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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 22:01   #151
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Re: The BNP

Not sure whether that's aimed at me, but either way

Btw, I've co-authored a chapter in this textbook (got my free copy today <3)! How can I be a terrible human being when I'm helping to train future generations of physicists! [yes, saying that here since I have no rl friends to brag to due to me being a terrible human being ]
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 22:05   #152
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Not sure whether that's aimed at me, but either way

Btw, I've co-authored a chapter in this textbook (got my free copy today <3)! How can I be a terrible human being when I'm helping to train future generations of physicists! [yes, saying that here since I have no rl friends to brag to due to me being a terrible human being ]
by Oliver Benson (Humboldt-Universitšt zu Berlin, Germany) & Fritz Henneberger (Humboldt-Universitšt zu Berlin, Germany)

we had a name for people like you in 1918!
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 22:32   #153
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Re: The BNP



Are just emoticon-replies ok on this forum? Just incase they're not I will now google for something randomly funny to share. Hmm, this made me chuckle, was only on the 4th or 5th image results page too! But then I saw this, much better and applicable to 'our' thread (its mine really, all mine).

I think Light needs to reappear and give us something new to discuss about racist politics!
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 22:38   #154
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Re: The BNP

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Are just emoticon-replies ok on this forum?
nope.

on an unrelated note, shit pics are also unacceptable
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 22:44   #155
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Re: The BNP

Wanna see a video of me belly dancing instead then? Or hmm that won't have done my sex appeal for you much, so I'll give this too to balance it out.

Now, I'm off to go through every single one of the BNP's policies and make a post about it all. Maybe. I'm assuming at least some are debatably non-shit.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 22:46   #156
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Re: The BNP

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When you have totally repulsive opinions on soldiers, you really lose the right to call me a terrible human being for my totally repulsive opinions on whats good for the economy. Infact, since I am not a BNP voter and hate their more racist policies myself, ...
Well I think that your opinions about protestors are totally repulsive so there's no easy way to resolve this.

I wouldn't say that soldiers were that criminal tbh, mostly they just don't know what they're doing and are ignorant of the terrible crimes they're commiting. Which is a defence, of a moral kind if not a legal kind. Luckily for them state-sponsored murder is perfectly legal
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 23:29   #157
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Bnp policies review

So, this post is based on http://bnp.org.uk/policies/ - the BNP's policies as listed on their site. I will paraphrase the policies (so you're best off reading it yourself than taking my word for it), and give my view <3

Immigration:

Policy: A little summary of this thread I guess. BNP want to close our borders (racist against EVERYONE, including our own type of race), but also want to make non-british-ethnics leave the country voluntarily (I bet there will be more coersion that just simply money for them to do this).

My view (and a lot of ppls'): closing borders is brilliant, so long as skilled people can still emigrate over (but not gain citizenship imo, just to work for x years if they like). Useless immigrants in our society should be kicked out of the country. This will be a painstakingly slow progress and, sadly, possibly not feasible at all. However the BNP do go too far, and their policy is based on racist incentives (but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad policies!).

Europe:

Policy: In accordance with their immigration policy, they ofc want to leave the EU. Their policies here are effectively the same as the UKIP's, and those of most of the country (I assume there must be a reason labour keeps refusing to have a referrendum on this!).

My view: I want to leave europe. I DEFINITELY want to keep the pound. I want to regain national pride. Now my feelings on this are obviously fueled by emotions rather than whats actually best for the economy (though some experts will say leaving the EU is bad for the economy, some will say it is good - I am not trained in this area so I will simply just not give an opinion).

Law & Order:

Policy: want to start removing some of our liberties here. I.e. give the law more power to incarcerate people that in the current system, jsut would not happen, and the defendant would probably walk through a technicality. They also want capital punishment for paedophiles, murderers etc.

My view: I love all of these policies - in theory. I do think that in such a system some people would be unfairly incarcerated, farfarfarfarfar more criminals that would ordinarilly be on the street would be in prison. So its a tricky one, but I am in favour. Some things happening in the current system are just wrong though (eg, injuring someone robbing your house and getting sued). As for capital punishment, I am almost opinionless on that. While there will inevitably be the odd mistake made, keeping all these people incarcerated for ages is costing shitloads!! of money. I would rather see them do hard labour to effectively pay for their keep though.

Economy:

Policy: want to stop us exporting and importing so many things. They also want to give job priority to ethnic-brits and break up the supermarket monopolies that are in place atm.

My view: Again, this sounds good to me - but even my non-economical mind is wondering if our economy could survive as an effective isolated state. I doubt it. And yes, though it is racist, job priority should be given to british citizens (I don't go as far as ethnic-brits ), not to recently immigrated people willing to work for far less money.

