interesting reading ( can't come up with title )

[-=*PlaYetZ*=-]

some time since i posted at this forum , therefor i will bother you with some boring facts and stuff.

When i read the thread from k03n it made me think about the chances of a person to join and become part of the pa community.
From what i've seen in this so called community , i can't really say we are a "community" as how it should be defined.
This community is splitted up in several communities , for example , the alliance communities.

Within alliances / battlegroups people know each other well from either real life or because they played with each other for some rounds now.
Ofcourse there are the normal "getting to know each other places or irc rooms" and so on , with no ties towards alliances or real life.

In the history of planetarion , many alliances showed up and dissapeared .. but when i look at this fact , that isn't really true.
The core of a dead alliance always ressurrects in some new thingie or project and become an new alliance. Eventually you got the same "dead" alliance
in it's new coat. Maybe some difference in the command chain and new members , but the core remains together.

This happened to lots of alliances in the past rounds of planetarion. For example lithyn .. lithyn died and became serpientia ( or whatever , i wasnt playing
last 2/3 rounds ) , then they became WP / dragons etc etc. Fury died and all of a sudden eclipse rises with almost the same core fury had.
I could go on for some lines , but you can catch my drift.

My point is , after you've been part of an alliance's community , you will get dragged into it untill the day planetarion dies ( or some other odd reason ).
It's some kind of "merry go round" and you can't get out. why?
Afraid of meeting new people or become part of some other alliance ? or is it just because you don't want to leave your friends etc etc , name it.

im stoned

So yes , it's hard for a new player to search "his" kind of community. Like people said in the other thread , IPC , F-crew etc etc offers place for
new players to join in and be part of their community and learn the game , instead of trying to join a ****ed up leet0r community with brain damaged
"hi im playing 10 rounds planetarion" sicko's.
I think alliances like IPC and the rest should earn more respect and credits for doing so , instead of the "top" alliances who hardly gives new people
a chance to play the game.

tbh , my brain is damaged already , but i was just making a point here ... aslong it's still there :s

well , time for another joint

[Tomkat]

A big aspect of the game is in it's social aspect though.
If I wanted to play in another alliance, I'd try and move there. I like playing with friends in Eclipse, because I like to think we all get on well and it's a nice community.

I'm proud of being Eclipse as well. Perhaps if I didn't like the alliance I was in, I'd consider moving.

It is more likely that an alliance would split off into smaller subgroups, and then those subgroups may mingle with subgroups from other alliances and form a new one.

There is also the "vouch" factor. All the larger alliances require vouching from members. It is a lot easier to get a vouch from a bunch of people you've played the last 4 rounds with, than some new people in another alliance that you don't know very well.

[AndroX]

yer so damn right about this mate.

Tho Ive seen some alliances , like LOST for example that always stood open for new players or n00bs as most like to call them.

Its also these kind of alliances that brought the greater players forward. Whom are now in some bigshot alliance as you stated.

And thank god Ive seen LOST is getting on it again with this free round. More "noobs" play this round because its free, and this means perhaps that there are still signing up people that can be some big shot in an bog shot alliance someday, just like u, me or anyone else. So ya!! I agree with you on the most parts, just not too sure about people not getting in somewhere. ;-)


Have a nice round folks,

I know we as Vision will and have

[-=*PlaYetZ*=-]

your right aswell tomkat , and by this thread im not saying people should join other alliances instantly , but im just wondering if some people don't need something new ... a new challenge instead of sticking to ... whatever your sticking to for several rounds already.

And about the vouch fact , ofcourse alliances use vouches , and im not against that because of the safety etc. but it just closes down the "playing ground" of newcomers.

[Kjeldoran]

it's true, any decent and top alliance (or so they like to call themselves) won't give any chance to a new player. The vouching system is the main obstruction when you want to join a decent alliance. For pple to vouch for you (and thus know you) you must have played atleast a few rounds etc.

I for one am guily of these policies aswell (FAnG r7) and so are all the HC's of any top alliance. But that won't change cause letting in newer players also affects the status of a top alliance and that's what it's mostly all about.

rgds Kj

[LEFF|pm]

PLAYETZ !!!

