Sick of this crap

[MAdnRisKy]

we didn't have virus co-ords, any none targetting of them was only because we were hitting you!

you'll notice that WP and NoS didn't get much either, guess we had a nap with them too

[Sirad]

Originally posted by Zh|l
I'll put it in bold:

Politically, r9 was actually quite 'good'. Unfortunately due to the nature of the losers seeming to just give up rather than attempt any coherent form of resistence, there was no discernable difference between r9 and r5.

To put it slightly more into perspective, I personally enjoyed r5 alot - but politically the round was rather boring, and in general was thus boring. r6 had interesting politics, and due to the side of Furgion continuing the fight into the next war proved to be good for players. In r9 however, it had good politics but alas there wasnt the fighting spirit resulting in what seemed like a total stagnation situation.

It's quite Ok, after reading this and your other compradraee's replies I'll accept full blame for Vom's loss, and I'm sure Webangel would accept some as well.

If so desired Vom needent had announced (VOM Virus Olympians Madcows) that they would have been co-operating and could have kept it secret on a HC level longer then the 2-3 weeks before we announced to our members. however it was our belief #1 to limit our influance on the universe to no more then 10-15% so a stagnat round would not be foreseeable. And it was our belief in our announceing that similar size and possibly sightly superior in number blocks would develop, all in all provideing a much more fluent round then round 9 turned out to be.
However I apoligize for over estemateing the good will gesture on our part to be extended in kind by thoose on the Weet side, again my bad I'll take full blame,

And your description of loosers giveing up, let me put it in prespective to you my former counter part, we had incomming on 75-90 % of our galaxies for 2-3 weeks of which we fought as hard we could, now I'm sorry when you do math you cant run your fleet all the time, so after 2-3 weeks of 70% of the uni getting free roids and our fleets being killed because of no time to run them...... THERES NOT A LOT TO FIGHT BACK WITH YOU MORON.

Even though we kept on fighting the visability was neglegable due to the fact we had fewer ships and the war had been focused more intesivly, and numerically then flvt ever saw in round 6.

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by sirad
It's quite Ok, after reading this and your other compradraee's replies I'll accept full blame for Vom's loss, and I'm sure Webangel would accept some as well.

Thats good then, because you should accept some responsibility. You were a HC for Madcows during r9. So it only fits for you to accept some blame. Infact, I do recall your posts upon AD as being some of the most laughable sorry excuses for a HC post ever. It made a mockery of your position and was a disgrace to your alliance. You're lucky Madcows was a community alliance originally because any professional alliance would have got shot of you upon that board campaign of yours.

Originally posted by sirad

If so desired Vom needent had announced (VOM Virus Olympians Madcows) that they would have been co-operating and could have kept it secret on a HC level longer then the 2-3 weeks before we announced to our members. however it was our belief #1 to limit our influance on the universe to no more then 10-15% so a stagnat round would not be foreseeable. And it was our belief in our announceing that similar size and possibly sightly superior in number blocks would develop, all in all provideing a much more fluent round then round 9 turned out to be.
However I apoligize for over estemateing the good will gesture on our part to be extended in kind by thoose on the Weet side, again my bad I'll take full blame

I'm not going to be dragged into the stupid arguement of whose fault it was that the blocks started. VoM announcing first had a knockon effect. I know for a fact that this was made perfectly aware to the alliance leaders within your block but in ignorance you chose to ignore it. You cant expect the PA universe to just sit down and do nothing when something threatens to dominate the round. It would be like me trying to pass off a Fury + co as hardly a threat and that there was no need to do anything vs us.

You made critical errors in judgement (you as in VoM command) by what seemed to be trying to alienate the third block. VoM did more work themselves in forcing NAR to chose the side of WEET.

Still, it was unfortunate that VoM got so overrun. That was a miscalaculation on our part.

Originally posted by sirad

And your description of loosers giveing up, let me put it in prespective to you my former counter part, we had incomming on 75-90 % of our galaxies for 2-3 weeks of which we fought as hard we could, now I'm sorry when you do math you cant run your fleet all the time, so after 2-3 weeks of 70% of the uni getting free roids and our fleets being killed because of no time to run them...... THERES NOT A LOT TO FIGHT BACK WITH YOU MORON.

Firstly, I meant loser as in not winning, not in the negative fashion as some insult. It was quicker than typing out all the alliances that "lost" their wars. There were elements of the "losers" that I definately don't consider a "loser" - if that makes sense.

The campaign conducting by yourself and Rookie at the time was far more crippling to VoM than anything we could have done upon these boards. You yourselves helped destroy the VoM morale, which in turn is why there wasnt any real resistance. You just all gave up within the first night of incoming and thought saying it was overkill would ease the pain. (Apologies to the VoM members who carried on fighting, I don't mean to generalize).

All in all, you have to admit the VoM war was one of the most anti climatic things I've seen. I think it even beats NoCeX since that crumbled apart more due to the fact NoS self destructed and left a gaping wound just before the start.

This doesnt point at the "weeks of incoming", I'm talking about the first few days where you seemed to just gear up your members for giving up.

