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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 13:05   #1
Phil M
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Time for a PA team overhaul?

Does anyone else feel like it's time for a new Planetarion Team? There are quite a few reasons, I'm sure some of you will agree with me.

Positions doing nothing. Marv is Marketing Manager, is this game actually being marketed? What has he done to actually promote the game? Player numbers continue to dwindle and I haven't seen any promotion efforts. Kal is Head of Strategy, is this really a position or was he just given a title after he quit PA team earlier this year only to return a few months later? Kloopy is software and servers manager after being a developer, was this just another position just to keep him in PA team after he stopped coding?

Broken Promises. PA Next seems to be dead, only minor tweaks are being made to the current game. The game needs an overhaul, instead PA team are getting so bogged down with creating new rules instead of concentrating on improvements. The fact that so many of the PA team positions are merely status symbols is probably the main cause of this, they should be the ones putting in effort instead of pretending that they're running the game.

PA team and other staff appear quite rude. There is no respect towards any of the players, they always use the excuse that they don't get paid. Sorry if you aren't one of the rude members of the team, however certain senior staff are not very pleasant to deal with. If you're not having fun in your position then you shouldn't be doing your job, let someone else who might enjoy doing it have a chance.

After looking at the job titles ( http://www.planetarion.com/Job-Titles.png ) it appears that apart from Biffy being the jolt representative there is no real leadership. It is hardly suprising that there is no real direction to the future of Planetarion when there is nobody ultimately responsible for the game.

Does anyone else feel that PA team needs an overhaul?
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 13:20   #2
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Well seeing as they aren't paid and do whatever they do voluntarily you might find it hard to replace them. Although if they aren't performing as you say they are then maybe people should sign up and offer to take their places...
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 13:22   #3
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

I don't see a lot of the stuff you post here in the same way.

If you talk to PA team members you get good responces (or is it cos I talk to them with respect too ? )

And best of all, if you don't like the way they work apply for a job
And tbh I got the feeling you made a new forums account just to post this, if you are so sure of what your saying why not post under your normal account ?

If this is really your first post, I didn't say above
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 13:31   #4
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

I have to agree with Ace. I've never had a bad experience talking to PA team, especially Appocomaster. He's always courteous and respectful and will hear you out, and from the most part when I've talked to him he will usually act on it, and do what he says.

I do think that in order to get respect you have to be willing to give it as well. As I said in the other thread, you should be calm when you're trying to get something done, and be polite even if you're faking being polite. You'll accomplish a lot more with a good atttitude than a bad one.
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 14:07   #5
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Corteous and respectful <> Helpful

I can tell you to f**k off with very kind words. Doesn't change the fact your problem hasn't been taken care of.
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 14:25   #6
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Perhaps you can take suggestions you have to the suggestion forum... I'm sure that whatever suggestions you make will be taken into consideration and implemented if possible.
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 14:49   #7
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace

And best of all, if you don't like the way they work apply for a job
And tbh I got the feeling you made a new forums account just to post this, if you are so sure of what your saying why not post under your normal account ?

If this is really your first post, I didn't say above
a) he got his opinion on that and he is right in a few points imho.
b) you don't need to be PA-Team yourself to name some of the issues atm.
c) how can you charge him that he created a new forum account just to post this - thats so lame.

imho he is right in a few points and this should be considered regardless if he just signed up or not.
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 14:53   #8
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

I'd like to start by oddly thanking Phil M for his feedback. I think its clear at least that we are not doing a good job of communicating what individuals actually do etc.

I agree that we are perhaps getting bogged down in rules and policy at the moment, however I think theese are things that do actually need sorting out to ensure consitency in the future. Once they are sorted though it should require minimal effort to maintain them, so in a way this is a one time effort.

Yes unfortunatly PA:N is pretty much dead. As at the time I was Project Manager I have to take the ultimate responsibility for this. Basically we were too ambitious with the project and too reliant on a single person for coding (Kloopy, who unfortunatly had to pull back from a lot of his PA work for personal reasons.)

