Planetarion Forums

Fatrick · 19 Jan 2010, 11:59

Was sitting reading some of Spinners forum posts last night and this came across my mind....why is it so hard for newcomers to understand the game?? Any other game Ive played has this thing called TUTORIALS to aid the new guys. Where the game sits you down, tkaes you by the hand and explains what is what. Now, I realise that the Quests we have are supposed to do this, but I even doubt most new people can open up the Quests! Let me explain...when your first lead into the game you see Quests. O good, something to show me what the craic is. But its just a list..no good. Then you see 'Status (click for breakdown)'. Ok, so I click this, nothing happens. Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer a '+' to click, the universal sign for "theres more information lurking under here" as opposed to some cryptic clues to solve.

Anyway, onto my main point. The tutorial. Im lazy! And especially if im new to a game I dont want to read 100 pages of manual. What Im proposing is like a quick video tutorial that explains things. A 5min video can explain the manual 100 times over imo!
Or alternatively, a Microsoft Office paperclip spinoff that lurks around the pages explaing whats going on in each page, and if you get really stuck, allows you to type some questions into it. (OFC this can be turned off in preferences for those that know the game)

Just my thoughts

GReaper · 19 Jan 2010, 13:17

Yes, some sort of clippy advisor similar to Travian would go a long way towards helping, but it mustn't be the only solution. I have a feeling that these suggestions could be taken as "ooh, great idea", implemented in the worst possible way in a similar style to the current quest system, someone will claim that it's now been done - yet the game won't be any better for it.

This is just part of the solution. Ideally the game needs to slowly reveal itself to a new user. If you confuse players with so many options they've got absolutely no idea what to do, they're just likely to become confused and leave the game.

As I've mentioned before, just compare it to an MMORPG. If you were given a level 50/60 (whatever is the max level) character with 30 spells or styles which do many different things, you'd probably end up absolutely confused with no idea with what to do. However if you start off as level 1 with just a few abilities, gaining a few more every few levels, you slowly learn parts of the game, become adjusted and slowly realise what each function does and how it relates to the game.

If you had to start off by constructing a power station, which leads onto making a research laboratory, which then allows you to research additional constructions one at a time, then you'd slowly take this information and digest it in manageable pieces. Don't reveal functionality which the user isn't going to have any clue on what to do and isn't going to need.

I'm not disagreeing with your idea, it's certainly needed in the long run. However if you stuck a video or an avatar tutorial system into the game as it stands at the moment, I seriously doubt it would help players that much.

Brody · 19 Jan 2010, 21:38

I've read several suggestions for a tighter manual and perhaps also a tutorial. How feasible are these, and how possible is it to put them into place? Is it a volunteer staff? Are they looking to hire someone to do it? Is it a back burner thing? Are they looking for volunteers?

I have read up on several threads, and some of the complaints of the learning curve of PA are not entirely the fault of the the game. In ANYTHING where skill, knowledge, and organization increase success, if you have bands of ultra-successful people banding together, breaking into that thing will be extremely difficult. Regulating that thing so it can be broken into more easily results in ceaseless complaining. See: the stock market. If you had a swarm of newbies playing the game, then not knowing the nuances of, say, race selection would not seem so heinous, because you wouldn't have a community of 50% or more elites mapping out every detail down to tick and 500 resources. In that environment, a bad race wouldn't be so obviously damning.

Anyone familiar with Super Smash Bros? In the new game, Brawl, they actually installed a God-awful chance to fall over when you run. Obviously the hardcores exploded. PA's audience is largely hardcore at the moment, and opening the game up for newer players will probably require, as many suggested, better manuals and fewer exiling options (hardcores will not like fewer exile options, as it's obviously strategically better to relocate to the most favorable galaxy when reasonable, but newbie hatred is bad for the game). I'm not suggesting a "trip" per se, but we have to remind ourselves that we can elite ourselves right out of PA if we don't do more for the newbies.

What's being done for the manual? Can the community help?