Calling me a moron won't make me respond nicer either.

Originally posted by sirad

Even though we kept on fighting the visability was neglegable due to the fact we had fewer ships and the war had been focused more intesivly, and numerically then flvt ever saw in round 6.

Alliances in r6 were far more organized. WEET couldnt have organized a piss up in the brewery. It took several meetings for us to even have ToT acknowledged as able to vote on matters - it was worse than the famous Fury red tape.

PS: I'm not trying to be nasty to you or anything. I just have strong viewpoints that I'm sharing.

[das_experiment]

I was probably in one of the best VOM gals in r9, and we were active all the way through the round.

But every1 can see that the sides were far from even , with WEET\NAR having 3 times the members of vvomm, and every gal always getting inc.

My gal (as most) had incs every1 single day the first month.



P.S I know it has been said 10000000 times be4.

P.S I also think its dumb to give the full blame to vom, as every ally made mistakes(WP\ELY for cooperating first(!), and eclipse(and co.) for making FKING HUGE BLOCK)

[Sirad]

Originally posted by Zh|l
, I do recall your posts upon AD as being some of the most laughable sorry excuses for a HC post ever. It made a mockery of your position and was a disgrace to your alliance. You're lucky Madcows was a community alliance originally because any professional alliance would have got shot of you upon that board campaign of yours. [/b]

Well theres a reason you thats all fine and kind, its your opinion and your opinion on internal affairs in the alliance I served in then ment as much to me then, as they do now, which is dick all, you say i was a disgrace to my alliance thats again a outsider opinion, you can feel free to ask the members there what there opinion of me was if you so like to back up your claim, my board posts were nothing but the truth, if you dident like that then tough ****.

I'm not going to be dragged into the stupid arguement of whose fault it was that the blocks started. VoM announcing first had a knockon effect. I know for a fact that this was made perfectly aware to the alliance leaders within your block but in ignorance you chose to ignore it. You cant expect the PA universe to just sit down and do nothing when something threatens to dominate the round. It would be like me trying to pass off a Fury + co as hardly a threat and that there was no need to do anything vs us.

You made critical errors in judgement (you as in VoM command) by what seemed to be trying to alienate the third block. VoM did more work themselves in forcing NAR to chose the side of WEET.

You are right we thought people would act accordingly and create there own blocks not 1 block vs all of vom, so I guess we were ignorant in that aspect, but no more then the ignorance that created the largest powershareing percentage block in Planetarion history.. Congradulations.

Still, it was unfortunate that VoM got so overrun. That was a miscalaculation on our part.

hind sight is allways 20/20 but learning from mistakes in ones past is a part of growing you've already drew a comparison between r5 and r9,... clas sis in session ?.

The campaign conducting by yourself and Rookie at the time was far more crippling to VoM than anything we could have done upon these boards. You yourselves helped destroy the VoM morale, which in turn is why there wasnt any real resistance. You just all gave up within the first night of incoming and thought saying it was overkill would ease the pain. (Apologies to the VoM members who carried on fighting, I don't mean to generalize).

You obviously were in the Vom command room as much as I was then because you know alot more then me about when I gave up, clearly I must have been in the wrong room. are you claiming it wasent overkill then ?......

All in all, you have to admit the VoM war was one of the most anti climatic things I've seen. I think it even beats NoCeX since that crumbled apart more due to the fact NoS self destructed and left a gaping wound just before the start.

How can you expect me to admit something which is based on what you yourself have seen and not I..

This doesnt point at the "weeks of incoming", I'm talking about the first few days where you seemed to just gear up your members for giving up.

Certinaly you had some sort of intell and were able to read the speaches i made at the madcows member meetings.. and I do not believe any of them were consession speaches, so where I had geared up the members for giveing up, I'd surely like to know because its obvious you knew more about the ongoings in my alliance then I myself did,

Calling me a moron won't make me respond nicer either.

Then dont act like one.

Alliances in r6 were far more organized. WEET couldnt have organized a piss up in the brewery. It took several meetings for us to even have ToT acknowledged as able to vote on matters - it was worse than the famous Fury red tape.

the numerical advantage in such a round where relativly anyone left playing was unprecedented to this round as was stated by myself in my 'laughable according to you' posts before, but you can feel free to dispute that if you desire.

PS: I'm not trying to be nasty to you or anything. I just have strong viewpoints that I'm sharing. [/b]

I'm not playing actuvly this round in fact the only reason I have a planet is because Pa crew created it automatically and I had some time to kill in europe before I returned home, one of the main reasons I am no longer playing is because I do not enjoy this game nor most people playing it. so you can be as nasty to me as you like I dont give a rats ass.

[das_experiment]

Originally posted by sirad













I'm not playing actuvly this round in fact the only reason I have a planet is because Pa crew created it automatically and I had some time to kill in europe before I returned home, one of the main reasons I am no longer playing is because I do not enjoy this game nor most people playing it. so you can be as nasty to me as you like I dont give a rats ass.

AMEN TO THAT

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by das_experiment
I was probably in one of the best VOM gals in r9, and we were active all the way through the round.

