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Unread 13 Aug 2009, 20:16   #101
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
What exactly was it about your politics that they objected to?
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Unread 13 Aug 2009, 20:21   #102
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Venox:

I was commenting on HRH's statement, in which he was implying that CT was not well run, but alliances that make a successfully manoeuvre similar situations are. I was not saying xVx are better than CT (though they are). It would perhaps have been better to have said "So xVx > CT?".
I know thats exactly what you meant. Is my reply any less valid because you thought that I thought wrong, no, it's exactly the same either way. Let me add one word just to clarify, I'm sure you weren't incapable of doing so yourself but to avoid pedantics.

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xVx practically gave up everyday running of the alliance to a foreign group of players, I wouldn't say this made them better run than CT although it definitely would have made integration better on our part.
xVx allowed themselves to be used by a foreign group of players to meet their own goals for the round, it's no shame on CT to not allow this to happen. I would definitely not say that xVx are better run than CT because their HC are more submissive (which is basically the argument here). I do however agree with Heartless about trust although I don't feel necessarily feel CT ever distrusted us as a group. The fact that we'd played the previously round in a more "asc style" system in evo where everyone had full access to everything etc probably didn't help when moving back to the more.. "structured".. type of alliance in terms of enjoyment/motivation factor.
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Unread 13 Aug 2009, 20:31   #103
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
What exactly was it about your politics that they objected to?
I am not entirely sure, obviously, you will have to talk to said players themselves but I would assume "politics" is maybe slightly the wrong word and instead "attitude" would be more apt.

The night the 3 of them left though was the night that CT/Peng hit Ascendancy for the first time instead of Apprime, allowing Apprime to full fleet CT in return with no incoming of their own. I pretty much quit trying to help CT win after explaining how retarded hitting the #6 (at the time) alliance was for 3 hours that evening and being ignored by ignorant/stubborn retards who thought I was just trying to protect Reese/eksero from incoming. Anyone who actually knew me (and trusted me) would know that if hitting my friends galaxy is in the best interests of my alliance I would be the first to set up the raid. I guess the 3 in question would have been pretty annoyed about this too since I was bitching about it in gal channel all evening.
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Unread 13 Aug 2009, 20:57   #104
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
I know thats exactly what you meant. Is my reply any less valid because you thought that I thought wrong, no, it's exactly the same either way. Let me add one word just to clarify, I'm sure you weren't incapable of doing so yourself but to avoid pedantics.
But it most definitely did made them better run (or made them run better, whichever one you prefer) than CT in the same situation, which is exactly what I was (and you weren't) saying.

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
xVx allowed themselves to be used by a foreign group of players to meet their own goals for the round, it's no shame on CT to not allow this to happen. I would definitely not say that xVx are better run than CT because their HC are more submissive (which is basically the argument here).
Personally I think the Liths used xVx as much as xVx used the Liths. The Liths wanted a place where they could play together without having to bother with many of the issues involved in setting up a new hierarchic alliance (i.e. tools and to an extent pre-round politics and command structure). xVx wanted competent BCs and HCs to lead their alliance to a good finishing position. Both sides got what they wanted, though obviously they'll always want more.

I don't think it's inherently submissive to recognise that the group you're taking in is more skilled at the game than you are (but only if you do it correctly!).

All that said, I specifically did not conclude that xVx was a better alliance based on how they handled the Liths, compared to how CT handled Evo. I based that conclusion on the general performance of CT in the second half of every round since r26, at least. The only way they would've gained points in my book is if they hadn't failed again this round, and they would have had a better chance of that, if they'd taken you in better.
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Unread 13 Aug 2009, 22:27   #105
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Re: What happened with ct today?

I'm not sure why this is much a debate, but just to wade in:

xVx last round were better run unit than CT are now. Yes they had cardinal on board but cardinal can run a competent ship. LDK planets got defence, xVx had the benefit of having LDK to boost them and add expertise. CT's playing style is very negative in terms of that they don't go after enemies too much so if you join CT, you should pretty much be expecting that. If you're a group looking to play in a different way to the alliance you're joining, then it's a recipe for disaster. LDK on the other hand just joined another alliance and built it around them, while leaving certain decisions in the hands of the original HC. Cost them the round, but in terms of day to day running, it was effective.

CT, however, could never make as catastrophic a mistake such as turning down a free win. Regardless of how bad anyone thinks they are.
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Unread 13 Aug 2009, 23:08   #106
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
CT, however, could never make as catastrophic a mistake such as turning down a free win. Regardless of how bad anyone thinks they are.
But that's only because CT can only get a free win when nobody else is left playing the game, apart from them.
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Unread 14 Aug 2009, 01:35   #107
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Re: What happened with ct today?

Pretty sure CT has won a round allready, and took a uni block to stop them r24.
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Unread 14 Aug 2009, 08:54   #108
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Re: What happened with ct today?

They won one of the worst (alliance-wise) rounds in PA history where the other competitors were VGN (lol) and an alliance made for the purpose of flagshipping Caj.
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Unread 14 Aug 2009, 12:58   #109
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I was commenting on HRH's statement, in which he was implying that CT was not well run, but alliances that successfully manoeuvre similar situations are.
I honestly wasn't trying to imply anything about CT although it is true I suspect they are not well enough run to withstand the effects of recruiting a bunch of mercenary misfits that have no alliance loyalty whatsoever, and are just looking for a bunch of mugs to defend them.