How feasible is a tutorial? How about a "My planetarion speed tutorial" where you play a 30 second tick game with a simulated enemy (not an AI, just a fixed A-to-B incoming wave and defending wave). It can pause to explain details, etc.

I don't know how common it is to ask for community help, but I think before opening it up to the broader community, you'd have to start with a prototype and tweak it.

Munkee · 19 Jan 2010, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GReaper

Don't reveal functionality which the user isn't going to have any clue on what to do and isn't going to need.

Could we have some form of tech tree spin off here?

Also.. As you stated.. why are we not hiding certain things until they become researched/constructed.

For example:

We hide the production page ships until they have been researched, however we do allow them to sit there even if there is no factory to build them. Why ? remove them until both criteria are met.

Even if that is not the "best" example.. i do feel we show far too much information that has **** all benefit to anyone. It should just be step by step and expand further with each movement.

Once again this goes back to the old tech tree ..

Brody · 19 Jan 2010, 22:53

They could maybe gray out the wave tab link until you build an amp, make covert ops missions invisible until agents are hired, etc.

Light · 19 Jan 2010, 23:00

http://pastebin.com/m139d7e9b

problem solved.

Fatrick · 19 Jan 2010, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brody

How feasible is a tutorial? How about a "My planetarion speed tutorial" where you play a 30 second tick game with a simulated enemy (not an AI, just a fixed A-to-B incoming wave and defending wave). It can pause to explain details, etc.

I don't know how common it is to ask for community help, but I think before opening it up to the broader community, you'd have to start with a prototype and tweak it.

This is a bloody good idea. A stand alone minigame wheres there are a few AI planets and where a newbie can sign in and maybe even advance the ticks manually himself until he gets to grips with the basics before being let loose in the main game. Thumbs up!

MrLobster · 20 Jan 2010, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

http://pastebin.com/m139d7e9b

problem solved.

Rather than giving out tech, what about giving out RP/CU (same as the upgrade bonus does).

Mzyxptlk · 20 Jan 2010, 00:41

I ran across this, which, though very much outdated, is an interesting read nonetheless.

GReaper · 20 Jan 2010, 11:34

Why would a new player want to put in the effort of playing a mini game when it doesn't really help them with the main game itself? If the main game guides you through your startup well enough, there shouldn't be any need to have a tutorial speed game. I wouldn't want to spend an hour or two in a tutorial for a game unless it was absolutely necessary.

If you're concerned about the main game being too slow because of research and constructions, I'd personally say that having research time being stuck to the duration of ticks is a relic of the game from years ago.

Ideally the game should guide you through the basics fairly quickly, eg. construct research lab could take just 2-5 minutes if you're a brand new player, with the duration becoming longer and longer with every new construction. This way new players can get through the basics fairly quickly and learn a fair amount of stuff within a couple of hours, instead of initiating a research, a construction, logging out because they're bored and don't have anything to do and never return because the game didn't offer them anything interesting.

It's things like this which shows that Planetarion pioneered the web space game, but failed to adjust where it matters whilst other games and clones improved on it.

Light · 20 Jan 2010, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLobster

Rather than giving out tech, what about giving out RP/CU (same as the upgrade bonus does).

The point is, it gives out the tech they need to play (Basic scans) then shows them how to use them to attack and defend.

Giving out RP and CU does nothing to help the new guy, as you'll have to find instruct them on what to spend them on. This isnt a guide/tutorial/or quest system for active players who want to do there own starting strategy.

MrLobster · 20 Jan 2010, 12:20

Yep Quick to start Long to finish.

Rather than having a 2 minute cycle, each tick your given a total of CU to use. Every con takes increasing amounts.

1st Wave amp = 5 cu
2nd Wave amp = 10 cu
3rd Wave amp = 20 cu
4th Wave amp = 40 cu
5th Wave amp = 80 cu
6th Wave amp = 160 cu
7th Wave amp = 320 cu
8th Wave amp = 640 cu
9th Wave amp = 1280 cu
10th Wave amp = 2560 cu

It maybe that doubling every time might be a little extreme, and perhaps a small increment is needed (say "previous_cu * 0.2").