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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 05:59   #1
Dace
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[Rant] Spitting feathers

My degree is in Genetics.

Anybody who gives credence to Intelligent Design gets short shrift from me.

I.D. is a ****ing moroninc idea.



I thought that was the thing i got most wound up about.

Turns out it isn't.

I was just watching BBC News 24.

They were talking about "Renewables vs Nuclear power".

I think I.D. is moronic but to a certain extent i can understand where they come from*.

I don't have figures to hand but ...

The nuclear defenders were saying that renewable energry is massively subsidised (nuclear energy is subsidised by a stupid amount more ... and thats not even taking into account the long term factor of storing nuclear waste etc) and is more expensive than nuclear enegery.

Illogical arguments PISS ME OFF!



Anyways i just wanted to rant against the stupidity that is nuclear power.



[/rant]
























*the people who believe in it are ****ing stupid religious types who are trying to re-work the world to fit up to their religious model etc
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 11:16   #2
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Re: Spitting feathers

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Originally Posted by Dace
Illogical arguments PISS ME OFF!
However, it is true that nuclear power is some degree cheaper than wind farming/etc, more reliable and less damaging to the countryside in general - as nuclear power is a lot more focused than wind turbines each requiring 100 ton blocks of concrete to be placed in the group.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 16:08   #3
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Re: Spitting feathers

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
However, it is true that nuclear power is some degree cheaper than wind farming/etc, more reliable and less damaging to the countryside in general - as nuclear power is a lot more focused than wind turbines each requiring 100 ton blocks of concrete to be placed in the group.


The UK's entire domestic electricity requirements could be met if every roof was covered in solar panels (or something apparantly).
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 16:20   #4
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Re: Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
The UK's entire domestic electricity requirements could be met if every roof was covered in solar panels (or something apparantly).
And the financial cost / environmental cost / raw materials / energy to make those bajillion solar panels?
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 17:24   #5
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Financially the cost is covered after 15 years.

Environmental / raw material cost wise ... they are talking about putting more pylons down the central spine of Scotland to transfer the hyrdo electric power generated from "ooop north".

I reckon that Solar panels are a very much cheaper method in all cost fronts (even if we have to wait 15 years for the costs to balance out ... after 15 years there would be negligible cost ... just replacement/maintenance.)
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 17:29   #6
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Exclamation Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

I thought this thread would be about chicken ****ers in Glasgow.

I was disapointed.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 17:48   #7
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Re: Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
The UK's entire domestic electricity requirements could be met if every roof was covered in solar panels (or something apparantly).
I'm pretty sure if everyon's roof had a nuclear reactor on top* the electricity requirements of the UK could be met.






*Shut up pedants.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 17:59   #8
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
Financially the cost is covered after 15 years.
Unfortunately the average lifespan of a solar panel is 8 years.

The sun index in Britain makes it pointless here really...
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 18:33   #9
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Re: Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
The UK's entire domestic electricity requirements could be met if every roof was covered in solar panels (or something apparantly).
Which is obviously easier, more reliable and cheaper than using a centralised power source!
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 18:33   #10
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Unfortunately the average lifespan of a solar panel is 8 years.


The two overwhelming advantages of thin film panels is their low embodied energy and the ease and speed at which they can be produced, which is in a roll-to-roll process similar to newsprint. Within three years, a thin film panel will repay its original 'energy debt' (the amount of energy embodied in its production), and the operational lifespan of the new 'UNI-SOLAR' modules is in excess of 20 years.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
The sun index in Britain makes it pointless here really...


Actually it doesn't.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 18:42   #11
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Re: Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Which is obviously easier, more reliable and cheaper than using a centralised power source!


I didnt say that the solar panel option would completely replace the power grid.

I do however think it would vastly reduce the use of the grid.

Each individual "power system" (ie house) would have a storage capability.

It would also be able to provide power BACK INTO the grid (i'm sure that there are some industries which wont be able to cover their electrical demands by solar panelling their roofs so they could get energy off households which aren't using their power ... less power would be used at home during the day anyways).

The main grid would act as a back-up system for the households (on particulary cloudy days ... even then new solar panels are expanding the wavelengths they can pick up on and are performing better even under "bad" conditions), providing energy when their own "power unit" cant supply enough.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 18:42   #12
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

If we didn't have nuclear waste where would all of our super heros come from???

'Cosmic Rays'? phhhh: everyone knows that cosmic rays are just a hippy pipe dream. We need a reliable and constant source of superheros!
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 18:45   #13
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

BTW i personally don't think wind power is really the way to go.

