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14 Nov 2010, 05:14
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Apprime & Imperia
I don't usually read or post on alliance discussions, but I want to express how surprised I am how cowardly certain alliances are.
Apprime and Imperia are now double teaming the smaller alliances, and that shows to me how much of a coward those two alliances really are.
It's actually pathetic.
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14 Nov 2010, 08:14
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#2
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Retired
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hanging down to the left
Posts: 133
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
LOL?
is this post even necessary?? having the 3/4/5 ranked alliances napped. and 2nd napped to 1st after that.
so who do u propose apprime hit??? tell me please.....
although the fact that u say apprime is hitting ND is funny also.... please show us proof of apprime hitting Nd fort
basically stop nagging, and spreading retardness.. tnxs
__________________
Apprime supreme hc, above MaxMilliaN
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14 Nov 2010, 11:49
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#3
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by VampiriA
although the fact that u say apprime is hitting ND is funny also.... please show us proof of apprime hitting Nd fort
basically stop nagging, and spreading retardness.. tnxs
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can you show us proof of him actually saying apprime are hitting ND ,
i dont normally neg rep people but in your case im going to make an exception
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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14 Nov 2010, 11:12
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 161
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Apprime clearly wants to win.
Imperia clearly doesn't want to win.
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14 Nov 2010, 11:54
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#5
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
Apprime and Imperia are now double teaming the smaller alliances, and that shows to me how much of a coward those two alliances really are.
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As you contemplate this it would be worth remembering that this position might have been avoided had CT and ND been willing to suspend their feud with Imperia.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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14 Nov 2010, 14:09
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#6
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Awesome
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 291
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
I'm touching myself baby!
__________________
Apprime PR - taking away ur problems since 2008
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15 Nov 2010, 10:57
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#7
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Has to be said
Due to CT, Imp and ND HC being absolute Donkeys at Political maneuvers.
You have gifted apprime the win and also roiding rights to your alliance top planets.
Asc HC, just too late pre pt 100 would have been alot easier than now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
I don't believe that before I see it.
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Maybe thats what they (imp HC) need to learn.
I suspect Imp will be a 1 round wonder so no long term gain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Napping them is really the only way for us to guarantee they won't secure the top X planets for themselves.
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I had expected better from you than to think that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
I'm touching myself baby!
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W@nk€r (Confirmation of)
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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15 Nov 2010, 11:02
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#8
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
Asc HC, just too late pre pt 100 would have been alot easier than now.
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what does that mean? by going to war with App in week 2 rather than week 1 we were too late? Simple fact App is better than us, possibly a lot better than us, when we fought is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
Maybe thats what they (imp HC) need to learn.
I suspect Imp will be a 1 round wonder so no long term gain.
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They have said they will go on. On the other hand if they wanted too they would have been well advised not to earn the enmity of three of the four long term top tier alliances.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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15 Nov 2010, 11:21
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#9
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
what does that mean? by going to war with App in week 2 rather than week 1 we were too late? Simple fact App is better than us, possibly a lot better than us, when we fought is irrelevant.
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Im not arguing that apprime are better than asc this round...
What I am saying is it would have been easier to have taken apprime out with support from other alliances (which should have been easy in theory if those alliances had any sense of self preservation/Not being donkeys and especially no "santacruz's flak ally" playing aswell) earlier in the round than now
Im not faulting Asc actions (in general) just their timing off the actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
They have said they will go on. On the other hand if they wanted too they would have been well advised not to earn the enmity of three of the four long term top tier alliances.
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I wouldn't rule out Imp losing a good few members between now and the start of next round.
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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14 Nov 2010, 14:09
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#10
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Gabba gabba hey hey
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 212
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
As you contemplate this it would be worth remembering that this position might have been avoided had CT and ND been willing to suspend their feud with Imperia.
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ND were hitting app when imp broke up with asc, CT could probbly have been persuaded to cease the attacks on imp to hit app if imp hadn't been trying to poach ct guys
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14 Nov 2010, 18:15
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#11
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h3ll's angels
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 273
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
As you contemplate this it would be worth remembering that this position might have been avoided had CT and ND been willing to suspend their feud with Imperia.
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How much has ND actually launched on Imperia?
__________________
[18:04] * h3ll has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
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14 Nov 2010, 19:25
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#12
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra
How much has ND actually launched on Imperia?
