of the PC...we gotta realize that sometime lol


I love Zeus, he is teh funneh( and his timezone is weird, but we dont blame him )

[RooKie]

Anyone seen the latest announcment by SS?

*evil laughter*

[Muzzinator]

if it was free.. imo we'll get some new/old players for a round then most of them leave when it becomes p2p (which it has to be - money makes the world go round etc.) and we'll be left here listening to people complaining that it isn't free and how great it was back then.. *sigh*

edit: although it could keep some people from leaving.. (the question is what sort of people are they?)

[Jonas]

Retards like Muzzy stay

[Muzzinator]

and you jonas? :P

[Neferti]

makes more sense to have round 9 'p2play' and round 10 free. Round 9 makes a little extra cash, they have nothing to lose by doing that, as other people have said round 10 will be practically a new game.. hence one or two free rounds of that at the start make more sense... round 10 requires this development time anyway, so why not have a p2p round to make a little extra money in the meantime?

of course if round 10 is also p2p then this hypothesis is rubbish