However, I think its clear that before we embark any any projects similar to PA:N in the future we need to make damn sure we know what we want with the game etc and what is going to make Jolt money from the game.

I agree there have been issues with staff rudeness and actions are being taken to address this - in fact a new department is being trialed within the PA teams structure to deal with the whole issue of people and organisation - though mainly form an internal point of view. If our staff are happier with us they are more likely to show that happiness to the outside world.

I think most of PATeam probably agrees that PATeam needs some kind of overhaul, however we also believe that needs to be linked to a vision we decide on for the game. For example there is no use appointing a leader if that leader ends up not agreeing with the long term vision etc.

Finally I'll address the comments about my Strategy role. I have been doing some inital work to try and address where we are at the moment, and what the game is all about to its current players. The next step in this will hopefully be some semi-public brain storming sessions to try and start to see a wayforward for the game. I would add though that dispite this round having a low number of players, its by no means the worsed round in recent history and we are confident of finishing the year on a high with round 19.
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 14:58   #9
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil M

Does anyone else feel that PA team needs an overhaul?
I think the problem is more like: Since no-one volunteers to do PA jobs, the PA team needs to work with what it gets, thus the quality of the people being in the PA team is lower than we want.

Similarity to RL situation: You are in charge of assigning a doctor job in hill-billy country where no-one wants to move to be doctor. So when you finally get someone who wants the job, he's hired without any much real effort going into finding out if he's the right or the wrong person for the job.

There is alot of people out there who in my eyes are great PA team prospects, but most of them have allready gotten burnt by Jolt or dont want to have anything to do with the ridiculus NDA's they have to sign to do the job.

You can work without leadership if all your workers know what their jobs are, what is expected of them, and also have an initative of their own. But if your workers lack that initiative, you might aswell just go down to the unemployment office and hire a) a good leader b) more independent staffers.
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 16:26   #10
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antigone
a) he got his opinion on that and he is right in a few points imho.
b) you don't need to be PA-Team yourself to name some of the issues atm.
c) how can you charge him that he created a new forum account just to post this - thats so lame.

imho he is right in a few points and this should be considered regardless if he just signed up or not.

A) Ofc hes entitled to his own opinion, doesn't mean I have to agree with him.
B) naming stuff is easy, if you want to change stuff then apply.
C) Reading the stuff he posts and the way he posts doesn't give me the feeling it's his first post here, but like I said if I'm wrong i'm wrong (and not lame )

I'm not saying hes totally wrong just that I don't agree with a lot he posts, think that was still allowed Antigone
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 17:32   #11
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
However, I think its clear that before we embark any any projects similar to PA:N in the future we need to make damn sure we know what we want with the game etc and what is going to make Jolt money from the game.
Hahaha, sorry, i can't help it but i just have to laugh at this. Since when is it the responsibilty for volunteers to make money for a company that doesn't give a **** about the product anyway. I think its far more important to create a good game first and then think about how you can translate that success to money, but i suppose Jolt is just here to milk the cow dry and will block anything that doesn't guarantee them immediate revenues (do they actually still have a living representative here?).

The main problem is basicly as Kal pointed out, that in the current team there is basicly no one that can get something done by him/herself. Everytime you ask about some development stuff you hear "have to wait for person x,y or z to do his part before i can say if we can even manage it". In the past with Spinner & Co there was/were (a) coder(s) in charge who simply built the game as (t)he(y) liked it, it wasn't always a succes, but atleast they got things done and had a vision of what it was meant to become. This is currently non-existant it seems.

