What More?

[Forest]

Kila,
I would keep them there stones away from your glass house if I was you.

The reps you leave, you have no right to discuss what people shouldnt be doing.

[Barrow|Pony]

lokken - end this.

[Forest]

Anyone would think you were following me around Barrow

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

lokken - end this.

I'll be happy to, but not by closing the thread.

I for one am pretty concerned at users that haven't got the concept of the reputation function. People seem to use it in a way to say 'I disagree' rather than commenting about whether they thought a post was good or bad; an example was a few months ago when I had a pretty good argument with mazzelaar, who while I utterly disagreed with him, I thought he was making excellent posts because he argued his position. We enjoyed the discussion so much, I pos repped him, he pos repped me.

On top of that, I think reputation should be used to judge a post stand alone. There are posters who used to be terrible, but aren't any more, or sometimes there are terrible posters who actually now and again DO make excellent points worthy of posrep.

To me reputation is all about quality of the post and whether you felt it contributed to the discussion, rather as to whether you agreed or disagreed with it. If think an argument is stupid, don't neg rep, say why it's stupid. If there wasn't an argument and just plain all out flames and trolls, neg rep it.

[LEFF|pm]

Tbh your entire stance towards this depends on what you want to use AD for. When I used it frequently during the rounds I played as FAnG HC I used it as discussion board, to justify and defend our actions or to make accusations against other alliances. Whenever I posted something I meant what I wrote and at any time I only wrote down what I really believed was true.

Fury, or nowadays 1up used or use it completly differently. (although there always have been exceptions). When Syd, Focht, Zhil, etc posted something, they wanted to manipulate the public opinion for their own benefits.
I´m not saying the one thing is good or the other thing is bad though.
When you see these boards as part of the actual game, its absolutly justifiable to lie, to misrepresent or to ignore certain things to make others believe in what you want them to believe.

However, for me personally it takes away something. I always wanted to point something out. Its hard enough to argue with someone on the boards if he or she is convinced that you are wrong, but if both sides know the truth already I feel the masquerade on the ad boards pretty much a waste - its not the arguements that make truth or lies, its the number of people that back up a certain statement.

Apart from that I`m just really bad at manipulating people. I couldnt even do it if I wanted to, so I just dont bother

[bwtmc]

I've tended to try and find a compromise. While i've found it important to do the best for any alliances I've been in, I think a lot of us on the boards have come to see that without any meaningful discussion of alliances etc here, we don't really have much of a game. That's obviously become more of an issue as interest in the game's development itself has:

[wakey]

In my eyes AD's biggest problem is the AD community (actually you can open it wider to include all the forums but AD is probably where its most obvious)

Over time people will always wander away from any kind of community as peoples interests and circumstances change. Now this isn't unnecessarily a bad things in fact it can be revitalising in the same way that a fire can be good for nature. The problem occurs however when 'regrowth' doesn't happen, if new faces don't replace the old faces the community shrinks and becomes stale and that's what's happened here.

Now you could say that its simply a product of the game not attracting new people but the simple fact is only a tiny fraction of the player base post here, the numbers even smaller than the amount who use IRC so there's more than enough fresh blood to tap. However the forums cant because its not open to new people. The community often treats those who are new or those who don't have an 'in' alliance with contempt and it ridicules them. We also have groups such as '1up brigade' where if one of them doesn't agree with what your saying your come under a 'group; attack on you and then we have people along the lines of KJ who if the 20th alliance posted a thread on issues lower down will manage to turn it into a debate about them and their alliance.

I just think as a whole AD posters can be alot more open and inviting to new posters. If they post badly then fine tell them but everyone here is intelligent enough to have free thought and doesn't need to be part of a mob culture and we don't need to hijack every thread to talk about ourselves. If you have something to add that's useful and on topic then do so, otherwise stay out of the discussion don't derail it into something else.

[MotoX]

An answer to the original topic.


I couldn’t agree more, we definitely could do with more posters in here….
So why are the new additions so poor?

For a moment consider yourself as a new PA player and then start to read PA forums,
what meets the eye?


Well, loads of bad talking to say the least – major personal attacks etc.
Yes, the moderators do some heavy work to get rid/ban most of the “criminals”
(even myself)

Between “old” gamers the heavy slandering should have more acceptance no doubt there and many post only for the sake to get back on someone = entertainment/funny/politics etc.

The thing that bugs me tough is when new (yes there is some) comes to post/makes a new thread and that person gets the same treatment as the rest….he/she runs faster then lightning and will never ever post again – I know I would - because people can/have been very “bad” to
new posters to say the least….


