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Unread 16 May 2009, 10:20   #101
eksero
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

that is pretty close to 50%
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Unread 16 May 2009, 10:35   #102
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

wheres the attackers salvage?
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Unread 16 May 2009, 12:11   #103
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

eksero i actually checked my news so here goes:
value of my cr fleet was in resources: 9,250m M 10,400m C 9,250m E
exact sal: 3,052m M 3,424m C 3,052m E

with the cr i could have rebuilt from the sal i could have gotten a sh**e and pretty weak fleet tbh
fun eh?=P

hardly 50%
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Unread 16 May 2009, 15:24   #104
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

thats not 230k value as u said in the first post tho!
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Unread 16 May 2009, 18:24   #105
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

cathaar is supposed to get a 40% bonus already. still seems low even considering that.
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Unread 16 May 2009, 18:57   #106
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

i estimated eksero duh!
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Unread 16 May 2009, 21:14   #107
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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Originally Posted by Ave View Post
wheres the attackers salvage?
Why should attackers get salvage, especially if they have crashed?
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Unread 16 May 2009, 22:02   #108
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

i think what Ave was asking about, was where is the attacker's salvage in the FC on csillag. The only ships that died were hers, and the attackers took no losses iirc.
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Unread 17 May 2009, 08:28   #109
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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Why should attackers get salvage, especially if they have crashed?
Why should defenders get salvage when they crash? same freaking thing!
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Unread 17 May 2009, 08:52   #110
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

Defending should be rewarded, crashing your fleet on attacks shouldnt.
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Unread 17 May 2009, 09:32   #111
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

crashing defence through poor DCing shouldnt be rewarded
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Unread 17 May 2009, 10:11   #112
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
Defending should be rewarded, crashing your fleet on attacks shouldnt.
Fleet movement in general needs to be rewarded, regardless where u move it. Obviously bad movement causes some step backs, but shouldnt how ever end your round. Else it DOES ENCOURAGE NOOB ROIDING! Because there is no place for mistakes. Such as not noticing some hidden production or stuff like that, anyone expesially new people can easily step in to trap like that.

The reward from attacking is possible kills, roid gain and xp bonus.
The reward from defending is possible kills and keeping your roids/growth (alliance/gal/your own) and xp bonus.

I dont see how ****ing up your defence or ****ing up your attack should differ. Most crashes aint made by purpouse thats for sure.
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Unread 17 May 2009, 12:37   #113
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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Originally Posted by [DW]Entropy View Post
crashing defence through poor DCing shouldnt be rewarded
You dont need to crash your def to get salvage
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Unread 17 May 2009, 20:40   #114
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

I think some people are also forgetting that last round the reason Golan/Hude/Shazna etc got such value gains is not completely due to the salvage % but the fact they were zik and so stole the equivalent value of what they lost AND THEN got the salvage on top.....
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Unread 18 May 2009, 14:38   #115
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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I think some people are also forgetting that last round the reason Golan/Hude/Shazna etc got such value gains is not completely due to the salvage % but the fact they were zik and so stole the equivalent value of what they lost AND THEN got the salvage on top.....
ziks already lose ships when stealing. if u wouldnt get any salvage when stealing on def mission and therefore losing ships, zik d lose their speciality=P
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Unread 18 May 2009, 14:43   #116
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

They lose ships but not value.
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Unread 18 May 2009, 14:46   #117
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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ziks already lose ships when stealing. if u wouldnt get any salvage when stealing on def mission and therefore losing ships, zik d lose their speciality=P
Zik speciality is stealing, noones taken that away. They lose ships but swap them for other ships. so not much value (if any) is lost.