The sites for wind farms are generally on the West Coast and up north (Wales too but ...).

To get the energy from these sites to the centres of population requries stupid amounts of electrical infrastructure.

Tidal power is where it's at.

The coast line is ALL AROUND the country.

As such the distance that the electricity would need to travel to get to everyone is much reduced.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 18:54   #14
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Nuclear power is good enough you hippy faggot.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 19:19   #15
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

nuclear power in the short term is the only solution we have to produce the tons of energy we need.

how do you expect people to convert their houses for solar? The only viable way of doing that would be by forcing them to be installed on the transfer of property as part of a cost of sale.

I heard the other day that corks were a great idea.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 19:40   #16
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Except you're talking about "thin film panels" rather than the normal semiconductor panels.

However, thin-film panels have several significant drawbacks. What they gain in cost savings and flexibility, they lose in efficiency, resulting in the lowest efficiency of any current photovoltaic technology at 5-6%. Thin-film technologies also use silicon with high levels of impurities. This can cause additional drops in efficiency when the panels begin to generate electricity.

I haven't got my university notes with me unfortunately so I am unable to give the figures about solar panels in Britain.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 19:50   #17
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Except you're talking about "thin film panels" rather than the normal semiconductor panels.


Look, you said that the average lifetime of a solar panel was 8 years.

I disagreed and pretty much the first link i found said 20 years (for a "delicate" system).

Now later on in that link it says:

The total energy requirement to produce a PV panel is 1,060 kWh/m2. In Sydney the useable panel output will be 153 kWh/m2/year [0.42 kWh/m2/day], giving an energy payback time (EPBT) for the panel of 6.9 years. After mounting in an open field or on a roof the EPBT will be 11.5 or 8.3 years respectively. These energy payback times are well short of the likely system lifetime of 30 years.



So that's 20 and 30 years.



I appreciate that the energy you get from solar panels in the UK will be less than that that you get in Australia however i believe i covered this already (saying it would take 15 years to pay it back whereas that Australian site says it takes less time).
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 20:19   #18
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
Tidal power is where it's at.

The coast line is ALL AROUND the country.
I live about as far away from the sea as you can get.
Wind is everywhere.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 20:28   #19
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
Wind is everywhere.


Wind is not in appreciable quantities everywhere.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 21:42   #20
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Re: Spitting feathers

sco
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
However, it is true that nuclear power is some degree cheaper than wind farming/etc, more reliable and less damaging to the countryside...
And the Dunreay nuclear power plant is a prime example of this. It's definitley cheaper when you have to pay to clean up all the contamination the power plant has caused to the local area.

The only time I'll support nuclear power is when it's definitely safe, and they said that last time. It works swimmingly on paper, but when they actually try it...

Last edited by Weeks; 16 Oct 2005 at 21:48. Reason: Wrong name of powerplant.
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 21:44   #21
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
Tidal power is where it's at.

The coast line is ALL AROUND the country.

As such the distance that the electricity would need to travel to get to everyone is much reduced.
Tidal power is the wave of the future
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Unread 16 Oct 2005, 21:49   #22
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Re: Spitting feathers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
The UK's entire domestic electricity requirements could be met if every roof was covered in solar panels (or something apparantly).
You'd have a hard time covering my roof in solar panels. (I don't think thatched roofs and electricity mix awfully well.)

Do I get to have a nuclear power plant in my back garden?
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Unread 17 Oct 2005, 08:31   #23
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

I think ID is far more bollocks than the power thing.
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Unread 17 Oct 2005, 14:45   #24
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Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

I'm not opposed to nuclear power. We might as well do something with all that uranium / plutonium / whatever-it-is-that-it's-called that the Canadians / Australians / whoever-else-may-have-some have lying around.
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Unread 17 Oct 2005, 16:10   #25
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Exclamation Re: [Rant] Spitting feathers

Solar power has an enormous advantage over nuclear power in that home solar systems are already relatively affordable (obviously not everyone can afford them, but many people can). So the best way to make the case for solar power is to just install it and show your neighbors all the money you're saving. In my experience, people are fairly receptive to saving money.

I could put solar panels on my roof for less than the price of a new car. I'd order a system today if I thought the numbers added up; but I don't think they do. If someone (preferably someone in my area*) were to show me otherwise, I'd be happy to reconsider. This isn't an option with nuclear power, since I doubt I'll ever have enough money for my own reactor.





*Or at least an area with similar latitude and snowfall
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