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That is not the point at all, U may have not launched at all!
The point is that Imperia suspended their nap with Asc and drifted into Apps camp thus removing the prospect of a gangbang on app because we could not get guarantees from ND and CT not to hit them.
(I will carefully ignore the fact that we finished the process by then launching on Imp)
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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14 Nov 2010, 20:31
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Londo's been making a whole lot of sense lately.
I for one supported a "gangbang" of Apprime earlier, for the reasons lokken (iirc) has given in the other thread - if we'd side with Apprime there wouldn't be much of a round after a week or two. I was a tad bit disappointed when we dropped the nap with Asc, then again with CT's reluctance (or just plain refusal) to drop their hostilities towards us, for whatever reason, I can't say I blame our HC.
Then, Asc started attacking us, when up until then it was still very likely we'd cooperate vs Apprime, even if it'd take us a few days extra to get things going the way we wanted 'em to.
After that there really was zero incentive for us NOT to take up on Apprime's offer (I assume, at least, that it was coming from them) to stay neutral towards each other until the round ends. Napping them is really the only way for us to guarantee they won't secure the top X planets for themselves.
Long story short, Imperia didn't see a way to achieve #1, so we did the next best thing, #2.
Ambitious? No.
Cowardly? Maybe.
Smart? Guess we'll never know.
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14 Nov 2010, 21:40
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#14
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
few days extra
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You misspelt the word 'epochs' there fyi.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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15 Nov 2010, 00:46
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#15
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Then, Asc started attacking us, when up until then it was still very likely we'd cooperate vs Apprime, even if it'd take us a few days extra to get things going the way we wanted 'em to.
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Your HC's complete unreasonableness has clearly precipitated this course of events. Their efffective termination of the nap for pretty much no reason was a clear statement of intent that they no longer wished to work with Ascendancy. Given the consequentially dire possibility of Apprime being contained, we were left no option to turn our guns on you. We want to play planetarion - that doesn't mean winning necessarily but what it does mean is not having a dead game for 500 ticks: Imperia are clearly to blame for this.
I mean your post reads as if it's some painful half apology anyway, so why keep up the pretense?
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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15 Nov 2010, 09:50
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Napping them is really the only way for us to guarantee they won't secure the top X planets for themselves.
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I don't believe that before I see it.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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14 Nov 2010, 14:11
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 42
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
I don't usually read or post on alliance discussions, but I want to express how surprised I am how cowardly certain alliances are.
Apprime and Imperia are now double teaming the smaller alliances, and that shows to me how much of a coward those two alliances really are.
It's actually pathetic.
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Im sorry ND. Its all because we had some wrong intel, which caused us to hit ND by accident!
__________________
Apprime HC
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14 Nov 2010, 14:13
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#18
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Retired
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hanging down to the left
Posts: 133
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
can you show us proof of him actually saying apprime are hitting ND ,
i dont normally neg rep people but in your case im going to make an exception
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sure..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
Apprime and Imperia are now double teaming the smaller alliances, and that shows to me how much of a coward those two alliances really are.
It's actually pathetic.
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Seeing that he is ND, and and that ND are down approx 9% on roids today.. think its obvious.. he meant ND by "smaller alliances"
__________________
Apprime supreme hc, above MaxMilliaN
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14 Nov 2010, 15:49
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by VampiriA
sure..
Seeing that he is ND, and and that ND are down approx 9% on roids today.. think its obvious.. he meant ND by "smaller alliances"
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Heh, and that's proof how?
I didn't specifiy an alliance, I said, and I quote, "smaller alliances."
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14 Nov 2010, 15:52
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#20
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Retired
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hanging down to the left
Posts: 133
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
Heh, and that's proof how?
I didn't specifiy an alliance, I said, and I quote, "smaller alliances."
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ok then... i'll play along.
please tell us who are the small alliances
__________________
Apprime supreme hc, above MaxMilliaN
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14 Nov 2010, 15:55
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#21
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Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
Heh, and that's proof how?
I didn't specifiy an alliance, I said, and I quote, "smaller alliances."
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We bashed patsa
__________________
If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
BANANA ALLIANCE!!
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14 Nov 2010, 16:46
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#22
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Gabba gabba hey hey
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 212
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterrrr
We bashed patsa
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zomg so did we!
cept we sucked and Theamion failed to land anything on poco
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14 Nov 2010, 16:14
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#23
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Guest
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Correct me if im wrong but i thought all alliance's were smalller than apprime?