Education:

Policy: They want discipline in schools and to give power back to the teacher. They want to focus on industrial training and make sure lots of awesome british history is taught to make us feel proud.

My view: AWESOME!! Teachers need more power, its ridiculous atm - and I would argue the sheer HELL kids can get away with at school (as well as in general with police being equally powerless almost) is one of the things leading to a ****ing shit society at the moment. Focussing on industry training is also good - too many people are ending up with useless fkin managerial degrees and other such nonsense. Total waste of time, might as well be doing apprenticeships. That said I'm obviously an academic, so hoping the BNP policy wouldn't afflict me too much. Doubt it will.

Agriculture:

Policy: I dont care.
My view: dont care.

....

That will do for now. ****ing hell, so many damned policies.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 23:36   #158
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Re: The BNP

why do you want to keep the pound?
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 23:40   #159
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Re: The BNP

Well, why not change our flag too? and the national anthem? and so many other things. Quite simply - its one of many things that is 'british'. Everyone world wide knows of the £.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 23:40   #160
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Re: The BNP

Because change is scary.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 23:40   #161
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Well, why not change our flag too? and the national anthem? and so many other things. Quite simply - its one of many things that is 'british'. Everyone world wide knows of the £.
Yeah, why not?
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 23:46   #162
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Well, why not change our flag too? and the national anthem? and so many other things. Quite simply - its one of many things that is 'british'. Everyone world wide knows of the £.


sigh, the flag has no relevance, it doesnt have a bearing on worldwide economics, the anthem also (funnily enough) doesnt have a bearing on worldwide economics. the pound however, does have a bearing on worldwide economics... however, not as much of a bearing as most brits would like to think. why keep the pound? as deepflow says, are you afraid of change? perhaps you think that somehow its superior to any other currency? well, i hate to break it to you, but its not, its just another currency for the markets to dabble in to most of the people (those that actually know what it is) across the world
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 23:56   #163
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Deepflow View Post
Yeah, why not?
Because they mean something to me, and a lot of people. Its all part of being british, as well as many many other things. Stuff like this may not matter to you, but it matters to many. History is what defines a nation, and these all feature throughout our history, and are something that brings national pride to a lot of people.

You may wonder how the **** something like that can bring a feeling of national pride - but I might sit here and say how the **** can photons and accoustic waves coming from the tv excite/interest people? Why? HOW? Our brains are weird huh.

Are you actually british? If so I bet you want the monarchy to piss off as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
sigh, the flag has no relevance, it doesnt have a bearing on worldwide economics
If it is for certain that the £ is having a bad affect on the british economy, then yes - I would be all for getting rid of it. Sadly, that is all opinion atm though. Some experts say one thing, others say something else. Therefore, why get rid of it? Why are you and deepflow so hellbent to get rid of it?

edit: Reminds me of a conversation a while back with JC. He was saying how ditching the £ for the euro would almost certainly help his father out financially (or it would help the company he works for, and thus him). But despite that, even he (his father) would vote to keep the £.

The £ brings national pride to a lot of people, and it is british (not that many things atm are really british anymore ). You would say that is stupid - I would say you people care too much about money, and not what really matters.

Last edited by newt; 10 Jun 2009 at 00:03.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 01:33   #164
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Re: The BNP

I haven't bothered reading the thread because it's probably ****ing dull, but what the **** does this mean?
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I am racist against ethnic groups collectively, but not in the slightest bit against individuals, nor do I stereotype said individuals when I first meet them
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 01:51   #165
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Re: The BNP

I hate manchester united fans - but still somehow I have one or two as friends.

I hate ascendancy - but yet I have some friends in ascendancy.

I hate the scottish - but yet I have a scottish mate.

Capiche? Or more specifically, I do think a lot of this country's problems are caused by immigrants. That is racist. Am I racist against individual immigrants and such - no (in my opinion - I'll gladly force JC to use his forums account to back me up though if you like!).
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 10:03   #166
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Re: The BNP

I happened to catch the end of a programme on BBC1 last night concerning the BNP (I believe it was made in the run-up to the European elections mainly). In it one someone relatively high up within the BNP, I can't recall precisely who but I think he was one of the main organisers in Wales, stated that immigration into the UK actually would be open to Europeans.

