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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 17:15   #1
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God botherers

I was watching Passion of the Christ last night and apart from thinking wow that guy can take one hell of a beating it also got me thinking about religion and those that believe.

I like to think there is a god out there although I don't follow any specific religion and despite being a huge believer in evolution and the fact the bible defies all human logic, I even prey sometimes to say thanks for the better things in my life and sometimes ask for strength in times of need, I know my prayers are more then likely going no further then my own head but I find it helps me deal with my feelings and makes me feel better.

Now the point I am trying to make is why do people choose to belive in a specific God or Religion? For me, anytime I have been preached to it has been a case of belive in god and you will spend your afterlife in paradise/heaven, don't belive in God and you are going to hell/limbo and it would feel pretty selfish to take up a religion and start believing just to save your own skin once you have died. I think most religious people I know only subscribe to their religion for fear of hell and not getting into heaven but if there ever was a judgement day and god asked them why do you belive? The fact is none of them really do belive but they are doing it for their own selfish reasons and are frauds so in my opinion would have less chance of getting through the pearly gates then someone who just tries to lead a normal life?

I don't know if this will make any sense but it has been buzzing around in my head so I thought i'd let it out.
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 17:23   #2
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Re: God botherers

I tend to agree. "Believe or else" (or in a milder form "believe and be saved") is not, in my opinion, an acceptable way to promote a religion - although this does happen quite widely with all religions*, and as you have mentioned, can be the primary reason people follow a particular one.

Personally I'm not religious, although I do sometimes wonder about death and tie myself up in mental knots trying to contemplate there being nothing whatsoever - although being a person who places great weight on the scientific view of the world, logically I know that's what awaits.

If I had to choose a religion, it would probably be Bhuddism. Of all the religions I'm aware of, it appears to the most enlightened, the least self-serving, and the most "morally sound".



*Especially extremist takes on a particular religion. Please note, I'm not aiming this at Muslims. There are just as many Christian extremists, who are just as (if not more) worrying in their tendancy to froth at the mouth while preaching firey death.
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 17:36   #3
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Re: God botherers

As with most ideas you can split the people who profess belief in them into two useful categories. Those who have examined their beliefs and attempted to justify them and those who haven't. The number of people who would declare themselves as christian on a census sheet and yet come so laughably far from actually being christian that they might as well declare themselves Zoroastrians is ridiculous in modern Europe. I would imagine this makes up a far greater percentage of religious people than those who believe for the reason of getting into heaven once it reaches judgement day. You also have the dangerous minority who believe because they're freaking lunatics, and the rather less dangerous minority who believe because they find it comforting but usually have other justifications for the beliefs they hold that they ascribe to christianity anyways.

Usually when you're a child shitty teachers and equally shitty priests use the extremely shitty argumentum ad baculum as the only way of convincing you to believe in god. Personally I find this to be due to the fact that no argument for believing in god beyond believe if it makes you feel better about yourself or act in the manner you'd prefer to act in is of any value whatsoever.
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 17:37   #4
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
If I had to choose a religion, it would probably be Bhuddism. Of all the religions I'm aware of, it appears to the most enlightened, the least self-serving, and the most "morally sound".
Go live in a tree.
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 17:50   #5
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Nowadays people believe in the Invisible Hand and the 'market'
Don't forget society my friend!
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 18:19   #6
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSH
Now the point I am trying to make is why do people choose to belive in a specific God or Religion?
Because Catholicism is and Deism is boring.
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 19:08   #7
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Don't be silly no one believes in society.
Jesus did. We sure showed him when we crucified him though
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 19:24   #8
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Don't forget society my friend!
There is no such thing as society.

How many times did Britain vote Thatcher into goverment?
And then they complain about anti-social behaviour afterwards!
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 19:25   #9
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
There is no such thing as society.

