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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 19:42   #151
Patrikc
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
the second they let the worst FC in history of mankind land on hanzi, well I knew it was over.
I told them eta 8 and eta 7 to cover the shit cause it was an FC, but no one bothered to send. I later tried to organize a big wave on benneh, but 90% of the apprime said they would rather send on some easy shit at night instead of waiting till we got our shit home in the morning.
I didn't even know it was an FC till I saw his valuedrop on sandmans. And I'm one of the more active people in there.

So I'm interested to hear who you told it was a fleetcatch.

Also would like that 90% list of Apprime.
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 20:01   #152
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I said it in gal chan, and in my bg chan.
maybe not 90%, but way too many
30 people or so, someone should have taken inititative
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Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 20:24   #153
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Cutting straight to the heart of the issue then: if there is a fleetcatch in Planetarion but patrikc doesn't hear of it does it make a sound?
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 20:47   #154
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Well there definitely was an aftershock. ^^
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 20:58   #155
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by tetrac View Post
Evolution could side with them and Apprime may take the round but they won't have earned it, unless they show some skill/activity Apprime winning the round due to block wouldn't sit well with me.
Evo is so fat that if they teamed up with app we would probably improve because our targets have gotten so much juicier!!!
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 21:28   #156
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Evo is so fat that if they teamed up with app we would probably improve because our targets have gotten so much juicier!!!
nah, if evo teamed with apprime, then you would be too busy hitting apprime to keep them down while evo would stay pretty safe, and get nice gains from asc planets, as you would prefer to def vs apprime.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 21:30   #157
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I for one am in agreement. As a matter of fact I vote that next round everyone should try to help wishmaster as much as possible. I mean heaven forbid he doesn't get to go through a round whoring def and 3 fleeting while avoiding incs consistently. After all it's our job, no our duty, no our whole raison d'etre to make his pa experience as enjoyable as possible. Let everyone bar 1 guy nap wishmaster and then let us all escort him on this 1 unfortunate soul for the entire round. We may not enjoy it but the important thing is that wishmaster will get to feel like he's managed to accomplish something at the end of it.
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 21:35   #158
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
nah, if evo teamed with apprime, then you would be too busy hitting apprime to keep them down while evo would stay pretty safe, and get nice gains from asc planets, as you would prefer to def vs apprime.
I thought it was very obvious I was joking
on the other hand the real point that all Evo does in fighting us is imperil their currently very pleasant situation, it can be argued our domination imperils that but as long as it is true we have to hit apprime first it is also true we are not dominating enough to be a real pain to evo if they stay neutral - ofc if they do stay neutral then that point where we dont have to keep our eye constantly on apprime comes faster but we have a finite amount of time, is it worth the gamble?
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 21:54   #159
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I thought it was very obvious I was joking
on the other hand the real point that all Evo does in fighting us is imperil their currently very pleasant situation, it can be argued our domination imperils that but as long as it is true we have to hit apprime first it is also true we are not dominating enough to be a real pain to evo if they stay neutral - ofc if they do stay neutral then that point where we dont have to keep our eye constantly on apprime comes faster but we have a finite amount of time, is it worth the gamble?
I don't see the peril for evo tbh if they hit Asc.

The only peril is after either side wins and comes looking for the easiest roids.