Get ur ass on irc fs :]

[hAl]

It became worse when the 'elite' alliance started to ask voucher to get into jr wings even effectivly creating a secondary alliance in stead of a jr alliance cause there was never any jr to be found in it anymore.

hAl

[SpazMonster]

Between rounds 5-8 I floated around with the people i'd always known and always played with. In round 9 I decided to make a break (oddly enough for in-game political reasons) and moved on to an alliance where very few (if any) knew me very well at all. I was given a chance and it was great fun getting to know so many other people. Even more fun was that feeling of accomplishment in a group of people you hardly knew is so much greater than with the crowd you 'grew up' with. You're not just hopping around and getting positions because people know you, but you have to forge a new reputation of sorts. It has definately been one of my best pa experiences.

[Shakky]

Originally posted by LEFF|pm
PLAYETZ !!!

Get ur ass on irc fs :]

INDEED

SEXEH SEXEH SEXEH I MISSED U

it is true all u say :S

it's called big boy with big egos.

beside, I do respect alliances like IPC, I've often thought of starting new alliances for lesser elites peoples, but would never get sufficient supports(or energy) for it.

[Zeus]

-=*PlaYetZ*=- you should be stoned more often m8ty What you say is sadly an infection to the whole pa community.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Zeus
-=*PlaYetZ*=- you should be stoned more often m8ty What you say is sadly an infection to the whole pa community.

You are forgetting one simple fact. There havent been a significant number of new players in this game for a LONG time. That is reasons 1-20 that the community isnt designed to handle them. Back in the day there was sa thriving underlevel in PA with newbie alliances everywhere, and then a level on top of semi pro alliances, and then there were med alliances, and then upper level. At no point in the history of the game did the top tier actively recruit newbies. If you ended up in a top alliance galaxy, then maybe you could luck out, but in these days rediculous alliance grudges that becomes impossible.

Planeterion gave up on having a thriving new player pool when it went p2p, and if it miraculously finds a new player pool again for round 10, then structures will develop for them to play. But dont expect the community to organize magically into accomidating lots of new players, before there are any significant amounts of new players.

[Gerbie]

I see alliances that adapt and those that don't. It's hard to say which is best. But it will also depend on the kind of alliance.

I see plenty of 'noob alliances' forming. They can be very successfull with a good HC. Some of them already formed a really decent alliance in a very short time.
IPC and TFD are thriving because of the current situation. We have a major memberbase increase as well as other alliances that opened up. We don't even want the big alliances to start recruiting newbie's.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by K-W
You are forgetting one simple fact. There havent been a significant number of new players in this game for a LONG time. That is reasons 1-20 that the community isnt designed to handle them. Back in the day there was sa thriving underlevel in PA with newbie alliances everywhere, and then a level on top of semi pro alliances, and then there were med alliances, and then upper level. At no point in the history of the game did the top tier actively recruit newbies. If you ended up in a top alliance galaxy, then maybe you could luck out, but in these days rediculous alliance grudges that becomes impossible.

Planeterion gave up on having a thriving new player pool when it went p2p, and if it miraculously finds a new player pool again for round 10, then structures will develop for them to play. But dont expect the community to organize magically into accomidating lots of new players, before there are any significant amounts of new players.

true, though I think this thread was more about the fact that the community probably shows absolutely no respect towards those alliances that aren't that competitive as the top ones (by choice).
I mean, howmany new players have been visiting these boards lately? and if they do, more then 50 pple reply to make sure he knows he's just a noob ...

Most also laugh with those lesser competitive alliances like they are worth less and all that.

Or maybe I missread this thread (nothing new) and then you can completely ignore this and proceed as you were.

rgds Kj

[K-W]

I dont disagree Kj, but I think its important to remember that this game was always like that. I played my first round in an alliance that could never exist today for several reasons, but is, I think the kind of alliance that made being a low level player fun and worth doing. And im sure we were looked down on by the elite alliances. Thats only natural and it didnt make a difference. That attidude is not what keeps new players from enjoying themselves. THere were ass holes in galaxies then, just like now, as well friendly people who took you under their wing.