Another flaw is that alliances tells or orders their members not to post in Forum…….ever.
That one we have to take on a road Tripp with the different HC:s

[lokken]

I am someone who likes to focus on the positive.

Despite the reduction in posting and playerbase, the quality of discussion has definitely risen, and if you look at other gaming forums (EVE, WoW, plan etia), we've got a far more rational discussion, partly due to the userbase and partly because we have mods who care about the state of the game and want to see good argument and discussion without impeding freedom of speech too much.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by MotoX

Another flaw is that alliances tells or orders their members not to post in Forum…….ever.

This is Vision, LCH and xVx policy.

As a former founder member of Vision an ex member of LCH and a Current member of xVx, I always have chose to ignore these instructions.

Often at my peril, but I post for fun, not to make any particular point (sometimes in provocation just to incite some hatred) which I find amusing but the mods ban me for.

So maybe no more of it?



Hatred is probably too strong a word, more "incite some reaction"

[The Real Arfy]

Originally Posted by wakey

We also have groups such as '1up brigade' where if one of them doesn't agree with what your saying your come under a 'group; attack on you

This is a myth. Its not true at all. Sure, in 1up we have a pretty similar opinions on what is drivel, what is a crap post and what needs to be shot down. There is no such thing, as much as you'd love there to be, as a 1up brigade. Sure, you are more likely to get matching responses from those who may tag 1up, or proud to have been, but that is exactly why we are friends and in an alliance together. We do have alot in common.

I don't think at all that 1up is out to shoot people down, although the channel #mushrooms.vs.AD might have been a mistake...

[Illuvatar]

I guess its the lack of players and alliances which is the problem in general here.
2k Players every round and fresh blood rarely coming...instead we get old pa veterans who stay for 1-2 rounds and disappear again. Its clear that there aint much talking on ad compared to the facts.

More Initiative please, and more news.

Is PAN coming - yes or no?
Is there any chance to tweak the prize for pa a bit to give other tick games a challenge and regain players?
Hows the future of pa looking atm?

Thats sth which is really interesting and which is the main point for the lack of AD posts.

[Cochese]

AD is more inviting now than it has probably ever been in it's history.

MotoX has a good point about alliances' telling their members not to post here, or in certain threads, etc...which unfortunately, doesn't help the level of interraction here.

They should be encouraging people to get involved here--just to be careful about how they act, and what they say.

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by wakey

In my eyes AD's biggest problem is the AD community (actually you can open it wider to include all the forums but AD is probably where its most obvious)

"Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?"

- Bertolt Brecht

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by Cochese

They should be encouraging people to get involved here--just to be careful about how they act, and what they say.

Today the playerbase just... A lot of members posting can actually inflict upon you, as high command posting can easily backfire. Very few members have the dedication, loyalty, and verbal talent to hand out opinions here without having it slap back at your face.

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Today the playerbase just... A lot of members posting can actually inflict upon you, as high command posting can easily backfire.

I'm well aware of this, believe me. Perhaps if people would lurk first, they would "get it".

Very few members have the dedication, loyalty, and verbal talent to hand out opinions here without having it slap back at your face.

Not sure about that, but I see where you're coming from.

Again, if people had encouragement and some example(s) set, they'd probably manage to participate without making an ass of themselves (or their alliance).

[Stoom]

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Today the playerbase just... A lot of members posting can actually inflict upon you, as high command posting can easily backfire. Very few members have the dedication, loyalty, and verbal talent to hand out opinions here without having it slap back at your face.

I feel so elite!

[Lei~]

I havent heard yet that VsN dont allow posting by their members.
But the topics on here often dont encourage me to post anything, as theres really not that much interesting stuff going on.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by wakey

...and then we have people along the lines of KJ who if the 20th alliance posted a thread on issues lower down will manage to turn it into a debate about them and their alliance.

I think it's fairly unfair to assume I post with the purpose to turn an arguement into something about me or my alliance. I know you didn't literally said that but it's obvious (to me) that you pointed towards that direction.

Fact is, if a person posts alot (and we can assume I do) then it's only natural that he/she replies in alot of different threads. If he/she then causes an arguement in that thread then it easily overtakes the thread. alot of posters do this and yes ... those that post more will obvious do it more.

Becides, Wakey ... let's not exaggerate ... Unless you post about me or my alliance, I probably won't bother replying (unless it's an interesting topic) and I think this goes for most posters aswell.