Everyone benefits from Asc and App continuing to fight each other, nobody wants one side to win.
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 22:04   #160
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I for one am in agreement. As a matter of fact I vote that next round everyone should try to help wishmaster as much as possible. I mean heaven forbid he doesn't get to go through a round whoring def and 3 fleeting while avoiding incs consistently. After all it's our job, no our duty, no our whole raison d'etre to make his pa experience as enjoyable as possible. Let everyone bar 1 guy nap wishmaster and then let us all escort him on this 1 unfortunate soul for the entire round. We may not enjoy it but the important thing is that wishmaster will get to feel like he's managed to accomplish something at the end of it.
Can that 1 guy be you?
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Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 22:12   #161
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Tetrac: did u miss the whole post?
my point was as long as Apprime is such a treat that Evo wont get hit by asc they dont need to hit asc at all because the current status quo continues. Doing this is a gamble on their part.
While logically Asc would probably hit Apprime in any such war evo cant be totally certain; Evo would be worth hitting to give us some roids back, especially as they are top in roids. The Strategic position that we must hit Apprime actually therefore better fits anyone but Evo who are the best targets other than Apprime. If all that stops ppl attacking us is that we might hit them surely we must hit Evo as soon as they enter the war or else everyone else will, a deterrant we cant exersise is no deterrent at all. Thus all the things that point to a risk free war are not so one sided as they seem, they rely on us acting in the way you assume. There is nothing Asc must do at all, the imperatives are strong in both directions, faced with many enemys traditionally the best move is to knock one out quick, after 9 days App isnt knocked out so they are not an option for such a strategy.
If Apprime really are as demoralised as Wishmaster claims then to ally with them and assume they take the heat is a gamble equal to staying uninvolved.
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 22:31   #162
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
If all that stops ppl attacking us is that we might hit them surely we must hit Evo as soon as they enter the war or else everyone else will, a deterrant we cant exersise is no deterrent at all. Thus all the things that point to a risk free war are not so one sided as they seem, they rely on us acting in the way you assume.
Mutual assured destruction (MAD) only works when both sides have something to lose, Evo will never win the round and since thats the only thing anyone really cares about nobody other than Asc and App has anything to lose.
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 22:42   #163
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Mutual assured destruction (MAD) only works when both sides have something to lose, Evo will never win the round and since thats the only thing anyone really cares about nobody other than Asc and App has anything to lose.
WHAT?
ppl dont only care for ally win or no-one would join allys that have no hope of winning, and 3/4 ppl join these allies.
Everyone has plenty to lose, ppl do care for their own roids - indeed they only ignore their own welfare if it can be subsumed in winning as ally or gal so an ally like evo has more to lose on the personal front.
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 22:44   #164
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
WHAT?
ppl dont only care for ally win or no-one would join allys that have no hope of winning, and 3/4 ppl join these allies.
Everyone has plenty to lose, ppl do care for their own roids - indeed they only ignore their own welfare if it can be subsumed in winning as ally or gal so an ally like evo has more to lose on the personal front.
People play for the fun inbetween.
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 23:08   #165
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

The point at issue is:
Either
Evo has something to lose, if so they can be deterred
OR
Evo has nothing to lose, then they cannot be deterred but they dont have any reason to act either.
U certainly cant have it both ways.
And it certainly is not MAD which only works if it is mutually assured and neither can win - a nuclear scenario; this is just plain old deterrence - we can hurt u as much as u can gain so dont bother.
Whatever the situation Evo is not the one to do it. As the fattest of the allies who are in between they have both the most to lose and the most incentive for us to directly take them on instead of Apprime should they get involved. If they want to use Apps number 2 position as a shield then VsN or p3n are in a rather better position.
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Unread 29 Sep 2009, 23:25   #166
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Why are people getting their knickers in a twist over a lousy 3.2 million points?

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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 01:09   #167
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Can that 1 guy be you?
I'd say okay but I'd probably end up beating you and that would be even more embarrassing than round 30 and I just don't think I could live with myself after doing that to another human being
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 01:42   #168
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I d like to say no, but its likely you would! I d get closed probably, being the compulsive cheater that I apparently am according to you.

oh, also why are asc prodding 100% in light factories atm? I just scanned the lot of ya! FCing I spose
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Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 01:52   #169
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Man, apprime's support planets are more dedicated than their actual planets
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 01:59   #170
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Ye, this is what I whined about earlier up here!
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Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 05:28   #171
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

me and pommeh just sat here laughing at the worst attack ever on you jbg.
out of like 12 people, 3 actually showed up to launch on you <3
back to bed and back to realising how shit people are at pa.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 05:36   #172
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I should be annoyed considering the time i put in I mean... *sigh*

I just can't stop laughing about it, that jgp will haunt me for the rest of the this round

Who needs PL ghosts when you've got vsn as an enemy?.. Have a good nights sleep JBG, you've earned it <3
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 09:02   #173
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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They seemed to stop when Vision decided it preferred easy roids, so if VsN joined em again they might show some fight again.
As I said yesterday morning: VsN rejoin the fight and suddenly all bets are off.

I rather doubt JBG slept soundly.
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 13:49   #174
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Oh man Hanzi got his Co FCed by Cr? after talking big on the forums for so long? ahahahaha. I'm almost regretting not playing this round. Someone give me his co ords please!
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 14:47   #175
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I should be annoyed considering the time i put in I mean... *sigh*

I just can't stop laughing about it, that jgp will haunt me for the rest of the this round

Who needs PL ghosts when you've got vsn as an enemy?.. Have a good nights sleep JBG, you've earned it <3
I had to dc for the rest of the gal

That was a good wave though. I even sent out my own ghosts in def I was so confident* the single cath who could actually solo roid me would just recall anyways.





