The art of agriculture persists

[Obfuscator]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
Talk to the hand, 'cause the face ain't listening.

Perhaps the hand will show more comprehension potential.

[at0mic.c0w]

Originally posted by N0VA
Farming in Planetarion has _always_ been used to describe the unchallenged acquisition of asteroids by attacking friends and alliance mates.

what u are doing here is interpeting and speculating baout what the creators could have meant. what u are actually saying tho is that u have no idea what exactly it is they meant.

i never claimed that the statement on the overview was clear BUT i should have been enough to make anyone "thinking about farming" curious about what exactly is illegal this round ESPECIALLY an alliance HC who also has the responsibility to make sure his members know what's legal and what's not for their own and the alliance's good.

[laputa]

Originally posted by Perfection
From reading his post (quoted above) id say he does. Further, as judges are ex-lawyers it is completely logical that a current lawyer could predict their views. In fact, anyone with a logical mind and a smattering of relevant precedent (past cases on the subject) can surely make an educated guess at the least.

An educated guess, yes. But 'The T&Cs would stand up in any UK court' is not an educated guess.
What you did is an educated guess. Pointing out arguments and counterarguments. That is how legal analysis usually works. lokken did nothing of that kind so I guess he has no education in that field.

Otherwise he would have at least said that a 'I fcuk you all clause by taking away the product you bought at will' is let's say dubious.
Not to mention all the complications caused by everything being on the net not on paper.

Your post should be a must-read for everybody on AD who is trying to discuss the legal justification of rabba's 'case'.

[Razorback]

Originally posted by N0VA
I ask you to read the words you are quoting and actually contemplate about what they mean:

"to those thinking about farming - remember the great eye is ever watchful"

If you actually take them word by word it means only those who think about farming not who farm already , please dont insult Rabbas intelligence to understand that.

Farming in Planetarion has _always_ been used to describe the unchallenged acquisition of asteroids by attacking friends and alliance mates. When "Farming" was declared illegal in Round 7, ship farming was still allowed - hence establishing a precedence that Farming and Ship Farming are two separate actions. Because of this, the statement in the overview does not give anyone a reason to consider Ship Farming as an action under watch.

Farming is no definitioncase, before r9 started there was a long downtime and i guess anyone who choosed Zik had enough opportunity to inform himself over special rules and to remove all doubts, especially if you go for the #1 spot and know the top10 are sticky grounds.

Now, if the creator's are willing to make comments about actions they are watching out for, why could they have not worded it such as "to those thinking about farming either ships or asteroids - remember the great eye is ever watchful". By adding those four little words, there would have been no debate about this whatsoever.

Basically because they calculate on the intelligence of the ppl playing this game, i honestly doubt rabba would like it how you describe him here and i honestly doubt he as the leading WP hc never saw a log of a CH never visited the portal never visited the Overview. Because if you claim so its debateable if he would have read the useragreement either or "understood it".
On the otherhand Creators have the "judge" function here, so infact they are not the "accusers" or the "defenders" of a case, they have the find the final result for it. And this results is undebateable, because there is no higher jury who could challenge that.
You might debate how unfair this is but i think that goes now far off the point, because shipfarming was illegal and you cant claim that those rules apply only if you bother to look for them or if your views and definitions match with the creators.
I guess its valid to throw up certain scenarios here to defend or to damn his actions. But as i have not seen rabba raising his word here, i guess he will have it sorted with creators.
The facts remain, that he did something which was by common sense and towards a majority of players well known illegal. Ppl were closed for less and deleted for far less and imo (my personal view) the #1 planet has the obligation to be 150% pure just because he is the one all are looking on (quests) and because he is the "example" everyone measures at.
I havent gotten into this much myself so i wont judge rabba from the facts i have seen here on the forums, but afterall this is like football only a game, if the referee says goal its a goal and if he says foul its a foul, There is no 100% right or wrong as we all know if u want to cheat and plan it you can do much better then that without getting caught. So i will only say, we all should maybe let the authorities and Rabba sort that between themself and give ourself a break, because we neitehr will change the results nor would we do rabba a favour with it.

[Sugar]

Originally posted by Valvalis
If the question is do I break the rules? then the answer is a resounding no.

.

