more protectionism

[wu_trax]

yes, Mr. Bush that was exactly the right thing to do. just make some quotations, that is exactly the way how free trade works. never ever go to the wto if there is any problem, just do something on your own, because you are the most powerful man in the world and others cant do a shit, no matter what you decide.
i also like to emphasize that its quite a good policy to annoy the whole world at once. its not like the chinese could stop paying your budget-deficit (and by doing that keep intrest-rates low), could they?


oh, well, to be honest, i dont give a damn if overweight american chicks wear chinese bras or not. i just wanted to post something.

[SilverSmoke]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

i just wanted to post something.

[laputa]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

i also like to emphasize that its quite a good policy to annoy the whole world at once. its not like the chinese could stop paying your budget-deficit (and by doing that keep intrest-rates low), could they?

What a load of econ 101 crap :/

[ChubbyChecker]

When you comment on something it's generally a good idea to provide a link to it

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker

When you comment on something it's generally a good idea to provide a link to it

there

[wu_trax]

noone seems to give a damn

[Bloomers III]

nobody should care about those god damn communists, or the chinese

[Marilyn Manson]

So, Miss Johnson returned to her typing and dreamed her little dreamy dreams, unaware as she was of the cruel trick fate had in store for her. For Miss Johnson was about to fall victim to the dreaded international Chinese Communist Conspiracy. Yes, these fanatical fiends under the leadership of the so-called Mao Tse-tung, had caught Miss Johnson off guard for one brief but fatal moment and destroyed her. Just as they are ready to do anytime to free men anywhere who waver in their defence of democracy.

[Weeks]

The Chinese will be in charge of the WORLD soon.

[Phil^]

at the rate their economys growing, the us best be treading lightly

[ChubbyChecker]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

noone seems to give a damn

It's not that nobody cares, we just all agree that Bush is acting like a monkey as per usual, so there's not much to discuss.

[Dante Hicks]

There's no Americans here to defend the action. The only pro-American (sorry, I don't know a better way of putting this) is Tact, and he's a libertarian (generally) so I doubt he'll be defending this antyime soon.

So what do you want, dozens of posts saying "Yeah, me too!"?

[Tactitus]

Obligitory 'protectionism sucks' me-too post so wu can get his elusive Universal GD Agreement merit badge.

[wu_trax]

texan isnt here anymore is he?
i could defend the whole thing on my own, but i already talk enough to myself :/

[JonnyBGood]

If it helps I can post that america is great and you're all just jealous because we had to come and rescue your asses in WWII and WWI and french military victories is stupid because we all know the french always lose lol and 600,000 of them didn't die at verdun for their country and napoleon never conquered most of Europe and Charlemagne was actually American and you should go post on a white nationalist forum like jonny

[Marilyn Manson]

Charlemagne came from Hull.

[wu_trax]

i once heared the theory that he was nothing but a fake of the catholic church.

[Intrepid00]

Free Trade will only work when goverments stop subdivising markets. Kind of goes agaisnts the 'leave them be' ideal of business.

[Azof]

I'm going to offer myself as cannon fodder by pointing out that China is hardly engaging in free trade itself... the US is simply tightening up access to its markets to mirror China. (a la The Bear and the Dragon) And give me a break, it will affect less than 5% of a 120billion dollar market. (Btw, I liked "look, we import 790 MILLION dollars of textiles now" )

[Nodrog]

I'm going to withhold my judgement until someone from a country that supports free-trade posts in this thread.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I'm going to withhold my judgement until someone from a country that supports free-trade posts in this thread.

And from a country that supports total protectionism.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

And from a country that supports total protectionism.

I used to think that football rivalry was just a small scale version of nationalism, but now I realise that nationalism is actually a large scale version of football rivalry.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I used to think that football rivalry was just a small scale version of nationalism, but now I realise that nationalism is actually a large scale version of football rivalry.

Bread and circuses old boy.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Bread and circuses old boy.