I had a look there and found it here. I think you can watch it online if I'm not mistaken! The precise bit I'm referring to is probably 15-20 minutes in. Anyways, it's a pretty interesting look at the BNP regardless.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 10:41   #167
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Re: The BNP

The problem here is, half of you seem to think the human race is somehow spiritually above all other species on this planet. At the end of the day we are animals and our natural instincts lead us to racism, defending of territory etc etc

Society teaches us to be socially accepting of race, so many people have that drummed out of them at an early age. War, well we have an army for that and yes, we do need an army. We have an army so when stupid countries like (past example; Germany) try to invade the world we can defend ourselves and morons like All System Go don't just sit back and do nothing. Sometimes you have to murder or be murdered. I know which I'd do.

I find your opinion of our armed forces insulting to say the least, do you have any appreciation at all for the millions that died so you could live the way you do?

On topic; BNP. In an economic crisis all European right wing parties are doing much stronger, you can all flame and harass newt for being a "racist" or whatever, but the simple fact is the media pushes people into the extremes. I mean, when you look at it Democracy sucks anyway - a government may only get 30% of the vote, that means 60% of us don't want them in charge. Plus nothing ever gets carried out in a suitable time frame.

The media blew the credit crunch out of proportion, now they say we need drastic action, from a strong government. Who could be stronger than the rightest of the right wing parties? Who could take more drastic action? These beliefs are subconsciously pressed into us. Even through films, "V for Vendetta" an awesome film, shows America - a democracy - crushed and struck by civil war. Opposed to Britain, under a dictatorial nazi-style ruling, thriving and powerful. It's even shown in history, Germany was going through rough times before Hitler rose to power, yet in just a few years he made them one of the most powerful countries on the planet.

These are just some of the opinions I've deduced over recent times, I only became 18 last year so this was my first chance to vote. I decided not to because no party has yet "proven" themselves to me, so to speak.

My opinions are possibly naive and based on inexperience, so don't bite me
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 11:02   #168
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Re: The BNP

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The problem here is, half of you seem to think the human race is somehow spiritually above all other species on this planet. At the end of the day we are animals and our natural instincts lead us to racism, defending of territory etc etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

Quote:
I mean, when you look at it Democracy sucks anyway - a government may only get 30% of the vote, that means 60% of us don't want them in charge. Plus nothing ever gets carried out in a suitable time frame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proport...representation

(This is also how the BNP got seats in Europe).

Quote:
These beliefs are subconsciously pressed into us. Even through films, "V for Vendetta" an awesome film, shows America - a democracy - crushed and struck by civil war. Opposed to Britain, under a dictatorial nazi-style ruling, thriving and powerful. It's even shown in history, Germany was going through rough times before Hitler rose to power, yet in just a few years he made them one of the most powerful countries on the planet.
I don't know what's going on in your brain here but I don't think the UK in V for Vendetta and Nazi Germany are your best examples if you want to say we need strong government.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 11:07   #169
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by J
stated that immigration into the UK actually would be open to Europeans.
I hope he meant open in a 'they can apply to emmigrate into britain, but probably get rejected unless they're awesome like Silvio Berlusconi'-way! I might watch it later.

Hi Zeyi! I doubt the points in your post are going to be universally liked here, so welcome to the racist club! Good to see you're willing to sacrifice just about anything to try and impress Light

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I mean, when you look at it Democracy sucks anyway - a government may only get 30% of the vote, that means 60% of us don't want them in charge. Plus nothing ever gets carried out in a suitable time frame.
70%! Zeyi is further proof of what I was talking about 2days ago about education standards But aye you're right, sadly there's no way to avoid it - tis just one of the sad side-effects of our democracy. There will be much bigger problems with any other system (fingers crossed no one asks me what those are or I'll be spending all day glued to google).

Quote:
Even through films, "V for Vendetta" an awesome film
I started watching V for Vendetta once because I like John Hurt & gayboy Fry (yes, I choose films to watch based on the stars casted) - but erm meh. The start was shit and bored me.

Quote:
It's even shown in history, Germany was going through rough times before Hitler rose to power, yet in just a few years he made them one of the most powerful countries on the planet.
Hmmm! Your germany example is certainly correct - beckons the question, are there other examples, and are there any counter examples? Where are the GD historians when you need them. I'm sure Yahwe will give us a helping hand when he gets hoime from work.

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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 11:13   #170
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt
I hope he meant open in a 'they can apply to emmigrate into britain, but probably get rejected unless they're awesome like Silvio Berlusconi'-way I might watch it later
Didn't really sound like it. Most of the documentary concentrated on this dude though. He's an ex-Rhodesian who spent time in South Africa before immigrating to the UK and becoming a key figure in the BNP after meeting Nick Griffin in the USA.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 11:20   #171
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Re: The BNP

The BNP are insane but Europe should keep their ****ing hands off my pint.



I liked some of their promises. Like 'Making neighbours look out for each other; just like they used to'.