But every1 can see that the sides were far from even , with WEET\NAR having 3 times the members of vvomm, and every gal always getting inc.

My gal (as most) had incs every1 single day the first month.



P.S I know it has been said 10000000 times be4.

P.S I also think its dumb to give the full blame to vom, as every ally made mistakes(WP\ELY for cooperating first(!), and eclipse(and co.) for making FKING HUGE BLOCK)

VoM was hugely overestimated whilst WEET was underestimated. Eclipse was far too new on the scene and was frankly not used to WE at that point. ToT we had some familiarity with due to Fury experience with them.

It was only after the first night really when VoM channels got battered with incoming requests that the true scale of devastation upon VoM was seen.

I don't blame VoM entirely, and apologise if that is how it seems. To correct you also, it was not Eclipse that was the main builder or coordinator of the blocks.

In hindsight, it may have been better for the WEETNAR colations to have been mixed up into two seperate blocks, but alas I cant remember a true three block war.

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by sirad
lots of stuff

I'm going to cease arguing this with you as its pointless, plus diverting from the original thread topic.

In closing, what you displayed in public was what I considered unprofessional from both you and Rookie back then. It went against everything I had seen in a HC, and I was not alone in that viewpoint.

You refused to even read and take onboard my points, instead twisting it to dispute. (Such as the VoM not exactly being very intelligent in alienating the 3rd block as hostile immediately).

Anyway, VoM will blame WEETNAR for the round it seems. I personally think it was the fault of VoM and WEETNAR.

[das_experiment]

Originally posted by Zh|l

Anyway, VoM will blame WEETNAR for the round it seems. I personally think it was the fault of VoM and WEETNAR.

lets blame NaR !

[Sirad]

Originally posted by Zh|l
I'm going to cease arguing this with you as its pointless, plus diverting from the original thread topic.

In closing, what you displayed in public was what I considered unprofessional from both you and Rookie back then. It went against everything I had seen in a HC, and I was not alone in that viewpoint.

You refused to even read and take onboard my points, instead twisting it to dispute. (Such as the VoM not exactly being very intelligent in alienating the 3rd block as hostile immediately).

Anyway, VoM will blame WEETNAR for the round it seems. I personally think it was the fault of VoM and WEETNAR.

the post i quoted you on first in this thread diverted, I was just tired of you and your friends acting like the end all and be all of deciders of planetarion fate, and your mannerisms on this board. if your not alone and others have commentary on my actions while I was a Hc, they can feel free to contact me as so far they havent unless you expect me to take hicks seriously heh.

Yea your right I refused to read your points thats why I quoted them., you yourself said that you had not witnessed a 3 side block war before, We tried to instigate one, you took that as open season, I've already said blame goes around the board for round 9. if you actually read any of my ' laughable' posts earlier

[Hicks]

Originally posted by skipper
The whinethreads are nowhere near r9. I dont recall a round when most of the people on ad were screaming how great the round is. The minority point is baseless as the players enjoying the round have other things to do than post in AD every day.

The whines in Round 9 came not from boredom but from people being unable to accept that they got hammered into the dust. Believe it or not the whines of Round 9.5 will be whines coming, would you like to know why ? As it stands now LDK have utterly over ran all of you, shortly the last resistance in the top ranks will fail and LDK will dominate the universe even as it stands now LDK already hold almost all the top ranks and they've not even been tested.

You and all the other idiots have allowed LDK to overwhelm random planets with their multi escorts almost unopposed all your whining and anti block hysteria has led to the only people who can stop LDK (Hi Eclipse, Olympians and Elysium) being too scared to ally and do it for fear of being branded evil and demonized.

Shortly this round is going to stagnate on a colossal scale and LDK will spend what's left of it bashing you little peons into the ground. Even if they have cheated on a large scale (Which I'm "told" they did I've not really seem much evidence other than Stals getting shut) they deserve their win because most of you are off pretending to have fun in a glorified database to properly oppose them.

You see that's all Planetarion is a big database and it's boring as hell to play without good wars or opposition or struggles, the only thing you can do to amuse yourself is get a big number in the score cell (Even that gets lame quickly I certainly enjoyed "losing" Round 1, Round 4 and Round 6 more than I enjoyed "winning" most other rounds simply for the great wars and challenges of fighting back) and soon that will be impossible for anyone not LDK. The "game" itself is moderately entertaining for a short while but as soon as someone gets universal domination and can't be brought down it becomes stale. The fun of the game is the political side of it, the alliance wars, trying to stop your enemies getting to that top position and as I said in my earlier post with a random universe and anti block hysteria that's almost impossible. Enjoy your fun I'm off to play with Microsoft Access !!1

[K-W]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
we didn't have virus co-ords, any none targetting of them was only because we were hitting you!

you'll notice that WP and NoS didn't get much either, guess we had a nap with them too

When did I say you had a nap with them. Attack cooperation and informal "the enemy fo my enemy is my friend" naps do not make you any less cooperating.