I dont understand

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I dont understand

The roman public was satisfied with the rule of the emperors because, primarily, they fulfilled their physical needs - food, water, shelter and so on. At this point some form of emotional diversion and stimulation was required - gladiators, chariot racing et al. If you satisfy people's physical needs and divert them from the fact they aren't in control by not bothering to deny anything ,but instead provide diversions which enthrall the majority in the short term, the majority of people won't bother doing anything about their circumstances in terms of personal liberty. This was famously summed up under the reign of Domitian who ordered that bread be thrown to the crowds at the games in the colosseum. Quite literally "bread and circuses".






Basically it means distract people and fulfill their immediate needs and they won't care how. All despotism and totalitarian states fail because they're unable to do one of the above.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

The roman public was satisfied with the rule of the emperors because, primarily, they fulfilled their physical needs - food, water, shelter and so on. At this point some form of emotional diversion and stimulation was required - gladiators, chariot racing et al. If you satisfy people's physical needs and divert them from the fact they aren't in control by not bothering to deny anything ,but instead provide diversions which enthrall the majority in the short term, the majority of people won't bother doing anything about their circumstances in terms of personal liberty. This was famously summed up under the reign of Domitian who ordered that bread be thrown to the crowds at the games in the colosseum. Quite literally "bread and circuses".






Basically it means distract people and fulfill their immediate needs and they won't care how. All despotism and totalitarian states fail because they're unable to do one of the above.

O

I was more meaning that being exposed to the stupidity of 'supporting a football team' at a young age helps people get comfortable with the idea of fitting into a "my 'team' right or wrong - who cares about rationality!!!!" mentality which has the end result of making faggots like wu_trax post on internet message boards about other countries not caring about free-trade, when his own country is to free-trade what hitler was to zionism.

[Nodrog]

u r rite though

The funniest thing is that sports fans arent even dum about it - they have far more indepth knowledge about their favourite team/league/whatever than I have about 99.999999% things in life - the level of useless statistical and analytical knowledge that most of them have boggles the mind. If that same level of intellectual effort was invested into something even remotely important/constructive then the world probably wouldnt be such a shithole, so its lucky that its there to distract them and all that.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

they have far more indepth knowledge about their favourite team/league/whatever than I have about 99.999999% things in life - the level of useless statistical and analytical knowledge that most of them have boggles the mind. If that same level of intellectual effort was invested into something even remotely important/constructive then the world probably wouldnt be such a shithole, so its lucky that its there to distract them and all that.

Still reading stormfront nod?






PS It's just a sort of natural thing though. Generally people stick by their family right or wrong, or a significant other, or long-term friend or something along those lines. It's just a little bit more of a stretch to make that group encompass your nation or race (or football team) in which you're helped along the way by various forms of mass media influence and difficulties that exist due to other people that you blame yourself for because everyone else seems to be like this so there's something wrong with you if you aren't. It's easy and doesn't require thought so people choose it. Lots of people don't really like thinking for themselves that much, god only knows why.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Still reading stormfront nod?

I dont really have the internet much these days it sucks

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

PS It's just a sort of natural thing though.

Nah mang, using naturalism/biological determinism/whatever to justify current levels of stupidity is silly. People arent dumb because 'its in their nature' to be dumb - its more to do with the fact that the current structure of society strongly encourages it, and because they choose to be.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

It's easy and doesn't require thought so people choose it.

Just like pseudo-genetic behaviouralistic explanations of human actions am i rite

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I dont really have the internet much these days it sucks

You don't have the internet because it sucks or it sucks that you don't have the internet?

Nah mang, using naturalism/biological determinism/whatever to justify current levels of stupidity is silly. People arent dumb because 'its in their nature' to be dumb - its more to do with the fact that the current structure of society strongly encourages it, and because they choose to be.

I'm not saying individuals are dumb because of genetic determinism, the whole of determinism is just a pile of crap as it depends on quite clearly irrational premises. Throughout history the majority of people have shown a tendency to be easily led and resistant to changes that can disrupt their "bread and circuses". So the current structure of society, strangely enough, is perpetuated by the current structure of society.

Just like pseudo-genetic behaviouristic explanations am i rite

Stormfront's great for those. More black people are in jails than the percentages population wise would imply, therefore black people are genetically disposed to break the law. I always start laughing when I come up against this argument. I probably won't be laughing when it's revealed 75% of people think that this is logically sound though

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

You don't have the internet because it sucks or it sucks that you don't have the internet?