Does that mean I get my legs broken by the Britstapo if I forget to bring in my next door neighbour's wheelie bin?
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 11:26   #172
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Re: The BNP

Haha, Sorry for my mathematical fail. That's quite worrying since I wrote that post inbetween questions on a MATHS PAPER. The exam is tomorrow too

JBG, we could throw around links to naturalistic fallacy, moralistic fallacy articles all day long and essentially get no where.

Quote:
I don't know what's going on in your brain here but I don't think the UK in V for Vendetta and Nazi Germany are your best examples if you want to say we need strong government.
I'm not saying we need these things, I'm saying the reason the BNP is getting votes is because of things like this. The media, especially films can leave subconscious beliefs which will later influence our decisions, kind of like subliminal advertising. The Nazi-Germany remark was aimed at showing how strong governments do actually work (not saying I support them) and how history repeats itself.

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proport...representation

(This is also how the BNP got seats in Europe).
The last line implies some kind of sarcasm as if you think I'm perhaps hypocritical?

Re-Read:
Quote:
These are just some of the opinions I've deduced over recent times, I only became 18 last year so this was my first chance to vote. I decided not to because no party has yet "proven" themselves to me, so to speak
I haven't, and wouldn't have voted for the BNP, and have no intention of doing so any time soon.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:04   #173
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by G
Does that mean I get my legs broken by the Britstapo if I forget to bring in my next door neighbour's wheelie bin?
I doubt in this day and age (ie with media coverage of everything and the internet) that Britain could ever turn into a fascism - unless something drastic like a nuclear world war triggers something.

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Originally Posted by Z
Haha, Sorry for my mathematical fail. That's quite worrying since I wrote that post inbetween questions on a MATHS PAPER. The exam is tomorrow too
If the BNP had their way you would probably be studying electrical wiring systems instead, or how to conquer the gag reflex when you're down in the sewers fixing pipes. Or studying how britain wtfpwned the universe in every major conflict we've faught in (I might sound like I'm being sarcastic here, but I'm not!).
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:05   #174
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Zeyi View Post
JBG, we could throw around links to naturalistic fallacy, moralistic fallacy articles all day long and essentially get no where.
I don't know what you mean here. You used fallacious reasoning (1), I pointed it out (2). We're not "getting" anywhere because of (1). Don't do it in future?

Quote:
I'm not saying we need these things, I'm saying the reason the BNP is getting votes is because of things like this. The media, especially films can leave subconscious beliefs which will later influence our decisions, kind of like subliminal advertising.
I find it pretty scary the message you managed to get from V for Vendetta was "strong governments are awesome".

Quote:
The Nazi-Germany remark was aimed at showing how strong governments do actually work (not saying I support them) and how history repeats itself.
What on earth do you mean by "work"? Nazi Germany was a shithole that nobody sane would want to live in unless you planned on being a member of the Nazi party.

Quote:
The last line implies some kind of sarcasm as if you think I'm perhaps hypocritical?
I was just pointing it out actually, no ulterior motives!
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:10   #175
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
What on earth do you mean by "work"? Nazi Germany was a shithole that nobody sane would want to live in unless you planned on being a member of the Nazi party.
From a purely economic point of view, nazi Germany did wonders. However, God its a long time since I studied this, but part of that was prospering due to preparing for world domination (mass ship building and so forth)? hmmm, I'm almost tempted to dig out my old history books, or possibly even google this. But I know you'll do that instead to win the argument, so I won't bother o/
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:19   #176
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
From a purely economic point of view, nazi Germany did wonders. However, God its a long time since I studied this, but part of that was prospering due to preparing for world domination (mass ship building and so forth)? hmmm, I'm almost tempted to dig out my old history books, or possibly even google this. But I know you'll do that instead to win the argument, so I won't bother o/
I actually have a degree in history (as opposed to my degree in awesome in everything else) and wrote my dissertation on Nazi Germany (not economics though), so I don't actually need to look anything up! In terms of actual economic benefit to the people of Germany very little, and even less in a legitimate fashion, was accomplished by the Nazi regime in the long run.

Amusingly enough, considering your post at the top of this page, part of my dissertation was actually written on Aryan physics, a shining example from history that shows us that utter ****tardery knows no bounds and making some contributions to the awesomeness that is physics doesn't preclude you from being the sort of human being best left under a very heavy rock somewhere.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:27   #177
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I actually have a degree in history (as opposed to my degree in awesome in everything else) and wrote my dissertation on Nazi Germany (not economics though), so I don't actually need to look anything up! In terms of actual economic benefit to the people of Germany very little, and even less in a legitimate fashion, was accomplished by the Nazi regime in the long run.