[Tin-Tin]

Ah well.. I don't post much on forums.. I don't read much on forums, never read the user agreement. Seldom attend CH, even more seldom read CH at portal. I read manual sometimes though..and I get to know what I need to know through gal-mates and such.

People says that what was on overview should've made u curious about what was legal and not.. bah.. to me farming always was about roids. So I didn't give it a second thought when I saw it on overview. So maybe we all should've read everything,everywhere.. and dug up all ch u missed and such.
Wouldn't it be nice though that important rules like this was _clearly_ put both in overview, manual and wherever.. I bet it wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to implement it when it should've been. And now, since it wasn't implemented properly, the whole community,yes the whole community, will suffer from it.

The creators haven't done their job properly, how can they expect us to do so? Yes, an hc is expected to know all there is. Yet they too are human. I never knew until today that farming ships was not allowed, so I'm not the most informed person.. but did creators do a half-decent job informing me? No, they did just as poor a job as me. And I could've easily been deleted if I was a Zik and fleet-farmed. Having said that, I'm against fleet-farming.Always has been.

CLEAR RULES FFS, A BASIS OF A GAME.

[lokken]

Originally posted by Perfection

With regards Paragraph 1, i would argue the contrary. Creators hour normally consists of 500 people, while the player base is made up of 4500. Clearly there is a discrepancy there.

With regards Para 2, i think your analysis is wrong again. The creators are indeed only burdened with taking reasonable steps to notify everyone. But the answering of 1 question, which incidently could be disregarded as either being a direct reply to 1 person not the group (unlikely but arguable) or either that it showed no initiative on the behalf of the creators (more likely), should not amount to reasonabe steps.

With regards Para 3, yes.

I don't think that's true - it is available for everyone to read it, on a site run by the creators for the purposes of the game. So is the user agreement, saying that you can be deleted for any reason deemed appropriate by the creators. The Creators Hour merely communicated that farming would be deemed 'appropriate'. No one ever reads the user agreement, or the creators hour logs, their availability is enough.

It doesn't matter how the steps have been taken - as long as the information has been given out it doesn't matter, because it's there. Does any read contract terms when they buy something? No, but they are there, and that's enough, even if they have done it by 'accident' as you probably rightly claim.

I'm sorry, but I'm not very sympathetic to any argument that suggests that the rule didn't exist and that it wasn't communicated. It's been common knowledge that the activity was illegal, the user agreement always allowed deletion for any reason (which really should be enough, as long as a good reason is given) and the creators made their thoughts known on the subject via a PUBLIC media, known as creators hour.

My main conclusions are:

- that the creators should be more careful in presenting the rules, and that they've been slightly inept in pointing them out even though they have.

- that the rules have been well known for a while, the farming issue is a position that's been restated every round since it was illegalised as illegal and that any attempt to try and worm out of it is just that, when it's clear that the rules have been breached.

[AnteValente]

One down, way to many to go.

[gzambo]

Originally posted by Tin-Tin
Ah well.. I don't post much on forums.. I don't read much on forums, never read the user agreement. Seldom attend CH, even more seldom read CH at portal. I read manual sometimes though..and I get to know what I need to know through gal-mates and such.

People says that what was on overview should've made u curious about what was legal and not.. bah.. to me farming always was about roids. So I didn't give it a second thought when I saw it on overview. So maybe we all should've read everything,everywhere.. and dug up all ch u missed and such.
Wouldn't it be nice though that important rules like this was _clearly_ put both in overview, manual and wherever.. I bet it wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to implement it when it should've been. And now, since it wasn't implemented properly, the whole community,yes the whole community, will suffer from it.

The creators haven't done their job properly, how can they expect us to do so? Yes, an hc is expected to know all there is. Yet they too are human. I never knew until today that farming ships was not allowed, so I'm not the most informed person.. but did creators do a half-decent job informing me? No, they did just as poor a job as me. And I could've easily been deleted if I was a Zik and fleet-farmed. Having said that, I'm against fleet-farming.Always has been.

CLEAR RULES FFS, A BASIS OF A GAME.

not making yourself knowledgable of the rule of the game you are playing cannot be acceptabel as an excuse for cheating

[Confraria]

this thread should have 2 posts: one from Cochese presenting the evidences and the other from Prince saying "we'll check it out and if its true his planet wont survive another tick. all the rest is just blablabla...


Go Get a Life.