How many times did Britain vote Thatcher into goverment?
And then they complain about anti-social behaviour afterwards!
What the hell is anti-social behaviour
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Unread 13 Dec 2005, 19:41   #10
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Re: God botherers

Ah, I thought it was when we all got together and went to church and voted in mindless drones as our politicians and hanged black people.
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 00:48   #11
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Re: God botherers

I don't think you lot (especially the first poster) know many religious people, or at least not the ones I know.

And I don't think logic and rationale are purely atheistic concepts, either.
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 00:50   #12
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
I don't think you lot (especially the first poster) know many religious people, or at least not the ones I know.

And I don't think logic and rationale are purely atheistic concepts, either.
They're naturalistic concepts as opposed to metaphysical concepts.
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 00:55   #13
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
There is no such thing as society.

How many times did Britain vote Thatcher into goverment?
And then they complain about anti-social behaviour afterwards!
anti social behaviour is just the latest name for the youth subcultures that older people hate which have been going on since the 50s. Most people don't accept this though, it has absolutely nothing to do with Thatcher's statement, you have taken both it and all the posts in this thread utterly out of context.

Damn commies
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 02:06   #14
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
I don't think you lot (especially the first poster) know many religious people, or at least not the ones I know.

And I don't think logic and rationale are purely atheistic concepts, either.
A few of my family are Jehovah's witnesses and Christians, I have worked in a mainly Muslim environment for several years and I went out with a seek girl for 3 years.
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 11:14   #15
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSH
I went out with a seek girl for 3 years.
I hear they have dogs that do that now.






(It's sikh).
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 13:03   #16
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
anti social behaviour is just the latest name for the youth subcultures that older people hate which have been going on since the 50s.
Sometimes. Sometimes it's a description of people just being wankers. We used to have an 'Anti Social Behaviour Team' where I work (they eventually changed their name) and some of the things they dealt with were indeed stupid (e.g. relatively harmless drug dealing in a car park, some kids hanging around in a stairwell not actually doing anything). However, other things they dubbed as anti-social behaviour were pretty bad (e.g. racial harrassment, someone beating up a retarded kid for a laugh, etc). Other things are borderline (e.g. noise).

It's unclear whether these (bad) things are actually getting worse but the perception often is that it is. It certainly seems that people are more worried about anti-social behaviour, and you've got to wonder why that is. Groups have kids have always hung around being bored, but once upon a time (when family sizes were larger, people lived near each other, when there was less conspicuous wealth, people looked out for each other a bit more possibly) people probably drew comfort from their social bonds. Perhaps (and I have no evidence for this) once upon a time people wouldn't (say) mug an old woman as regularly because you would be shunned (if not physically beaten) by your neighbourhood. Now no-one knows anyone, so who cares?

But anyway just because the moronic press sensationalise something (e.g. "happy slapping" to take a particularly ridiculous example) doesn't mean it's not real (or annoying when it happens).
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 14:16   #17
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
(It's sikh).
Now you see why we are no longer going out.
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 15:51   #18
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Re: God botherers

Anti-social behaviour means relatively little until you talk to old people. They hate it.
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 17:02   #19
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Anti-social behaviour means relatively little until you talk to old people. They hate it.
My interpretation of anti-social behaviour is people knocking on my door telling me to sort my garden out or turn my music down!
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 21:16   #20
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Re: God botherers

I asked God yesterday what he/she thought of religion. The answer was that whenever a load of people gather to worship, regardless of who or what they worship, God comes along to have a look-see. Basically it's because a lot of people have got religion on it's head, and God knows who they're trying to talk to. But ultimately, I think what he/she was trying to tell me is that you don't need religion in your life. You don't even need faith.
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Unread 14 Dec 2005, 22:30   #21
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Re: God botherers

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
There is no such thing as society.

How many times did Britain vote Thatcher into goverment?
And then they complain about anti-social behaviour afterwards!
Why must everyone misquote her on that?!

Full quote:

"[People constantly requesting government intervention] are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."


I assume you comprehend the difference.
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