Amusingly enough, considering your post at the top of this page, part of my dissertation was actually written on Aryan physics, a shining example from history that shows us that utter ****tardery knows no bounds and making some contributions to the awesomeness that is physics doesn't preclude you from being the sort of human being best left under a very heavy rock somewhere.
You write a dissertation on something, and therefore you're an expert on pretty much everything When I have a PhD in quantum physics I won't consider myself an expert in anything - let alone if I just had a bachelors? masters? degree in history, with a chapter on aryan physics!!!! You go girl!!

Don't build yourself up too much man. You're a good forums poster, you're seemingly decent at poker, but so far you've made 0 contributions to the world apart from an online text based game (and maybe other games).
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:28   #178
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Re: The BNP

What in the hell is wrong with you man? I've rarely an encountered a more hate-filled long-time internet user in the <however many years I've been using the internet>. I mean jesus ****ing christ what exactly happened to you.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:31   #179
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Re: The BNP

Sorry dude, when someone implies I am the sort of human being best left under a very heavy rock somewhere, I go a little on the offensive/defensive. I know, call me crazy!
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:35   #180
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Re: The BNP

I wasn't aware you were even alive in the 1930s, never mind a member of the Aryan physics movement
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:38   #181
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I don't know what you mean here. You used fallacious reasoning (1), I pointed it out (2). We're not "getting" anywhere because of (1). Don't do it in future?
I'm just saying, instinct is instinct, it can't be avoided. The will to survive is greater than any other. You're saying my argument is a fallacy because I cannot presume that because our instincts are natural they are good. I'm not necessarily saying they're good, I'm just stating the cold hard facts, if someone invaded your home at night and threatened your life you'd defend yourself before taking into account any ethical or moral implications.

The original statement I made wasn't even aimed at you. IIRC it was towards All Systems Go, who believes that war is wrong and we shouldn't have armies. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moralistic_fallacy)

Quote:
I find it pretty scary the message you managed to get from V for Vendetta was "strong governments are awesome".
I'm not "getting" anything, if it was subliminal I wouldn't consciously know I've picked up on it. My only point was the film depicts a weakened, democracy - America and a strong, dictatorial UK. The film is essentially about freedom, at the end it leaves you thinking "Sure, now they're free but are they actually better off?"- in fact I'm going to leave it there because I could discuss this film all day and I really don't have the time.

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What on earth do you mean by "work"? Nazi Germany was a shithole that nobody sane would want to live in unless you planned on being a member of the Nazi party.
Newt covered this.

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I was just pointing it out actually, no ulterior motives!
I apologise.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:46   #182
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by J
I wasn't aware you were even alive in the 1930s, never mind a member of the Aryan physics movement
I say I've made a contribution to physics (man I expected to get flamed for that post for a bit of fun, didnt happen) - you point out my post and then say that making contributions to physics (mine are effectively all my tutor's - I was lucky he gave me something awesome to work on) "doesn't preclude you from being the sort of human being best left under a very heavy rock somewhere." - implying that aryan physicists are such people, and also that I am.

If I am incredibly stupid and that wasn't in any way shape or form indirectly aimed at me, I'm sorry. I don't think you can blame me for taking that impression from your post though.

And I don't know what the aryan physics movement is - I know I'm an ~aryan and a physcist though

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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:49   #183
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Zeyi View Post
I'm just saying, instinct is instinct, it can't be avoided. The will to survive is greater than any other. You're saying my argument is a fallacy because I cannot presume that because our instincts are natural they are good. I'm not necessarily saying they're good, I'm just stating the cold hard facts, if someone invaded your home at night and threatened your life you'd defend yourself before taking into account any ethical or moral implications.
But this isn't a situation where instinct inevitably dominates. We have time to reflect. That's what we're doing right now!

Quote:
At the end of the day we are animals and our natural instincts lead us to racism
Even if they do, that's no reason to follow them. Opening a sentence with a phrase like "at the end of the day" implies there's some sort of irresistible force that's pointless resisting in play. Let's shift tack though. Do you think it is pointless not trying to be racist? Do you think the only solution is the BNP? What do you think a realistic solution actually is?


Quote:
The film is essentially about freedom, at the end it leaves you thinking "Sure, now they're free but are they actually better off?"
Honest to god I cannot believe this is what that film left you thinking when it was over.

Quote:
Newt covered this.
If by covered you mean wasn't wrong and then had an e-fit at me then yeah I think we're sorted there.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 12:52   #184
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
I say I've made a contribution to physics (man I expected to get flamed for that post for a bit of fun, didnt happen) - you point out my post and then say that making contributions to physics (mine are effectively all my tutor's - I was lucky he gave me something awesome to work on) "doesn't preclude you from being the sort of human being best left under a very heavy rock somewhere." - implying that aryan physicists are such people, and also that I am.