[Mosier]

Doesn't anyone see how dirty this whole situation is? What you people are doing here on AD is worse than farming 50 demeters.

Doesn't anyone remember WHY the message on overview about the great eye being ever-watching was there? It wasnt referring to Rabba, wolfpack, or even weet. But now that nar is losing the war, people have lost interest enough to forget, I suppose.

Prince made a decision about Rabba's planet after the evidence against him was turned in (by vvomm HC), and less than a day later, he changed the decision because of the vultures on this board. You can't bring down the top planet, but you sure can complain enough to make a brand-new "creator" close it, just to shut you up.

Prince, grow a spine. AD jerked you around and forced you into a decision that you did not intend to make. If you're going to close planets, then close them because they're cheating, not because the leaders of that player's enemies demand it. Take a hard look at some vvomm gals that are making amazing "comebacks" since weet stopped pummeling them. Amazing how they can be forced to recall from defense at Rabba's gal in the same night that they gain 80 roids from a newbie in a random gal that runs against nothing but 30 astropods, isnt it?

You people make me sick, and all I can say is that I'm glad you represent only a small percentage of the people that play this game.

[Biggdogg]

Yes, represents those who think that people who cheat should be deleted. What a novel concept.

[Sun_Tzu]

/me walks up to the mike
*ahem* As a regular at the Strategy Forums I would like to state that the creators have been, are and will allways be a source of immense irritation and disbelief for us common players. Cochese might want to tap himself on the shoulder but he's far from the first to report Rabba, and for that mather there are many others which are more than suspicious and are still out there. I supose news-scanning the top100 planets and top20 gals each day is too much to ask for, though then again if players close to a cheater aren't taken seriously I supose news scans may as well be ignored. Thank you
/me steps down from the podium

[Tin-Tin]

Originally posted by gzambo
not making yourself knowledgable of the rule of the game you are playing cannot be acceptabel as an excuse for cheating

-----------
Where did I say that cheating could be excused?
I'm saying that such an important, and new rule should be made more clear. Don't put words into my mouth, ta

[Rampage]

The art of agriculture persists

I had a .. slight suspicion what this might be about, and oooh yes heh, planetarion never changes..

happy farming ;p

[Terminator2003]

Originally posted by N0VA
"blah"

Nova, a couple of things.

- Very noble of you to defend your r/l mate and former galmate so fiercely. I am afraid however your friendship and comradery is blurring your vision and nullifies any chance of making an objective stand in this situation and thus giving a correct opinion, one that objective, or othersided subjective people, would be open too.

- Second, I wonder how someone that has quit PA halfway R8, is baby-sitting a planet only for a week or so (hey, isn't that illegal btw?) comes onto AD joining a discussion on what is illegal and PA and what isn't. If you don't play the game, how can you have a correct gripe on whats hot and whats not atm?

- Cheating, even tho not 'clearly stated' in the rules, is sad and should be punished by the PA crew, see point 7, in their discretion. Claiming that the cheating was not clearly stated in their rules, or ignorance, are BS excuses IMO.

- Your friend rabba was bashed in previous rounds and I can imagine his defeat in R7 and R8 made him bitter and it looks like he decided to give himself a little boost in his plans for universal domination this round..

Nuff said.

On to the next cheater/farmer/sharer.. DELETION TIME

[Terminator2003]

Originally posted by Mosier

You people make me sick, and all I can say is that I'm glad you represent only a small percentage of the people that play this game.

Good point.

I've actually seem some posts on here from people 'hurraying' the closing of Rabba, while they are farming themself. It's sickening.. then again, humankind is sickening.

[TheBull]

Well i'll be reading the R10 user agreement. If cheaters are not going to be deleted i'll find a new game. This is nutz to let the planet remain open.

BTW, what happened to the farms? deleted? got their ships back? WHAT the got the roids too! (kinda kidding).

TheBull

[NIN]

Originally posted by Confraria
this thread should have 2 posts: one from Cochese presenting the evidences and the other from Prince saying "we'll check it out and if its true his planet wont survive another tick. all the rest is just blablabla...


Go Get a Life.

u just took words from me mouth

[NIN]

Originally posted by Biggdogg
Yes, represents those who think that people who cheat should be deleted. What a novel concept.

listen to this man..he has been around for ages now...