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14 Nov 2010, 16:38
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Big PA alliances bully the rest of the universe, it's hardly a surprise, they do the same at PA team level. That's why you won't see any change. PA IS about bashing its way to the top, play or quit.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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15 Nov 2010, 00:14
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#25
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Drunken Boozer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
****ing remove allyrankings while game is ticking, just show the final rankings to see what ally did well.
But then we do not have all those posts to read..........
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!
! [ToT]-KC !
Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
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15 Nov 2010, 10:18
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#26
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Gabba gabba hey hey
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 212
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
It was pretty obvious with imp terminating the nap in that way and with app already thumping pretty hard on our door that it wouldn't be long before impprime joined apprime, 1 week later and what do we see, imp and app co-ordinated attacks on asc, oh the shock.
With firebird in charge and titos being a big girly girl, did we honestly see this round going any different?
Last edited by Gabriel; 15 Nov 2010 at 10:24.
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15 Nov 2010, 10:47
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#27
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So what?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 606
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Londo and Patrikc are both right to a certain degree, our turning on Imp was a pretty petty act that followed what we felt was them taking the worst possible option. In reality though, with us having been under attack from Apprime for the previous two weeks, Imperia backing out meant there was very little left for us to play for. Petty acts and a few small pockets of resistance were pretty much all we had left.
__________________
Legion
[RaH] [Mercenaries]
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15 Nov 2010, 19:17
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#28
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Bragpack™
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 815
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev
Londo and Patrikc are both right to a certain degree, our turning on Imp was a pretty petty act that followed what we felt was them taking the worst possible option. In reality though, with us having been under attack from Apprime for the previous two weeks, Imperia backing out meant there was very little left for us to play for. Petty acts and a few small pockets of resistance were pretty much all we had left.
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MY DECLARATION OF WAR WAS NOT PETTY! (unlike your mum!!!)
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15 Nov 2010, 11:28
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#29
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Fair-weather friends.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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15 Nov 2010, 15:24
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#30
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Save energy: Be apathetic
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
I kind of doubt that. My personal opinion is that Imperia dropped the nap with Ascendancy and napped Apprime specifically to satisfy the rank whores.
Fortunetly, there are signs that they (the rank whores) lose value after being escorted. Hi, Chimpie.
__________________
Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
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15 Nov 2010, 16:20
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#31
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoshay
I kind of doubt that. My personal opinion is that Imperia dropped the nap with Ascendancy and napped Apprime specifically to satisfy the rank whores.
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i have seen 5 out of the top 6 imperia planets say they didn't agree with the politics, so i doubt it was to their satisfaction
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoshay
Fortunetly, there are signs that they (the rank whores) lose value after being escorted. Hi, Chimpie.
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I believe it was Chimpie's goal to get HaSu to #1 with his action, which at that time succeeded.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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15 Nov 2010, 17:43
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#32
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Save energy: Be apathetic
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
I believe it was Chimpie's goal to get HaSu to #1 with his action, which at that time succeeded.
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God, you are clueless. Chimpie crashed some 250k on Smasher after being escorted.
__________________
Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
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15 Nov 2010, 21:05
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#33
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoshay
God, you are clueless. Chimpie crashed some 250k on Smasher after being escorted.
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ahh i didn't know this when i replied, but then again i doubt chimpie really cares as he claimed to have no further personal interest in this round after his 'crash' on shazna earlier. I'll withdraw my earlier comment tho, and let him explain for himself if he cares to.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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16 Nov 2010, 22:04
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#34
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Retard0r
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,164
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoshay
God, you are clueless. Chimpie crashed some 250k on Smasher after being escorted.
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The crash on Smasher was an unfortunate series of events The calc was win, but my teamup decided it wasnt and ordered pull and i didnt bother to check again since i believed we were landing. Also, they're not my escorts, they're my regular teamup. One is a tad bigger then me and the other is a tad smaller(both bigger after that crash tho )
__________________
-Chimpie
* We do not exist *
* G-II * NoS * VsN * Ascendancy * Osiris * xVx * Ultores *
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15 Nov 2010, 19:23
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#35
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
i have seen 5 out of the top 6 imperia planets say they didn't agree with the politics, so i doubt it was to their satisfaction
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Many times the rank whores often don't shout about wanting their top planet o so very badly and thank god we napped the alliance most likely to roid us. Many times they manage to fool themselves about how dearly they would have loved a good war but fate just conspired against us.