EDIT : mz beat me to it
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Unread 18 May 2009, 22:52   #118
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

But you might loose useful ships and steal some bullshit that does not fit into your fleet
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Unread 19 May 2009, 08:18   #119
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

salvage is for pussies
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Unread 19 May 2009, 10:33   #120
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
They lose ships but not value.
that im aware of.
maybe should have pointed out that rounds ago ziks didnt even lose stealers when capping ships (attack or defwise), and that has been changed drastically by introducing the "zik stealers die to steal" principle.
why on earth should people reduce defsalvage for ziks?
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Unread 19 May 2009, 11:24   #121
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

maybe the answer would be in raising salvage given when attackers die dividing between defenders THAT ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN COMBAT (yes that needed caps), while reducing salvage for defender ships that die?

it is a war game, so when you lose ships while defending and killing attackers off - the main bonus is that the attacker has lost those ships and does not get compensation to rebuild. the defender should receive enough to rebuild, but not enough to rebuild 100% - let alone profit from it.
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Unread 19 May 2009, 12:25   #122
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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that im aware of.
maybe should have pointed out that rounds ago ziks didnt even lose stealers when capping ships (attack or defwise), and that has been changed drastically by introducing the "zik stealers die to steal" principle.
why on earth should people reduce defsalvage for ziks?
The point of this thread is reducing salvage, period. Ziks are affected by this change no more than other races are. No offence intended, but what you say is quite irrelevant.
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Unread 19 May 2009, 17:05   #123
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Exclamation Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

I wonder if part of the problem is that any salvage formula has to serve more than one master? You want high(er) salvage to reward defenders and you want low(er) salvage to reduce/eliminate donations.

One solution might be to cap salvage at a percentage of each defender's losses. So if you don't lose any ships then you don't get any salvage (no matter how many ships you may have disabled). It wouldn't be completely realistic of course but it would eliminate any donations.

I know some people don't like "artificial caps," but it would allow the salvage formula to just focus on the right level of compensation.
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Unread 19 May 2009, 19:09   #124
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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Originally Posted by Tactitus View Post
I wonder if part of the problem is that any salvage formula has to serve more than one master? You want high(er) salvage to reward defenders and you want low(er) salvage to reduce/eliminate donations.

One solution might be to cap salvage at a percentage of each defender's losses. So if you don't lose any ships then you don't get any salvage (no matter how many ships you may have disabled). It wouldn't be completely realistic of course but it would eliminate any donations.

I know some people don't like "artificial caps," but it would allow the salvage formula to just focus on the right level of compensation.
agreed there, defenders can be rewarded in other ways too.
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Unread 21 May 2009, 11:02   #125
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

Imo ziks have it good now. They win by defending and capping ships that way. If they'd get more salvage on attacks, it would just make them n00bbash alot and try getting ships that way.
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Unread 21 May 2009, 20:54   #126
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

Tbh, I don't understand this whining about no salvage. Why the fk get ships replaced for skrewing up? Both att and def. When a call is not covered, it isn't. People are just whining cause it's not as easy to defend now. I say it's good, makes the game more offensive.
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Unread 22 May 2009, 08:42   #127
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

game should b far more offencive than it is atm.. atm its quite easy to cover 3-4 fleet wave incs tbh.. and basicly if u arent cath this round then u cant hit neone alone :P thats for sure and thats whats wrong imho
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Unread 24 May 2009, 16:30   #128
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

Etd BS can still hit alot of planets solo - and no one says you have to hit the fat targets all the time. Capping 75 - 125 roids a day is perfectly fine if your trying to build value.

Again salvage should be set higher to reward decent defence effort as opposed to retarded lands that fully cap but lose 50% - 80% of fleet value for example :|
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Unread 27 May 2009, 16:16   #129
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I'm not writing this post from my perspective, despite what wish mentioned earlier really, ascendancy aren't going to be the ones who fail to defend. What you're going to find is that the lower alliances gradually stop defending because the core of players there who do often defend will either become small, due to insignificant salvage gains and quite often losses, while defending or they'll become slightly big and worry that their fleets will be destroyed in battles defending small planets that couldn't possibly defend them back when they get incoming.
As the head of HA defence one of the lower allaince it is excally what has happened def is dropping off more by the day because people just arnt willing to sacrifce ships.

Salvage should be based almost entirly on comparitve value, small planet deffing against sombody bashing at the limit should have almsot 100% salvage recovered, for normal kill ships and emp ofc and steal ships that are killed,
Salavge for big planets bing crashed on by people half there score should be alot lower, Salvage was brought into help people recover from bashings
so wheather it is a 500k value planet being bashed by a 1 million value or a 2 million value planet being ten man attacked by combined value of 5 or more million, those planets shoudl regain enough that they dont quit and reduce the player base even more
while at the same time making the 1 million value planets crashed on by a 300k 400k forgot to recall idiot have little salvage at all
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