If I am incredibly stupid and that wasn't in any way shape or form indirectly aimed at me, I'm sorry. I don't think you can blame me for taking that impression from your post though.

And I don't know what the aryan physics movement is - I know I'm an ~aryan and a physcist though
It genuinely wasn't aimed at you. This was the Aryan Physics movement. I would say that Aryan Physicists are the sort of people best left under heavy rocks somewhere. I obviously don't mean that aryan physicists are the sort of people best left under heavy rocks somewhere.

You'll have to forgive me but you do seem generally prone to flying off the handle and seemingly getting rather angry over fairly inconsequential things.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 13:05   #185
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Re: The BNP

Haha, I've only just had chance to read your/Newt's subsequent posts.

I'm just saying that when the pressure is on, which it is (economically) - not to the degree I discussed but to an extent people will start turning to extremes. It's not even a matter of me arguing that I'm right, I'm just making an observation, If I was wrong the BNP wouldn't have two seats in Europe.

To your questions, I'm not racist but I do think our immigration system is terrible and would like to see an Australia type system introduced. Britain is overcrowded and some places are being hit by poverty. I just want to see our country flourish, and I think these fence sitting mainstream parties need to tighten up slightly.


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Honest to god I cannot believe this is what that film left you thinking when it was over
I really don't have time to discuss this, I was just picking out a relevant viewpoint that could be taken after the film. There are many more (obviously) and I've discussed and reviewed this film in explicit detail with some of my friends. I wish I had time to go into it, but I really don't if I want to pass this Maths exam tomorrow :crymeariver:

Offtopic: I'm not even massively right wing myself, for instance I'd love to see a UK implementation of the Swedish Pirate party!

I'm going to have to withdraw from the debate (for now) before I wreck my exam chances. I suppose it's probably better off since I can't really compete with your PhD/degree carrying intellects. Most forums I use are filled with teenagers whom I can whitewash with my (almost complete) college education, haha. I hope I brought something to the table anyway and wont be forever considered a complete douche

EDIT: I found it moderately humorous me and Newt are both from Lancashire.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 13:12   #186
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
You'll have to forgive me but you do seem generally prone to flying off the handle and seemingly getting rather angry over fairly inconsequential things.
I wasn't angry - I saw what looked like an insult (and a pretty big insult) aimed at me (I still maintain I'm not at fault for assuming you were having a go at me), and I responded with insults (or not insults, more saying you have no right to mock me and my achievements).

Its a good thing I did react like that too! Otherwise I'd secretly be super anti-JBG in all my posts now for no reason, and our e-romance would be over! And yeh I am a bit over emotional, but thats also why anyone that does like me, likes me - keeps life exciting!

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Originally Posted by Z
I'm going to have to withdraw from the debate (for now) before I wreck my exam chances. I suppose it's probably better off since I can't really compete with your PhD/degree carrying intellects. Most forums I use are filled with teenagers whom I can whitewash with my (almost complete) college education, haha. I hope I brought something to the table anyway and wont be forever considered a complete douche
My studies have **** all to do with this topic of conversation - and you've expressed your opinions (same as mine I think) way better than I have..... but yeh JBG being a scholar in this general area does uneven the playing field

Now go **** off and study.

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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 14:30   #187
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Re: The BNP

The Sun have released a new fun game (the link is on the page somewhere)!

Is it okay that the media should effectively be condoning people throwing eggs (and similar things) at democratically elected people? Isn't that just as undemocratic as some would say the BNP party is itself.

But Light's already talked about that.

I am going to readdress something I said in my original post. How the media's over the top hatred of the BNP. What is it actually doing? It's already very well established that the BNP is a racist evil party - everyone knows this. People who agree will already be very anti-BNP, the media's current coverage won't affect them much. However, BNP apologists (and general believers in democracy) will be shaking their heads in disgust at the media's ~undemocratic behaviour - and will make them even more apologetic towards the BNP.

I can't see how what the media, or other politicans & egg throwers, are doing can possibly do anything but increase the BNP's following. The BNP already have 1million voters - like it or not, the party is becoming a major party, with following in most of the country. Start defeating them by discussing policies instead of calling them bad names.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 14:35   #188
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Re: The BNP

Reading 1984 left me thinking..... heh is government torture really that bad? I mean its not like waterboarding is as bad as letting rats eat someones flesh. And the guy seems happy at the end, maybe learning to submit can actually bring peace of mind? I think I read somewhere that Islam preaches submission, they could have a point. Theres some pretty deep stuff here imo, book had a huge impact on me.