It's like the people who somehow always manage to find a reason to quit an alliance that isn't doing well while denying it was about preserving their rank and it was just never meant to be.
Some of whom actually make their way back into that same alliance the next round when it looks like the strongest alliance again. Not that I'm naming any names here or anything...
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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15 Nov 2010, 15:46
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#36
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
so, 2 rounds in a row we see a scenario where #2 alliance nap #1 alliance?
thats pretty fking awesome!
I had fun 1 week this round, and that was when I was roiding inactive nubs
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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15 Nov 2010, 21:30
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#37
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Anyhow let's just face the situation from a different perspective. Instead of calling Imperia and Apprime big bad pussies, let's just call Ascendancy soar losers.
If anything happened this round it was yet another huge political defeat for Ascendancy.
At first Ascendancy failed in warring Apprime on their own.
Then Ascendancy failed in backing up their newfound partner after they NAP'd Imperia.
Then Ascendancy failed in building concensus around the universe that it would be in everyones interest to gang up on Apprime.
Then Ascendancy failed in breaking the fairly obvious relation between Apprime and Imperia while they had the chance(be it a slim one).
Then Ascendancy failed in breaking through Imperia's defences hard enough for them to fear Ascendancy, and making them re-evaluate their position.
So now please stop acting like whiny, soar losers. And start reorganising your asses so you won't fail like this again.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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15 Nov 2010, 21:54
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#38
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
So now please stop acting like whiny, soar losers. And start reorganising your asses so you won't fail like this again.
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Hold on. You think coming second isn't failing? Everyone who isn't apprime failed this round. Just because you decided to be someone's bitch instead of getting killed by them doesn't make it any better dude. It just makes you gay.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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15 Nov 2010, 23:52
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#39
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Hold on. You think coming second isn't failing? Everyone who isn't apprime failed this round. Just because you decided to be someone's bitch instead of getting killed by them doesn't make it any better dude. It just makes you gay.
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I never said coming second isn't failing. I'll also never say that Imperia hasn't failed to get best out of the situation they were in. However i see very little Imperia whining on this board, so i suppose the average Imperia member feels otherwise. But it's the Ascendancy troll squad whining all over again. And i can tell you this, the major part of the community has grown sick of the negative additude some Ascendancy members have been displaying on these boards over the years. And while i can understand the frustration Ascendancy members are currently having obviously, i feel it is time for them to look at themself for a change.
Ofc it's all about playing the hand you've been dealt with to your best advantage, and i feel that the hand that was dealt to Imperia (mostly by their own actions) had little chance of resulting in a round win.
So when time came to choose, Imperia had to choose the better of two evils. They could either side with Ascendancy. Which would only result in a second place if Apprime had been defeated with devastating numbers AND they could keep outgrowing Ascendancy (With CT and likely ND hitting them again as soon as Apprime shown signs of imminent defeat). Or side with Apprime, knowing they would get incs from Asc/CT/ND, which they've proven to withstand by now, whilst they could target Asc/CT/ND together. Which would secure them a certain 2nd place.
So basicly Imperia had to chose between fighting Apprime in a gangrape, probably prolonging the effective round by 200-300 ticks, but being very likely to loose their 2nd place. A feeling that was confirmed by Ascendancy attacking ODDR and ToF during the Imp/Asc NAP. or lock-up the round early, and secure their 2nd place.
I won't say i agree with Imperia's decision to side with Apprime, but i can understand why they chose to do so. I personally would have loved to see Imperia pick the side of Asc, and setting up a cooperation which would have led to a longer effective round. Even if that would have resulted in a backstab from Ascendancy in the event of Apprime's defeat.
Personally i feel fighting and losing beholds greater honour than idling to a 'win'.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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16 Nov 2010, 00:35
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#40
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
. I'll also never say that Imperia hasn't failed to get best out of the situation they were in.
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YOU COULD WIN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
. However i see very little Imperia whining on this board, so i suppose the average Imperia member feels otherwise. But it's the Ascendancy troll squad whining all over again.
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Might have something to do with about 3/4 of all posters on the board being asc, your Imps are always silent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
.