And eventhough things certainly ain't looking good, you do have to credit every single person involved in PaTeam for the spare time they sacrifice for this game, only to try and help you have ur gaming experience. Free coders that can actually spend any notable time are extremely rare, specially for games that are p2p. How many ppl would offer to build something for free so that someone else can make money from it, i rather build my own game instead. And this is the most important thing that needs to be solved. Without decent coding facilities (design & coders) you can have all the ideas you want, but it will never ever get done.
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 17:42   #12
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

I don't think we should "whine" too much to be honest. Compare it to the earlier rounds. Sure, you had more fun playing back then, but there were only a handful of people maintaining the game. I'd say we have more 'educated' and skilled people doing the development now than we had back then. The game didn't go from 180k planets to 3k planets just because of p2p, races or whatever, but also because people go tired of playing PA, just as they do in any other game over time.

PA was a "hit" back in the days. It was innovative and something special. Now it's old and there's tons of browser-games such as PA on the net.
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Unread 15 Aug 2006, 17:50   #13
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Although the post appears to be mostly flamebait, it does show that Planetarion needs new developers.
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Unread 16 Aug 2006, 13:08   #14
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

I hate this whole “Jolt Don’t cares, Jolt are just trying to bleed the game dry” argument. Jolts are a business and as a business they would obviously like PA to have more player as it means more income for them. However unlike the players Jolt are realistic and know that its not just a money issue. PA is a game that lives and dies on its community and the community as it is atm is as much as a cancer on the game as it is an asset and throwing money into coders and marketing isn’t going to change much as there’s a vocal; minority in this community whom continually undermine any attempt to get new blood into this community and this would make invested money a waste which will basically never be recovered

I mean lets be honest here, you come into enough money to hire a coder or two and to run a good marketing campaign, would you invest it into pa? I know I wouldn’t and I doubt many people here realistically would. So why are we expecting Jolt to throw money at this community when it refuses to look in the mirror and see the part they are playing in killing this game and making an effort to change things for the better.

We need to stop using Jolt as a scapegoat so we can bury our heads in the sand and start focusing on things we can change and try and give Jolt a reason to invest in it by showing them we have a community that open to new people and isn’t just going to scare new people away. Ofc it may not persuade them that’s its viable still but it will atleast make those arguing for more investment (ie PAteam) more to work with
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Unread 16 Aug 2006, 13:12   #15
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I hate this whole “Jolt Don’t cares, Jolt are just trying to bleed the game dry”
I think most players belive this since Jolt takes so little interest in the comments being discussed here and the discussions we have here about game development. If we started to see Biffy or others from Jolt play a more active part in the game development or atleast comment on some of the issues maybe people will actually see that Jolt is interested in the game.

Question is: are they?
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Unread 16 Aug 2006, 14:35   #16
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I think most players belive this since Jolt takes so little interest in the comments being discussed here and the discussions we have here about game development. If we started to see Biffy or others from Jolt play a more active part in the game development or atleast comment on some of the issues maybe people will actually see that Jolt is interested in the game.

Question is: are they?
Personally I view PATeam as a part of Jolt - we are in essence employees of Jolt (though of course not paid). Biffy does read the forums, and occasionally comments but on the whole is happy to allow PATeam to run the game and deal with events.
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Unread 16 Aug 2006, 14:47   #17
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Personally I view PATeam as a part of Jolt - we are in essence employees of Jolt (though of course not paid). Biffy does read the forums, and occasionally comments but on the whole is happy to allow PATeam to run the game and deal with events.
you are doing volontair work for free if that makes you guys employees you gotta be a total retard m8,

biffy as the gameowners representant here should be more active here as he is the guy who should make the calls not a bunch of freebees.

but after his glorious campain vs kiddieporn he crawled back under the rock he comes from and went silent

sort the issues of the game now instead of just talk about it, thats a chick thing and dont work
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Unread 16 Aug 2006, 14:50   #18
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

I think PA team just needs a good nights sleep.

Can't expect everyone to have a macdonalds smile 24 hours a day btw ppl just because its a 24 hour game you cant please everyone with such a small free running team.