Did I mention one of my friends has a degree in English Literature? Not really relevant to the thread though heh, just thought Id mention it

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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 14:46   #189
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Nodrog View Post
Reading 1984 left me thinking..... heh is government torture really that bad? I mean its not like waterboarding is as bad as letting rats eat someones flesh. And the guy seems happy at the end, maybe learning to submit can actually bring peace of mind? I think I read somewhere that Islam preaches submission, they could have a point. Theres some pretty deep stuff here imo, book had a huge impact on me.

Did I mention I haev a PhD in English Literature? Not really relevant to the thread though heh, just thought Id mention it
I read that book a few years back expecting it to be utter shit (I'm not a fan of critically acclaimed stuff - give me Dan Brown any day). But 1984 was awesome, but then again for me all it was is a story. I've never been one for trying to take politcal/economical/whatever views from works of fiction.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 14:52   #190
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Re: The BNP

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Did I mention one of my friends has a degree in English Literature? Not really relevant to the thread though heh, just thought Id mention it
I only brought it up because way back on page one newt said I needed to read up on what racism was and despite such comments being retarded my delicate liberal arts sensibilities were sufficiently offended for me to feel a need to point out my intellectual credentials later on. :justification:
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 14:57   #191
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Re: The BNP

Why were such comments retarded? Has anyone here actually agreed with you that the exact policy you pasted at the time is racist? That doesn't mean we're right ofcourse - it does mean that me,wishmaster,light,nodrog,pommeh,zeyi are all wrong though, and thus think you have the wrong idea of what racism is. I think when more than half the thread posters agrees with me, its hard to just say off-hand that my comment was retarded.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 15:03   #192
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt
You should maybe read up on what racism actually is yourself instead of jumping on the liberalistic media bandwagon.
This assumes a few things. That I haven't read up on what racism is and that there's some sort of liberalistic media bandwagon and I'm jumping on it. All of that is just insulting and really irrelevant to the discussion.

Usually people don't quote posts just to say "I agree with this". Regardless I'm fairly comfortable with using a widely accepted international definition.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 15:03   #193
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Because they mean something to me, and a lot of people. Its all part of being british, as well as many many other things. Stuff like this may not matter to you, but it matters to many. History is what defines a nation, and these all feature throughout our history, and are something that brings national pride to a lot of people.
National pride only serves any useful purpose in the nation state system, creating solidarity with your fellow countrymen at the expense of the opinion of other countries and reason. It doesn't make sense and to have "pride" in an accident of birth is ridiculous.

Quote:
You may wonder how the **** something like that can bring a feeling of national pride - but I might sit here and say how the **** can photons and accoustic waves coming from the tv excite/interest people? Why? HOW? Our brains are weird huh.
What a strange way of avoiding having to explain yourself.

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Are you actually british? If so I bet you want the monarchy to piss off as well?
Nah the monarchy are fine with me, they're probably a net gain if you count tourist money.
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 15:08   #194
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Re: The BNP

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. It doesn't make sense and to have "pride" in an accident of birth is ridiculous.
That's your opinion. Some people think we could just as likely have been born as random animals. Does that mean you shouldn't have "pride" in being a human being? So you should go out with the monkeys in the zoo and start tossing shit about.

Or maybe you think people that believe stuff like that are ****ing idiots. Well, thats what I think of you.

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Originally Posted by J
Usually people don't quote posts just to say "I agree with this". Regardless I'm fairly comfortable with using a widely accepted international definition.
Taking their definitions exactly as you have, I could put forward arguments why every single policy in this country is racist (not just immigration, every single one - or perhaps just most of them).

Reading the definition of quantum mechanics in a dictionary doesn't mean you've read up and mastered quantum mechanics.

edit: Going further with this, QM (the laws which govern the universe) says that there's a finite probability you're actually sat on the moon right at this very moment. The laws behind that are vital to explain how, for example, computers work. Someone reading the dictionary might start going round yelling "I AM ON THE MOON RIGHT NOW!!!" - a valid thing to say from just reading the main results of quantum mechanics somewhere. Its completely wrong though. Similarly, 'racism' is quite complex, and isn't a black and white word (pun intended) - there is a lot of grey area.

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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 15:15   #195
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Re: The BNP

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Taking their definitions exactly as you have, I could put forward arguments why every single policy in this country is racist (not just immigration, every single one - or perhaps just most of them).
Gopherit.

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Reading the definition of quantum mechanics in a dictionary doesn't mean you've read up and mastered quantum mechanics.
Again, this is assuming that this is all I may know on the subject. Why make any sort of insulting such assumption? Why not just deal with my arguments as they are without resorting to trying to elevate your intellectual position by denigrating mine?