Other than the sheer numbers, the big problem and this has already been brought up is that back then even the elite players were relatively new, and still figuring things out. We cant recreate that. Not unless all the top alliances disbanded, we went in random and people started from cluster alliances again. But that of course is impossible.

So we need to find new solutions, im just (in a particularly distratcted manner today) saying that like most problems the answer lies not in blaming players or trying to convince people to act differently, but focusing on the things in the game that cause those situations to arise.

[Zeus]

Originally posted by K-W
I dont disagree Kj, but I think its important to remember that this game was always like that. I played my first round in an alliance that could never exist today for several reasons, but is, I think the kind of alliance that made being a low level player fun and worth doing. And im sure we were looked down on by the elite alliances. Thats only natural and it didnt make a difference. That attidude is not what keeps new players from enjoying themselves. THere were ass holes in galaxies then, just like now, as well friendly people who took you under their wing.

Other than the sheer numbers, the big problem and this has already been brought up is that back then even the elite players were relatively new, and still figuring things out. We cant recreate that. Not unless all the top alliances disbanded, we went in random and people started from cluster alliances again. But that of course is impossible.

So we need to find new solutions, im just (in a particularly distratcted manner today) saying that like most problems the answer lies not in blaming players or trying to convince people to act differently, but focusing on the things in the game that cause those situations to arise.

Kjeldoran's post is correct in what I was agreeing too. This community WAS and I do stress this, a VERY friendly, welcoming community at one point. All was new, all was excited, everyone wanted to help you....those same people simply see no benifit (to themselves) anymore in helping newbies, appart from the few.

And I certainly am not blaming the community players for anything just stating an observation of fact and I do realise it will not change from the way people treat newbies at the moment unless, once again, like in the beginning, there is something IN IT for the experainced one to help the newbies. This is one of the reasons why alliances MUST be incorperated into the game fully, with incentives to join on, incentives to make one, incentives to build one up, incentives to work togeather......not least limits on those alliances as well, so that as many alliances are created publicly, so u can fight for your Alliance name, creating more wars/targets, the winning alliances can clearly be decided and win by skill, dedication, politics & strategy.....I could fill this page with reasons alliances need incorperated FULLY into the game AND the comabt must be changed to force that as well, but you get the idea.

It may not be a welcomed thing to read, but I do pray, alliances as we know it now will completely change in round 10 and for the best.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Zeus
Kjeldoran's post is correct in what I was agreeing too. This community WAS and I do stress this, a VERY friendly, welcoming community at one point. All was new, all was excited, everyone wanted to help you....those same people simply see no benifit (to themselves) anymore in helping newbies, appart from the few.

And I certainly am not blaming the community players for anything just stating an observation of fact and I do realise it will not change from the way people treat newbies at the moment unless, once again, like in the beginning, there is something IN IT for the experainced one to help the newbies. This is one of the reasons why alliances MUST be incorperated into the game fully, with incentives to join on, incentives to make one, incentives to build one up, incentives to work togeather......not least limits on those alliances as well, so that as many alliances are created publicly, so u can fight for your Alliance name, creating more wars/targets, the winning alliances can clearly be decided and win by skill, dedication, politics & strategy.....I could fill this page with reasons alliances need incorperated FULLY into the game AND the comabt must be changed to force that as well, but you get the idea.

It may not be a welcomed thing to read, but I do pray, alliances as we know it now will completely change in round 10 and for the best.

Sorry Zues, but it was not a matter of a friendly community, thats just silly. IT was a matter of a community structured differently. people dont become more or less friendly. The responsibility lies on the things that changed, ie the structure of the politics in the game and the number of players.

Alliances probably should be incorporated, but your optimism is unfounded really. No one has yet to present a plan that seems it will get a large new amount of players, and even if you love the PA design team, you have to admit that thier past record is hit and miss. So to expect them to make this many changes and for it to come out wonderful is being optimistic. PA's beauty was in its simplicity, now a new PA will have to be much more complex and there will be alot more room for errors to really effect gameplay. I understand you have to be positive, but what PA is doing is very risky.