[laputa]

Originally posted by sirad
you yourself said that you had not witnessed a 3 side block war before, We tried to instigate one, you took that as open season, I've already said blame goes around the board for round 9. if you actually read any of my ' laughable' posts earlier

To instigate a 3 side block war? Are you out of your mind? I don't think that instigating a three block war was the real motive behind forming VoM. If it were so it was a grievous fault and grievously has VoM answered it.
Even a ten year old would have foreseen that a three block war was not a likely scenario. So the reasoning behind forming VoM must have been something else. Gaining an advantage over the enemy comes to mind.

And Zhil is right. Your 'We give up'-campaign did hurt VoM's morale more than the ever flying ships of teenwar. At least the atmosphere in the Oly channels sank to depths unknown so far.

When the overdue split of teenwar finally came VoM HC acted like a prima donna and refused to fully cooperate with either Nar or Teen. Same goes for the split of Weet. Zhil & co just took advantage of the political weakness of VoM which I really can't blame them for. The only thing which went wrong imo is the way how some weet members attacked their targets. Unnecessary overkill to say the least. Plus the Rabba incident.

Laputa

[laputa]

Originally posted by Hicks
You and all the other idiots have allowed LDK to overwhelm random planets with their multi escorts almost unopposed all your whining and anti block hysteria has led to the only people who can stop LDK (Hi Eclipse, Olympians and Elysium) being too scared to ally and do it for fear of being branded evil and demonized.

Is it really the fear of being branded evil? All former Fury should be used to that by now anyway. And with the eclipse PR gang it shouldn't be that hard to first depict all Lithuanians and friends as being ultra-evil just to form a block to save PA from those wicked East-Europeans. No, I don't think that being branded evil is the reason why those three have not blocked so far. Breaking their word to go solo this round sounds like a far more reasonable incitement to me.

Originally posted by Hicks

Enjoy your fun I'm off to play with Microsoft Access !!1

Now that sounds like fun

[lokken]

r9 was won by Eclipse because the opposition quite frankly laid down and died and didn't realise how they were being played.

If the round is going how Hicks suggests, it's quite worrying that others have let it get to this stage (I'm only aware of LDK's dominance of the top 10 which is only a slight indicator to me). If one alliance looks as if it is going to dominate it is as a matter of course that a force rises to come up and try to counteract it. There would need to be some cooperation on some level, as far as mutual interests arise.

As for LDK. I don't give a smeg if they cheat or not. Like any other alliance they are opposition just like the rest, and there's very little you can do about it when some escort fleet is around with a large LDK'er and there's little to stop you. The only thing you can hope is that cheaters get caught. If LDK cheat, they just cheat better than everyone else and do it as a matter of policy. Not everyone can speak Lithuanian, and therefore to obtain information from and about them is rather difficult.

Like all good alliances should be, LDK are ruthless, just like Fury, just like Legion, just like Eclipse. People should realise that ruthlessness is one of the things that wins alliances rounds. PA players do whine too much quite frankly. Last round was awful, I wanted to give quite a few people on this forum a slap.

[Le Mauvais Moine]

Originally posted by laputa
...

You didn't say a word to Hicks point accusing you of using multi escort fleet tactics. So, What does that mean ?

[K-W]

Originally posted by lokken
r9 was won by Eclipse because the opposition quite frankly laid down and died and didn't realise how they were being played.

If the round is going how Hicks suggests, it's quite worrying that others have let it get to this stage (I'm only aware of LDK's dominance of the top 10 which is only a slight indicator to me). If one alliance looks as if it is going to dominate it is as a matter of course that a force rises to come up and try to counteract it. There would need to be some cooperation on some level, as far as mutual interests arise.

As for LDK. I don't give a smeg if they cheat or not. Like any other alliance they are opposition just like the rest, and there's very little you can do about it when some escort fleet is around with a large LDK'er and there's little to stop you. The only thing you can hope is that cheaters get caught. If LDK cheat, they just cheat better than everyone else and do it as a matter of policy. Not everyone can speak Lithuanian, and therefore to obtain information from and about them is rather difficult.

Like all good alliances should be, LDK are ruthless, just like Fury, just like Legion, just like Eclipse. People should realise that ruthlessness is one of the things that wins alliances rounds. PA players do whine too much quite frankly. Last round was awful, I wanted to give quite a few people on this forum a slap.

As far as round 9, I think it wasn't so much a being played issue. It wasnt like eclipse was behind the scences doing lots of stuff and others didnt know. Other than the obvious move of getting nar at the start which I cant speak on first hand, but from what ive read doesnt seem like that complex a conspiricy, the rest of the moves in the round where terribly straighforward.

No one got played, they just made the wrong moves for multiple reasons.

As far as round 9.5, Hicks is generally right, the only stand out alliance performance right now is LDK, they came into this round excited and hungry and its shown. Considering thier ability, for both legitimate and questionable reasons, to defend themselves, and the shortned round, the time will begin to run out on stopping them from waltzing away with the round.

Weve had our solo time, now its time for action in the political sphere. No need to make alliances to last for 10 more rounds. Just naps and cooperations floating around to have some fun wars. It will only help the game.

[laputa]

Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
You didn't say a word to Hicks point accusing you of using multi escort fleet tactics. So, What does that mean ?

maybe that is because I am not LDK this round. Hence I can not comment on any escort fleet tactics.