To Lokken: If you want pple to rep others on whether a post contributes to a thread or not, then there is something fundamentally wrong with the setup of reputation.

e.g. if you make 10 louzy posts in which you only insult others, we can only neg rep 1 of those 10 posts, and then we either have to wait a while or give rep to other pple before we can rep the other posts you made.
Currently, reputation is based on a PERSON, not on a POST. Once you repped a person, you can't rep him anymore.

the system encourages you to rep other pple (neg or poss) so it's only logical that pple will spread out random rep, which in the end is worthless as it screws over the entire purpose of the reputation system. Adding that pple can rep annonymous only adds to this problem.

I agree with your reasoning behind giving reputation, but sadly the setup of the current reputation system doesn't really make much sence.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Lei~

I havent heard yet that VsN dont allow posting by their members.
But the topics on here often dont encourage me to post anything, as theres really not that much interesting stuff going on.

Judge meant the "earlier" VsN where we had such a policy.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

I think it's fairly unfair to assume I post with the purpose to turn an arguement into something about me or my alliance. I know you didn't literally said that but it's obvious (to me) that you pointed towards that direction.

Fact is, if a person posts alot (and we can assume I do) then it's only natural that he/she replies in alot of different threads. If he/she then causes an arguement in that thread then it easily overtakes the thread. alot of posters do this and yes ... those that post more will obvious do it more.

Becides, Wakey ... let's not exaggerate ... Unless you post about me or my alliance, I probably won't bother replying (unless it's an interesting topic) and I think this goes for most posters aswell..

The thing is KJ while you’re not the only one who does it and sometimes when you do it your ‘provoked’ by someone else making a comment about angels or yourself you are the most frequent offender that I see and your normally the catalyst for it becoming an “Angels vs ? “ thread.

Perhaps your simply just a victim to the fact that your one person fighting against a number, for example a lot of your infringements came against 1up members in the past and they were spreading their dragging the thread off topic between them while you were on your own but its left you as being the poster boy for the “twist every thread into a discussion about the two alliances who can shout the loudest” trend we see here.

And again your not the only person, there was a number of people last round for example who twisted a thread about the most impressive none top10 alliances last round into a discussion about the likes of Subh which was clearly off topic

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by wakey

The thing is KJ while you’re not the only one who does it and sometimes when you do it your ‘provoked’ by someone else making a comment about angels or yourself you are the most frequent offender that I see and your normally the catalyst for it becoming an “Angels vs ? “ thread.

Well, it depends on how you want to approach this. If I get provoked and I reply on it, do I am the catalyst for it to become a thread about me or my alliance?

And using the word "offender" is rather harsh, you make it sound like it's a terrible thing to do.

And on the 'Kj vs 1up poster', I can only say that I get along great with 90% of the 1up posters on AD. It are just a few with who I generally disagree and it's more a "coïncidence" that they happen to be or happened to be 1up really.

And Wakey, this is AD after all. The purpose of this board is to discuss alliance related topics. there will always be 'dominant' posters who can turn an entire discussion into another direction by making a single post. there is very little you or anyone can do about it.

[wakey]

By catalyst I just mean that while they make the initial ‘trolling’ comment you’re the one who then responds. You’re basically the one who provides the spark to kick it all off in a lot of the cases.

And I mentioned 1up just because they are the alliance who I can pinpoint being involved in some these situations. There have been others that you have been involved with that weren’t 1up, and there have been situations similar that haven’t involved you or 1up members. Just off the top of my head both you and 1up are the examples that jump out and most memorable.

And I know this is AD and it’s supposed to be about discussing alliances and the very nature means some alliances will dominate no matter what is done. But this threads somewhat about how we can as a community make this place better and to do that we have to discuss some issues that often derail discussions. Even if it just makes some people think “I sometimes do that” on any of the issues raised on this thread by anyone then its doing some good as it makes people more self aware of their posting habits and hopefully will make them more responsible posters and even a slight improvement overall is better than no improvement

[_Kila_]

Originally Posted by lokken

Despite the reduction in posting and playerbase, the quality of discussion has definitely risen, and if you look at other gaming forums (EVE, WoW, plan etia), we've got a far more rational discussion,

Its because half the stuff on those forums is either inane MaxMilliaN style drivel or just people trolling the forum for fun as they know that there aren't any consequences (I'm guilty of this, if I'm ever bored I go onto some WoW forum and troll people to annoy them). Whereas here, we have mods who are involved in discussions etc and are actively locking threads, deleting posts and banning idiots.