The internet is cool and it sucks that I dont have it

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Stormfront's great for those. More black people are in jails than the percentages population wise would imply, therefore black people are genetically disposed to break the law. I always start laughing when I come up against this argument. I probably won't be laughing when it's revealed 75% of people think that this is logically sound though

I dont think theres anything particularly controversial about saying that group X is either biologically or socially more likely to commit action A than group Y (even saying that they are naturally less intelligent is a fair statement, provided you have some evidence (lol bell curve lol)), but that still doesnt even remotely justify discrimination against individuals within that group who have 'escaped' from the dominating property. White nationalism is probably the natural anti-theisis of cultural relativism/multiculturalism though, and both are pretty much equally stupid.

Its funny how they hate blacks because they think blacks are inferior, and then hate jews because they think that jews find themselves to be better than whites though.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

The internet is cool and it sucks that I dont have it

I dont think theres anything particularly controversial about saying that group X is either biologically or socially more likely to commit action A than group Y (even saying that they are naturally less intelligent is a fair statement, provided you have some evidence (lol bell curve lol)), but that still doesnt justify discrimination against individuals within that group who have escaped from the dominating property. White nationalism is probably the natural anti-theisis of cultural relativism/multiculturalism though, and both are probably equally stupid.

Intelligence is hard enough to measure for one individual against another never mind one race against another. IQ tests show that in descending order it's something like jews, east asians, whites, indians, native americans, blacks, aborigines in terms of scores. But then IQ tests are culturally related as well so that sort of sucks, that plus IQ tests measure how good you are at passing IQ tests, not how intelligent you are. It's the whole inconsistency in it I dislike really and the drawing of arbitrary lines at various points while declaring them absolutes for mindnumbingly obvious subjective reasons. As I usually reply to those sorts of comments why not just lock up all poor people and shoot them as statistically more poor people commit crime. Most people realise this though and try to use practicality to justify their emotional based thoughts on various issues (not to claim the position of absolute reason for myself or anything). Oh and white nationalism is so not the antithesis of cultural relativism as both don't bother differentiating between overall cultures and societies and the individuals in each if y'know what I'm talking about.

Its funny how they hate blacks because they think blacks are inferior, and then hate jews because they think that jews find themselves to be better than whites though.

I read a great one from this guy in Sydney who was complaining that Chinese people were going there and working hard and taking all white people's jobs which made me laugh

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Intelligence is hard enough to measure for one individual against another never mind one race against another

Yeah, me and dante agreed about a month ago that 'intelligence' was just a linguistic construction that had pretty much zero application to the real world, and we were both pretty shocked that we actually agreed on something other than Marilyn_Manson being a statist faggot

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

But then IQ tests are culturally related as well [/b]/

Depends what you mean by culturally related I suppose. If you mean culturally related as in "IQ tests are biased towards whites because logic and mathematics are artificial eurocentric constructs!" then i'd think thats silly, but if you meant that the discrepencies between races can be explained purely by culturally differences (ie 'black culture' often hating success, and thinking that successful blacks are 'pandering to the white man', while asian culture encouraged success in the name of family honour (!) etc etc) then I'd agree.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

that plus IQ tests measure how good you are at passing IQ tests, not how intelligent you are[/b]

Naaaah. I dont really care how 'scientifically accurate' (whatever that means) IQ tests are claimed to be, but I've always noticed high levels of correlation between someones claimed IQ score and how intelligent I find them to be in conversation. At the end of the day, all socially agreed measures of intelligence are completely artificial and simply reflect what qualities are valued within that society, but I'd still personally take someones IQ as being a more valid measure of their 'intelligence' than their level of education/degree/university/salary/career/whatever. I agree that theres no genuinelly valid quantifiable measure of 'intelligence' though obviously (or even that its a legitimate/meaningful thing to talk about)

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

As I usually reply to those sorts of comments why not just lock up all poor people and shoot them as statistically more poor people commit crime[/b]

Because even if a group could be holistically proven to be 'inferior', it still wouldnt justify causeless discrimination against individual members of that group.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Oh and white nationalism is so not the antithesis of cultural relativism as both don't bother differentiating between overall cultures and societies and the individuals in each if y'know what I'm talking about.