*I was actually crying like a girl
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 14:56   #176
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I had to dc for the rest of the gal

That was a good wave though. I even sent out my own ghosts in def I was so confident* the single cath who could actually solo roid me would just recall anyways.





*I was actually crying like a girl
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It was worth It this morning though, waking upto the bombardment of excuses in PMs....

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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 15:17   #177
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I approve of your signature pommeh!
We really need to start to appreciate him!
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 15:24   #178
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Asc+DLR+P3ng vs App+Vision last night?
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 15:28   #179
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Asc+DLR+P3ng vs App+Vision last night?
something like that; DLR has switched sides so much they cant be pigeonholed by what they did one night tho, its clear they have no intention of a long term commitment.
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 15:30   #180
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I'll hit Asc if you ask nicely
And how can you fc CO with CR?
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 15:31   #181
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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something like that; DLR has switched sides so much they cant be pigeonholed by what they did one night tho, its clear they have no intention of a long term commitment.
They rickrolled you?
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 15:35   #182
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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And how can you fc CO with CR?
With surprising ease apparently!

Perhaps I should have said DLR has been more noticeable as incomings than as support; last night any aid by DLR was simply because we spread rumors in their direction that app would be vulnerable because they were TAing us. And not any reflection of any DLR shift in policy afaik.
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 16:07   #183
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Apparently you managed to get your hands on some new type of CR ships that target CO. Hackers!
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Unread 30 Sep 2009, 16:08   #184
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by tetrac View Post
Asc+DLR+P3ng vs App+Vision last night?
I don't think the fact apprime have made their planets build these anti-ascendancy pk/bomber type fleets which are hilariously more vulnerable to etd bs than the standard cr heavy type is the same thing as somehow joining a block ala vision and apprime where you see quite a number of joint waves throughout the day.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 14:40   #185
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I don't think the fact apprime have made their planets build these anti-ascendancy pk/bomber type fleets which are hilariously more vulnerable to etd bs than the standard cr heavy type is the same thing as somehow joining a block ala vision and apprime where you see quite a number of joint waves throughout the day.
I take it you meant my gal; we built that assuming Apprime would hit Asc with pk+fr and fakes, leaving Cr for def. Then cardi sends the whole ally's fleets to 9:7.

A bad day it was indeed!
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 15:57   #186
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I take it you meant my gal; we built that assuming Apprime would hit Asc with pk+fr and fakes, leaving Cr for def. Then cardi sends the whole ally's fleets to 9:7.

A bad day it was indeed!
No, it's about all of apprime. They have built anti asc fleets, leaving themselfs very open to the rest of the uni. And still wonder why they face more inc with their poor fleets than asc is. I'm frankly surprised certain apprime planets with piss poor fleets aren't getting more inc.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 16:24   #187
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

That's debatable. If Apprime want to beat Ascendancy, they need to be able to roid Ascendancy, so optimizing your fleet to roid Asc planets is not a bad idea. And implying that Apprime is getting more incs because of their fleet composition is untrue. There are many other reasons which have a bigger impact. For example:
- Vision are 5th and don't have as much firepower as 3rd ranked p3nguins
- DLR has been hitting both Apprime and Ascendancy, but lately more the first one than the second one.
- Evolution are also hitting Apprime lately, not directly, but definitely much more apprime than asc.
- Apprime HC is not as good at politics as Asc HC.
- Some Apprime top guys seem to have gone inactive, Cardi has been deleted, etc.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 16:29   #188
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Gio2k U realise all that just confirms what JBG & Golan said?
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 16:36   #189
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

How so?
Fleet composition is not the reason Evolution is hitting Apprime for example. That logic is flawed.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 16:37   #190
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
That's debatable. If Apprime want to beat Ascendancy, they need to be able to roid Ascendancy, so optimizing your fleet to roid Asc planets is not a bad idea. And implying that Apprime is getting more incs because of their fleet composition is untrue. There are many other reasons which have a bigger impact. For example:
- Vision are 5th and don't have as much firepower as 3rd ranked p3nguins
- DLR has been hitting both Apprime and Ascendancy, but lately more the first one than the second one.
- Evolution are also hitting Apprime lately, not directly, but definitely much more apprime than asc.
- Apprime HC is not as good at politics as Asc HC.
- Some Apprime top guys seem to have gone inactive, Cardi has been deleted, etc.
It's not, I'll run through it quickly:

Vision dropped from 2nd/3rd because they kept attacking/crashing on ascendancy, turning themselfs into a support alliance for apprime and barely gaining roids in doing so. Both p3n hc's I've talked to have said their alliance is much worse than last round, esp on attack coverage.