[CamelToe]

The blame for VOM losing should be placed entirely on the US Navy.

[CrazySpoon]

Since Rehs came back and brought his pics with him in a navy suit the morale in oly HC room has multipled by 7 :P

[Hicks]

Originally posted by laputa
maybe that is because I am not LDK this round. Hence I can not comment on any escort fleet tactics.

Also I made no accusation I simply said that's what I'd been told, I even said it was no doubt embellished to compensate for the fact people have lost. Even if they did cheat it hardly matters the day's when everyone was shocked by cheaters and wouldn't dare associate with them is long gone, if they cheat and get away with it good for them it just serves to highlight how inept PA Crew are.

[laputa]

Originally posted by Hicks
Also I made no accusation I simply said that's what I'd been told, I even said it was no doubt embellished to compensate for the fact people have lost. Even if they did cheat it hardly matters the day's when everyone was shocked by cheaters and wouldn't dare associate with them is long gone, if they cheat and get away with it good for them it just serves to highlight how inept PA Crew are.

actually the cheating/non-cheating thinggie was the only point of your post I didn't want to talk about; hence I skipped it

Sun Tzu (and thousands of years of military history) tells us that we should not start wars unless we are reasonably confident of victory. Even within the context of a game, this basic principle holds true. To be the first alliance to openly strike at LDK would be a strategic blunder. After all, why start a fight when someone else can start it for you?

The inability (for fear of gaining pariah status) of alliances to block means that it is impossible for two weaker alliances to combine forces to fight a stronger one. As such, whoever gets on top first will stay there. Anyone who attempts to fight them alone will be defeated easily, and any alliances which attempt to team up for this purpose can easily be demonized as blockers, and will most likely be attacked either by the righteous moral anti-block crusaders, or the counter-block formed by the existing leaders (or, if those existing leaders are smart and make their block secretly, both). Indeed, for the leading alliance, the prospect of other alliances making a block is a positive development, as it provides them with perfect justification for whatever political plays they make themselves. And if there is no block, it's easy enough to create the appearance of one.

Older generations of players may remember round 3, where a similar situation prevailed (although for different reasons). A single effective force rose to the top, and their only credible opponents failed to use politics to contain them. Then, this was simple naïveté; they genuinely belived that a policy of non-confrontation was best, that the winners would be merciful and simply overlook their planets and roids once all other opposition was crushed. This didn't happen and, at the end, everyone agreed that the round would have been much improved had an effective multi-alliance cooperation (a block, in the modern parlance) arisen to fight the Triad, instead of simply waiting to be eliminated one-by-one.

The confusing aspect of the current round is that alliances are choosing to do the same as in r3, and are even holding this conduct up as exemplary behaviour. I suppose that if the aim is to re-create the 'glory days' of Planetarion, it can only succeed. Round 3, with the dominant power simply brushing aside its ineffective and disorganized opposition, then imposing complete domination on the universe, is being emulated in r9.5. I could draw a parallel with the use of bots in securing the former victory, but that would be childish and irresponsible of me

To sum up, it baffles me that alliances seem to have come full circle, from lamenting their failure to join forces against the Triad in round 3, to preaching the virtues of repeating the same strategy that so failed them (and in most people's eyes, the game as a whole) in round 3.

Hmm, my first post since round 5

[laputa]

Originally posted by Nirvana

Hmm, my first post since round 5

interesting read, you should post more often

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Nirvana

Interesting post, but to add.

This isnt like r3 in the terms of sheer scale of things. There are far less planets, and far less alliances. Additionally, alliances have come a long way since then so a singular alliance is highly unlikely to be disorganized.

Additionally there was an opposite block created to oppose the Triumverate back in r3 - STEL. Sedition/TE/Elysium/LOST.

Not many people seem to playing r9.5 seriously either. Many will say this is an excuse, but its something that was stated by a few prominent people before it even began. I do not think politics and the tactics of their usage has come a full circle. There was no villanfication in r3 of those who blocked - none at all. After countless rounds of whining and such, alliances went solo and now a big essence of Planetarion has disappeared. Without politics, it becomes a mere matter of establishing the top planets and sweeping aside the other alliances one by one. There is a fear of blocking, which again there was not in r3, and there was also the statements made by each alliance supporting the solo idea thus it would be seen as a pr blunder for any alliance to go back upon that. These are the reasons for no opposition being set up, not about foolishly thinking their respective alliances can be spared.

I do hope some alliances realize where its all heading soon enough before its too late and a singular alliance gain too much of a lead for nothing to stop them.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Nirvana
Sun Tzu (and thousands of years of military history) tells us that we should not start wars unless we are reasonably confident of victory. Even within the context of a game, this basic principle holds true. To be the first alliance to openly strike at LDK would be a strategic blunder. After all, why start a fight when someone else can start it for you?