Edit: This seems to be how you conduct any sort of argument though. It's a little tiresome talking to someone whose basic assumption underlying every post seems to be "this guy is an idiot who just can't understand me, maybe if I explain myself by talking really slowly and gesturing with my hands he'll get it"/
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 15:21   #196
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Re: The BNP

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Why not just deal with my arguments as they are without resorting to trying to elevate your intellectual position by denigrating mine?
You called my comments retarded I wonder how many times you've belittled people on the forums and called their comments retarded or just plain stupid?

If there's one thing I know about you (and quite possibly it is the only thing, other than you have a degree in history), its that you're pretty obstinant. On everything - at least PA related. If someone disagrees with you, you'll get quite petty about it. That's what I did with you, regrettably. We're like long lost brothers or something <3

edit: I really don't feel intellectually superior over nearly anyone. I am a remarkably stupid person in anything except maths/physics (and even there I'm nothing special at all anymore), so maybe I have the academic version of the little man syndrome, and get over defensive/offensive about it all. And if this is coming mostly from my e-fit at you, I am sorry about that...

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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 15:27   #197
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Re: The BNP

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You called my comments retarded
Quite possibly afterwards. Up until that point I hadn't. Your comment was in response to my reply to wishmaster's post, a post which I'd suggested was slightly tongue in cheek, a suggestion I'd imagine wishmaster might agree with.

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I wonder how many times you've belittled people on the forums and called their comments retarded or just plain stupid?
Quite often. Extremely rarely in response to someone participating in a relatively serious discussion or without being baited first of all.

Quote:
If there's one thing I know about you (and quite possibly it is the only thing, other than you have a degree in history), its that you're pretty obstinant. On everything - at least PA related. If someone disagrees with you, you'll get quite petty about it.
Looks like you really only know one thing about me then <3

Edit: Having read back through my posts I haven't called any of your posts retarded bar that comment which I did just now and therefore doesn't really seem to bear any relevance as to why you started down the personal insult road!
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 15:47   #198
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Re: The BNP

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Quite often. Extremely rarely in response to someone participating in a relatively serious discussion or without being baited first of all.
I disagree there. One example which springs to mind was on AD. Fuzzy was making serious posts, with valid points in one of those big asc-related threads. He wasn't being snide/cruel/etc, but yet your posts coming back at him were.... wow I was so shocked I even opened an MSN window with wishmaster to relieve my shockedness. Okay you weren't belittling him as such, but you were being extremely 'jerkish' in a serious thread.

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Looks like you really only know one thing about me then <3
After another week or so of this thread I'll know you like the back of my hand.

Quote:
Edit: Having read back through my posts I haven't called any of your posts retarded bar that comment which I did just now and therefore doesn't really seem to bear any relevance as to why you started down the personal insult road!
Its good that we're getting our feelings about each other out into the open I accept that my comment was a petty stupid silly insult - not so much based on what had happened in this thread, but my overall impression of your posting at times.

I apologise for the way I phrased myself in a condescending manner with that comment on page 1 (but not the point behind it). I apologise for making quite fantastically stupid posts on ~page 2 - I still don't understand how I ended up fighting for the position I had. I apologise for my e-fit at you - though I mean, I still don't see why you would mention what you did unless it was to indirectly insult me. I don't get it ... but you wouldn't lie about it, so I totally misinterpreted your post -> my reply was out of order.

I think we're either at the stage now where we kiss and make up, or secretly hate each other, or take it to pm. Though this is potentially more interesting than discussing the BNP, maybe not for everyone reading though
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 15:58   #199
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Re: The BNP

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I disagree there. One example which springs to mind was on AD. Fuzzy was making serious posts, with valid points in one of those big asc-related threads. He wasn't being snide/cruel/etc, but yet your posts coming back at him were.... wow I was so shocked I even opened an MSN window with wishmaster to relieve my shockedness. Okay you weren't belittling him as such, but you were being extremely 'jerkish' in a serious thread.
I don't count people I consider myself friends with. Although I'm not too sure if fuzzy is e-friends with me anymore!

And you are right, it is good! That said this thread is very much in danger of going off topic now so!
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Unread 10 Jun 2009, 16:05   #200
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Re: The BNP

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I doubt in this day and age (ie with media coverage of everything and the internet) that Britain could ever turn into a fascism - unless something drastic like a nuclear world war triggers something.
My main point was that I was wondering how the BNP hoped to achieve it, not that they would make a Britstapo and break my legs. (although maybe they would)


Another little gem was that all NHS and MoD contracts would go to companies in the North East. I sure hope they told everyone who lives in the rest of Britain!
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