[Zeus]

Originally posted by K-W
Sorry Zues, but it was not a matter of a friendly community, thats just silly. IT was a matter of a community structured differently. people dont become more or less friendly. The responsibility lies on the things that changed, ie the structure of the politics in the game and the number of players.

Alliances probably should be incorporated, but your optimism is unfounded really. No one has yet to present a plan that seems it will get a large new amount of players, and even if you love the PA design team, you have to admit that thier past record is hit and miss. So to expect them to make this many changes and for it to come out wonderful is being optimistic. PA's beauty was in its simplicity, now a new PA will have to be much more complex and there will be alot more room for errors to really effect gameplay. I understand you have to be positive, but what PA is doing is very risky.

Indeed I am an optimist, perhaps a failing in my mindset, however, although Im not working on PA anymore, I do hope the orginal design of round 10 alliances and the ties to combat are implimented, along with the tools and incentives for everyone to benifit from them, the newbies by learning how to war alongside the pros and the pros knowing its in their best interest to embrass the newbies to survive and be the best.

regards its simplicity, PA was and inovative in the early days. That design however, had many failings, we would all agree. But without evolvement and development things become stagnet, which many would say about PA already, they play no longer individual enjoyment of the game, but for their alliances. Since PA orginal idea was revelotionary and forgive me for saying, fecking enjoying to play, why not take it to the next stage and make it better. That is esencially what they are trying to do.

[Carpeia]

Some struggle to make an elite alliance. Noone want to ruin that by taking in newcomers.

Its like this everywhere.

I wouldnt taken a dude who played CS for the first day into my clan.

Its just like that. But, it would have been friendly to give him a few words of advice etc.

VtS and Fury would never taken in n00bs in their time of power. Neither will any today.

Get SL back again... Their masses was nice for the community.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Zeus
Indeed I am an optimist, perhaps a failing in my mindset, ...

Heh, I'm an optimist aswell

You mentionned that welcoming noobs in our community/galaxy/alliance hardly is rewarding anymore. The sad truth is that apart from meeting someone new and other social activities, a new player does not give your galaxy or alliance anything rewarding.
If he's in your galaxy, you can say bye bye to a possible #1 spot (most of the time atleast) and if he's in your allaince then you'll need to spend time getting him to understand the game and play it like your alliance likes to play it etc.
In the earlier rounds with random galaxies that wasn't a problem because you have like the double amount of newbies then experienced players (r1-3). But now, there aren't that many new players and if there are some then most galaxies rather get rid of them then welcoming them

And it seems all harsch and stuff but that's how it goes most of the time and it'll be hard to change that mentality again unless we get another sudden playerboost.

rgds Kj

[Razorback]

Originally posted by Zeus
Indeed I am an optimist, perhaps a failing in my mindset, however, although Im not working on PA anymore, I do hope the orginal design of round 10 alliances and the ties to combat are implimented, along with the tools and incentives for everyone to benifit from them, the newbies by learning how to war alongside the pros and the pros knowing its in their best interest to embrass the newbies to survive and be the best.

regards its simplicity, PA was and inovative in the early days. That design however, had many failings, we would all agree. But without evolvement and development things become stagnet, which many would say about PA already, they play no longer individual enjoyment of the game, but for their alliances. Since PA orginal idea was revelotionary and forgive me for saying, fecking enjoying to play, why not take it to the next stage and make it better. That is esencially what they are trying to do.

Zeus how long have you been here ?
This words come every round, every round great ideas. I myself was optimistic, new creators new faces and even a new game.

This changed when i realised all the new creators were gone, all the new faces were multies and all the new ideas were balant ripoffs. While the same old crew makes the same old excuses for beeing inept or for not providing a customer service.

It might come as a big surprise to you that 90% of those who gloat how great pa is are those who basically belong to pateam or are affiliated to any "job" around pa, atm it is "uppersociety" gratulating itself for its own beeing. When was the last time the idea forum considered or thought about adding strategys the players thought out ? i agree some are weird bull**** but others sounded very well, even rounds ago. Nothing was done there, instead more lies more features we never received etc etc.