Ofc it's all about playing the hand you've been dealt with to your best advantage, and i feel that the hand that was dealt to Imperia (mostly by their own actions) had little chance of resulting in a round win.
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IMP Has as good a chance of winning if we take down app as Asc does!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
. Which would only result in a second place if Apprime had been defeated with devastating numbers AND they could keep outgrowing Ascendancy (With CT and likely ND hitting them again as soon as Apprime shown signs of imminent defeat).
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Really, we are quite far behind, all you have to do is deal with your CT/ND problem, which lets face it, you need to do if you wish to continue as an ally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
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I won't say i agree with Imperia's decision to side with Apprime, but i can understand why they chose to do so.
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All that u just justified (after a fashion) you dont agree with, in which case, you are just one of those non-existant whining Imps!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
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Personally i feel fighting and losing beholds greater honour than idling to a 'win'.
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REALLY, then do something!
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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16 Nov 2010, 00:47
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#41
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
REALLY, then do something!
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I tried, it resulted in my mate (who was the one executing the plan) getting kicked from Imperia, after that i tried to reason with HC again which failed. after that, I took my losses and left Imperia 3 days ago.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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16 Nov 2010, 00:41
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#42
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
I never said coming second isn't failing. I'll also never say that Imperia hasn't failed to get best out of the situation they were in. However i see very little Imperia whining on this board, so i suppose the average Imperia member feels otherwise. But it's the Ascendancy troll squad whining all over again. And i can tell you this, the major part of the community has grown sick of the negative additude some Ascendancy members have been displaying on these boards over the years. And while i can understand the frustration Ascendancy members are currently having obviously, i feel it is time for them to look at themself for a change.
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This is actually a fairly reasonable reply so I'll respond in kind. In general you're going to see a lot of ascendancy talking on these forums. We make up most of the forum using population. This means that if we lose we complain and if we win we brag and if we see something interesting to talk about we talk about it.
Realistically I think most ascendancy members have recognised the problems we (although to be honest there's not much of me in that we anymore) have. We're relatively inactive, undisciplined, pretty apathetic and unwilling to stretch ourselves in almost any sense. These aren't really "intellectual" problems though so discussing them, except in terms of acknowledging they're there (they are) and what impact they have (they mean we suck), is pretty pointless.
Quote:
Ofc it's all about playing the hand you've been dealt with to your best advantage, and i feel that the hand that was dealt to Imperia (mostly by their own actions) had little chance of resulting in a round win.
So when time came to choose, Imperia had to choose the better of two evils. They could either side with Ascendancy. Which would only result in a second place if Apprime had been defeated with devastating numbers AND they could keep outgrowing Ascendancy (With CT and likely ND hitting them again as soon as Apprime shown signs of imminent defeat). Or side with Apprime, knowing they would get incs from Asc/CT/ND, which they've proven to withstand by now, whilst they could target Asc/CT/ND together. Which would secure them a certain 2nd place.
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There are a lot of problems with your political analysis here. I don't think this is anything unique or due to any ignorance on your behalf though. Partly this is due to the way people approach pa, whereby the important thing really is the ranks you end up with as opposed to the enjoyment they're supposed to symbolise. I'm really not calling anyone an evil rank whore here or anything, it's just natural to view the results as more important than the performance because, well, that's what the world tells us pretty much all the time.
That said mostly it's just a lack of imagination, mainly because of a completely normal psychological flaw people have. Everyone likes a good story. I mean look at what would have had to happen. We work together to defeat Apprime. This is hardly likely to be something that's all over inside a couple of days. That leaves plenty of time for changes in people's political outlooks on the round. In fact those are almost guaranteed. By working with other people you have the opportunity to alter their opinion of you, positively or negatively, and by putting in actual effort into repairing the damage your alliance's image took from the get-go you could have significantly improved your position in time to mount a genuine challenge for #1.
Of course this assumes that you're actually interested in winning the round. No offence but the last sentence in what I just quoted there could best be summed up as "our preferred option was avoiding incs and working with the #1 alliance to secure ourselves a #2 spot".
Quote:
So basicly Imperia had to chose between fighting Apprime in a gangrape, probably prolonging the effective round by 200-300 ticks, but being very likely to loose their 2nd place.
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As i've said before, not really. In reality most rounds of pa, which haven't been effectively over by tick 500, haven't been easy to predict at all in the sense of someone actually accurately describing the way political developments would pan out. Again I understand that most people only look back at what happened and think "well, that was obvious" but it's really not the case.