Ironically, I think there is possibly only one alliance that could manage such a group of people and exploit any talent they had for their own ends, while protecting themselves from the obvious risks inherent in working with such members.

That alliance would be yours.
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Unread 14 Aug 2009, 13:09   #110
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Re: What happened with ct today?

Its also worth making a distinction between the case where the "host" alliance is attempting to take in the close-knit group yet retain its own identity, ethos and aims, and the case where the close-knit group effectively completely takes over the alliance and enforces /their/ identity ethos and aims.

In the latter case I think the relationship is liable to be more successful for all parties.
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Unread 14 Aug 2009, 14:22   #111
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
They won one of the worst (alliance-wise) rounds in PA history where the other competitors were VGN (lol) and an alliance made for the purpose of flagshipping Caj.
I'd just like to point out that VGN has also won a round (R24 IIRC) - and without compromising any of its principles to do it.
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Unread 14 Aug 2009, 15:55   #112
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by cha^ View Post
None of you doesnt really seem to have a clue about the reason why we left so
You left the night you got roided and emo'd the whole way out the door.
I don't care if it was the straw that broke that camels back, you left after you were roided plain and simple.
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 01:31   #113
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
You left the night you got roided and emo'd the whole way out the door.
I don't care if it was the straw that broke that camels back, you left after you were roided plain and simple.
The 3 who left tag had wanted to do so since tick 2-300 or so, it took constant stroking by several people to keep them in tag that long.

Kila: Unlike Asc on the other hand, who have beaten every great PA alliance over the last year or so, right? Dude, at the end of the day, they beat everyone put before them, stfu.

Amion: Pretty sure r24 was won by ND, which i may point out to kila, was supported by an almost universal block, which was needed to stop CT from winning.
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 08:43   #114
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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I'd just like to point out that VGN has also won a round (R24 IIRC) - and without compromising any of its principles to do it.
VGN won r22
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 09:28   #115
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
The 3 who left tag had wanted to do so since tick 2-300 or so, it took constant stroking by several people to keep them in tag that long.

Kila: Unlike Asc on the other hand, who have beaten every great PA alliance over the last year or so, right? Dude, at the end of the day, they beat everyone put before them, stfu.

Amion: Pretty sure r24 was won by ND, which i may point out to kila, was supported by an almost universal block, which was needed to stop CT from winning.
Dude, they won a round, who the **** cares which one, it was insignificant/shit anyway
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 12:14   #116
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Amion: Pretty sure r24 was won by ND, which i may point out to kila, was supported by an almost universal block, which was needed to stop CT from winning.
Yes. you're right - I meant R22. (I was at work when I posted that reply - I keep my PA records at home).
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 12:15   #117
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Re: What happened with ct today?

Kila, I expect your attitude to others is one of the reasons you have so many friends.

Make an effort - and try not to belittle the achievements of the smaller alliances.
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 12:42   #118
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Re: What happened with ct today?

"I have more friends than you", how about you call all your friends and I'll call all mine and we'll have a massive fight and settle this like men?
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 12:45   #119
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Re: What happened with ct today?

How about we stop talking less like we're in kindergarten?

Bored of this 'friends' crap already.
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 23:57   #120
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Re: What happened with ct today?

kindergarden cop?
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Unread 16 Aug 2009, 01:00   #121
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Re: What happened with ct today?

[mz]Just in case you were wondering, that wasn't a friendly suggestion Lokken made there. Knock it off.
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Unread 16 Aug 2009, 12:14   #122
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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How about we stop talking less like we're in kindergarten?

Bored of this 'friends' crap already.
Bored of this "all allys stinks" crap already
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Unread 17 Aug 2009, 12:39   #123
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post

Make an effort - and try not to belittle the achievements of the smaller alliances.
Sorry, I had to laugh at this.

VGN calling CT a smaller alliance
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Unread 17 Aug 2009, 13:55   #124
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Re: What happened with ct today?

Lol, what a big topic about 3 guys leaving tag.
My reasons for doing it:
- CT didnt deserve round win imo
- This was not my round really and i was kinda inactive already long before i left tag
- Being on high def priority but not getting def didnt make it much better
- I wanted to do something that i never done before :P

I would say, everyone get over it and lets head to round 33!
I wish everyone the best luck for the next round!
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Unread 17 Aug 2009, 14:36   #125
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by BaasB View Post
- CT didnt deserve round win imo
Words fail me.

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Originally Posted by BaasB View Post
i was kinda inactive (...) Being on high def priority
And again!

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Originally Posted by BaasB View Post
- I wanted to do something that i never done before :P
Congratulations, you did it.
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Unread 17 Aug 2009, 20:33   #126
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by Desse View Post
Sorry, I had to laugh at this.

VGN calling CT a smaller alliance
You misunderstand me - I was protesting at someone belittling VGN's achievement in winning R22. (Although the same person also laughed at CT's win).

Looking back up the thread, it seems that you're not the only one that has misunderstood me.
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Unread 18 Aug 2009, 05:01   #127
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Re: What happened with ct today?

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
You misunderstand me - I was protesting at someone belittling VGN's achievement in winning R22.
Why were you protesting at it.
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Unread 18 Aug 2009, 18:49   #128
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Re: What happened with ct today?

Probably because I was their HC at the time.

And (less personally) because I believe alliances (especially "small" ones) deserve credit for their efforts.
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