But I thought the fact that both sides were equally stupid and based on the same flawed premises was the entire point of dialectics

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yeah, me and dante agreed about a month ago that 'intelligence' was just a linguistic expression that had pretty much zero application to the real world, and we were both pretty shocked that we actually agreed on something

It's a combination of various things and the elements and ratios of the elements in the combination depend on perspective so it's really subjective and yeah is only really of much use as a linguistic expression of a general concept

Depends what you mean by culturally related I suppose. If you mean culturally related as in "IQ tests are biased towards whites because logic and mathematics are artificial eurocentric constructs!" then i'd think thats silly, but if you meant that the discrepencies between races can be explained purely by culturally differences (ie 'black culture' often hating success, and thinking that successful blacks are 'pandering to the white man', while asian culture encouraged success in the name of family honour (!) etc etc) then I'd agree.

Dude I meant culturally related in the sense that shape recognition is a part of IQ tests and if you haven't studied some basic geometry or even considered shapes from any angle at all you won't be as good at it as someone who has or word association for a semi-literate person (apparently a huge percentage of american high school graduates can barely read a comic book or something which is probably hugely exaggerated but gets my point across). Poor people who can't afford books or geometry classes or a whole load of other things probably won't do as well as people whose parents were well-off and sent them to decent schools and were educated.

Naaaah. I dont really care how 'scientifically accuate' (whatever that means) IQ tests are claimed to be, but I've always noticed high levels of correlation between someones claimed IQ score and how intelligent I find them to be in conversation. At the end of the day, all socially agreed measures of intelligence are completely artificial and simply reflect what qualities are valued within that society, but I'd still personally take someones IQ as being a more valid measure of their 'intelligence' than their level of education/degree/university/salary/career/whatever.

I'd say the best way of measuring it is to sit down and talk to someone but then I'm like that I guess. Tests can be faked and cheated, it's still difficult to cheat an individual in a one-on-one situation if you both enter on a level playing field (ie minus other information or technology). Conversation is the easiest way of getting to really know somebody (and the extent of their intelligence, whatever that may involve).

Because even if a group could be proven to be 'inferior', it still wouldnt justify causeless discrimination against members of that group.

Yeah I always kind of get ignored when I bring that point up heh.

But I thought the fact that both sides were equally stupid and based on the same flawed premises was the entire point of dialectics

Depends on what view of dialectics you use I suppose. It was a huge strain to just resist at the sight of the word dialectic, as I do with anything that can be associated specifically with hegel.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Dude I meant culturally related in the sense that shape recognition is a part of IQ tests and if you haven't studied some basic geometry or even considered shapes from any angle at all you won't be as good at it as someone who has or word association for a semi-literate person (apparently a huge percentage of american high school graduates can barely read a comic book or something which is probably hugely exaggerated but gets my point across). Poor people who can't afford books or geometry classes or a whole load of other things probably won't do as well as people whose parents were well-off and sent them to decent schools and were educated.

o i agree then.

edit: actually I dont. IQ tests only claim to measure a quantity, not explain why a certain person has it in a larger amount than someone else.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I'd say the best way of measuring it is to sit down and talk to someone but then I'm like that I guess. Tests can be faked and cheated, it's still difficult to cheat an individual in a one-on-one situation if you both enter on a level playing field (ie minus other information or technology). Conversation is the easiest way of getting to really know somebody (and the extent of their intelligence, whatever that may involve).

yeah but youre implicitly assuming both your own intelligence and your ability to judge someone else

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Yeah I always kind of get ignored when I bring that point up heh.

thats probably because its a pretty silly point and is pretty much equivalent to me saying "lol you dont believe in free will so I'm going to stab you in the face with a knife ITS NOT MY FAULT I WAS JUST MADE TO DO IT BY MY DETERMINISTIC NATURE!".

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Depends on what view of dialectics you use I suppose.

The one that marks (haha 'marx' get it?) it as being stupid.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

o i agree then.

edit: actually I dont. IQ tests only claim to measure a quantity, not explain why a certain person has it in a larger amount than someone else.