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A feeling that was confirmed by Ascendancy attacking ODDR and ToF during the Imp/Asc NAP. or lock-up the round early, and secure their 2nd place.
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Please stop referring to 2nd place as if its any more worthwhile than 42nd
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I won't say i agree with Imperia's decision to side with Apprime, but i can understand why they chose to do so. I personally would have loved to see Imperia pick the side of Asc, and setting up a cooperation which would have led to a longer effective round. Even if that would have resulted in a backstab from Ascendancy in the event of Apprime's defeat.
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I really don't think a backstab in the sense of us actually breaking a political agreement was a likely outcome. Obviously if we had a nap with an expiry time and blah blah etc that's a wholly different state of affairs.
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Personally i feel fighting and losing beholds greater honour than idling to a 'win'.
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I know you used inverted commas but really what imperia is doing right now cannot be described in any sense as 'winning'.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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16 Nov 2010, 01:11
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#43
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Please stop referring to 2nd place as if its any more worthwhile than 42nd
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If 2nd place is more worthwhile than 42nd all depends on your goals as either an alliance or player. While for Ascendancy all that seems to matter is keeping the round 'interesting' for as long, the philosofy of Imperia seems to be completely different.
The reason i marked 'interesting' in the above alinea is because the word has a different meaning for every single member. I assume for Ascendancy it means staying in the race for the top ranks, be it Alliance, Galaxy or Planetranks. While for my former alliance Vengeance it involved questions like, can we finish above our 'rival' alliance and can we still steal roids from the top alliance/players.
For instance, last round i had my best moment far after the politics of the round had settled and i managed to steal roids from an alliance by using advanced tactics. I try to pursue such personal goals each rounds which keeps things interesting for me.
As far as Imperia is concerned i can only derive their philosofy in this game from their actions. Their actions so far have shown they are after an alliance rank that is as high as 'being passive' can earn them. Beside the fact that their HC clearly have their own personal goals, which for Titos seems to be 'finishing above CT' (he wants to teach his former HC's a lesson i presume), and for Firebird it either seems to be assuring a win for at least one alliance he likes(this is a personal assumption), or preventing a gangrape or blockwar (as he has tried to make clear when i was still there).
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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15 Nov 2010, 21:56
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#44
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
.....let's just call Ascendancy soar losers.
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We soar! up up and away!
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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15 Nov 2010, 21:46
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#45
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Personally, I think we failed this round because we suck on a consistent basis. We've only been saying that we're not that strong any more for 5 rounds now, apparently that hasn't quite sunk in yet!
Politics certainly didn't help though, I'll grant you that.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 15 Nov 2010 at 21:51.
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16 Nov 2010, 00:07
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#46
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Personally, I think we failed this round because we suck on a consistent basis. We've only been saying that we're not that strong any more for 5 rounds now, apparently that hasn't quite sunk in yet!
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I never got into the reasons of Ascendancy's failure, i'll take your word for the situation within Ascendancy as i have no knowledge of that.
[strike]All i did was saying[/strike] All i meant to point out was, that maybe Ascendancy should stop the bullshit forum trolling, and concentrate on getting that win that they claim every alliance should be after so badly.
I'll grant Ascendancy the price of best alliance propaganda again tho... yet that is very little of a surprise as you've been winning that ever since the first round you played.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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15 Nov 2010, 22:29
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#47
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
HCs should stop playing for 2nd places... Problem is theres too much bad blood ( idiots in command ) certain places, so its hard to get things done.
I know I failed miserably in r30 with Lolmen or whatever you wanna call it, but atleast I always TRIED to go for #1 as long as that was possible :/
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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15 Nov 2010, 22:44
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#48
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I failed miserably
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Par for the course, Wishy. <3
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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15 Nov 2010, 23:16
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#49
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
ye I know. yet r30 was far more entertaining ( for most ) than what we have seen recently...
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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16 Nov 2010, 00:21
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#50
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MööööH r0x0r0r
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Austria - near Vienna
Posts: 60
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Re: Apprime & Imperia
next round i wait with paying for my account until i know if my ally wants to actually become #1, or do something other useful, ..
i'm probably having more fun in ruining then not even trying to become the #1 ally.
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COLLECTOR OF TEARS
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