The inability (for fear of gaining pariah status) of alliances to block means that it is impossible for two weaker alliances to combine forces to fight a stronger one. As such, whoever gets on top first will stay there. Anyone who attempts to fight them alone will be defeated easily, and any alliances which attempt to team up for this purpose can easily be demonized as blockers, and will most likely be attacked either by the righteous moral anti-block crusaders, or the counter-block formed by the existing leaders (or, if those existing leaders are smart and make their block secretly, both). Indeed, for the leading alliance, the prospect of other alliances making a block is a positive development, as it provides them with perfect justification for whatever political plays they make themselves. And if there is no block, it's easy enough to create the appearance of one.

Older generations of players may remember round 3, where a similar situation prevailed (although for different reasons). A single effective force rose to the top, and their only credible opponents failed to use politics to contain them. Then, this was simple naïveté; they genuinely belived that a policy of non-confrontation was best, that the winners would be merciful and simply overlook their planets and roids once all other opposition was crushed. This didn't happen and, at the end, everyone agreed that the round would have been much improved had an effective multi-alliance cooperation (a block, in the modern parlance) arisen to fight the Triad, instead of simply waiting to be eliminated one-by-one.

The confusing aspect of the current round is that alliances are choosing to do the same as in r3, and are even holding this conduct up as exemplary behaviour. I suppose that if the aim is to re-create the 'glory days' of Planetarion, it can only succeed. Round 3, with the dominant power simply brushing aside its ineffective and disorganized opposition, then imposing complete domination on the universe, is being emulated in r9.5. I could draw a parallel with the use of bots in securing the former victory, but that would be childish and irresponsible of me

To sum up, it baffles me that alliances seem to have come full circle, from lamenting their failure to join forces against the Triad in round 3, to preaching the virtues of repeating the same strategy that so failed them (and in most people's eyes, the game as a whole) in round 3.

Hmm, my first post since round 5

You infer something interesting. The push for solo may actually cause blocking, in the sense that alliances might be afraid to just make small naps or go in pairs for fear of being villianized, so they wont move until theyve built up a block that can prevent that.

Well maybe if youd posted more it wouldnt baffle you . The pendlam is swinging wide of the target at the moment. The villianization of blocks from all that time hasnt just made people want to avoid them, its caused all kinds of irrational thinking to pop up. Ie the solo push.

You should post more though, a nice critical thought out post is refreshing.

[Aaranaf]

Originally posted by laputa
When the overdue split of teenwar finally came VoM HC acted like a prima donna and refused to fully cooperate with either Nar or Teen. Same goes for the split of Weet.
Laputa

after hearing some of the VoM command whine and bitch about all the numbers, it would seem awfully hypocritical to do the same at a later time wouldnt it?

some within VoM were for working with NAR or WEET while most were against it, as again, most of us dont like to be hypocritical twats.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Aaranaf
after hearing some of the VoM command whine and bitch about all the numbers, it would seem awfully hypocritical to do the same at a later time wouldnt it?

some within VoM were for working with NAR or WEET while most were against it, as again, most of us dont like to be hypocritical twats.

Yah its rather funny really. We learned that militant soloism is no better for the game than overkilled blocking.

[lokken]

PA would probably benefit with more fluid politics and agreements of convenience rather than cast iron round long agreements.

[SpazMonster]

Originally posted by lokken
PA would probably benefit with more fluid politics and agreements of convenience rather than cast iron round long agreements.

The question is, why did it take 9 rounds for some to figure that out?

[K-W]

Originally posted by SpazMonster
The question is, why did it take 9 rounds for some to figure that out?

It didnt. I, among many others, have been saying this for a very long time, its not that hard to figure out. And as far as major public opinion, its still not figured out. Most people are still caught up in the blocks are evil thing. There still isnt a widespread understanding that its not an issue of solo vs blocks. Its an issue of stagnation which can be caused by any number of things, including solo play.

[Gerbie]

Originally posted by SpazMonster
The question is, why did it take 9 rounds for some to figure that out?

Huh? Me no comprendo. As far as I see it PA could do without politics altogether.

[lokken]

Originally posted by SpazMonster
The question is, why did it take 9 rounds for some to figure that out?

We did it in round 6 to an extent, except for the fact that we were always going to hold the ND/hirr, which wasn't exactly going to have a huge effect on the universe.

Dropping WP/NoS was always a valid option for us. And FLVT/Xeta were allied at our convenience. It's not the complete answer, it's probably the closest we've got though.

Originally posted by Gerbie
Huh? Me no comprendo. As far as I see it PA could do without politics altogether.

I disagree up to a point. Politics is one of the few things that can allow lesser players to have a chance to 'win' - it is in some senses an equaliser, although it can be abused quite a bit.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by lokken

I disagree up to a point. Politics is one of the few things that can allow lesser players to have a chance to 'win' - it is in some senses an equaliser, although it can be abused quite a bit.

I think politics rather helps the big pple and alliances then the smaller ones Lokken. In theory you're right, but I don't think politics has any advantage for the "lesser" player

rgds Kj

[hAl]

Originally posted by Hicks
The whines in Round 9 came not from boredom but from people being unable to accept that they got hammered into the dust. Believe it or not the whines of Round 9.5 will be whines coming, would you like to know why ? As it stands now LDK have utterly over ran all of you, shortly the last resistance in the top ranks will fail and LDK will dominate the universe even as it stands now LDK already hold almost all the top ranks and they've not even been tested.