**** knows what dlr hits, this round it seems like mostly small gals and from time to time fat planets in gals already with inc. It's quite clear that apprime has a lot less anti bs defense, thus they are more likely to get hit.

We had evo hit with us 1 night afaik, but again apprime fleets are dictating evo will have an easier time hitting them than asc. Evo are also in perfect shape to hit an etd alliance like DLR with their many fi/co fleets.

Politics is just a small part, in the end everyone wants to hit easier targets, fact is, apprime have been that all through the war with a big amount of emp planets and poor fleets on the xans.

Cardi resigned up and built 100k peacekeepers himself and nothing else, says enough about sticking to failed tactics. They have kicked people but somehow still seem to be at the 70 mark so must have been recruiting to fill any gaps.

In the end, apprime went into the war with more value, roids and other alliance flak and still lost. How on earth would this not be linked to something as sensitive as fleet combination?
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Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 16:53   #191
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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If Apprime want to beat Ascendancy, they need to be able to roid Ascendancy, so optimizing your fleet to roid Asc planets is not a bad idea.
Doing ANYTHING based entirely on fighting one out of 10 credible threats is just plain begging to lose in the long run. What does it matter if Asc is 75% of your attackers if the other 25% go through you like a hot knife through butter? Not being as focused in core gals means than App will get far more random incs, those are also better able to deal with bad fleet compositions thus launch on the apps ingal more than they otherwise might and its those that have been the feather that broke the camels back imo.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 18:25   #192
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Doing ANYTHING based entirely on fighting one out of 10 credible threats is just plain begging to lose in the long run. What does it matter if Asc is 75% of your attackers if the other 25% go through you like a hot knife through butter? Not being as focused in core gals means than App will get far more random incs, those are also better able to deal with bad fleet compositions thus launch on the apps ingal more than they otherwise might and its those that have been the feather that broke the camels back imo.
1 out of 10 credible threats? I'd actually say the only credible threat is Ascendancy, so optimizing my fleet to roid Ascendancy still seems like a good idea to me. Also note that optimizing my roiding fleet does not automatically mean i am opening myself to other attacks. On the other hand, allowing those Asc xan fortress gals to keep growing stronger and stronger is really begging to lose in the long run.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 18:26   #193
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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- Some Apprime top guys seem to have gone inactive, crashed fleets, Cardi has been deleted, etc.
Added a bit for you there
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 18:37   #194
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I m looking forward to part of the round where the fence alliances now get roided to the ground by asc <3
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 19:15   #195
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I honestly dont see that happening. Two weeks left, war still going on full force.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 19:46   #196
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
1 out of 10 credible threats? I'd actually say the only credible threat is Ascendancy, so optimizing my fleet to roid Ascendancy still seems like a good idea to me. Also note that optimizing my roiding fleet does not automatically mean i am opening myself to other attacks. On the other hand, allowing those Asc xan fortress gals to keep growing stronger and stronger is really begging to lose in the long run.
youve changed your tune
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 20:13   #197
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
I m looking forward to part of the round where the fence alliances now get roided to the ground by asc <3
Might be smart to nap Asc then?
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 20:47   #198
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
1 out of 10 credible threats?
Good greif! I dont mean 10 allies could beat Apprime, they cant but they can all roid apprime. Focusing to fight Ascendancy while leaving ur flank wide open is absurd; by doing so apprime made an artificial weakness Ascendancy dosent need to lift a finger to exploit.
There are a dozen sides here not two.

some time ago u made the point urself other allies were hitting App harder than Asc; thats proof in itself that App has hurt itself by its fleets.
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Last edited by [B5]Londo; 1 Oct 2009 at 21:14.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 21:07   #199
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

thing is londo, that apprime get random incs cause they dont have fortress gals which are pure xan.
Thats why. The fact that their fleets sucks doesnt matter that much.
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 21:32   #200
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I mentioned fortresses as a contributing factor early on, R U trying to say u dont like to hit ppl with sucky fleets?
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