Forgive those of us who are abit pessimistic but the community is down because of one point, p2p. Newbies get no chance because the existing group of organised players is small enough to allow everyone check on everyone. This makes the chance of a new identified planet beeing a spy very high. Something if you play seriously you cant really take as given. Might sound harsh but some ppl in here said it themself, IPC and others DO a great job of advising new ppl, but this comes from the fact they dont try to ACHIEVE anything big ingame, they can say "if its a spy its bad, and?" while other alliances would be totally cnuted if they had another spy or a couple of more spies.

Your hardcoding alliances is pathetic and will result even more in an totally unfair situation in the universe, you can talk and colour it asmuch as you want, facts remain, with a ordered smaller playersize (100-150) almost all alliances who play for the "cup" will stop taking in any half decent guys and just try to get the cream de la cream for their 100 players to get the best performance out of their limited size. This also will cut back on alliances like IPC who cant just let anyone in anymore.
You want to make new alliances you say, you just miss one point, its not YOU who creates them, YOU have no work with it and YOU dont have to run the show. This is still like many ppl claimed on there boards one of the main points to NOT make an alliance.

And the Question if "joe-newbie" in his 2nd round, leads his own alliance, can actually teach ppl enough, i guess you can answer yourself

The playground compared to r2-3 is much different, you have a core of players who is in the scene for <10 rounds and ofc its very hard to join in as a newbie, try to play starcraft today for the first time online or broodwar, they will wipe your arse badly and tell you about "fast lurker" while you try to get the ressources for the den with your 4 probes. Noone exspects to join a game and to be recruited into the topalliance, anyone who does is a fool.

The biggest point why round 10 will fail is the advertising and the general lack of informations. You want to advertise in newspapers "he we got a new game play it, its untested and we dont tell you anything about it but its p2p", i doubt with this sloagen you get anyone or get current players to persuade friends back in.

Like K-W said, alot of ppl play pa because its simple, and because other ppl can help you. Pa wants to change that into a different game concept. In IC and other games like that, alot more is depending on your own understanding of the game and on the own planetmanagment, this is something you can only partly be teached and it takes much longer then just giving someone a couple of tips. This will lead to a new exodus of players from the current playerbase and i wouldnt be to surprised if the incoming new players also get distracted from it.

Zeus on a personal note, i enjoyed your posts from the past, you seemed always to be the person who can admit mistakes and who didnt need to bowl for sympathy on these forums. You told us outright in r8 when things went down and how crap the situation was. Please keep to this, the community needs someone who they can look up to, someone of the "team" or "exteam" who hasnt gambled of his reputation so balantly like many others. So please try to be abit more realistic towards r10 and maybe then some things not only down here but up there in the heads of those spouting this ideas might change and afterall we keep PA alive, something i guess both groups aim on.

P.S. involving alliances maybe into PA would maybe do a much better trick then trying to dictate them to obey.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Razorback
The biggest point why round 10 will fail is the advertising and the general lack of informations. You want to advertise in newspapers "he we got a new game play it, its untested and we dont tell you anything about it but its p2p", i doubt with this sloagen you get anyone or get current players to persuade friends back in.

Focht, one day you'll be a good starcraft player, don't give up and don't let those pple intimidate you when they call you noobs etc

rgds Kj

[Razorback]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
Focht, one day you'll be a good starcraft player, don't give up and don't let those pple intimidate you when they call you noobs etc

rgds Kj

will that be the day when you learn quoting and stop stalking me ?

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Razorback
will that be the day when you learn quoting and stop stalking me ?

well, I wanna be a german (as I'm your favour german imposter) so I have to stalk you and learn how to act like one from the best, not?

rgds Kj

(btw, what's wrong with my quoting?)

[-=*PlaYetZ*=-]

why is it always me who unleashes the best discussions :>

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by -=*PlaYetZ*=-
why is it always me who unleashes the best discussions :>

heh, you just answered your own question in this reply ....

cause you're playetz

rgds Kj