You and all the other idiots have allowed LDK to overwhelm random planets with their multi escorts almost unopposed all your whining and anti block hysteria has led to the only people who can stop LDK (Hi Eclipse, Olympians and Elysium) being too scared to ally and do it for fear of being branded evil and demonized.

Shortly this round is going to stagnate on a colossal scale and LDK will spend what's left of it bashing you little peons into the ground. Even if they have cheated on a large scale (Which I'm "told" they did I've not really seem much evidence other than Stals getting shut) they deserve their win because most of you are off pretending to have fun in a glorified database to properly oppose them.

You don't need to block to cooperate on taking down an alliance. You can just come together once and devide the top 20 LDK planets amongst a few alliances and then promise to hit two or three planets a night per alliance for a week or two.

No need for anything else. After a week or two you could probably have had most escort planets closed as well.

no need for a NAP, no need for exchanging coords, daily booking systems, defence coordination sharing HC channel , BC's channels and whatever comes with forming blocks nowadays.

Just an agreement to take out the leaders. That is all fairly easy stuff.

hAl

[K-W]

Originally posted by Gerbie
Huh? Me no comprendo. As far as I see it PA could do without politics altogether.

Good thing your not running the game then. PA without politics is a very very ****ty online game. If you want to play solo, find another game, there are plenty out there. PA is and always has been based around cooperation ie politics.

I dont think that round after round of one alliance outroiding the others and then cruising to victory would be any more fun that round after round of blocks.

[lokken]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
I think politics rather helps the big pple and alliances then the smaller ones Lokken. In theory you're right, but I don't think politics has any advantage for the "lesser" player

rgds Kj

At the beginning of round 6 NoS, WP, CELL, Deus, hirr and ND were all regarded by others as "not very good" in terms of alliances. By the end they had won the round, using politics and propaganda as well as ships as their weaponry.

Not to mention alliances such as Virus, BlueTuba, Elysium possibly even FAnG that have benefited from political agreements that have enabled them to be in the heart of the game rather than being meaningless alliances outside it. Maybe IPC or even hirr will disagree with me, as they've enjoyed the game largely outside the political sphere.

If you are sensible, don't piss people off and generally get people to like you, it is possible to survive as the militarily weaker alliance. It's only when smaller alliances fall short of those standards that they get themselves into trouble. Big Alliances need smaller alliances to win (which in some terms gives them some power) as on their own they tend to be horribly exposed (look how NoS made it show in round 4) - if you can reap the maximum benefit from such a situation there is nothing much to lose. Alliances just need to be careful who they sign up with and that they can be pretty sure what the other guys will do if x, y or indeed z happens - and prepare for it. Even in BlueTuba we had a contingency plan if Fury ever did do the dirty on us, as we took nothing for granted.

If you can't outplay the big guys, why not try to outsmart them?

That's enough of me pontifficating. If I've said anything, it's purely from what i've observed in the game - I can only make points on that basis. Politics needs to be more fluid to make sure that the game does work on the military level and the game doesn't dissolve to just 21 HC in some channel on a private IRC network, while still allowing politics to be factor in determining the round winners.

[skipper]

Originally posted by Hicks
The whines in Round 9 came not from boredom but from people being unable to accept that they got hammered into the dust. Believe it or not the whines of Round 9.5 will be whines coming, would you like to know why ? As it stands now LDK have utterly over ran all of you, shortly the last resistance in the top ranks will fail and LDK will dominate the universe even as it stands now LDK already hold almost all the top ranks and they've not even been tested.

You and all the other idiots have allowed LDK to overwhelm random planets with their multi escorts almost unopposed all your whining and anti block hysteria has led to the only people who can stop LDK (Hi Eclipse, Olympians and Elysium) being too scared to ally and do it for fear of being branded evil and demonized.

Shortly this round is going to stagnate on a colossal scale and LDK will spend what's left of it bashing you little peons into the ground. Even if they have cheated on a large scale (Which I'm "told" they did I've not really seem much evidence other than Stals getting shut) they deserve their win because most of you are off pretending to have fun in a glorified database to properly oppose them.

You see that's all Planetarion is a big database and it's boring as hell to play without good wars or opposition or struggles, the only thing you can do to amuse yourself is get a big number in the score cell (Even that gets lame quickly I certainly enjoyed "losing" Round 1, Round 4 and Round 6 more than I enjoyed "winning" most other rounds simply for the great wars and challenges of fighting back) and soon that will be impossible for anyone not LDK. The "game" itself is moderately entertaining for a short while but as soon as someone gets universal domination and can't be brought down it becomes stale. The fun of the game is the political side of it, the alliance wars, trying to stop your enemies getting to that top position and as I said in my earlier post with a random universe and anti block hysteria that's almost impossible. Enjoy your fun I'm off to play with Microsoft Access !!1

Nice theory but atleast I wont buy that. The round is so short that the evil LDK wont have enough time to slave the universe. For my part, there aint much I can do from here through AD as I dont use irc nor have I account.