Ppl who say "my company wouldnt do this that or the other with customer services etc...." is bullshit tbh. Human's are *uckers no matter who they work for, just some are less busy than others to care about saying *uck off and gimme 5 mins to scratch my nuts after the 50 other customers i just had bitching at me for something that isnt my fault.

Btw never had a problem with PA team just few minor problems in #support with getting an answer but as I learnt on you only get out of a person what you give them so dont give them shit otherwise you will be covered in it when apologising.

What round is it?
PA still running ?
Ppl still moaning ?
All is good.
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Unread 16 Aug 2006, 14:53   #19
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
you are doing volontair work for free if that makes you guys employees you gotta be a total retard m8,

biffy as the gameowners representant here should be more active here as he is the guy who should make the calls not a bunch of freebees.

but after his glorious campain vs kiddieporn he crawled back under the rock he comes from and went silent

sort the issues of the game now instead of just talk about it, thats a chick thing and dont work

Abuse it not allowed in forums which is a shame because i would love to say what you are.

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Unread 16 Aug 2006, 17:09   #20
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I mean lets be honest here, you come into enough money to hire a coder or two and to run a good marketing campaign, would you invest it into pa? I know I wouldn’t and I doubt many people here realistically would. So why are we expecting Jolt to throw money at this community when it refuses to look in the mirror and see the part they are playing in killing this game and making an effort to change things for the better.
You are comparing to completely different things. Do you seriously expect this game to suddenly have a massive increase in the player base if "all the evil ppl" in this community suddenly turn nice. Just to note though, the community is great, apart from maybe a few rotten apples here and there, you're a bit short sighted when it comes to that. I know there are plenty of 'newb'-friendly players out there. The problem is that for alot of players its to time consuming to help new players, and the game mechanics don't 'force' them either (exile them ftw \o/). Although i personally enjoy (and always am) helping newbs find their way(s), i know there are alot of ppl who would if they really had to, but won't if there is another way. And currently its alot 'easier' to exile newbs than to spend alot of spare time helping them out.

The problem is and always has been the game and the resources coming with it. This can be blamed on Jolt as they are the owner and its only logical to assume that an owner would want his game to be the best it can be (without costing to much ofc). It isn't a strange thing for the community to expect the owner to supply the game with decent development resources (a coder). I know Jolt said they would like the game to be maintained by the commuity which plays it, and that is ofc brilliant as it won't cost them a penny, apart from the hosting/bandwidth. A simple fact is that decent coding resources, which is a must if you want the game to actually go somewhere, cost money.

Also the lack of an appointed leader (either by Jolt or PaTeam/community) who takes the ultimate role as creator is a problem, as it means desicions are hard to make (democracy for the win ). Which basicly brings it back to the fact there is no longterm vision for the game, which is a huge problem.

On another note, if this game really wants to survive it will need a hell of alot more strategising. As what pa currently offers is also available in many RPG games (online) and they tend to be more fun to play. Some ideas can be found here. The best thing this game needs is to have several ways to get to the top, by that opening up for different types of player (economics, military minded ones etc).
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Unread 16 Aug 2006, 17:35   #21
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

theres a reason why pateam is averse to electing a single leader again, Remember mrbrick?
he took on far too much responsibility and was just unable to cope. When he inevitably went completely inactive the entire team ground to a halt since he was at the centre of everything.

they dont want that to happen again, hence why its spread out

how spinner coped, i have no idea. The guy just seems to take anything thrown at him and keeps on ticking
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Unread 17 Aug 2006, 00:49   #22
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

What happened to the huge overhaul PA that weve been expecting for the last two rounds?
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Unread 17 Aug 2006, 03:08   #23
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

have u really been expecting it that long?

wow

thats like a 16 y old still believing in santa.

how cute <3
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 17 Aug 2006, 06:07   #24
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Re: Time for a PA team overhaul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
thats like a 16 y old still believing in santa.
**** off! I'm 21 and Santa exists!
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