Oh yeah cos it's clear people aren't using these IQ tests to prove anything at all and that was what the whole point was about.

yeah but youre implicitly assuming both your own intelligence and your ability to judge someone else

I fail to see why it would matter if I was a raving moron. If i'm intelligent then I can make these judgements, if I'm not it won't make a difference to me. Plus you sort of have to assume something at some point.

thats probably because its a pretty silly point and is pretty much equivalent to me saying "lol you dont believe in free will so I'm going to stab you in the face with a knife ITS NOT MY FAULT I WAS JUST MADE TO DO IT BY MY DETERMINISTIC NATURE!".

Causal determinism sucks end of story. Saying must be A or B is equivalent to must be A or must be B should be fairly obviously silly considering you're studying maths.

The one that marks (haha 'marx' get it?) it as being stupid.

I'm glad to see we've decided to ignore any differences between marx and hegel and just lump them in together as "stupid".

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Causal determinism sucks end of story. Saying must be A or B is equivalent to must be A or must be B should be fairly obviously silly considering you're studying maths.

No I meant that saying to someone that "since you believe poor people are more likely to commit crimes, I should just kill them randomly and save society!" has the same level of intellectual calibre as saying "Since you dont believe I have free will, I'm going to stab you in the face". They both seem like pretty huge strawmen from here.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I'm glad to see we've decided to ignore any differences between marx and hegel and just lump them in together as "stupid".

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

No I meant that saying to someone that "since you believe poor people are more likely to commit crimes, I should just kill them randomly and save society!" has the same level of intellectual calibre as saying "Since you dont believe I have free will, I'm going to stab you in the face". They both seem like pretty huge strawmen from here.

Oh right. I just like them both because they make me laugh

[laputa]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

and french military victories is stupid because we all know the french always lose lol ...

How many French soldiers do you need to defend Paris?




























We don't know. They never even tried.

[W]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

PS It's just a sort of natural thing though. Generally people stick by their family right or wrong, or a significant other, or long-term friend or something along those lines. It's just a little bit more of a stretch to make that group encompass your nation or race (or football team) in which you're helped along the way by various forms of mass media influence and difficulties that exist due to other people that you blame yourself for because everyone else seems to be like this so there's something wrong with you if you aren't. It's easy and doesn't require thought so people choose it. Lots of people don't really like thinking for themselves that much, god only knows why.

It's called patriotism, and is quite rational in that being nice to people who are closer to you will gain you more reward (in terms of safety and return favours) than being nice to that village down in Kamerun (assuming you're not from that village in Kamerun but actually a big city in a western nation.)

On the subject of IQ tests, anyone know the easiest way to take a Mega test for someone living in Norway?

[I am Idler]

my iq test done 4 months into the military gave me a iq of 115, I'm a freakin genious

[W]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

my iq test done 4 months into the military gave me a iq of 115, I'm a freakin genious

Every 6'th person taking that test has a higher IQ than you.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by W

It's called patriotism, and is quite rational in that being nice to people who are closer to you will gain you more reward (in terms of safety and return favours) than being nice to that village down in Kamerun (assuming you're not from that village in Kamerun but actually a big city in a western nation.)

On the subject of IQ tests, anyone know the easiest way to take a Mega test for someone living in Norway?

Goodness is it's own reward W. I'm ashamed you don't know that by now. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO OUR GREAT CHRISTIAN ETHICS?

[queball]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Naaaah. I dont really care how 'scientifically accurate' (whatever that means) IQ tests are claimed to be, but I've always noticed high levels of correlation between someones claimed IQ score and how intelligent I find them to be in conversation.

You have conversations? I got like 169 or something on the Mensa test and most people in conversation seem to think I'm a retard until I say I'm a maths student and stuff.

[pablissimo]

Mensa rejected me.

It's why my arguments are dumb.

[inf]

The EU is an excuse for protectionism and a bastardisation of equality.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by queball

You have conversations? I got like 169 or something on the Mensa test and most people in conversation seem to think I'm a retard

It's good to know that getting great test scores and going to a prestigious course in a prestigious college and getting a good job when you leave and being highly intelligent still doesn't make up for the fact that beans on toast is more fun than you.










<3 quey

[queball]

beans on toast is ace though

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by queball

seem to think I'm a retard until I say I'm a maths student and stuff.

Until you say you're a maths student they merely presume you're a retard...

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by queball

beans on toast is ace though

It's hardly the life and soul of the party though, is it?