I dont understand how you can be so fond of Sun Tzu as most of his points are pure common sense well written.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by lokken
snip

yes lokker, all true etc but yet again I believe that politics is more a tool for the bigger alliances then the smaller ones. Big alliances depend far more on politics then alliances like IPC or hirr because those play for pleasure etc.

rgds Kj

[ComradeRob]

Originally posted by skipper
The round is so short...

Round 9.5 will presumably last until r10 is ready. If that's the case, it could go on for quite some time yet

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Round 9.5 will presumably last until r10 is ready. If that's the case, it could go on for quite some time yet

or we have a r9.75

rgds Kj

[K-W]

Thats a brilliant idea.

[zerocore]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
yes lokker, all true etc but yet again I believe that politics is more a tool for the bigger alliances then the smaller ones. Big alliances depend far more on politics then alliances like IPC or hirr because those play for pleasure etc.

rgds Kj

And what about LDK? Do we depend on polics or we are like IPC or hirr?

[lokken]

Originally posted by zerocore
And what about LDK? Do we depend on polics or we are like IPC or hirr?

You've lost rounds r5,(to an extent 6),7 because you were outpoliticked.

So even LDK depend on it to an extent, even if they are quite 'leet'.

[SilverSmoke]

Originally posted by lokken
You've lost rounds r5,(to an extent 6),7 because you were outpoliticked.

So even LDK depend on it to an extent, even if they are quite 'leet'.

or maybe you mean that the universe needs politics to outgun LDK?

[lokken]

Originally posted by SilverSmoke
or maybe you mean that the universe needs politics to outgun LDK?

Let's see:

round 4 - LDK were on the side that outgunned the other (under someone else's wing)
round 8 - LDK were on the side that outgunned the other, (because Fury decided to play it alone for a good deal of the round as a general up yours to the universe)
round 9.5 - in an apolitical, anti-blocking, hysterical universe LDK are winning

This suggests that LDK have won because the universe has been virtually teed up for them to win from the start. They have been given the opportunity to show their military might, as opposed to politicians smothering anything in their wake.

LDK are a very good alliance, probably the best militarily, however filthy/non filthy they are. However, they lack political vision and incisiveness; maybe language is a barrier that prevents them from doing this. It's why Fury or Legion are probably the best alliances to walk the universe as along with their military might, they have had some kind of awareness of politics. The fact that they were rounded (as opposed to LDK) meant that they have been in general better at winning rounds.

Personally I've always been amused when people from the Xanadu sphere were upset that although their military side was top notch, they got outsmarted. What do people expect the other side to do? Make it easy for you? Lay down and die? I'm baffled myself. You use every route possible to shut down your enemy, end of story.

So there you go. I've given you something to wank off about, while raining on your parade a bit. Alliances should not be judged on military might alone - it's the all round performance that counts. Personally I think playing a planet is only half the fun of playing Planetarion.

[K-W]

Originally posted by lokken

LDK are a very good alliance, probably the best militarily

I would suggest that there is more to military than getting top planets and gals. but it is in that aspect of this game where ldk have ideed excelled above others, and they are probably the best group at doing so. Given a generally open universe in most cases LDk have outproformed others. Not always, but mostly, yet that is only one aspect of being a successful alliance.

[HK]

hm, quite an interesting discussion. I as well think that blocking is the only thing that can save this round. Although yes, one block wins and other loses but large scale wars are more fun than one alliance (hi lithuania) dominating the whole universe. Because of the 24 roid start, full tech and quests there luckily is no lack of roids in this universe, even if you manage to waste loads of score the roids u gain pay back in a matter of days. I don't want to cause a pointless flame war, but since round 3 i have witnessed the actions of LDK. Old players probably in the random universe remember, that if u landed in an LDK controlled gal, you were offered a different (and better) account. With sheer luck 20+ LDK ppl were in the game galaxy ;) Since cheating has been the working horse of LDK for years, they have perfected their mastery of this evul thing. Bigger planets don't control their escorts, instead other people do. By cross defending and attacking with their escort/farm accounts they manage to get away with probably the largest scale of organised cheating in pa, ever. I don't want to say tho, that LDK's military strenght lies in the power of cheat, not at all, they are quite a good and organized alliance and have evolved a lot. Their potential is very high, unfortunately instead of using that, they use other, less justified means. Even my gal has a nifty LDK planet inside, which has been defending and attacking with LDK. I've reported it, no action from the pa crew though, i guess there isn't enough proof ..

Alliances, unite and start fighting back, before it's too late!

(oh and by quoting me and trying to argue back saying LDK doesn't cheat is pointless. The whole universe knows you cheat)

[zerocore]

Originally posted by RedCrab
(oh and by quoting me and trying to argue back saying LDK doesn't cheat is pointless. The whole universe knows you cheat)

Oh no... Not again plz. Have you nothing to say exept "LDK CHEAT" in every post u wrote? WE HEARD THAT 1312312645761487126786124 TIMES!
Your are so pathetic, it starts to be boring

[HK]

If you lie that much do u start to believe ureself?

Oh and not all my posts r like that ;)